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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    Alternatively you'd see that :

    'combat log'

    But that would not be conclusive enough. Obviously.
    I'm just playing devils advocate here but what is the difference between that log and two people legitimately 1v1 fighting where one of them is just very bad at it?!
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    Runesi lvl 100 Rune Keeper[/CENTER]

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Runesi_EU View Post
    I'm just playing devils advocate here but
    No need to apologize, you have all the qualities required to make it to the Player Council.
    Bravo!
    Therefore I'm very pleased to be of any help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Runesi_EU View Post
    what is the difference between that log and two people legitimately 1v1 fighting where one of them is just very bad at it?!
    ... The ''bad'' player is so bad that he keeps deleting and rerolling... Oh well what's a log and DR...
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    No need to apologize
    It wasn't an apology
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    ... The ''bad'' player is so bad that he keeps deleting and rerolling... Oh well what's a log and DR...
    Your screenshot does not show the character being deleted, thanks for clearing that up and answering my question.
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  4. #54
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    Thanks for setting this up Sapience. It's really nice to get some more information about what's going on at HQ.

  5. #55
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    Did we....

    Ever get an answer to the Paid Services question? Is there any hope of a timeline in the near future?

    I have and 85 guard and a grand master of the guild champ scholar I'd like to undelete; I'd like to know if I should forget them and start over.

    This is the question I hear asked most often on glff -- when are transfers coming back? I can't believe it's not in the top 20.

    Sincerely,
    Lou de Torres

  6. #56
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    I really liked the Q&A's picked by the staff! Very informative.
    The responses still doesn't prevent me of posting unreasonable suggestions on the forums. me gusta

    My concerns about MB are, that it could lead to increased Gold/Item farming an using of makros and bots, which simply is against the TOS and will damage the economy sooner or later. And what about the use of third party software and the loss of immersion when trying to speak with a member of a multiboxing group?
    Last edited by Schinderhannes; Jun 20 2013 at 08:27 AM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q20: What is being done about Multi-boxing/Rank Farming?
    A20: We’ve been having a very active discussion with the Players Council about this recently. One of the challenges here is breaking the issue into its component parts.

    Multi-boxing in-and-of-itself is not inherently bad or against our TOS. The Launcher allows you to run multiple clients and the bug preventing this was recently fixed.

    Rank Farming, which doesn’t require mutli-boxing by the way, is another matter entirely. We’ve run several investigations to figure out how best to address it and so far haven’t been happy with the results. False positives, which could lead to potentially banning Top Tier PvMP players because they accumulate more renown/infamy than most rank farmers over the same period of time, are a major concern.

    It’s a much more complicated matter than simply checking a database and banning those who rapidly accumulate infamy and renown. It’s a complex issue and we continue to discuss and investigate reasonable and appropriate ways to address it. - Sapience
    This is the way Codemasters handeld it: (and i think it is a good way)

    Player A reports that Player B is rank farming.
    a GM logs onto the Server and watches what Player B is doing.
    IF the GM could confirm that the player is rank farming he gets punished
    First time: Warning, Second Time: 1 Day Ban, Third Time: 1 Week Ban, Fourth Time: LT Ban.

    This method requires one thinks: Fast reaction of the GM's.

    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    you've probebly thought of it already. but no matter how you try and find a way to fix rank farming, there will always be those that slip the net anc cheat. maybe it's not about banning them, instead making it much harder to do.

    could you look into updating the rating system instead?

    here's a quick idea I had anyway.

    Rating information
    - Rating goes between 2.00 and 0.00
    - rating directly changes the amount of renown/informy opposing players earn.
    for example, killing a player with 2.00 rating multiplies glory earnt by x2
    killing a player with 0.00 rating always drops no glory
    - each time you are killed your rating goes down 0.10
    - getting a KB on another player increases your rating by 0.05
    - participating in killing another player increases your rating by -0.01
    - taking a keep increases your rating by 0.30
    - taking an OP increases your rating by 0.25
    - killing a DoF boss increases your rating by 0.20 - your rating does not effect what you earn, only what you drop.
    making rank farming harder
    you can ignore most of what I put and focus on 2 new factors. after being killed >20 times without killing another player in any form, that charactor will no longer drop glory points. the obvious way to get around this is to make a new freever every 10 kills
    . how long do you think that takes? how much harder is that? going that one step further it's be much easier to track who is rank farming if all there kills are from now deleted reavers...

    How does this effect the rest of PvP?
    I'm sure many of you could pick holes in this idea better than I could. but mostly, this would cut down of farming graveyards very quickly. however I don't think it'd be that hard for the adverage player to stay around a 10:1 kill death ratio (not KB btw) to still give the enemy some glory points. I would make "noobs" slightly less of a target as they probably have low rating regularly.

    I also put in a heavy bonus to your rating when taking an OP and keep. your rating does not change how much glory you earn, only how much you drop. so this actually rewards players for fighting back after losing a keep instead of the other way round. high standing PvP players who can keep there rating high would be much more of a prize goal, and would be interesting how this would pan out

    what do you think?

    that already exists.
    if you have a rating of 0 you reward the player who kills you with 0 base-glory.*
    if you have a rating of 2000 you reward the player who kills you with 200 base-glory.*

    *) approximately, total glory depending on buffs and other factors.
    Last edited by Milithion; Jun 20 2013 at 08:23 AM.
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  8. #58
    "Q20: What is being done about Multi-boxing/Rank Farming?"

    Here's my experience with Multiboxers in the Ettenmoors and how it impacted me.

    I play a Burg, Multiboxing BA's can just one shot me. A single player, can just instantly slay me with one click of the mouse button. How is that fair, how is that not an exploit or cheat.

    Don't worry, I understand how multiboxing works, and how it's not really a bot application and it's just 6 mouse clicks in reality and it's not really cheating at all but just a clever use of software. Looks like cheating to me in PvMP, feels like cheating, and impacts the use of the game. How does it impact? We'll, when the boxer is on, it's my policy, and my kinships, and other people that I know to simply leave the Ettenmoors in protest.

    This deprives feeding the boxer, it also unfortunately makes the Ettenmoors a ghost town when the boxers are on. If the boxer is on Freep side, we leave then too.

    So yes, Multiboxing does impact the play and will continue to do so. On my server the Multiboxers rarely show now.

    It would be nice for Turbine to acknowledge that multiboxing in the Ettenmoors really is not appropriate. It gives the player an unfair advantage.


    Multiboxers talk about how you can just cut off the head boxer and win and it's really just adding to the challenge. Sure, it's true, but I just got sick of being one shotted. Maybe as a champ or mini you can do this easily but some of the other classes have no real chance. It's probably worse for creeps, can't imagine a BA taking out 6 hunters targeting them.

  9. #59
    Q15: What other games does the team play?
    A15: Tons. We’re all gamers here so we play a lot of different things. Using just this past week as an example? Minecraft (FTB)
    ...
    War Thunder
    ...
    Good to see there are some wwii combat flightsim enthusiasts within the team like me.

  10. #60
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    Most important question for many lotro players:

    When you guys gonna make paid services avaliable again?

  11. #61
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    The game could also offer us a cheat console, only to help us during glitches and other problems. Like temporary gm powers, and not just /unstuck. But that propably would be exploited very fast, so why allowing multiboxing if exploiting is similar easy with this technique?
    But I also agree, Multiboxing isn't inherently bad. Just like a cheat console ... or a robot. I depend how people are using it.
    It's just every multiboxer I've met in the game uses this as an big advantage. X times faster leveling, x times more damage, x times more gold and ressources. Way more advantage the shop could offer.

    People agreed to convenience advantages via shop purchases, some of them are controversial, but at the end they help turbine to develop this game. I don't see this kind of synergy with multiboxers in a f2p game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    And unless all "legal" software isn't directly from turbine or at least approved in some way, who can assure that the used mechanics/macros and software isn't in violation agains the rules everyone in the game has to accept.
    Last edited by Schinderhannes; Jun 20 2013 at 08:50 AM.

  12. #62
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    Great idea and very much appreciated from my side.

    One thing I do wonder though is how often will this be repeated and on what timeline?
    I don't want to be negative at all because I like this kind of communication with the playerbase but what I'm afraid of is that this is going to be like the Twitter Dev chats that are done 3 times and after 3 months they are not repeated anymore..

    This 20 questions feature is easier in repeating/scheduling I guess as you don't have to get all the people answering them in the same room at the same time.
    Just sent out a bunch of questions to the various people who are in charge of the questioned area and tell them they have 3 weeks to send an answer back.. collect the answers and put them on the forum.. rinse and repeat each month..

    That's a lot easier than trying to convince 5 colleagues that they have to schedule an hour or 2 free for a Dev chat on Twitter..
    So I'm hoping that this will be repeated on a set schedule.. like once a month..?

  13. #63
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    Thank you for this! Very interesting.

  14. #64

    Talking Do you know much code that is?

    "Q19: Of all the systems and mechanics in the game, which was the most complicated/difficult to create?
    A19: Mounted Combat. "

    I remember this being discussed years ago and the dev response then was "Do you know how much code that is???!" That is a long standing joke in our family when someone asks for something. heehee My only complaint is I wish I could like go to Angmar and use mounted combat on my deeds there while mounted. With the scrolls I could be getting sooooo many deeds done in so little time!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000008381d/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q20: What is being done about Multi-boxing/Rank Farming?

    Rank Farming, which doesn’t require mutli-boxing by the way, is another matter entirely. We’ve run several investigations to figure out how best to address it and so far haven’t been happy with the results. False positives, which could lead to potentially banning Top Tier PvMP players because they accumulate more renown/infamy than most rank farmers over the same period of time, are a major concern.

    It’s a much more complicated matter than simply checking a database and banning those who rapidly accumulate infamy and renown. It’s a complex issue and we continue to discuss and investigate reasonable and appropriate ways to address it. - Sapience
    I understand then that rank farming is not allowed in game since that post (not long ago it wasn't an offence according to the Turbine team, so i would like to clear that up)? Question following first is (if rank farming is not allowed): When I will find someone farming and report that person, will i cause GM to log into the game and look on his own at reported farmer (if he still will be there)? Will that GM be in force to penalize said farming player?

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Milithion View Post
    This is the way Codemasters handeld it:
    A couple of posters already drawing attention to the fact that Codemasters had a policy on rank farming in the 'moors and would take action against players. This was my thought also.

    No system is going to be perfect in this particular part of the game, but it is an insult and a slap in the face to honest players (who form the majority of players in the 'moors) that cheaters continue to play unpunished by Turbine. There have already been some relatively simple suggestions made by people in this thread and Turbine could implement something along the lines Codemasters had as an interim measure if they are still looking for a solution of their own. As has already been pointed out, deed and chat logs etc can be used to verify suspiscious activity.

    I discovered a new (freep) clubber on Eldar last night and called in tribe mates to the location where he was clubbing the same r0 freaver over. We took action into our own hands and put an end to his clubbing at that particular time. Called him out in /ooc afterwards so that his actions would become known on both sides. Would be much better though if there were in-game penalties enforceable by Turbine as player policing of this activity is not ideal or desirable for a whole range of reasons.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by lord_rastas View Post
    "Q20: What is being done about Multi-boxing/Rank Farming?"

    Here's my experience with Multiboxers in the Ettenmoors and how it impacted me.

    I play a Burg, Multiboxing BA's can just one shot me. A single player, can just instantly slay me with one click of the mouse button. How is that fair, how is that not an exploit or cheat.

    ...
    This is a very good example of how someone multiboxing in the 'moors WILL have an unfair advantage over another (solo) player.

    If people want to multibox in PvE areas, then fair enough, but PvMP is player vs player - not player vs player plus bots. It is competitive and having bots that heal the main character or do extra dps against the multiboxers target gives an unfair advantage - there can be absolutely NO way that multiboxing in the 'moors cannot give the player concerned some advantage over a player that doesn't use bots.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Runesi_EU View Post
    Your screenshot does not show the character being deleted, thanks for clearing that up and answering my question.
    Of course a screenshot won't show a character being deleted - that is something that will not be captured on a 'chat' log. I hope I have cleared up your misunderstanding and answered your question...

  19. #69
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by welden View Post
    My question...

    Why stop at just answering 20?

    Welden
    We had to stop somewhere. Ten was originally the cut off, then we doubled it. This isn't' a one-off by the way. This may not be a weekly feature, but we'll try to do them frequently enough that we keep a steady stream of information coming out.

    The whole concept behind this was the "I always wondered" type of questions we see a lot of that no one has every really answered, or never answered with an in depth "here's how we make the sausage" answer. obviously there are limits to how much of that kind of thing we can answer, but we'll try to do so more often where we can.

    What we didn't include, intentionally, are quesitons we've answered so many times that a quick search of the forums would turn up many responses. Things like lag questions (many, many, many answers), Paid services (there's a sticky in the account support forums), Helms Deep (we've said we have a schedule and will release info accordingly), and other similar questions.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by leixy View Post
    i have to give you props, i love mounted combat 2.0. The refresh and class changes / riddermark line was an amazing accomplishment. I nary hear any complaint about classes being miss-matched on mounted combat now. Congrats and thank you. Looking forward to a bright future for war-steeds.

    P.s. This post does not include my thoughts on close quarters forestry war-bands,
    you are so wrong... I canceled vip because mounted combat displeases me soooo much!!! I will not buy tps (about 100$ per month) anymore either. It is worse now than ever ... Mounted combat must go away for me to come back

    p.s. My champ solo s just about all the warbands and i have hit for like 25k regularly so i do not suck at mounted combat---- mounted combat is just not enjoyable to me

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We had to stop somewhere. Ten was originally the cut off, then we doubled it. This isn't' a one-off by the way. This may not be a weekly feature, but we'll try to do them frequently enough that we keep a steady stream of information coming out.

    The whole concept behind this was the "I always wondered" type of questions we see a lot of that no one has every really answered, or never answered with an in depth "here's how we make the sausage" answer. obviously there are limits to how much of that kind of thing we can answer, but we'll try to do so more often where we can.

    What we didn't include, intentionally, are quesitons we've answered so many times that a quick search of the forums would turn up many responses. Things like lag questions (many, many, many answers), Paid services (there's a sticky in the account support forums), Helms Deep (we've said we have a schedule and will release info accordingly), and other similar questions.
    I know about the paid services sticky. However it's been over 3 months now & surely someone could tell us if we are close to having them back or not. I sure hope that the character transfer process will no longer need someone to manually do it because it it still does, you guys are going to have major back log of just that alone which is gonna suck. I think people are just getting tired of waiting & waiting & waiting.
    It's not Teal... it's [SIZE=3][COLOR=#00ffff][B]CYAN[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]!

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    As far as I know we haven't said anything about Helms Deep beyond our initial press release and letting players know that we have a schedule for information releases and we'll share more info at the appropriate times. Anything beyond that is either rumor, speculation, or flat out invented information.
    Thank you for addressing this, it seems like everyone is saying we won't get an instance cluster because the HD announcement did not include "instance cluster or raid" in it, when, as far as I can tell, every expansion pack in the history of LOTRO has never included "instance cluster or raid" in the actual announcement, and it was only after that when information was starting to be released that the clusters and raids were announced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    That sounds a lot different than the March 21st Twitter chat:

    Glad to hear the possibility for a raid and an instance cluster at HD launch is still alive and well! Or at least revived and kicking.
    That question and response was talking about scaling old instances, not about new HD instances:

    "Q28: OverlordGate - Which instance cluster will be scaled and revamped next and when can we expect it?"

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Paid services (there's a sticky in the account support forums), and other similar questions.

    I read the sticky dated March 5. It says, "We are excited about some big improvements to Paid Service requests in the near future!"


    That's over 3 months. A "near future" like that is what I want my doctor to mean when it's my time to go.

    Seriously, it's frustrating. I would like to know if I should start some characters and crafts all over or wait -- but I can't decide based on zero information. Indecision is not conducive to an enjoyable gaming experience. Give me anything. A month, 2, 6, anything so I can make some decisions.

    Sincerely,
    Lou de Torres

  24. #74
    I think part of the problem with rank farmers is the massive difference in numbers when killing in a group, or in a 1v1. This is what promotes the 1v1 areas and stops the interesting 'normal' solo and small group roaming the moors. Perhaps, create an instance, whereby people of opposing sides can join an instance que to enter a 1v1 or even small group against small group fight.

    However, for Ettens, I feel the amount of infamy per kill should be adjusted 500 per solo kill is a big difference from 6 or in some cases 2 in a group kill. These amounts just promote co-operation between players for arranged 'kills'. You kill me, I get 500, I kill you, you get 500..... lets do that all day and we will rank fast. Actually, it wouldn't take all day to accumulate the large numbers we see now. They even do it in groups, let me kill 'Jack' then 'Tom' then its your turn to kill me, then 'Harry'. In this organised play/cheating how on earth are GM''s supposed to know which, are legitimate fights.
    Last edited by Alotlost; Jun 20 2013 at 12:42 PM.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q20: What is being done about Multi-boxing/Rank Farming?
    A20: We’ve been having a very active discussion with the Players Council about this recently. One of the challenges here is breaking the issue into its component parts.

    Multi-boxing in-and-of-itself is not inherently bad or against our TOS. The Launcher allows you to run multiple clients and the bug preventing this was recently fixed.

    Rank Farming, which doesn’t require mutli-boxing by the way, is another matter entirely. We’ve run several investigations to figure out how best to address it and so far haven’t been happy with the results. False positives, which could lead to potentially banning Top Tier PvMP players because they accumulate more renown/infamy than most rank farmers over the same period of time, are a major concern.

    It’s a much more complicated matter than simply checking a database and banning those who rapidly accumulate infamy and renown. It’s a complex issue and we continue to discuss and investigate reasonable and appropriate ways to address it. - Sapience
    This is a poor answer. What about multiple strikes for boting? What about videos with obvious violation of TOS? Saying this is a complex issue is just avoiding the problem.
    If one farms renown he earns comms and gets access to top tier gear in PvMP that can be used for PvE. FAs, relics that can be deconstructed for shards is not something that should be forgotten easily. It reduces the value of playing. "investigate reasonable and appropriate ways to address it". You had enough time to deal with the problem and this seems you are just buying time or even sweeping it under the carpet.
    You can just say the same thing 2 years from now.....
    Why not eliminate or at least punish severely obvious boting and farming, discouraging others from the same behavior?

 

 
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