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  1. #1

    Question on attack duration runes on LI

    Hi guys, does -attack duration matter to RK attacks and or heals? Does using -attack duration devices contribute to faster fire/lightning/frost attacks and/or heals?

    Is it worth to slot both -attack runes to the legendary item? Thanks.

  2. #2
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    those -5% attack duration are only really useful for lightning skills since they dont have any inductions
    attack duration is the delay between two skills so if you have inductions it doesn't have much impact because most induction skills have an aftercast animation as well

    personally i didn't bother with those -5% because in a raid the cappy/minstrel buffs to attack duration are way better and those 5% dont make that much difference
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

  3. #3
    Attack duration affects the delay you get with any skill. While people say that lightning gets the best use out of it, which is true, it does also affect healing and fire and frost. If you've got the shards to spend, you may as well go with the attack duration. 5% won't be a huge, noticeable difference, but there's nothing else significantly better for the rune spots. Group up with a captain who gives you blade brother and war cry, and you'll see the benefits of attack duration with things like fiery ridicule spam, or calming verse/mending verse spam, both of which have a delay after casting.

  4. #4
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    Totally worth it. First because just the fact that relic gives ya +tac mastery is enough to get it. You should get these relics even if they didnt have the -2,5% attack duration.

    And second, -% attack duration is something like a +% damage. If you hit faster, you do more damage in a certain time.
    Its like you were doing +2,5% damage per relic.

    Yeah, its not as good as war-cry of cappy, but it doestn mean its not worth it or you shouldnt take it.
    Cappy also buffs for crit, would you stop increasing your critical rating because of this?
    The same for morale, mastery, etc.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moorgane View Post
    Attack duration affects the delay you get with any skill. While people say that lightning gets the best use out of it, which is true, it does also affect healing and fire and frost. If you've got the shards to spend, you may as well go with the attack duration. 5% won't be a huge, noticeable difference, but there's nothing else significantly better for the rune spots. Group up with a captain who gives you blade brother and war cry, and you'll see the benefits of attack duration with things like fiery ridicule spam, or calming verse/mending verse spam, both of which have a delay after casting.
    all true, those 5% affect lightning skills way more than skills with induction

    with 100% attack duration (default) you can use 40 CAs per minute, the attack duration for one CA is 1,5s
    with 95% attack duration you can use 42 CAs per minute, the attack duration for one CA is 1,425s

    with 100% attack duration you can use 28 FRs per minute, the attack duration (plus induction) for one FR is 2,1428s
    with 95% attack duration you can still only use 28 FRs per minute, the attack duration (plus incution) for one FR is 2,1107s


    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    Totally worth it. First because just the fact that relic gives ya +tac mastery is enough to get it. You should get these relics even if they didnt have the -2,5% attack duration.
    i assume you are talking about the "True Rune of the White Mountains" (-2,5% attack duration, 646 physical/tactical mastery, 30 agility) which costs 9984 shards
    the "True Rune of the Swift-Light" has -2,5% attack duration on it as well as 296 morale and 276 power, cost 4992 shards
    i don't know about you but i prefer 300 morale over those 650 mastery any day. plus it is 50% cheaper

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    And second, -% attack duration is something like a +% damage. If you hit faster, you do more damage in a certain time.
    Its like you were doing +2,5% damage per relic.
    absolutely NOT true.
    -5% attack duration is not +5% damage, far from it

    i'm using tooltip dmg here

    40 CA in one min do 43680, 1092 per CA
    42 CA in one min do 45864, increase of 1,05% dmg

    same story with FR although you can't even use more FR in that one min

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    Yeah, its not as good as war-cry of cappy, but it doestn mean its not worth it or you shouldnt take it.
    Cappy also buffs for crit, would you stop increasing your critical rating because of this?
    The same for morale, mastery, etc.
    to me it looks like you don't really know what you are doing with your RK...

    if you think you don't stop stacking crit when you know that you will get cappy crit buffs you either are not good geared or just dont care if you are over the cap

    crit caps at 25%, which is around 13500 crit
    i don't know how much crit you have but i definitely stop stacking crit above 10200 when i know that i have a captain in the raid (which is pretty much always)

    1519 crit from ring proc + 1806 from cappy buff (85 2nd age) = 3325
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    the "True Rune of the Swift-Light" has -2,5% attack duration on it as well as 296 morale and 276 power, cost 4992 shards
    i don't know about you but i prefer 300 morale over those 650 mastery any day. plus it is 50% cheaper
    It deppends on your current stats.
    (when buffed) I got both mithigations on cap, resistance on cap, critical defense around 30%, and a good ammount of morale.
    For me 600 tac/mastery is more important than 300 of morale.

    Also, shards are never a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    absolutely NOT true.
    -5% attack duration is not +5% damage, far from it
    You are right, my bad.
    Thanks for sharing the maths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    to me it looks like you don't really know what you are doing with your RK...

    if you think you don't stop stacking crit when you know that you will get cappy crit buffs you either are not good geared or just dont care if you are over the cap

    crit caps at 25%, which is around 13500 crit
    i don't know how much crit you have but i definitely stop stacking crit above 10200 when i know that i have a captain in the raid (which is pretty much always)

    1519 crit from ring proc + 1806 from cappy buff (85 2nd age) = 3325
    I dont know if its a language issue, but i never meant we should stack crit foverer. I keep 10,4 on mine.
    Btw, check my posts and u'll see that i gave the same tip for another guy 2 days ago (10 - 10,5k of c. rating).

    About my gear, and if i dont know what im doing with my RK, see for yourself (im ni moors, so dont look at tac/mast).

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/iryw7hizau...odoro%2085.jpg
    Last edited by Abbiati; Jun 12 2013 at 07:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandura View Post
    absolutely NOT true.
    -5% attack duration is not +5% damage, far from it

    i'm using tooltip dmg here

    40 CA in one min do 43680, 1092 per CA
    42 CA in one min do 45864, increase of 1,05% dmg
    Using your numbers the -5% attack duration = +5% damage. A perfect match. You didn't exactly prove your point. You showed quite the opposite of what you were trying to say in regard to lightning..

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the correction, timmyloo22546!
    You are right: 45864/43680 is 1,05 = 105%

    (I was close to throwing away my -2,5% attack duration relic.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    It deppends on your current stats.
    (when buffed) I got both mithigations on cap, resistance on cap, critical defense around 30%, and a good ammount of morale.
    For me 600 tac/mastery is more important than 300 of morale.

    Also, shards are never a problem.
    ok thats youre choice, no problem with that

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    I dont know if its a language issue, but i never meant we should stack crit foverer. I keep 10,4 on mine.
    Btw, check my posts and u'll see that i gave the same tip for another guy 2 days ago (10 - 10,5k of c. rating).
    guess i missunderstood then. it read like as if you were stacking crit endlessly
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    About my gear, and if i dont know what im doing with my RK, see for yourself (im ni moors, so dont look at tac/mast).
    was not meant as an insult, it just looked like it judging from what you posted


    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    Using your numbers the -5% attack duration = +5% damage. A perfect match. You didn't exactly prove your point. You showed quite the opposite of what you were trying to say in regard to lightning..
    ok i forgot to devide by 100 and took the 1,05 for the % my bad
    then 5% attack duration is actually 5% more dmg for lightning

    the thing about induction skills is true though, they almost dont profit from attack duration at all so thats at least true
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

  10. #10
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    It's absolutley useless for heals. Someone mentioned using it for Calming Verse to get some better Mending spam is helpful. You get the same number of Mending casts with or without them. Try equipping a DPS rune set with 5%, and a heal set without it. No change.

    The Attack Speed is really only a benefit over a long period of non-induction casts. For tiny little bursts like a healer does, it's a tremendous waste. Get health, or even + devastate magnitude for big fat crits.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_Loomis View Post
    It's absolutley useless for heals. Someone mentioned using it for Calming Verse to get some better Mending spam is helpful. You get the same number of Mending casts with or without them. Try equipping a DPS rune set with 5%, and a heal set without it. No change.

    The Attack Speed is really only a benefit over a long period of non-induction casts. For tiny little bursts like a healer does, it's a tremendous waste. Get health, or even + devastate magnitude for big fat crits.
    If im not wrong, heals cannot devastate, just crit.
    Am i wrong?
    What about crit magnitude? Have someone checked if they affects heals?

  12. #12
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    Heals both crit and dev-crit. However, the floaty shows both as crits so people over the past 6 years have often said "heals don't dev-crit". Subsequently you don't get that big POP that people tend to notice. As well, CAnalysis if you use it, doesn't report it, because it can't. But they certainly are there.

    Heals crit, dev-crit, and always have. So use your crit chisel; get your crit gear up, and use the dev runes (or morale). But gods don't use those stinky atk runes! Useful for some classes. Not useful for fire or heal RKs, and difficult to even argue they are useful for lightning RKs, over the other options available. Some people swear by them, well, they can have their extra 1-3 CA's or whatever over the course of the fight, I think on such a soft class the morale is simply wiser.

  13. #13
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    To be pedantic here:

    Starting from 'normal', ie: 100% attack duration, -5% attack duration brings the attack duration to 95%. That is not equivalent to 5% damage increase but 1 - (100/95) = ~0.0526 = ~5.26% damage increase.

    That's not a huge difference, hence me being pedantic, but on the other hand as you bring your attack duration lower and lower, that difference becomes more and more significant. For a more intuitive understanding: imagine you could get -50% attack duration, bringing your attack duration down to half of 'normal'. Since you would be able to use twice as many (non induction) skills within a given period, your damage output would effectively double, ie, -50% attack duration would translate into +100% dps. Even more extreme, if you could get -90% attack duration, your dps would be *ten* times higher. At -100% attack duration, dps would theoretically become infinite (if you and the software could cope with infinite amounts of requests instantly anyway).

    More to the point: if you get -25% attack duration (captain + minstrel buffs), your attack duration becomes 75% of normal, your damage output increases by 1 - (100/75) = +33.34%, not +25%.

    In that situation, bringing your attack duration down another 5% to 70%, would confer: 1 - (75/70) = +7.14% dps over your dps at 75% attack duration (Equivalently, you would go from +33% to +42.86% (1-(100/70)) over your dps at 100% attack duration.

    All assuming of course induction-less skills only being used.

 

 

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