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  1. #1
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    OSX 10.9 Mavericks

    On yesterdays' Keynote, Apple announced the next version of their OS.

    Does someone of our fellow Mac players have a dev account and can test the compatibility of LOTRO? I know, that 10.9 is still in Beta, but it would be a nice and relieving test, since i don't expect any information at all from the Turbine guys on this matter.
    **Lifetime VIP Mac Player**
    Hope dies last, but it dies.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by padraxus View Post
    On yesterdays' Keynote, Apple announced the next version of their OS.

    Does someone of our fellow Mac players have a dev account and can test the compatibility of LOTRO? I know, that 10.9 is still in Beta, but it would be a nice and relieving test, since i don't expect any information at all from the Turbine guys on this matter.
    I can't tell you, and I'd have to shoot you if I did

    Compatibility testing is going to be primarily an issue with Awesomium.

    Awesomium is an "open source" piece of code based on Google's Chromium.
    It handles ALL of the dialogs between player and ... NPC/Vault/Store/etc. i.e. all pop-ups.

    The Mac Client is still using version Awesomium 1.6, which is known to have memory leak problems.
    Awesomium 1.7 was released in March of 2013.

    If, and not until, Turbine integrates 1.7 into both the Mac and PC Clients, will the memory leak problems be addressed... and no one knows if that will stop them or not.

    BTW, The most recent update -- 10.8.4 works with no problems. --- or rather, I should say, no NEW problems. (All the old ones are still there.)
    Last edited by Valamar; Jun 11 2013 at 10:16 AM. Reason: oops
    Bill Magill Mac Player
    (OTG)
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    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valanne - Beorning (90)
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    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)


    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  3. #3
    Just to temper any potential unrealistic expectations, the compressed memory feature won't help LotRO stop crashing, unfortunately. It only compresses the memory images of inactive apps, as an alternative to paging them out. This makes more physical memory available to the system as a whole, but that can't help an app that has exhausted its address space.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    Awesomium is an "open source" piece of code based on Google's Chromium.
    It handles ALL of the dialogs between player and ... NPC/Vault/Store/etc. i.e. all pop-ups.
    Emphasis added by me.

    Why do you keep saying this? Blue names have said on many occasions Awesomium is used by in-game browser elements (i.e Store, Help, Lorebook, etc.). I haven't seen anything that would indicate it is being used by anything else.

    When Turbine switched from Mozilla to Awesomium in the Bullroarer client, I did a lot of testing, including using a debugger. I found no evidence at all that would have lead me to believe Awesomium was used by anything other than in-game browser elements.

    Do you have evidence to the contrary? If not, please discontinue spreading misinformation.
    Last edited by Psarra; Jun 11 2013 at 12:16 PM.
    [B]Camden • Bancroft • Kimball • Melinnas • Psarra • Prentice • Lirendil[/B]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psarra View Post
    Why do you keep saying this? Blue names have said on many occasions Awesomium is used by in-game browser elements (i.e Store, Help, Lorebook, etc.). I haven't seen anything that would indicate it is being used by anything else.

    When Turbine switched from Mozilla to Awesomium in the Bullroarer client, I did a lot of testing, including using a debugger. I found no evidence at all that would have lead me to believe Awesomium was used by anything other than in-game browser elements.
    The only reference I have found to Awesomium by a blue name was by Sapience May 04 2012:
    Re: Awesomium
    From time to time, as we work on updating portions of the game, we put pieces in place ahead of their actual implementation. For example, the UI changes in advance of the additional bag. Aeseomium is one of those things.

    It's not in the patch notes because, aside from the .dlls mentioned, it's not in the game. Once it's finalized and available for use, it will be in the appropriate Update's patch notes.
    And, contrary to that statement, no mention of Awesomium has ever appeared in any of the patch notes from 6.0 (March 2012) forward.

    From everything I can find, it went live with Update 8 Riders of Rohan in October 2012.
    Bill Magill Mac Player
    (OTG)
    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valanne - Beorning (90)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)


    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  6. #6
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    My understanding is that Awesomium is used to display ALL dialog boxes.

    90% of those dialog boxes are completely external references -- typically to content.turbine.com

    Things such as individual Item Tooltips are NOT in the Game client dat files. They are retrieved in real-time from the main LOTRO database structure.

    I have not been able to get any blue-name to comment on the Awesomium issue, nor have I seen any. I presume they consider it a "trade secret" and therefore something they cannot/willnot talk about.
    Bill Magill Mac Player
    (OTG)
    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valanne - Beorning (90)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)


    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    The only reference I have found to Awesomium by a blue name was by Sapience May 04 2012.
    Here are a few that still exist. The rest were in the RoR beta forum and are no longer accessible. xRaina posted there on a few occasions as to the purpose of Awesomium.

    Here are a number of references that ARE still available, including the one you referenced by Sapience:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?390837-The-Bug-Reporting-Tool-and-You&p=6499979#post6499979
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?457664-Awesomium&p=6151652#post615165 2
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?509314-New-Bug-Reporting-System-OMG&p=6759896#post6759896
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?511403-The-Updated-Bug-Reporting-Tool&p=6811150#post6811150

    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    And, contrary to that statement, no mention of Awesomium has ever appeared in any of the patch notes from 6.0 (March 2012) forward.

    From everything I can find, it went live with Update 8 Riders of Rohan in October 2012.
    I don't disagree with you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    My understanding is that Awesomium is used to display ALL dialog boxes.

    90% of those dialog boxes are completely external references -- typically to content.turbine.com

    Things such as individual Item Tooltips are NOT in the Game client dat files. They are retrieved in real-time from the main LOTRO database structure.

    I have not been able to get any blue-name to comment on the Awesomium issue, nor have I seen any. I presume they consider it a "trade secret" and therefore something they cannot/willnot talk about.
    Again, do you have any evidence that this is the case? Have you done any testing to confirm your suspicions? If you have, please share. I would be very interested in seeing the data you collected.

    I have completed testing to confirm my suspicions, and I therefore disagree with your conclusions. When RoR was in beta, I used various debugging tools to watch when the awesomium DLLs were and were not referenced. I also used various networking tools to watch when and where the client was making tcp connections with particular interest in http and https traffic.

    My findings indicated that Awesomium was only used for in-game browser elements such as the store, lorebook, help, /bug, etc.

    All of the art assets used for interface elements are stored in the dat files in TGA format. You can use Nova Extractor to view the contents of these files if you wish, or you can head over to LoTROInterface and download the art assets directly: http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/info834-Update11SkinningPack.html

    Having those assets bundled in the dat files and then also downloaded using Awesomium every time they are needed makes little sense. Further, those assets do not seem to be cached anywhere on my system, providing further evidence that Awesomium has nothing to do with NPC dialog generation.

    Finally, packet captures created during LOTRO game play show no evidence Awesomium is downloading any interface elements to build NPC dialogs. The only traffic that shows up in these packet captures is generated through the store, lorebook, help, and /bug windows.

    I would encourage you to use a packet capture tool such as Wireshark or simply use tcpdump in Terminal (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3994) to see for yourself the traffic going into and out of your computer when you're playing LOTRO. You'll find that art assets are not being retrieved in real time from Turbine's servers for Awesomium to build NPC windows on the fly as you suggest.

    I conclude, based on evidence I obtained through various testing methods during the RoR beta, that Awesomium simply replaced the ancient mozilla-based in-game browser component.
    [B]Camden • Bancroft • Kimball • Melinnas • Psarra • Prentice • Lirendil[/B]

  8. #8
    Hi Bill. Well, I took the precaution of loading Maverick onto an external boot disk, and I'm glad I did. LOTRO is causing kernel panics. Next step is to re-install LOTRO onto the boot disk and try again. But for now, I'm keeping Lion on my main disk.
    Mac Player since 2010

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanfur View Post
    Hi Bill. Well, I took the precaution of loading Maverick onto an external boot disk, and I'm glad I did. LOTRO is causing kernel panics. Next step is to re-install LOTRO onto the boot disk and try again. But for now, I'm keeping Lion on my main disk.
    Wow... that's "different" -- I've not seen a Kernel panic for quite some time (as in years) in OSX. -- I've gotten numerous "spin-locks" which crash threads, but no kernel panics!

    Hard to believe that LOTRO is causing a Kernel Panic. OSX is much more robust than that.

    Do you have third party AV software installed? Historically that kind of software has made all kinds of kernel mods as part of its installation and the results are unpredictable.

    I had a PowerBook that was upgraded from Tiger to Lion (seemingly with no troubles) but could not get Crossover (WINE) and LOTRO to run. Yet I had an iMac which had a virgin install of Lion which had no problems with the same softeare. I finally "bit the bullet" -- wiped the PowerBook disk and installed Lion.... all problems disappeared.

    The PowerBook had been used by my son at college and he had installed (and theoretically uninstalled) a whole collection of media manipulation (AV) software. While installing those packages installs the Kernel mods, simply dragging the application to the trash does not get rid of them! Hence the wipe and re-install. ... at least that's the theory that Codeweavers support and I finally came up with after about 3 months of serious debugging.
    Bill Magill Mac Player
    (OTG)
    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valanne - Beorning (90)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)


    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  10. #10
    Ah, could be. I've been having all sorts of problems with Virus Barrier and been meaning to de-install for some time. Maybe now is the time.
    Mac Player since 2010

  11. #11
    I can't get the LOTRO Downloader to work on Mavericks (10.9).

    I click on the 'Mac Download' link on https://www.lotro.com/en/game/download

    I then open up the disk image file (lotrohigh.dmg) and per the cue,

    drag the "LOTRO-Live-multilang.app" icon to the Desktop.

    I then try double-clicking on it.

    The "LOTRO Downloader" starts up, prompts me for the administrator's password (which I enter)

    ... and then immediately exits with no error message.

    The Console shows the following messages during this:
    11/10/13 10:16:14.325 PM loginwindow[40]: ERROR | -[PersistentAppsSupport saveLogoutPersistentState:] | Attempt to insert app with NULL bundle ID
    11/10/13 10:16:16.230 PM launchservicesd[51]: Application App:"Finder" asn:0x0-c00c pid:233 refs=8 @ 0x7fec5a4223d0 tried to be brought forward, but isn't in fPermittedFrontApps ( ( "LSApplication:0x0-0x36036 pid=469 "SecurityAgent"")), so denying. : LASSession.cp #1481 SetFrontApplication() q=LSSession 100004/0x186a4 queue
    11/10/13 10:16:16.231 PM WindowServer[160]: [cps/setfront] Failed setting the front application to Finder, psn 0x0-0xc00c, securitySessionID=0x186a4, err=-13066



    Any body else having more/less success?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000544bf/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Pew! Pew! Pew!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhifOfDespair View Post
    I can't get the LOTRO Downloader to work on Mavericks (10.9).

    Anybody else having more/less success?
    This is correct.

    Pando (PMB) uses Java 6.

    Java 6 is a 32-bit Java which Apple eliminated and recommended people delete based on a Homeland Security advisory, back in January of 2013.
    Apple advised people to replace Java 6 with 64-bit Java 7 directly from Oracle.

    PMB will not run with Java 7.

    Other than that...

    When you click on the ring from PMB, it asks for your system password. And then it fails.

    I haven't played with it for a while now, but it was attempting to create
    /Library/Application Support/Media Booster/
    /Library/PreferencePanes/MediaBooster.prefPane
    /Library/Internet Plug-ins/PandoWebPlugin.plugin

    Which is probably what the problem is. Hard to say. But at this point. Your experience is "normal."
    Bill Magill Mac Player
    (OTG)
    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valanne - Beorning (90)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)


    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    This is correct.

    Pando (PMB) uses Java 6.

    Java 6 is a 32-bit Java which Apple eliminated and recommended people delete based on a Homeland Security advisory, back in January of 2013.
    Apple advised people to replace Java 6 with 64-bit Java 7 directly from Oracle.

    PMB will not run with Java 7.

    Other than that...

    When you click on the ring from PMB, it asks for your system password. And then it fails.

    I haven't played with it for a while now, but it was attempting to create
    /Library/Application Support/Media Booster/
    /Library/PreferencePanes/MediaBooster.prefPane
    /Library/Internet Plug-ins/PandoWebPlugin.plugin

    Which is probably what the problem is. Hard to say. But at this point. Your experience is "normal."
    Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

    The thing is, if the app depends on Java 6, it should still be able to run - I have Java 6 installed as well as 7.

    Any well-designed app can find if there is a compatible JVM installed on a mac using the 'java_home' command.

    For example, to find an installed version of Java 1.6.x, just use:

    > /usr/libexec/java_home -v 1.6

    That will return something like

    /System/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/1.6.0.jdk/Contents/Home

    while

    > /usr/libexec/java_home -v 1.7

    would return

    /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/1.7.0_45.jdk/Contents/Home


    So there is no reason that it shouldn't be able to detect that a Java 6 runtime is installed.

    You can both find and invoke any of the standard java executables ('java', 'jar', 'javap', etc.) using the "-exec" option:

    > /usr/libexec/java_home -v 1.6 -exec java args ...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000544bf/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Pew! Pew! Pew!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhifOfDespair View Post
    Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

    The thing is, if the app depends on Java 6, it should still be able to run - I have Java 6 installed as well as 7.

    Any well-designed app can find if there is a compatible JVM installed on a mac using the 'java_home' command.
    After thinking on things a bit... I suspect that the "real" culprit is Apple's Gatekeeper.

    The errors seem to be "security" related type things.

    I just haven't spent any significant time on it since the spring trying to guess what might be happening.

    Those files I mentioned in my earlier post are what actually happens "next" -- after you click on the ring, and the app "dies." (i.e. did happen previously.)

    These are the notes I kept... (which I can't definitely remember what they mean or why I kept them. )

    --------<cut here>-------
    PMB info

    /Library/Application Support/Media Booster/PMB Files
    tail -f "/Library/Application Support/Media Booster/PMB Files"/pando.log

    sudo rm -r "/Library/PreferencePanes/MediaBooster.prefPane"
    sudo rm -r "/Library/Internet Plug-ins/PandoWebPlugin.plugin"

    /var/folders/
    sudo find . -name \*PMB\*

    #sudo find /var/folders -name \*PMB\* -exec tail -f {} \;


    sudo find . -name \*Pando\* -print
    /private/var/db/receipts/com.pandonetworks.pandoMediaBo oster.PandoWebPlugin.pkg.bom
    /private/var/db/receipts/com.pandonetworks.pandoMediaBo oster.PandoWebPlugin.pkg.plist

    ~/Library/LaunchAgents/com.pando.PMB.plist
    --------<cut here>-------
    Since the directories "Media Booster" are not being created, I am assuming there is some sort of "Protection"/"Secutity" issue.

    I did just notice that last find implies exactly that...

    tail: /var/folders/zz/zyxvpxvq6csfxvn_n0000000000000/C/PKInstallSandboxManager/7438D0A5-3EAD-42C8-9C41-F5C895FC3360.sandbox/Root/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.8.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Plugins/PMBrowser.framework: Is a directory

    At this point, I would guess the only "outside chance" of discovering a fix is to submit a Ticket and hope that support will bother to respond.

    But since when I managed to get them to put up a Mac Client for Bullroarer at the beginning of the HD beta, they put it up as an Acakamai FTP download, and then replaced it with a PMB downloader... they will respond -- it works for us.
    Bill Magill Mac Player
    (OTG)
    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valanne - Beorning (90)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)


    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  15. #15
    I've had no problems running Pando under Mavericks (apart from the time it took to download). And the new installation works just fine. Currently installing Mavericks on my main disk.

    Hanfur
    Mac Player since 2010

 

 

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