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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Content 'Forecast', are we in for a drought?

    So, any speculation on what (if any) sort of raid or instance content we can look forward to with Helm's Deep? I expect this forum to become very quiet after the next couple months. Myself, and many people I know, have moved on to different games because it's looking like the raid community might be outright abandoned soon. If the most 'meaningful' content we get is the (possible) session-play business for level 10+, I can't say I'd be too motivated to stick around. Or maybe we can expect a month wait on an underdeveloped instance cluster again? Whatever happens, I hope Turbine makes the right choice and picks up the ball or they could be losing many paying customers in the near future.
    [center]RIP Character signature generator, June 2013.[/center]
    [center]Theiol, Fervar, Turthonn, and Vanka, [i]retired LOTRO[/i]|Croue, Folter, [i]Rift - Shatterbone shard[/i][/center]

  2. #2
    My personal opinion as always.

    I expect that the Helms Deep Instance Cluster will not be included in the purchase of the Helms Deep expansion. It will not be available when the expansion launches. Instead the Instance Cluster will be a seperate purchase that is released the Update after the expansion launches.

    Neither Rise of Isengard or Riders of Rohan launched with their Instance Clusters.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NJ
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    711
    I think the new raids will have to better. I seem to recall that JWB had said (press? podcast? don't recall) from late last year or early this year that a lot of resources went into developing mounted combat which took away from the raids. Since mounted combat is in place, resources are going back to the raids.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    I think the new raids will have to better. I seem to recall that JWB had said (press? podcast? don't recall) from late last year or early this year that a lot of resources went into developing mounted combat which took away from the raids. Since mounted combat is in place, resources are going back to the raids.
    Barry was building Hytbold which is why he wasn't focused on the Erebor raids, which is why they are incredibly subpar. Barry isn't working on instances and raids now either. He's working on "The Helms Deep Experience" which I expect to be Hytbold 2.0 with level 10 toons. He has specifically stated that they won't work on new instances and raids until Helms Deep is complete. That tells me that new raids are a long way off.

  5. #5
    burn me at the stakes for saying it, but I am to the point where I'd pay extra to have quality group content released in a timely matter.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    515
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    burn me at the stakes for saying it, but I am to the point where I'd pay extra to have quality group content released in a timely matter.
    I think that is the path Turbine is going to go down. Raid content takes up a huge amount of dev time and resources and too few players actually make use of it. Rather than make the bulk of players pay for content they never use, I'm expecting Turbine to divorce the raids from expansion packs altogether and make them a separate purchase and/or part of VIP to put the onus on the raiding playerbase to subsidize their playstyle.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sthrax View Post
    Rather than make the bulk of players pay for content they never use, I'm expecting Turbine to divorce the raids from expansion packs altogether and make them a separate purchase and/or part of VIP to put the onus on the raiding playerbase to subsidize their playstyle.
    Exactly, because we see how much being VIP for freeps or buying from the store for creeps has increased Turbine's investment in PvMP.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    Exactly, because we see how much being VIP for freeps or buying from the store for creeps has increased Turbine's investment in PvMP.
    the optimist in me hopes all that revenue went into developing mounted combat and all the changes recently and since that's all done with they'll move onto their regular programming. The pessimist in me sees some big wig with lots of cash in his pocket cutting numbers in Barry's department.

    I think a separate purchase would require a better product, since the increased revenue would give turbine more incentive to spend resources for it.
    Last edited by mrfigglesworth; May 21 2013 at 05:13 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    burn me at the stakes for saying it, but I am to the point where I'd pay extra to have quality group content released in a timely matter.
    I really think Turbine is going to split the delivery into a solo offering and a group offering that has the instances.

    People who like instances will have to buy them. The quality and amount of group content will determined by how many dollars Turbine collects from the sale of their instance content. I fully believe that groupers will get an opportunity to back up their comments how many and how important they are with dollars.

    It would be nice if Turbine considered implementing a rental program where you could get a day or week pass. Swtor has a pass program.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Mostly Middle Earth
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    735
    Despite being VIP and purchasing all the expansions so far (with real cash not TP), I would still be willing to pay extra for a decent instance pack if one was to be made available.
    Hopefully whenever (if) the instances are released they will be as usual free for VIP or for purchases of the full expansions (and not just the quest pack if one is released), but if the content was worth it then I'd buy it.
    I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone here.
    Last edited by Grapold; May 21 2013 at 07:53 PM.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Greece
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    Even if they do release a instance cluster later on at some point ( 2014 at best imo )
    i doubt many group players will be left in the game to care about it.

    And if they charge it separately it will be even worse , since charging for something that used to be 'free' for years does not sound good , at least to me.
    There is also another problem , i don't trust the current dev team at all , not since RoR.
    I don't think they can release something well-tested , well-thought and challenging anymore.
    Last time that happened was OD imo , a long time has passed since then and i guess priorities have changed along with Turbine staff.

    If some miracle happened and they managed to release something truly epic , including a lot of side way fixes like loot-chances, drops,mechanics , then perhaps i would think about it.And i am not only referring to raids , i am also talking about 6-mans , 3-mans etc.

    There is another thing though , would my kin-mates/friends etc pay for it as well ?
    They need to convince a lot of people here , because it's not like most players will have access to instances any more...

    Will there be enough players to even do the content ?

    PS. I hate the fact that - in their own silent tricksy way - let us think that we might have to pay twice for things that every other game offers in 1 price.And it's not like we are talking about the top quality stuff here historically :-)
    Last edited by BotLike; May 21 2013 at 09:10 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,405
    VIPs, please stop offering to pay extra for instance clusters.

    Remember one of the many (broken) promises during the F2P transition, specifically the one saying that our VIP experience wouldn't change?

    I'd certainly classify "having to pay for a non-expansion content update" as a change, and a significant one at that.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Lestache View Post
    VIPs, please stop offering to pay extra for instance clusters.

    Remember one of the many (broken) promises during the F2P transition, specifically the one saying that our VIP experience wouldn't change?

    I'd certainly classify "having to pay for a non-expansion content update" as a change, and a significant one at that.
    This should be repeated over and over.
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Massachusetts
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    579
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Even if they do release a instance cluster later on at some point ( 2014 at best imo )
    i doubt many group players will be left in the game to care about it.

    And if they charge it separately it will be even worse , since charging for something that used to be 'free' for years does not sound good , at least to me.
    There is also another problem , i don't trust the current dev team at all , not since RoR.
    I don't think they can release something well-tested , well-thought and challenging anymore.
    Last time that happened was OD imo , a long time has passed since then and i guess priorities have changed along with Turbine staff.

    If some miracle happened and they managed to release something truly epic , including a lot of side way fixes like loot-chances, drops,mechanics , then perhaps i would think about it.And i am not only referring to raids , i am also talking about 6-mans , 3-mans etc.

    There is another thing though , would my kin-mates/friends etc pay for it as well ?
    They need to convince a lot of people here , because it's not like most players will have access to instances any more...

    Will there be enough players to even do the content ?

    PS. I hate the fact that - in their own silent tricksy way - let us think that we might have to pay twice for things that every other game offers in 1 price.And it's not like we are talking about the top quality stuff here historically :-)
    The group players that were left (the ones in my kin) have seen the Helm's Deep announcement and seen less and less group content with each release aside from ITA (the last update to offer any significant group content). After being a subscriber of this game for well over 3 years. This week I finally said no more. How can I support a product that designs things like hobbit presents, wastes time on mounted combat revamps and just ignores it's playerbase?

    For the first time in 3 years I'm looking at new MMO's and sadly alot of them are going the same route as LOTRO. A total Zyngafaction of the genre. Every MMO (maybe aside from Rift) is getting what I like to call a major dumbing down. They are doing this to attract a broader audience in order to make money. I'm sure there are alot of people out there like me that would spend 40 to 60 dollars on a really good mmo then pay between 10-15$ a month to go back to the classic format of the genre.

    The ADD generation has sadly taken over all the good games.
    1. I do not want to have to interact with other human beings and work together as a team
    2. I would rather have a dungeon take 8 minutes and get no reward then get one that take 40 mins and offers some reward.

    Then there's the entitled:
    1. I should be able to get any reward by any means "I" choose.
    2. They should make the game more "insert term (generally solo)" friendly.

    I know everyone hates warcraft but when I think what I want in an MMO I always come back to it's early format:
    1. Quest to level 17
    2. After level 17 if I wanna run dungeons instead of doing solo quests I can.
    Wow offered solo questing and group instances every 2 to 3 levels.
    Sadly that game is a shadow of itself. Since it opened itself up to Panda bears and a major dumbing down that offers no individual characteristics between specing options (that happened during Cataclysm)

    I have no clue what to play now. Alot of people are saying Rift. But I've never been a big PVP'er. I've been playing this game so long I have no clue what's out there.

    It's rather sad that I now have to walk away but this is the way it is.
    What is it the trolls say?
    bad game=bad game

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    712
    Quote Originally Posted by Lestache View Post
    VIPs, please stop offering to pay extra for instance clusters.

    Remember one of the many (broken) promises during the F2P transition, specifically the one saying that our VIP experience wouldn't change?

    I'd certainly classify "having to pay for a non-expansion content update" as a change, and a significant one at that.
    Yes, stop offering to pay for what the subscription should be for.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    I think the new raids will have to better. I seem to recall that JWB had said (press? podcast? don't recall) from late last year or early this year that a lot of resources went into developing mounted combat which took away from the raids. Since mounted combat is in place, resources are going back to the raids.
    This is way more optimistic than what we see lately, which is that resources are being pulled away from the game. Note that they didn't have time to convert the spring leaves into the standard fest currency - how does that sound?

    I think the new instances will be part of the expansion, after all, because otherwise it will be very shameful. Asking for additional money for the IC means it has to be of higher quality than the recent one. But who is going to buy it? By that time few raiders will be left in the game. Therefore the IC will probably be something simple and quickly built 'from the scrap' like the last one, and hence it should be included in the expansion. Trying to sell nothing for money (like with the 'hobby horse') won't work.
    The IC - bad or good - has always been part of the expansion and braking this tradition will be a bad move imo. And they already unsuccessfully tried to step on that thin rope, even if 'by accident'.

  17. #17
    Have a look at the current status of Draigoch: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...1-Draigoch-bug

    Now have a look to see if it is still available for sale in the store...

    Now tell me that paying for raids as separate content will lead to better quality!
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    Yes, stop offering to pay for what the subscription should be for.
    i'm willing to bet a lot of f2p players pay a bunch more per month than I do as VIP. They went to f2p model for a reason.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    The group players that were left (the ones in my kin) have seen the Helm's Deep announcement and seen less and less group content with each release aside from ITA (the last update to offer any significant group content). After being a subscriber of this game for well over 3 years. This week I finally said no more. How can I support a product that designs things like hobbit presents, wastes time on mounted combat revamps and just ignores it's playerbase?

    For the first time in 3 years I'm looking at new MMO's and sadly alot of them are going the same route as LOTRO. A total Zyngafaction of the genre. Every MMO (maybe aside from Rift) is getting what I like to call a major dumbing down. They are doing this to attract a broader audience in order to make money. I'm sure there are alot of people out there like me that would spend 40 to 60 dollars on a really good mmo then pay between 10-15$ a month to go back to the classic format of the genre.

    The ADD generation has sadly taken over all the good games.
    1. I do not want to have to interact with other human beings and work together as a team
    2. I would rather have a dungeon take 8 minutes and get no reward then get one that take 40 mins and offers some reward.

    Then there's the entitled:
    1. I should be able to get any reward by any means "I" choose.
    2. They should make the game more "insert term (generally solo)" friendly.

    I know everyone hates warcraft but when I think what I want in an MMO I always come back to it's early format:
    1. Quest to level 17
    2. After level 17 if I wanna run dungeons instead of doing solo quests I can.
    Wow offered solo questing and group instances every 2 to 3 levels.
    Sadly that game is a shadow of itself. Since it opened itself up to Panda bears and a major dumbing down that offers no individual characteristics between specing options (that happened during Cataclysm)

    I have no clue what to play now. Alot of people are saying Rift. But I've never been a big PVP'er. I've been playing this game so long I have no clue what's out there.

    It's rather sad that I now have to walk away but this is the way it is.
    What is it the trolls say?
    bad game=bad game
    You seem to be in the same boat as myself. Luckily, there is something coming out in a few months that I played the beta for a few weeks ago and for the first time in a very long time, I am actually excited for a game release. The game I am talking about is final fantasy 14: a realm reborn (I played ff14 when it first came out and it was terrible, but the new release for it is very impressive). So I would suggest sticking with this game for another few months (if you are at least enjoying your time in the game) and then when that game comes out, give it a shot. After a few months of that, the expansion of this game will be out and you can read about it and decide if you want to come back to it (or you can play both). Anyway, I know it seems a bit dim right now, but luckily things are going to brighten up in the mmo world in a few months.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    I have no clue what to play now. Alot of people are saying Rift. But I've never been a big PVP'er.
    RIFT is not primarily a PVP game. It has better PVP than LOTRO but it is mostly a PVE/raiding game. Guild Wars 2 is primarily a PVP game.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    i'm willing to bet a lot of f2p players pay a bunch more per month than I do as VIP. They went to f2p model for a reason.
    It's important to remember that monetising free players (what a wonderful paradox) was only part of the new model. A larger part of the extra income comes from getting *more* money from those subscribers perfectly willing to pay more.

    I bought a lifetime subscription in 2008. From then until F2P Turbine made $0 from me. Since F2P they have made $hundreds from me.

    This was all rather neatly explained in a video of a talk given by then-producers of LOTRO at a game conference before the F2P transition. The "extra income from subscribers willing to pay more" box was significantly bigger than the "possible new income from non-subscribers" box.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    For the first time in 3 years I'm looking at new MMO's and sadly alot of them are going the same route as LOTRO. A total Zyngafaction of the genre. Every MMO (maybe aside from Rift) is getting what I like to call a major dumbing down. They are doing this to attract a broader audience in order to make money. I'm sure there are alot of people out there like me that would spend 40 to 60 dollars on a really good mmo then pay between 10-15$ a month to go back to the classic format of the genre.

    The ADD generation has sadly taken over all the good games.
    1. I do not want to have to interact with other human beings and work together as a team
    2. I would rather have a dungeon take 8 minutes and get no reward then get one that take 40 mins and offers some reward.

    Then there's the entitled:
    1. I should be able to get any reward by any means "I" choose.
    2. They should make the game more "insert term (generally solo)" friendly.
    Its the way it is. All companies that develop games are revenue driven. And they may think that the revenue comes from how you call them ADD-Generation?

    It would be ok, if Turbine would say a clear word on there strategy, but they never do. All this expactactions that there will be no group-content anymore, have there origin in some words from developers in some twitter-chats. Yes there was a small announcement beginning this year what will happen. But it was somehow vague and not very clear what will come. Maybe turbine does not know for them self, what they want to achieve. You can see the results yes, a new area completly soloable. That may lead to the idea that people that want to play with more than there pets, are not a traget group of turbine anymore. But who says they do not change there mind? They fear that the remaining ones waiting for raids, instances or whatever will leave instant, better get some cash from them.

 

 

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