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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Broken loot system in Carn Dum/Urugarth/Barad Gularan

    Dear Turbine,

    When remote looting aka "the new loot system" was introduced, it was said that:

    Every character will auto loot one or more items that
    1.) will fit to the respective classes
    2.) will be bind on equip so you can trade them (exept golden items)


    ... well then please explain to me what happend in the Angmar 6man instances:
    After defeating Helchgam (Carn Dum):
    -> our Lore-Master looted an one-hand-axe "Stone-Biter" (teal quality) with might on it
    -> our Rune-Keeper looted a dagger "Auger" (teal quality) with agility on it
    and after defeating Lagmas (Urugarth):
    -> our Captain looted a light-armour hat "Laingarab" (teal quality)
    these are only examples...





    Oh... and of course these teal items were NOT bind on equip but bind on acquire!


    Can you (Turbine) please give a statement on this issue?

    ... if you have to introduce this strange new loot-system (which I personally hate) for the new content, why can't you at least leave the old instances the way they were (and worked).

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Except those instance don't use the new loot system, but the old one. New system is only for the scaled instances and raids. You're complaining about 'vanilla SoA, when the game was at the peak".
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  3. #3
    Yeah, you should have seen a roll/pass at each chest. Otherwise you were giving all loot to the person who opened the chests.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi108 View Post
    Except those instance don't use the new loot system, but the old one. New system is only for the scaled instances and raids. You're complaining about 'vanilla SoA, when the game was at the peak".
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon
    Yeah, you should have seen a roll/pass at each chest. Otherwise you were giving all loot to the person who opened the chests.
    Sorry but you are wrong. There are no chests. You auto-loot the stuff in the moment when you defeat the boss... I will post a video if you don't believe me.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    Sorry but you are wrong. There are no chests. You auto-loot the stuff in the moment when you defeat the boss... I will post a video if you don't believe me.
    You are right, I forgot those were from boss kills. That is still the same loot they always gave though. They didn't update loot in instances that don't scale. They completely removed those special items in the scaled instaces.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    You are right, I forgot those were from boss kills. That is still the same loot they always gave though. They didn't update loot in instances that don't scale. They completely removed those special items in the scaled instaces.
    Yes they come from boss kills, but no they DID changed the loot system here.

    In this video I made a few min ago, I have "master loot" activated but Helchgam is remote looted in the moment he dies:

    Last edited by Eruadarion; Jun 06 2013 at 01:22 PM.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    yeah it feels quite broken in that your bags get a crazy amount of items. everyone getting everything possible from everything. bags and even the pending bags fill up super quick.

    I would suggest you /bug it in game. it's obviously because this place didn't a good working auto-loot system.
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  8. #8
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    Sounds like yet another instance where Turbine didn't really think through the consequences of their actions. If we're lucky, it will get fixed someday. When Moria released, they changed L50 poison and wound skills to where they couldn't be cured if they were applied by raid bosses. They also changed stun immunity to not grant immunity to cowering from dread, effectively making it impossible to complete Thaurlach at level. Took a while to fix, and that was back when they actually seemed to care about fixing bugs.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    448
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    Yes they come from boss kills, but no they DID changed the loot system here.

    In this video I made a few min ago, I have "master loot" activated but Helchgam is remote looted in the moment he dies [snip]
    Thanks for making the vid. So it is remote-looting individually, but doesn't have class-aware loot tables, and the BoA items are still BoA. So if you don't get the BoA item you want in your own loot, the only way to get it is to run the instance again and cross your fingers.

    I fully expect the Angmar instances are slated for a revamp sometime, turning them into scaling instances with more modern loot. Carn Dum at least (probably Rift too, maybe Urugarth) will get the Fornost treatment: split into two or more shorter instances that can be run in a more reasonable time. Frankly I'm looking forward to this happening.
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  10. #10
    What you are seeing is a consequence of the the implementation of open tapping and personal loot - Middle Earth wide. You kill one of these bosses with a group of six. The game generates personal loot for each the six group members. You are getting 6 times the loot because there is a goodie bag given to each character.

    We have to wait for a full update to these instances so that the loot generation system creates --> Gold items that are class aware. The stats on these items look like what was populated in the loot tables back in 2007. These instances come out before there were Rune Keepers and Wardens. The stats probably never adjusted for the game changes that came with Mines of Moria, Mirkwood, Rise of Isengard, Riders of Rohan or any of the updates between the expansions.

    I bet the Rift works that same way. I can't remember how much of the Rift loot is in chests versus Boss corpses.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    What you are seeing is a consequence of the the implementation of open tapping and personal loot - Middle Earth wide. You kill one of these bosses with a group of six. The game generates personal loot for each the six group members. You are getting 6 times the loot because there is a goodie bag given to each character.
    He obviously understands that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    We have to wait for a full update to these instances so that the loot generation system creates --> Gold items that are class aware. The stats on these items look like what was populated in the loot tables back in 2007. These instances come out before there were Rune Keepers and Wardens. The stats probably never adjusted for the game changes that came with Mines of Moria, Mirkwood, Rise of Isengard, Riders of Rohan or any of the updates between the expansions.
    Not necessarily. There is currently non-gold loot that recognizes multiple classes as valid drop targets. The stats are not a problem--they're consistent with the rest of the game at L50--it's the fact that they didn't assign classes to their drop table. They should just add chests to CD, since chests can be left on the old non-remote looting system, it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I bet the Rift works that same way. I can't remember how much of the Rift loot is in chests versus Boss corpses.
    Not last time I ran it. As of a couple weeks ago, Master Looter still worked in the Rift, since the only things on corpses are the quest starter items on Thrang and Thaurlach, and everyone gets one of them.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by banjolier View Post
    I fully expect the Angmar instances are slated for a revamp sometime, turning them into scaling instances with more modern loot. Carn Dum at least (probably Rift too, maybe Urugarth) will get the Fornost treatment: split into two or more shorter instances that can be run in a more reasonable time. Frankly I'm looking forward to this happening.
    You want some of the finest work the devs have ever done in the game to become a mere memory? You're looking forward to having CD and Rift turned into lesser copies of themselves that can then be farmed ad nauseum so that you learn to hate it?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Not necessarily. There is currently non-gold loot that recognizes multiple classes as valid drop targets. The stats are not a problem--they're consistent with the rest of the game at L50--it's the fact that they didn't assign classes to their drop table. They should just add chests to CD, since chests can be left on the old non-remote looting system, it seems.
    I do not agree about the stats on these items. All these teals should be restated to work with the existing game. For example, Auger is 38.5 DPS. The standard DPS for a level 50 Mirrored (teal) crafted one handed weapon is is 41.7. Auger has a lower DPS than the purple level 50s are which are 39.0 DPS.

    The only thing Auger has going for it are the stats and Westernesse damage. It makes no sense under the current game design to put both Agility (Medium armor class primary stat) and Might (Heavy armor class primary stat) on the same weapon.

    I guess as a stop gap give Auger to Medium armor classes, Stone-Biter to heavy armor classes and the hat to Light armor classes since to the best of my knowledge there is no teal weapon that drops with will on it for this boss.

    Another question is how many people actually use non legendary weapons that run Card Dum. Mines of Moria made all these level 50 weapons obsolete. My characters got their starter legendary weapon at 45. It was a decent weapon by the time they hit level 50.

    The biggest issue is "Where is Turbine going to get the resources to deal with this issue?" The instance designers are all working on the next instance cluster. Or they are getting pulled from the new cluster to fix scripting and other problems with instances like Survivor Barrow Downs - School at Tham Mirdan - Draigoch to name three.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Jun 06 2013 at 11:17 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I do not agree about the stats on these items. All these teals should be restated to work with the existing game. For example, Auger is 38.5 DPS. The standard DPS for a level 50 Mirrored (teal) crafted one handed weapon is is 41.7. Auger has a lower DPS than the purple level 50s are which are 39.0 DPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Another question is how many people actually use non legendary weapons that run Card Dum. Mines of Moria made all these level 50 weapons obsolete. My characters got their starter legendary weapon at 45. It was a decent weapon by the time they hit level 50.

    I actually do agree about the stats. And yes, I am one of those who refuse to use legendary weapons in Angmar instances. If I would use all the new op items from scaled instances, I guess I could easliy reach more than 700 agility on my Lvl 50 Hunter. Do you think this adequate for level 50? Remember that this is even higher than what the cap was at SoM.

    If you really want to have the loot tables revamped, we also need to have the instances itself revamped. But not by making them faceroll easy (as this is what it usually means to "revamp"/"update"/"improve"/"make new" in lotro) but the other direction. Make them much harder!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eruadarion View Post
    Yes they come from boss kills, but no they DID changed the loot system here.

    In this video I made a few min ago, I have "master loot" activated but Helchgam is remote looted in the moment he
    Yes, I get this part. What I meant by them not updating the loot is that those bosses only drop exactly the teals you saw. That Uragarth boss will only drop that teal hat as a special drop. That is why each class doesn't get its own specific loot. Those bosses don't have teals for the other classes. It shouldn't bother people too much though. The updated loot, which they did with the scaled instances, is that those bosses just don't drop that stuff anymore. It is that vendor trash or the vendor trash every other normal mob drops.

    It would be nice if they would change them to unbound though.
    Last edited by Cirgellon; Jun 07 2013 at 12:10 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Yes, I get this part. What I meant by them not updating the loot is that those bosses only drop exactly the teals you saw. That Uragarth boss will only drop that teal hat as a special drop. That is why each class doesn't get its own specific loot. Those bosses don't have teals for the other classes. It shouldn't bother people too much though. The updated loot, which they did with the scaled instances, is that those bosses just don't drop that stuff anymore. It is that vendor trash or the vendor trash every other normal mob drops.

    It would be nice if they would change them to unbound though.
    Yes, that is correct. But it still bothers me! e.g. as a lvl 50 Hunter: if I want to get that dagger "Auger" from Helchgam. Depending on the group (and the existing Carn-Dum keys) it will take me at least some time to finally loot this pesky kraken. Well, now I see that the dagger was given to some runekeeper who will sell it for a few copper coins to the vendor. And even if I actually would be ready to run it a second time to give it another try, I won't be able because of the raid locks. And that is the problem here: the new loot system supports to grind the same instance over and over again. But this does not work in combination with the old loot tables (as you said: not an item for every class) or in combination with raid locks (which were once made to prevent this brainless neverending grind that is nowadays supported by Turbine in every way).

 

 

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