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  1. #1

    Records Sword Hall T2C

    It was doing runs for golden boots in SH T2C pugs. I proposed to do records of time and we obtained 2 min 36 secs.
    This was in a pug with good players, but with more coordination it is possible to go down the time.
    Ah,...I never obtained the golden boots :S

    Lancel Champion Rank13 - BRG R6 - CPT R6 -LM R5
    BA R9 - WL R9 - Warg R8 - Weaver R7 - RVR R7 - Defiler R7
    HISPANEA FTW
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/user/LancelChamp?feature=watch[/url]

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    625
    Quote Originally Posted by LancelChamp View Post
    It was doing runs for golden boots in SH T2C pugs. I proposed to do records of time and we obtained 2 min 36 secs.
    This was in a pug with good players, but with more coordination it is possible to go down the time.
    A bit of a background on this run:

    First, this is not the ideal group set-up, as the Captain (Delwood) is actually a 2nd alt that lacks gear and experience (especially when we ran this). His main is Champion, and equally as capable as myself or Lancel; but when the three of us do this run, we will never have an optimal situation since all three of us have newb Captains.

    Second, it was really late, and people were falling asleep. In fact, in subsequent runs we couldn't even complete the Challenge while trying the "fast" method of spawning all 3 bosses together so ended up doing it the "slow" way for Lancel's boots (which still didn't drop).

    Third, this particular run could have been done much faster except Delwood forgot to use OB on the remaining Troll (that's why he says we could've done it at 2:10 on the Fellowship chat).

    I do think 2 Ardour Champions and 1 Captain would be the ideal class set-up for this though.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    121
    I would ask for a few hints on this fight.

    What is the so called fast boss spawn trick?

    What traits is your captain using? I run this with S&B, going sometimes HoH, sometimes LoM. Kite healing with a cappy works fine. If i stop 1s i'm dead from bats damage, even in full tank gear. Your group does not have stun immunity, so i assume the champs are splitting adds.

    How do you choose targets, as in, Which mobs die first and why? I tend to kill morguls and morrovals first, then start kiting , kill the other adds, kill bats and batwoman boss. After that its a faceroll.

    My safe group is warden, cappy, any; my alternate group is cappy, LM, any. I have never actually considered going 2 champs. Your times are great, IMO, as i finish this in 7-8min.

    A high res video of a 2 min run or a complete breakdown of the instance would help me a lot.

    Update- Me, Salfar and another helping champions tried this group setup of 1 cappy 2 champs. We managed 3m30s-4m times with a single wipe on my fault when i was in last stand cooldown and decided to wait for the next RC instead of going for the morale potion with 4k morale left, only to get stunned. Salfar got the golden boots, im still in search of my shield.

    From what i understood, the mobs you kill first during the start of the fight determine which boss will spawn first. Killing Durcheron or Carcheiron did not made much time saving- Durcheron first was about 10s faster than Cracheiron first. Surprisingly, killing Durcheron first resulted in easier runs as well, just as lotro wiki tutorial hinted. In hands of healing i never once feared a wipe, potted morale, hitted last stand or had to kite bats for more than a few seconds. But run times went up to 4m30s.

    Some people believe that SH T2C is an instance that favors some classes, which is true just like Iobar's Peak. But groups that would have a hard time in IP can complete SH T2C just fine. My 2 cents:

    -Natural kiters like Wardens and Cappys have an easier time here. As a cappy i have even main tanked and main-healed T2C with a DPS LM and a DPS RK. With a cappy+warden group even a burglar finished t2c without hiccups.
    -If you play a squishy induction-based class, some adjustments on your role are in order. In the run with Lm + RK we resorted to target assist+ focus firing one mob at a time, with revealing mark if a boss, telling mark if not. Letting the tank grab enough aggro so you can dps a boss is essential.
    -A ministrel in T2C would have a hard time main healing. Better choose a kiter/tank and go war speech.
    -Its not mentioned, but i do believe that guardians also have a harder time in SH T2C, especially in groups without a cappy, LM or warden.
    Last edited by Nascephor; Jun 22 2013 at 10:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    I would ask for a few hints on this fight.

    What is the so called fast boss spawn trick?
    I am probably the least qualified person to ask regarding instance mechanics, but my understanding is that each type of add is linked to a particular boss. So the "safe" way would be to leave an add from each type of adds to delay the spawning of a boss linked with that add. What we do is to Zerg every add ASAP, so all 3 bosses spawn as fast as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post

    What traits is your captain using? I run this with S&B, going sometimes HoH, sometimes LoM. Kite healing with a cappy works fine. If i stop 1s i'm dead from bats damage, even in full tank gear. Your group does not have stun immunity, so i assume the champs are splitting adds.
    I don't know what Delwood used, but I always slot OB and Shield of Dunedain on my Captain (I have not un-locked HoH, and I don't think Delwood has either). Increasing the duration of Last Stand is also close to a "must."

    There is absolutely no kiting whatsoever: I do not understand why kiting is needed when 2 good Champions can mow adds down at warp speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    How do you choose targets, as in, Which mobs die first and why? I tend to kill morguls and morrovals first, then start kiting , kill the other adds, kill bats and batwoman boss. After that its a faceroll.
    This is our order, too.

    As for bosses, I Challenge the first boss, Lancel/Unsin (Delwood's main Champion) Challenge the second boss, and I Challenge the last boss and always keep him turned away from the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    My safe group is warden, cappy, any; my alternate group is cappy, LM, any. I have never actually considered going 2 champs. Your times are great, IMO, as i finish this in 7-8min.
    2 good Champions and any combination of healers or Warden is a "safe" group; in our case we wiped only because we were trying to do it within 2 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    A high res video of a 2 min run or a complete breakdown of the instance would help me a lot.
    I am having lag issues at the moment, and Fraps makes it much worse. (As a reference, I pretty much never fail to break 4k DPS on the 75 dummy; when I downloaded and tried to use Fraps, I never even got above 4k and often struggled to get to 3500!)

    But maybe Lancel or Delwood can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post

    From what i understood, the mobs you kill first during the start of the fight determine which boss will spawn first.
    Yes, this was precisely the point I was trying to make--and we kill everything very fast and try to get all 3 bosses out at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Some people believe that SH T2C is an instance that favors some classes, which is true just like Iobar's Peak. But groups that would have a hard time in IP can complete SH T2C just fine. My 2 cents:
    I am absolutely befuddled by this claim. IP is by far easier, and it can even be soloed by an LM apparently. How you find it harder to complete--or more strict in terms of group composition requirement--is utterly beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    -Natural kiters like Wardens and Cappys have an easier time here. As a cappy i have even main tanked and main-healed T2C with a DPS LM and a DPS RK. With a cappy+warden group even a burglar finished t2c without hiccups.
    There is no need to kite. And there sure is no need to kite with a Warden. Frankly, if a Warden needs to kite, then the Champions are not doing their job.

    Even this Warden--a 5th alt or so that just leveled to 85 and mostly with 75 gear--didn't need to kite when me and Unsin did it with him:

    http://my.lotro.com/home/character/2...6487425432135/

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    -A ministrel in T2C would have a hard time main healing. Better choose a kiter/tank and go war speech.
    No, Minstrels can heal fine. The same Warden linked above has a main Minstrel that heals this fine: And we've done it countless times with me, Lancel/Unsin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post

    -Its not mentioned, but i do believe that guardians also have a harder time in SH T2C, especially in groups without a cappy, LM or warden.
    That I agree.
    Last edited by Miretocot; Jun 24 2013 at 12:04 PM.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Miretocot View Post
    A bit of a background on this run:

    First, this is not the ideal group set-up, as the Captain (Delwood) is actually a 2nd alt that lacks gear and experience (especially when we ran this). His main is Champion, and equally as capable as myself or Lancel; but when the three of us do this run, we will never have an optimal situation since all three of us have newb Captains.
    I'm not sure a good captain would have made such a difference. Even a 2nd alt, if he knows Captain 101, will have War Cry up 100% of the time here with the non-stop defeat event. I also doubt he would forget to pick a Blade Brother or use Strenght of Will .

    Nice time however. I wish my kinmates would log in more often so that we could give it a try with my champ alt !
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabli View Post
    I'm not sure a good captain would have made such a difference. Even a 2nd alt, if he knows Captain 101, will have War Cry up 100% of the time here with the non-stop defeat event. I also doubt he would forget to pick a Blade Brother or use Strenght of Will .
    Not the case.

    First, we've kinda stopped doing it with my Captain, because I am even newb-er than either Lancel or Unsin's Captain.

    Second, with Unsin's Captain, the issue isn't as much skill as gear/Traits. When we did this, he had just leveled his Captain, and his Virtues were 3-4s, and he had very little survivability. And what foiled these runs were primarily that he kept dying when we tried to do this in 2 minutes (we had at least two tries where we were on a faster pace than the screenshot-ted successful try but Unsin's Captain died). If he had maxed Virtues and better gear, he might have lived. I also don't know if he Traited Last Stand duration, and if he didn't--that would have been critical as well.

    But I think Lancel's "pug with good players" is a bit misleading in at least two respects here for those trying this at home. On the one hand, Lancel and I are almost certainly the top two DPS Champions on the server (and I'd add that he's the best PvE Champion by a considerable margin); on the other hand, Lancel, me, and Unsin have played together a lot of 3-6 mans, even though we are not from the same kin/Alliance. So we kind of do know what each other's tendencies are, etc.
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  7. #7
    While I don't have any screenshots saved from when we were spam running this for burg and champ boots, Shapzzy (Champ), Dalfast (Burg) and I (Laeten, Captain) on Brandywine ran this at least 40-50 times, our usual finish after we had been doing it for a while was somewhere around 2:25, with our absolute best somewhere in the 2:10 to 2:15 range. Basic strategy was:

    Champ aoe at morrovails to start with burg focusing morrovail adds down, as soon as both sets of morrovail are dead, group moves to the morrovail boss with both burg and champ focusing single target, it should die in 20-30 seconds. Our burg also cj'd to interrupt the bat spawn, which slows down his dps a little but made the run pretty much impossible for anyone to die. After the morrovail dies we continue to aoe the mobs, as capt I ran out to any range ones staying away from the group. Move over to fire boss when he spawns and he's just a fast burn. The troll was the only real wildcard in terms of how long the run would take us. If the timing worked out perfectly, he'd spawn right as we finished killing the fire guy or immediately before. About half the time we'd drop combat after the fire guy and have to wait 5ish seconds (burg always complained about losing his dev buff!) before he'd come out. Good burns we'd drop him before he went to the middle even once, bad burns we wouldn't. I didn't even trait oathies, which probably could've bought us a couple seconds, but since the runs were so fast I couldn't reliably have it up for every run anyways, and the shorter CD on VS and extra healing with HoH was more valuable.
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  8. #8
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    Did my fair share of this farming runs back in the day also. avg 5 minutes (or something close to that) with a tank and everything. EDIT: Fastest Swordhalls T2c: To Fellowship (2m 53.3s); (guard, champ, cappy) in the old days.
    Day was when you needed an actual tank to finish any of the clusters runs, but then i heard the damage was bugged and that's why you needed a tank. Who is a tank? (incase you just joined lotro in RoR times.) Tank is a person who can't dps and also does not give you any buffs. So it must be a good friend you take a long just for lolz.

    Noa all SG, WP, SH, and DDG are just speed(r/f)uns. BG feels like a skirm for geard people.
    Last edited by arghh; Jun 27 2013 at 08:57 AM.
    argio r11 burglar | trytofarmme r10 reaver | trytoloveme r10 spider | ikissedafreep r10 blackarrow | roargh r9 warleader | trytocatchme r9 warg |

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellery01 View Post
    While I don't have any screenshots saved from when we were spam running this for burg and champ boots, Shapzzy (Champ), Dalfast (Burg) and I (Laeten, Captain) on Brandywine ran this at least 40-50 times, our usual finish after we had been doing it for a while was somewhere around 2:25, with our absolute best somewhere in the 2:10 to 2:15 range. Basic strategy was:

    Champ aoe at morrovails to start with burg focusing morrovail adds down, as soon as both sets of morrovail are dead, group moves to the morrovail boss with both burg and champ focusing single target, it should die in 20-30 seconds. Our burg also cj'd to interrupt the bat spawn, which slows down his dps a little but made the run pretty much impossible for anyone to die. After the morrovail dies we continue to aoe the mobs, as capt I ran out to any range ones staying away from the group. Move over to fire boss when he spawns and he's just a fast burn. The troll was the only real wildcard in terms of how long the run would take us. If the timing worked out perfectly, he'd spawn right as we finished killing the fire guy or immediately before. About half the time we'd drop combat after the fire guy and have to wait 5ish seconds (burg always complained about losing his dev buff!) before he'd come out. Good burns we'd drop him before he went to the middle even once, bad burns we wouldn't. I didn't even trait oathies, which probably could've bought us a couple seconds, but since the runs were so fast I couldn't reliably have it up for every run anyways, and the shorter CD on VS and extra healing with HoH was more valuable.
    Sorry, I couldn't respond to this earlier simply because I had my account suspended for three days for retaliating against a PvP troll.

    But prima facie, I had a very difficult time believing that a Champion/Burglar/Captain group can be faster than a Champion/Champion/Captain group. If you isolate the different variables only here, then it comes down to Burglar v. a Champion. And in that context, A Burglar cannot AoE effectively and a Burglar's single-target DPS is not greater than that of a Champion, so I don't really see where the time is saved. Now, I am not comparing your runs with my run with Lancel and Delwood, because our time would have been faster than yours likely if Delwood didn't forget to OB earlier. But the problem is that both Lancel and I were Ardour Traited then, and whenever we had a Champion Fervour Trait, the times were noticeably slower.

    But I will reserve my final judgment until I run it with a good Burglar and see for myself after following the strategy you describe.
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