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Thread: Horses

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    Or... take away maps altogether, wargs become goblins with the same skills they had as wargs, warg is now a mount for creeps and they get around the map the same as freeps. Spiders would need a different mechanic, heck they are uber fast now anyways...

    Discussed.
    No.

    Just . . . no.

    Wargs will not submit to being mounted.

    In Sauron's Angmar, Wargs mount you.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daec View Post
    Disable march in keeps.
    Disable march when swimming.
    Give march a 2.0s induction, not usable while moving.

    But in all honestly i would be fine with removing maps and mounts from the area, giving freeps a skill similiar to march.
    March in Keeps? Meh. Indifferent.

    March while swimming? Because, what, Creeps can cross the water about 2 seconds faster than a Freep can?

    Longer induction. So it will take twice as long as a Freep summoning their mount, in order to get just over half the speed boost?

    Sure, that seems perfectly fair.

    I have noticed a pattern though. Most of the people in favor of removing Maps from Creepside either don't understand the tactical advantage mounts give, or just want everything to be the same.

    So let me make it an analogy. Creepside has Paratroopers who, with some preparation, can get to various spaces on the map very quickly, but are then slow to maneuver. Freepside has Mechanized Infantry, who can't deploy quite so quickly, but who has much higher tactical mobility.

    The sides are different. Embrace it.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SongSinger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beast_of_War
    Maps give creeps instant access to distant points on the map, horses (+goats) require movement; give horses teleportation to points on the map or destroy all maps.

    That is it.

    Discuss.
    Maps have cool-downs, varying from 5 to 30 minutes, horses don't. You forgot to mention that very important point, as does every single freep who brings up creep maps in these forums...
    Oh dear. You seem to have misunderstood, well, everything that I was trying to say. Let me clarify.
    In the OP's post, he was declaring a freep advantage:
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley
    March is disabled in combat, horses require an interrupt; dismount horses in combat or require an interrupt to disengage march.

    That is it.

    Discuss.
    I responded by quoting a creep advantage:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beast_of_War
    Maps.
    He then responded with:
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley
    what of them? The sides are not mirrored, freeps have many advantages over creeps in other ways, maps are a creep perk.

    The general mobility away from map points is more the case in question.
    My response, to which you responded in turn, was simply a clarification of my "maps": that freeps have advantages, true, but creeps have counter-advantages as well. To do this, I simply rephrased a freep advantage with a creep one, and then a further replication of removing that advantage - facetiously. I thought such a suggestion obviously ridiculous. Apparently not.
    Yet, as I realized some level of subtlety was involved, I also included:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beast_of_War
    I suppose, in summation:
    Freepside: superior movement on the battlefield; yet lack of teleport to the battlefield
    -mounts +62/68% movement speed; requires interrupts to end
    Creepside: inferior movement on the battlefield; yet ability to teleport en masse to the battlefield
    -march/mobilize +25/35% movement speed; ends immediately in combat
    -maps give access to various points on the map

    Mirrored? No. Balanced? Possibly.
    I have learned my lesson: any level of subtlety is too subtle.

    Now back to the OP: Since the mobility of each side is not mirrored, then it is difficult to say, "it is balanced!"; since the truth is: "they are different! Sometimes one is better than the other, and sometimes not!"
    Since balance is naturally a great concern (and the seeming balance perhaps even a greater concern) a solution might be thus:
    Mobility:
    Creeps:
    -March gives +62% movement. Instantly (or y-second induction; but same as freepside). Out of combat.
    -Mobilize gives +80% movement for group. Out of combat. Out of keeps. X-second induction.
    -Maps: teleport to 6 areas. Induction.

    Freeps:
    -steed (or new March skill; steeds disabled) gives + 62% movement. Instantly (or y-second induction; but same as creepside) Out of combat.
    -Captain's steed (or new Mobilize skill) gives + 80% movement for fellowship. Out of combat. Out of keeps. X-second induction.
    -Maps: teleport to 6 areas. Induction.

    Voila, balance. Rejoice, it is here (or at least, now it is indisputable). Weep, for difference is gone. Well, choose one of the two, anyway.

    TL;DR: 1)The current mobility system is not mirrored, but possibly balanced. 2) An end to the question of balance: mirror them, with giving the current benefits of each, to both.

  4. #29
    Wow all this debate about mirroring sides, removing or extending maps, equalizing march and mount speeds and abolishing warg skins.....

    I was not saying remove freep mount speed advantage, mirror the sides, just that knocking freeps off horses when they are put in combat rather than an interrupt, after the initial posts with beast of war, everyone seems to have gone off on some mad tangent.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast_of_War View Post
    Maps.
    freeps also have maps. At least to get away. Unlike creeps they have some maps that can be used in-combat. Just ask burgs.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    Wow all this debate about mirroring sides, removing or extending maps, equalizing march and mount speeds and abolishing warg skins.....

    I was not saying remove freep mount speed advantage, mirror the sides, just that knocking freeps off horses when they are put in combat rather than an interrupt, after the initial posts with beast of war, everyone seems to have gone off on some mad tangent.
    The topic has changed rather radically, hasn't it? I don't believe I am entirely responsible, though. I simply mentioned that it could be considered as one (and a minor one at that) of several differences in the creep/freep trade-off, and the discussion moved from there. Nonetheless, you bring up a subject which would affect balance (no matter how small of an effect that would have), and do not expect some discourse on balance?
    Anyway, back to you: Freeps should become instantly dismounted in combat. But still, not a big deal either way.
    Last edited by Beast_of_War; Jun 07 2013 at 10:30 PM.

  7. #32
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4j View Post
    March in Keeps? Meh. Indifferent.

    March while swimming? Because, what, Creeps can cross the water about 2 seconds faster than a Freep can?

    Longer induction. So it will take twice as long as a Freep summoning their mount, in order to get just over half the speed boost?

    Sure, that seems perfectly fair.

    I have noticed a pattern though. Most of the people in favor of removing Maps from Creepside either don't understand the tactical advantage mounts give, or just want everything to be the same.

    So let me make it an analogy. Creepside has Paratroopers who, with some preparation, can get to various spaces on the map very quickly, but are then slow to maneuver. Freepside has Mechanized Infantry, who can't deploy quite so quickly, but who has much higher tactical mobility.

    The sides are different. Embrace it.
    That was exactly my point. The OP wants march and mounts to be similar in one area without addressing the others, my post was more in jest than in seriousness.

    Each skill has its advantages and disadvantages.

    BTW, the induction for a mount is 2.0s, so no it would not take twice as long.
    Last edited by Daec; Jun 08 2013 at 04:44 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daec View Post
    That was exactly my point. The OP wants march and mounts to be similar in one area without addressing the others, my post was more in jest than in seriousness.

    Each skill has its advantages and disadvantages.

    BTW, the induction for a mount is 2.0s, so no it would not take twice as long.
    The induction for a war steed is 2 seconds. Seem to remember regular mounts are still 1. But yeah . . . thing is, I'm still in favor of the two sides having different strategic/tactical movement paradigms on the grid. Yes, there are circumstances where one will have advantages over the other, but that just goes to playing to your own advantages.

  9. #34

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graycient View Post
    they should both remain as they are so that both sides stay unique.
    agree.

 

 
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