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  1. #26

    My Overall Response to it all

    First of all, great OP. A little complicated for my taste, but something of the sort needs to be implemented.
    Now my Thoughts:
    During the day in my kin(a primary raiding based kin, with a few casual players thrown in.) we usually run 6-mans. Sometimes we'll just throw the 3 GB's and OE and Glinghant, these are all short, usually sub 20min, mostly sub 10 if we have a warden who can pull half the instance at a time. These instances give us a fair amount seals depending on the run, 4 for sammy all the way up to ~10 with Glinghant. After a few runs we will usually throw some others in there, an HV, a bells, or an SG, a Fornost. These instances are all longer and more difficult to run, but most give more seals, ie around 10. However for us these are still somewhat of a face-roll, so we feel little to no challenge. Sometimes at night when we don't have enough for a raid we try the harder 6-mans, ie Sari-Suma, LT, Shadow. These are more difficult and actually give us a challenge, they may have not as many seals, or not give us any gear that we want, but there fun so we try them anyway.

    We the above in mind, here is my addition to your suggestion. Lets say in addition to the time factor they adjust it by difficulty, so even if there are some shorter runs that are still fairly difficult, ie Fornost, or Bells for example. These still would give more seals then say a similarly long run that is easier, ie sambrog or thadur) in addition, group size should also be taken as a factor: Disease Wing in OD(T2C) gives 4(?) seals, when Glinghant gives 10. IMO the more people in the group the more seals that should be given. Even in the above example, the raid gets 48 seals total in Disease, when the fellowship gets 60 in Glinghant (totals). Even if it isn't higher seals per player, it definitely needs higher seals per group.

    Tl;DR
    Great Threads
    2 Additions:
    1. More seals based on difficulty(not just time-investment)
    2. More Seals based on Group Size(4 for seals for a raid vs 10 seals in a 6-man? I think not!)
    Windfola:
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdalorTrailtamper View Post
    Great example, Lost Temple is a run which I would like to see run far more often, but the truth is, it only takes so long and seems so difficult because people don't run it, aren't familiar with what they have to pot when and where, and aren't familiar with the dangers and the damage they are presented with in the instance. If it was run more often, this would all be changed. I did Lost Temple just last night with my kin, for members who needed the deed to finish off their In Your Presence instance cluster deed. The run took us 20 minutes, and we facerolled the whole thing no deaths.

    We got 11 seals, in 20 minutes, compared to:

    School: 3 seals 7 minutes

    Sambrog: 3 seals 8 minutes

    If you look at the rewards to time completed, Lost temple is already more efficient for earning seals, but the implementation of the unified barter system turbine has used as a crutch causes it to gather digital dust


    I'm sure if we ran this more often we could streamline the time down very efficiently.

    If Lost Temple gave 30 seals, then instead of seeing LFM school farming, Sambrog farming, OE farming, all you would see is:

    LFM Lost Temple farming.

    The ideas I have outlined for reverting to a hybrid Cluster-Coin/Unified Barter system would fix this, require people to run all instances in a cluster, not just One or two.

    If turbine wants to continue this silly nonsense of farming one or two instances, they should offer single instances in the turbine store instead of clusters, because Why buy all of A cluster when you only run one instance
    Mmm...Sambrog gives at least 4 I thought, and only takes 5-6 minutes (if we're talking the same skill as would be required to run 20-minute LT reliably), so Sambrog still wins. And if LT rewarded 30 seals (not that I think that's necessarily a good number, was just throwing it out there) there would still be plenty of groups running Sambrog--people who couldn't beat LT, or people who don't have 20+ minutes to run an instance that isn't guaranteed not to wipe and take twice as long.

    But I'm not saying that time needs to be the only variable in reward. Challenge, as well.

    And LT is much more difficult than Sambrog. In Sambrog, you don't have to think about the difficulty of anything, or pay attention to when to take potions, or when to stand where and kill what.

    So if instances that took longer AND were more difficult got a reward boost, we could see a good variety of things run.

    And Turbine has both the means of gathering data on what is being run, and the ability to change rewards without a hotfix. So it would just be a matter of raising reward for stuff that isn't being run until stuff is being run.

    But this isn't important to them, since players have shown since Moria that they're not at all affected by having a variety of things to do--whatever is most rewarding based on time and effort is what gets run, everything else will get run only if necessary. They don't need to make all these huge and expensive changes when they're already getting the desired response from players with minimal effort expended. It's the same reason why they're reluctant to put a lot of time and effort into new instances--they know we'll play 1 incessantly if it has the rewards. If they put all the best L95 rewards in the old BG 6-man and didn't make or scale a single new instance in HD, we'd see the same farming as Sambrog gets now. Because not enough people care to justify new group content development. Group players are not as profitable as solo players, and it's all about WB's bottom line anymore.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan583 View Post
    Great Threads
    2 Additions:
    1. More seals based on difficulty(not just time-investment)
    2. More Seals based on Group Size(4 for seals for a raid vs 10 seals in a 6-man? I think not!)
    I don't think that raids necessarily need to reward more seals, especially if their goal is to get us to run more of a variety (if they can). Raids have other rewards--exclusive recipes and barter coins, and 1st Age symbols as well. People would run them if they gave zero seals.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Mmm...Sambrog gives at least 4 I thought, and only takes 5-6 minutes (if we're talking the same skill as would be required to run 20-minute LT reliably), so Sambrog still wins. And if LT rewarded 30 seals (not that I think that's necessarily a good number, was just throwing it out there) there would still be plenty of groups running Sambrog--people who couldn't beat LT, or people who don't have 20+ minutes to run an instance that isn't guaranteed not to wipe and take twice as long.
    Sambrog gives 3 seals, unless it is buffed by the instance finder by including 5 6 man instances, for instance OE, Gling, Sam, Thadur, and Maze - No one does this, and if they do, that means they clearly have more than 20 minutes and are willing to take on instances with a variety of difficulty. Still, there is no way to guarantee the instance chosen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    And LT is much more difficult than Sambrog. In Sambrog, you don't have to think about the difficulty of anything, or pay attention to when to take potions, or when to stand where and kill what.
    This has already been addressed, the fact that everyone runs Sambrog, everyone knows how to do it. If more people ran LT, more people would know how to do it, and it would be just as easy. It is an incredibly easy instance to do if everyone knows how to do it, which is the case for 90% of instances. Challenge is determined in MMO by knowledge of content, things that seem difficult are suddenly crystal clear and easy once everyone involved knows the mechanic.

    This thread is not about specific instances, discussing mechanic or nitpicking which gives the best rewards, this thread is about a revamp to the instance system, any instances mentioned in the OP are used as examples based on relevance to the plan I have outlined

    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    So if instances that took longer AND were more difficult got a reward boost, we could see a good variety of things run.
    This has also been addressed, if all the content gives the same currency, the one that gives the most/time/difficulty will be farmed. FACT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    But this isn't important to them, since players have shown since Moria that they're not at all affected by having a variety of things to do--whatever is most rewarding based on time and effort is what gets run, everything else will get run only if necessary. They don't need to make all these huge and expensive changes when they're already getting the desired response from players with minimal effort expended. It's the same reason why they're reluctant to put a lot of time and effort into new instances--they know we'll play 1 incessantly if it has the rewards. If they put all the best L95 rewards in the old BG 6-man and didn't make or scale a single new instance in HD, we'd see the same farming as Sambrog gets now. Because not enough people care to justify new group content development. Group players are not as profitable as solo players, and it's all about WB's bottom line anymore.
    Basically everything in this part of your post is saying: "It is how it is, just deal with it, turbine doesn't care, why should you."

    Overall, though I disagree with most of what is typed here, it proves the point that instancing is in a sad spot and needs a revamp.

    This is not constructive criticism or suggestions, I'd ask that you not try to further derail this thread. I'd love to read your suggestions or criticisms, as I've stated. Your post has contained neither. Please keep further posts on track, as this thread is making very positive progress, and I would hate to have to start all over.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    I don't think that raids necessarily need to reward more seals, especially if their goal is to get us to run more of a variety (if they can). Raids have other rewards--exclusive recipes and barter coins, and 1st Age symbols as well. People would run them if they gave zero seals.
    This post is neither constructive criticism to the outlined plan in the OP, or creative suggestions, keep it on track please.
    Last edited by EdalorTrailtamper; May 26 2013 at 05:24 AM.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  6. #31
    People might run other instances if Turbine had a loot lock on instances (say 1x/hour or 1x/day) and a chest that was Master Lootable with a guaranteed teal item and a better chance at a barter item for a class item.

    Kind of what they used to have, instead they've decided to substitute luck for a reasonable looting system.

    As a previous poster noted, your idea might be a reasonable grind for those who are only gearing one toon, for those with multiple toons it nears the grind we have today and a reason why many have given up on the game altogether.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Namesse View Post
    As a previous poster noted, your idea might be a reasonable grind for those who are only gearing one toon, for those with multiple toons it nears the grind we have today and a reason why many have given up on the game altogether.
    Stands to reason that like all unified currency and instance medallions (Moria/Loth/DG) These medallions would be account shared. So, no I don't see how this would be a acceptable for those who have one toon but a grind for those who are altoholics.

    To the contrary, I think this system would benefit those with alts far more than those who only have one toon. with the current loot system, people with one toon grind all the instances and get the golds with a much higher success rate. Those who are doing the instances on different toons based on group need or what they feel like playing have an incredibly low chance at recieving the item they desire.

    I have one of every class at 85, and 2 hunters, all decently geared at least well enough to do t2 flight/bfe/smaug. I don't expect for one second that each toon should have every gold item available.

    out of my 10 level 85s, farming instance after instance for months on end, I have acquired one gold item, a Healing ring on my least played alt (runekeeper) which I only use for fire dps. My main and most often played alts have not won a single gold item, or rare teal for that matter.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdalorTrailtamper View Post
    Sambrog gives 3 seals, unless it is buffed by the instance finder by including 5 6 man instances, for instance OE, Gling, Sam, Thadur, and Maze - No one does this, and if they do, that means they clearly have more than 20 minutes and are willing to take on instances with a variety of difficulty. Still, there is no way to guarantee the instance chosen.
    You can use the instance finder and pick a specific instance and get currency buffs. Do your homework.


    This has already been addressed, the fact that everyone runs Sambrog, everyone knows how to do it. If more people ran LT, more people would know how to do it, and it would be just as easy. It is an incredibly easy instance to do if everyone knows how to do it, which is the case for 90% of instances. Challenge is determined in MMO by knowledge of content, things that seem difficult are suddenly crystal clear and easy once everyone involved knows the mechanic.
    You addressed it, I just think you're wrong. LT is harder than Sambrog no matter how many times you run it. There are plenty of players in this game incapable of completing challenge on LT who are more than able to complete Sambrog.

    This has also been addressed, if all the content gives the same currency, the one that gives the most/time/difficulty will be farmed. FACT.
    Great. Which is why my suggestion is to use their data on which instances get run to adjust the reward. Make it a little more unclear which is the best instance to run. Make it so that all instances are more or less worth the same, relative to time and difficulty, so that there's no reason to pick just one.


    Basically everything in this part of your post is saying: "It is how it is, just deal with it, turbine doesn't care, why should you."
    My post is saying there is a better way to get a variety of instances run than going back to a convoluted system that they've been *actively and purposely been working away from*. Don't get snippy just because I don't grovel and tell you how amazing your idea is just because you spent 10 minutes writing a forum post.

    This is not constructive criticism or suggestions, I'd ask that you not try to further derail this thread. I'd love to read your suggestions or criticisms, as I've stated. Your post has contained neither. Please keep further posts on track, as this thread is making very positive progress, and I would hate to have to start all over.
    Mmm...nah. I'll go ahead and state my opinion.

    My opinion is that your idea is far too complex to even be considered by Turbine. And another one of my opinions is that Turbine is currently getting exactly the kind of behavior they're wanting from instances--people farming non-stop for gear, regardless of whether it's any fun or not. All while putting minimum time, money, and effort into instances.

    So my idea, like it or not, is for Turbine to do a tiny bit of research and adjust instance rewards to reflect time required to run it and the difficulty of doing so. No new technology, currency, barter vendors, or systems needed.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdalorTrailtamper View Post
    This post is neither constructive criticism to the outlined plan in the OP, or creative suggestions, keep it on track please.
    You're new to the internet, aren't you.

    My post was a direct response to a poster in this thread, directly on the subject of his post. If you don't want to deal with people who disagree with you, find a different medium.
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  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    You can use the instance finder and pick a specific instance and get currency buffs. Do your homework.
    Wrong. As you suggested to me, I suggest that you do your homework. For an instance that gives 3 seals un-buffed, you need a currency buff of 33% or higher to earn 4 seals from the instance, to do this you have to include 5 instances in the randomization process, if you just pick sambrog, you get 15% currency earnings (more marks and medallions but still 3 seals)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post

    Mmm...nah. I'll go ahead and state my opinion.

    My opinion is that your idea is far too complex to even be considered by Turbine. And another one of my opinions is that Turbine is currently getting exactly the kind of behavior they're wanting from instances--people farming non-stop for gear, regardless of whether it's any fun or not. All while putting minimum time, money, and effort into instances.

    So my idea, like it or not, is for Turbine to do a tiny bit of research and adjust instance rewards to reflect time required to run it and the difficulty of doing so. No new technology, currency, barter vendors, or systems needed.
    Although presented in a negative fashion, this is a valid suggestion and voicing of opinion that follows with what I asked from the beginning of the post. constructive criticism or creative suggestions. Thank you, your point is one that quite a few people share, and definitely one that is valid.
    Last edited by EdalorTrailtamper; May 27 2013 at 04:22 AM.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    You're new to the internet, aren't you.

    My post was a direct response to a poster in this thread, directly on the subject of his post. If you don't want to deal with people who disagree with you, find a different medium.
    I am inviting those who disagree with me regarding the OP, not replies to the OP, to voice their opinions in the form of constructive criticism or creative suggestions, as I asked in the OP.

    I do look forward to hearing your suggestions, assuming the increase in currency would be enough to encourage running a variety of instances, how do you feel about the drop chances of teal/gold loot, do you have any ideas to improve the grind?
    Last edited by EdalorTrailtamper; May 27 2013 at 04:34 AM.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by EdalorTrailtamper View Post
    ...how do you feel about the drop chances of teal/gold loot, do you have any ideas to improve the grind?
    To improve the loot grind, they must first increase difficulty of t2/t2c instances across the board. Give classic instances a challenge mode that is truly challenging again. If they don't they shouldn't even bother wasting time to scale instances.

    If they do increase difficulty of t2c instances, then the instances will take longer to do, give satisfaction upon completion, and can allow a more generous reward chance.

    Or they could gate gold items behind a vendor that requires a large amount of seals and instance-specific currency. For example, annuminas champ bracelet barter for 300 seals, 10 ost elendil medallions, 10 glinghant medallions, and 10 vauhd halandil medallions.


    But they shouldn't just improve the chance for sambrog gold items if it can get done in 6 minutes.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    To improve the loot grind, they must first increase difficulty of t2/t2c instances across the board. Give classic instances a challenge mode that is truly challenging again. If they don't they shouldn't even bother wasting time to scale instances.

    If they do increase difficulty of t2c instances, then the instances will take longer to do, give satisfaction upon completion, and can allow a more generous reward chance.

    Or they could gate gold items behind a vendor that requires a large amount of seals and instance-specific currency. For example, annuminas champ bracelet barter for 300 seals, 10 ost elendil medallions, 10 glinghant medallions, and 10 vauhd halandil medallions.


    But they shouldn't just improve the chance for sambrog gold items if it can get done in 6 minutes.
    I agree with this 100% I wish instances were challenging enough that the drop rates could be high to guaranteed, and the missing variable to whether or not you acquire the loot is if you are able to down the instance or not.

    Also, what you suggested using Annuminas instances as an example is exactly what I was thinking, and posted about 3/4 of the way down in the OP, The only difference is I feel like it should take more medallions for the farmy instances and less for the longer more difficult instances, so, for instance 50 OE medallions, 35 Glinghant medallions, 15 HV medallions, or something of that sort. ( all depends on how many medallions you get each run, in the OP I used 5 per run as an example, but 1 medallion per run would be the same idea, just scaled down.)
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  14. #39
    Something I can't believe I forgot to bring up in the OP, and would like some input on, is cooldowns on quests in instances.

    Ever since they removed dailies/weeklies/twice a week quests in instances, the farming has increased. But at the same time, cool downs on instance quests did always annoy me.. So I'm kinda torn about how I would feel if some sort of cool down was re-implemented.

    Maybe if it was just an hour CD or 6 hour CD (resetting 4 times a day) we would see less farming and more of an instance variety being run, who knows

    Any thoughts?
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  15. #40
    + rep for the OP. I like his idea.

    Another way to decrease the grind woud be, to implement the instance counter in the loot system, thus increasing the dropcance of a golden class item with the ammount of succsessfull runs, resetting the count by a golden drop.

    While this woud not increase the variety of instances, like the OPs suggestion, it woud at least create a silver lining for those frustrated by the grind and luck based loot system.
    lvl 85 lm (main), lvl 85 champ, lvl 85 rk, lvl 85 hunter, lvl 85 minni

  16. #41
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    The OP reminded me of how endgame instances were handled in Star Wars Galaxies -- a system that ensured groups were regularly running ALL (ok, so there were only 4) of the instances on a daily basis. It rewarded the dedicated player and not just the extremely lucky -

    The endgame rewards were items in a jewelry set, each piece requiring tokens from 3 (or was it all 4?) of the available instances. The amount of tokens from each rotated by piece, totalling the same number of each token by the time you had the whole set. Thusly:

    Bracelet -
    15 Token A
    10 Token B
    5 Token C

    Necklace -
    15 Token B
    10 Token C
    5 Token D

    ..and so on. The results spoke for themselves - groups would routinely form to run all the instances in rotation. If you completed 4 runs, you walked away with 4 tokens. Guaranteed.

    After a while it seemed grindy, but it was crystal-clear what you were getting yourself in for. Yes, there was bonus loot that dropped rarely, but you NEVER walked away with the sinking feeling that you had achieved nothing. You were a definite increment closer to your goal.
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  17. #42
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    Personally, I do not belive that new currencies are needed to solve the Instance Farming problems. I think tuning the rewards to scale against instance difficulty and average run time would result in less repetitive farming.

    Also, many of the instances should have their difficulty increased significantly. These runs would be much more tolerable if they were in any way challenging. A series of chain-pulls of trash followed by a DPS zerg on the boss is BORING no matter what the reward scheme is.

    Trouble is, historically Turbine has displayed neither the interest nor the ability to balance instance rewards and difficulty.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdalorTrailtamper View Post
    I am inviting those who disagree with me regarding the OP, not replies to the OP, to voice their opinions in the form of constructive criticism or creative suggestions, as I asked in the OP.
    As long as peoples posts conform to the TOS, trying to control a thread is doomed to failure. Just because you started a thread and made requests doesn't obligate anyone to follow them. Just tends to make folks irate, IMHO...

    As to the topic, I totally agree with the problem. The incentive system in the game is way screwed up, and there should be comparable rewards for comparable time/difficulty instances. Otherwise yes, people get channeled into the current path of least resistance. Running school/lib for the 500th time gets old. That seems to go against a Turbine goal of having a variety of desirable repeatable content to keep people who spend lots of time in game engaged/interested.

    My proposed solution would be some sort of automatic self-correcting system. Less frequently succesfully run content (based on opening boss chest) would get "bonus" rewards -- there could be some sort of indication in the instance finder about the current bonus. The advantage of such an self-correcting system is that little or no Turbine intervention is needed. If 85% (for example) of the people doing 6 mans are currently running sambrog, the other 6 mans could get increasing bonuses to run them until the situation is rectified. Bonuses could be set daily based on a 1 week rolling average or some such. This feels nicer to me than trying to force people to run instances they don't find fun (or are too hard), but at the same time encourages folks to go off the beaten track and run something different.

  19. #44
    i agree

  20. #45
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    I love this idea. I would have no problem working for something that I truly desire instead of relying on luck to give me helping hand. I have all but given up after countless runs without getting a gold item or any good jewelry. Literately, I would do dozens of runs a day without even a teal drop. It got to be really frustrating and disheartening when people you run with get their 4th golden cloak and you get zilch.
    Last edited by 4u2nv; Jun 06 2013 at 10:45 AM.
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  21. #46
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    This is too good of an idea for Turbine to implement.

    If somehow they do do something like this...it may be one of the few ways that my faith in Turbine could be restored.
    Last edited by SuperCoolGuy23; Jun 05 2013 at 06:38 PM.

  22. #47
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    i think the loot should just be balanced more, some instances take 10 mins the most... don't expect than a guaranteed drop... but an instance that takes over an hour to complete should give you a guaranteed drop... (for one of the classes...)

    think the problem is that GB for instance just is so easy that you easily run 5 an hour, imagine the drops and economy if you would have guaranteed drops... i think in this case it would be nice to have lowerr drops... just not as low as they are now...
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  23. #48
    I think the OP has a good idea, and it's what Turbine should have done in the first place when they introduced the Moria Medallions. Personally, I prefer the pre-Moria Medallion system, but that's a whole can of worms. I understand the concern that someone could theoretically run HoC 100 times and never get his anvil. So the idea that at some point, once someone has run HoC X times, they can just turn in a bunch of tokens to get the anvil makes sense. But this should be a Plan B. The idea that each instance has it's own benefits has been lost.

    That said, Turbine made a conscious decision to move towards generic tokens dropping everywhere, and I don't see that changing. I think it's more realistic to hope that they figure out that 1 run of LT = 8 runs of Sambrog so LT awards 8x the number of seals.

    There's a lot of back and forth here and I think they are all good suggestions. I think everyone is in agreement that the current situation is a mess. And it's not just the loot debacle. The Moria instances helped work on rep, had instance-specific slayer deeds, helped with regional slayer deeds and also had the class quests. Ditto for CD/Uru. Before we even get to the loot issue, I think some of these changes need to be re-examined. I guess the idea was to increase the grind, but Turbine has gone way overboard. Everyone understands that there has to be some grind because of the reality that content can't be created as fast as the customers will consume it. However, the idea is to find the sweet spot between so little grind that "there's nothing to do" and so much grind that "there's no point in doing it." Turbine has gone way, way overboard in the direction of "there's no point in doing it" and then some.

    So it's not just the loot, although it's certainly the single biggest aspect. The overarching problem is that the game is not sustainable if it just becomes one or two instances farmed ad nauseum. I'm sure it look great according to whatever metric some bean counter is using. But it's like a diet of nothing but potato chips. It's quick, easy and tastes good, but it ain't gonna last.

    There has to be some incentive for people to run LT, or people aren't going to run LT. It is truly baffling why Turbine does not get this. It either has to have a realistic chance of dropping unique loot, give proportionately more seals based upon difficulty and time, or give instance-specific tokens that can be redeemed for unique loot. The current situation is so nonsensical it really seems like LOTRO has just become a testing ground for crazy ideas they're thinking about trying in other games.

    This issue really is the proverbial straw, but either Turbine doesn't get it or they think Hobbit presents will make up for it. Complete cluelessness either way.

  24. #49
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    Scroll down for tl;dr.

    First of all, I agree with OP.

    Two days before my VIP expired, I tried out a level 20 Inn of the Forsaken on my Hunter, and it blew me away.
    I went to solo Carn Dûm (but ended up duoing anyway), and I was amazed how amazing a 6-man instance can be.
    Before my 1-month VIP, I found myself in Angmar and decided to visit the Rift, and it gave me the thought, "This is what end-game should be like!"
    Later, during my VIP, I somehow landed myself into a 6-man Rift group (4 at first; my PC crashed when I reached the end), and I had lots of fun in there.

    What I want to say is that there are many fun instances left behind, forgotten. Such system would really encourage people to run instances (that, or give up on the gear and find alternatives - eg: Watcher). Especially the fun instances. At least make the interesting ones (ie, take more time to finish) give significantly better loot as mentioned above. If they don't, people are going to stick with Sambrog and Eregion. If they don't take action about it, why bother with making new ins- oh wait, they aren't bothering already. Look at the Erebor cluster.

    I see three major groups of people at the moment: the ones who doesn't really care and accept the grind, the ones who are fed up and are ranting/have left the game, and the ones who are in the middle.
    The first group doesn't really bother with the fun instances anymore, and a quote from a goblin in Goblin-town popped into my head, "I digs, 'cause that's what it does." I can't remember the exact quote, but in my mind, it changed "digs" into "grinds", and in my head there are people who are simply grinding, grinding, grinding, again and again.
    Grinding never seemed fun to me, and I suppose it is not the same for them. Though they grind anyway, for shiny gear and gold weapons seem to be have the upper hand and are forcing them to grind, against their "this is boring" thoughts.

    And on grinding, there's the RNG.
    Some guy told me that the other day, some Hunter got 2 Relic-robber's Bracelet (teal agility bracelet from Glinghant) in a row, as well as crystal(s), perhaps even more, but I forgot what else had he told me.
    On the other hand, there is a Champion on my server who runs Sambrog every day, though he still hasn't received his gold drop (that or I haven't inspected him for a long time).
    ITA and Fornost drop rates are horrendous. At least ITA drop purple gear once in a while, but I think Fornost is worse than ITA (I am really unsure about this, I've only run Fornost twice during my VIP (too bad, I want the teal/gold agility earring(s) from Fornost) and nobody got any gear; Fornost gear is rare on AH (though I see people with teal/purple earrings from Fornost every now and then, lucky folks) and if they are on AH, even purple gear sells for a handful compared to other purple gear).

    A suggestion comes to my mind on the RNG every now and then.
    The initial chance for you to get item X is lower than it is supposed to be. Every time you did not gear item X, the chance for it to drop for you increases. If it drops, the chance resets (yes, I got that idea from another game).

    I suppose I got carried away and my whole post could be cut down into one sentence, the second paragraph.
    But come to think of it, will Turbine really revamp all these instances? Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling people to just deal with it and proceed on with crashes and instance-grinding. I truly wish that most of the grind would go away, but seeing many posts about how Turbine doesn't care and how the game is going downhill, it dampened my hopes on how Turbine would take action.

    From Turbine's point of view, I predict two points.
    1. We're so hard-pressed by WB we just can't delay Helm's Deep like what we did with RoR. Oh but we do bring something new and interesting. Apart from new content, we visit old stuff too! Look at Bree, everybody loves the new Bree. Oh instances? We'll get there... er, Soon(™).
    2. All those currencies are so confusing for itemization developers. Medium armour with might is annoying. Heavy armour with will is annoying. Why not make things easier both for us and for the players? What's wrong with coin and skirmish currencies? Oh and those without the premium wallet! Oh poor things, they just can't hold all those medallions (limes-guy.jpg)! Of course we can put the new tokens into the regular wallet for free, but *shrug* the premium wallet do make people pay a lot of TP to us...

    Okay, I admit I am exaggerating. But those are based on my observations - roughly one expansion per year, the changes it brought to the game and so on, WB seems to be pressing hard on Turbine to squeeze as much money from Turbine as it can.

    Another, more unlikely to achieve, suggestion:
    What WB (seems to) fail to see is that by rushing Turbine on everything, they're losing money. What they should do is to make an investment. Invest more money (more employees, more resources) onto Turbine. Give them more time to create stuff. Quality stuff. That way, more people would come and play. It's a win-win situation. WB eventually makes more money, and players are happy (but fix the memory leaks and reduce the grind).

    Congratulations, you've finally reached the tl;dr part.
    Tl;dr:
    • First of all, I apologize for the wall of text. I haven't done that in a while and my fingers lost control.
    • I support OP's suggestion. Others' too, like increasing the rewards for instances that take longer to complete.
    • Though Turbine may not be bringing all the good suggestions above/below this crummy, lengthy post into the game, I do hope they will, step by step.
    • Buff the RNG - as in increasing drop rate for stuff, not to decrease.
    [COLOR="#669966"][center][size=1]Mildford - R9 Hunter • Support - R7 LM
    The Storm Crusaders • Gladden[/size][/center][/COLOR]

  25. #50
    I like some of the suggestions I'm seeing here folks, Keep it up, hopefully with enough attention we might see some change.

    You don't have to agree with everything in the OP, but if you at least agree that endgame grouping is in a terrible place, please, keep bumping this post, revisit it daily, the more views and replies, the higher the chance it might affect change.

    One thing I want to reiterate, is that this post is only about the &&&&&& loot system as a secondary issue, I understand people are all in the same boat, running instances over and over to get their golds. But the primary issue I'm concerned with, that is really causing people to leave the game, is the lack of variety, lack of incentive to run a variety of instances in each cluster, rather than just the fastest/easiest.

    I think Turbine/WB owe us a response on this thread, it's been here long enough, and this is not a new issue. The sooner they wake up and realize that they have the license for the most popular fantasy franchise of all time, and are wasting it in this fashion, the sooner we might see a revitalization of the game, and a spike in the player base.

    I am really losing faith here. And this is coming from a 6 year player who plays no other games whatsoever... This is the only game I play, the only thing I care about, I'll stick around until there is absolutely no hope left. And I have to admit, I'm getting there.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

 

 
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