Server To Start A Tribe On?

[Sezneg]

Were you impressed when people came out to defend Stalin? Mao?Kim Jong Il?

I am descended in part from a family that escaped Russian controlled Ukraine. My wife's grandfather escaped A Siberian work camp.

I don't believe your goal here was anything more than using hyperbole to comedic effect, but comparing people you don't agree with to people personally responsible for tens of millions of deaths is a little much.

[DocLove]

There are other admins significantly more active in game, and more prone to raging, or wanton haterism, who likely have a much greater impact on the creepside TS experience in game than Yicky does.

You couldn't be talking about.......Ohg....

Derp

Two words, my friend. Figurative comparison.

[Sezneg]

Two words, my friend. Figurative comparison.

I am well aware of the rhetorical device you are employing. That doesn't make it in any better taste, unfortunately.

[Sniz]

I have absolutely no idea what sniz is talking about, there has been multiple successful smaller tribes on the server who have done well in less than half/full raids.

I didn't say a tribe couldn't be successful on E. I just think that if they want to do their own tribe thing, they can do it on any server, it's not E's strength. Please allow myself to quote.. myself.. "Certainly, some do their own tribe thing on E, but if that's your goal you will miss out on a lot that E's open community has to offer."

[Sniz]

Speaking as an Elendilmir freep, the server can really use a creep tribe. Post U11, primetime action would benefit from the extra 6-12 creeps a tribe can bring.

Well they need advice that's going to apply long term, not just the current state of things. Sure now it's hard for freeps to find an equal fight, but nobody was saying we needed more creeps last update when the sides were balanced yet the results were not. Who knows what next update will bring, so best to try to describe the server culture overall so they can decide if it will be a good fit.

[stoffi]

2. I spent four or five sessions on E, never joining this ts, having a blast and enjoying some of the best scattered action i've had on the moors in years at the time.

We don't believe you!!!

jk, ofc. I'm sure you had a blast, many do.

[DocLove]

I am well aware of the rhetorical device you are employing. That doesn't make it in any better taste, unfortunately.

[Tityla]

Well they need advice that's going to apply long term, not just the current state of things. Sure now it's hard for freeps to find an equal fight, but nobody was saying we needed more creeps last update when the sides were balanced yet the results were not. Who knows what next update will bring, so best to try to describe the server culture overall so they can decide if it will be a good fit.

Well, we should also describe E's freepside as that's what a tribe's going to fight. A tribe might or might not hang out in TS all day long.

I think between U9 and U10, creepside could have used a tribe group that didn't necessarily join the craid/zerg as well, seeing how freeps would have groups of 4-8 that could fight a smaller group but not really 12+.

In my understanding, the benefits of E are:

1. There's usually action. Much of it is zerg (by either side) and/or hide-and-seek, but action regardless.
2. There are freep groups operating independent of the fraid (if any). A new tribe group will, of course, be turned into pie repeatedly, but that shouldn't last for very long. Occasionally such groups' pie-making efficiency surpasses that of the fraid's.
3. Creep TS makes it easy to know where the main group(s) are headed.

P.S. Someone may have already said so. In response to the OP, E's primetime is generally 8-12 Eastern. RvR can last until 1 or 2 am on some days (Saturdays in particular), or one side might disband around 10 or 11.

[Sezneg]

Well, we should also describe E's freepside as that's what a tribe's going to fight. A tribe might or might not hang out in TS all day long.

I think between U9 and U10, creepside could have used a tribe group that didn't necessarily join the craid/zerg as well, seeing how freeps would have groups of 4-8 that could fight a smaller group but not really 12+.

In my understanding, the benefits of E are:

1. There's usually action. Much of it is zerg (by either side) and/or hide-and-seek, but action regardless.
2. There are freep groups operating independent of the fraid (if any). A new tribe group will, of course, be turned into pie repeatedly, but that shouldn't last for very long. Occasionally such groups' pie-making efficiency surpasses that of the fraid's.
3. Creep TS makes it easy to know where the main group(s) are headed.

P.S. Someone may have already said so. In response to the OP, E's primetime is generally 8-12 Eastern. RvR can last until 1 or 2 am on some days (Saturdays in particular), or one side might disband around 10 or 11.

Re-Retire your RK please.

[Exion_Blade]

The point is that there is no choice. Most people like to group with other people, but that is not possible if everyone but you are allowed onto TS, and you are all alone on the outside. Get my point?

No actually i dont. You did not elaborate on what i have highlighted.

[stoffi]

No actually i dont. You did not elaborate on what i have highlighted.

Read the thread then. It's all thoroughly debated and both sides' arguments are presented.

If you want to raid or group on Elendilmir and you are banned from TS for some reason, you might as well change server. On other servers, there is no TS to be banned from, and no one but Turbine can ban you from ooc. Therefore, you can get groups or raids even if you break the rule of 1 raid leader or p*** him off in some way. You can even make your own group, for example. On Elendilmir, that would not be possible in the same degree because everything happens on TS, and you are banned from it (be it a just reason or not). TS is OOC, so to speak. If you're banned from ooc on a normal server, you would have a pretty hard time getting groups too, unless you have a tribe to help you.

Did that explain it?


And again, I'm sure Elendilmir is a nice server for plenty of players, as is evident. I'm just principally against that a few people hold that much power, unless I know for a fact that they will act entirely neutral and just. Elendilmir's admins might be that, but I see some people disagreeing, feeling they have been wronged or seen other people getting wronged.

[Exion_Blade]

Read the thread then.

I ask you to specifically elaborate about one thing you said and you give me a snob remark of read the thread and seriously have the nerve to speak about others being snobby and elitist? For the record i have read the thread, in depth as well as width.

It's all thoroughly debated and both sides' arguments are presented.

I'm asking about something you had mentioned, i'm asking for a clarification to your point.

If you want to raid or group on Elendilmir and you are banned from TS for some reason, you might as well change server. On other servers, there is no TS to be banned from, and no one but Turbine can ban you from ooc. Therefore, you can get groups or raids even if you break the rule of 1 raid leader or p*** him off in some way. You can even make your own group, for example.

On Elendilmir, that would not be possible in the same degree because everything happens on TS, and you are banned from it (be it a just reason or not). TS is OOC, so to speak. If you're banned from ooc on a normal server, you would have a pretty hard time getting groups too, unless you have a tribe to help you.

I see the point you are making.
You are saying that due to the TS culture of E you cannot get together groups in OOC anymore because groups and raids are formed in TS, with raid leaders being on TS. And due to the fact that there are personal admins on TS, it means that do have any sort of personal problems or disagreements with said admins means you are now an outcast of said TS culture and things become harder on you for being that outcast. That is a fair observation.
However it is similar to freepside in kinship structure, which in extension is similar to creepsides tribe structure. In essence you have a point but it lacks to look at other instances of the similar problem: cliches. Whether you like it or not, TS creep culture on E is a cliche. You can choose to let yourself into the cliche, as anyone would choose to let themselves into a tribe/kinship. No one is forcing you to join. No one is kicking you from the server or constantly harassing you for not being in the cliche. if they are then you have guide lines about reporting harassment. Furthermore not everyone likes to be in a raid. Some like to solo or even small group. On the somewhat smaller server i am from, when we raid it's mostly a tribe raid. This is even more exclusive than the TS culture. Why are you not decrying elitism there? Or how about freepside kins who only will pvp with kinnies and would watch others get zerged and not lift a finger to help them? Why are you not up in arms about this? It happens to play along with the point you have made. In kins or tribes there are rules are there not? Usually set by the leader or by an oligarchy of officers. You either follow these rules or you can leave the kinship/tribe or you will be expelled from it. THIS IS NORMAL. TS would be no different. You can join and follow said rules or not join and do whatever you want.

Furthermore: YOU DO NOT NEED TO RAID TO PVMP.

And again, I'm sure Elendilmir is a nice server for plenty of players, as is evident. I'm just principally against that a few people hold that much power, unless I know for a fact that they will act entirely neutral and just. Elendilmir's admins might be that, but I see some people disagreeing, feeling they have been wronged or seen other people getting wronged.

People have a tendency to exaggerate or lie. And people do disagree for whatever reason .See for yourself before making judgement and not simply let the opinions of others influence you.

"The only ill will you bring her is your own, Thorin Oakenshield" ~ Gandalf

Did that explain it?

Yes thank you. Snobby high-horse comments (that were completely unnecessary) aside, that was exactly what i was asking for; for you to elaborate more thoroughly on your point.

[stoffi]

I ask you to specifically elaborate about one thing you said and you give me a snob remark of read the thread and seriously have the nerve to speak about others being snobby and elitist? For the record i have read the thread, in depth as well as width.




I'm asking about something you had mentioned, i'm asking for a clarification to your point.




I see the point you are making.
You are saying that due to the TS culture of E you cannot get together groups in OOC anymore because groups and raids are formed in TS, with raid leaders being on TS. And due to the fact that there are personal admins on TS, it means that do have any sort of personal problems or disagreements with said admins means you are now an outcast of said TS culture and things become harder on you for being that outcast. That is a fair observation.
However it is similar to freepside in kinship structure, which in extension is similar to creepsides tribe structure. In essence you have a point but it lacks to look at other instances of the similar problem: cliches. Whether you like it or not, TS creep culture on E is a cliche. You can choose to let yourself into the cliche, as anyone would choose to let themselves into a tribe/kinship. No one is forcing you to join. No one is kicking you from the server or constantly harassing you for not being in the cliche. if they are then you have guide lines about reporting harassment. Furthermore not everyone likes to be in a raid. Some like to solo or even small group. On the somewhat smaller server i am from, when we raid it's mostly a tribe raid. This is even more exclusive than the TS culture. Why are you not decrying elitism there? Or how about freepside kins who only will pvp with kinnies and would watch others get zerged and not lift a finger to help them? Why are you not up in arms about this? It happens to play along with the point you have made. In kins or tribes there are rules are there not? Usually set by the leader or by an oligarchy of officers. You either follow these rules or you can leave the kinship/tribe or you will be expelled from it. THIS IS NORMAL. TS would be no different. You can join and follow said rules or not join and do whatever you want.

Furthermore: YOU DO NOT NEED TO RAID TO PVMP.






People have a tendency to exaggerate or lie. And people do disagree for whatever reason .See for yourself before making judgement and not simply let the opinions of others influence you.

"The only ill will you bring her is your own, Thorin Oakenshield" ~ Gandalf




Yes thank you. Snobby high-horse comments (that were completely unnecessary) aside, that was exactly what i was asking for; for you to elaborate more thoroughly on your point.

Well, you chose to read the comments as snobby high-horse comments. It was not intended on my side.


TS is not a cliche. It's Elendilmir's ooc. "Everything" happens there. If you're not on TS, you're missing out on most organised groups. And all of your tribe will be on TS too. And yeah, you might join tribe groups, but what if you don't have big enough tribe?
You don't have to raid to PvMP, but what if the player wants to group/raid to play? Very few people prefer to stay solo, most people want to group up with someone and enjoy the company of others. You're excluded from all that without TS, with some exceptions, ofc, if you have a tribe big enough.


Leaving a kinship/tribe/raid is not the same as leaving TS. "EVERYONE's" on TS. Everyone isn't in your tribe/kin, nor are they in your current raid. If you get booted from a tribe, you can still raid and group up, and even find other tribes and new friends. Not having TS on Elendilmir is like a person not having internet and a phone in an internet and phone society. If someone takes away your phone and internet in a phone and internet society, you're pretty isolated. If phone and internet communication is the way people around you communicate and you don't have it; you're pretty isolated. You can walk over to a friend's house to call on him, but he's probably already made an appointment.
However, if you just lose your friends, you still have the possibility to get new ones. Or you can call on your family, book a holiday on the internet, etc etc.

Yes, society was fine without phones and internet in the past, but so was Elendilmir without TS. But when society and Elendilmir choose to use new communication forms, we grow dependant on them because everyone else uses them for communication. In Norway, denying your child internet and a mobile phone can almost be seen as child abuse, though not in its illegal form. Psychologists and Sociologists say that a child without internet and a phone will be isolated and be left behind the others because so much happens online and via phones. If your child can't participate, he's pretty much fekked. Yes, it is fekked, but that's how it is here. (By child, I don't mean 3 year olds)

[Rohan1240]

I'v pissed off plenty of TS raid leaders and TS admins in my time on E and have never even received a warning, so ur points about tyrannical dictatorship of TS raid leaders and admins are moot.

As for tribes, if you play on E and just want to stick to a tribe group that's fine, there are plenty of tribes on E that do in fact do this, and in some cases off even TS. TS is a tool that groups use or a raid uses to coordinate, I would have worded it w/ groups and raids use to coordinate but our numbers have dwindled so much since the last update that it's either a raid (and if we are lucky some taggers at peak) or a bunch of small groups coordinating. The TS rules are easy to follow and if you can't handle them then there is no place for you in TS, doesn't mean you still can't fight for E creepside, just means you will be a little bit more limited in your options. For a tribe group such as the one the OP describes TS would probably be optional for you guys as you would probably only be grouping w/ yourselves and on occasion if you decide to jump into a raid you would be required to be on TS. I know for my part I usually call something out in TS then in OOC so even without being in TS people on creepside do know where danger is and what the freeps are up to. Believe it or not there are people on E creepside who have got decently ranked (r12-13) without ever going into Creepspeak.

[stoffi]

I'v pissed off plenty of TS raid leaders and TS admins in my time on E and have never even received a warning, so ur points about tyrannical dictatorship of TS raid leaders and admins are moot.

As for tribes, if you play on E and just want to stick to a tribe group that's fine, there are plenty of tribes on E that do in fact do this, and in some cases off even TS. TS is a tool that groups use or a raid uses to coordinate, I would have worded it w/ groups and raids use to coordinate but our numbers have dwindled so much since the last update that it's either a raid (and if we are lucky some taggers at peak) or a bunch of small groups coordinating. The TS rules are easy to follow and if you can't handle them then there is no place for you in TS, doesn't mean you still can't fight for E creepside, just means you will be a little bit more limited in your options. For a tribe group such as the one the OP describes TS would probably be optional for you guys as you would probably only be grouping w/ yourselves and on occasion if you decide to jump into a raid you would be required to be on TS. I know for my part I usually call something out in TS then in OOC so even without being in TS people on creepside do know where danger is and what the freeps are up to. Believe it or not there are people on E creepside who have got decently ranked (r12-13) without ever going into Creepspeak.

Well, you're a rank 14 warg and are likely to have some kind of status on Elendilmir. It's rarely the strong who get abused; it's the weak ones. Those with few friends, those who are new. You can piss off TS admins "as much as you want", but is the same true for someone with a lower status than you?

If we had TS on Gilrain and I knew that the admins were just and mature, I'd praise Sauron for having such a vital tool. In theory, it's brilliant! And it's brilliant as it is now for plenty of players on Elendilmir too.

[Rohan1240]

Well, you're a rank 14 warg and are likely to have some kind of status on Elendilmir. It's rarely the strong who get abused; it's the weak ones. Those with few friends, those who are new. You can piss off TS admins "as much as you want", but is the same true for someone with a lower status than you?

If we had TS on Gilrain and I knew that the admins were just and mature, I'd praise Sauron for having such a vital tool. In theory, it's brilliant! And it's brilliant as it is now for plenty of players on Elendilmir too.

actually they could have banned me at any point as I don't have many friends on either side, so I wouldn't be missed. In fact I was on Vyxe's (the old leader of BAOS and not only is an admin on TS but also runs it) personal ignore list for 2 years until he left the game. I may be rank 14 but my social status on Elendilmir is lower than that accorded to most greenies. So once again, you assume wrong and your point is moot.

[Silverbullets]

It is also not for the overly sensitive as the tone of conversation can get crude and vulgar. The NC-17 rating is quite clear about this. But, TS3 has an option that you can mute individuals so you don't have to hear them.

This is a good warning for those considering E. TS in E used to have more ladies and gentlemen, who weren't quite as vulgar with their mouths. I consider myself as someone who has a pretty thick skin for language, even if I don't like it. My father worked construction, after all. I also used to run with Orz's raids on Brandywine, and I'm sure those few of you who remember him back in SOA would recall his admitted sailor mouth. But it was easy for me to let it slide off, as he would only curse when frustrated.

Unfortunately, as of late, I've found quite a few of the folks in the E TS to be saying the F word a LOT. Not just when they're frustrated, but just as every other word, as general chatter. Not to mention the constant vulgar jokes. It's actually starting to get to me. And like I said, I have a thick skin and a lot of forgiveness for that. It's going too far for even me. Makes this lady cringe constantly.

That would be the only drawback right now. Like I said, it used to not be this bad. We used to have a higher caliber of creeps in TS. Can't say that anymore. It's really gone downhill. Yes, you can mute people individually in TS, but how exactly do you mute the raid leader when he starts up every other word?

If this is a cause for creeps leaving and not liking having to join TS to get into the big raids, I'd be very understanding. It's definitely not an environment where you can take your kids and play together. I'd recommend Brandywine over E just because of that. At least, the Brandywine community I remember. Hopefully the caliber of people hasn't changed too drastically since I last prowled there. Shame, too, because TS makes for an otherwise very fun experience on E.

But if you have a thicker skin than I do, E might just be a great home for you! Give it a shot.

[Sezneg]

This is a good warning for those considering E. TS in E used to have more ladies and gentlemen, who weren't quite as vulgar with their mouths. I consider myself as someone who has a pretty thick skin for language, even if I don't like it. My father worked construction, after all. I also used to run with Orz's raids on Brandywine, and I'm sure those few of you who remember him back in SOA would recall his admitted sailor mouth. But it was easy for me to let it slide off, as he would only curse when frustrated.

Unfortunately, as of late, I've found quite a few of the folks in the E TS to be saying the F word a LOT. Not just when they're frustrated, but just as every other word, as general chatter. Not to mention the constant vulgar jokes. It's actually starting to get to me. And like I said, I have a thick skin and a lot of forgiveness for that. It's going too far for even me. Makes this lady cringe constantly.

That would be the only drawback right now. Like I said, it used to not be this bad. We used to have a higher caliber of creeps in TS. Can't say that anymore. It's really gone downhill. Yes, you can mute people individually in TS, but how exactly do you mute the raid leader when he starts up every other word?

If this is a cause for creeps leaving and not liking having to join TS to get into the big raids, I'd be very understanding. It's definitely not an environment where you can take your kids and play together. I'd recommend Brandywine over E just because of that. At least, the Brandywine community I remember. Hopefully the caliber of people hasn't changed too drastically since I last prowled there. Shame, too, because TS makes for an otherwise very fun experience on E.

But if you have a thicker skin than I do, E might just be a great home for you! Give it a shot.

The mute individual function is helpful at times.

I imagine I'm on a lot of people's personal mute lists, as I talk too much ;p

[Griffy]

This is a good warning for those considering E. TS in E used to have more ladies and gentlemen, who weren't quite as vulgar with their mouths. I consider myself as someone who has a pretty thick skin for language, even if I don't like it. *trim*

Unfortunately, as of late, I've found quite a few of the folks in the E TS to be saying the F word a LOT. Not just when they're frustrated, but just as every other word, as general chatter. Not to mention the constant vulgar jokes. It's actually starting to get to me. And like I said, I have a thick skin and a lot of forgiveness for that. It's going too far for even me. Makes this lady cringe constantly.

That would be the only drawback right now. Like I said, it used to not be this bad. We used to have a higher caliber of creeps in TS. Can't say that anymore. It's really gone downhill. Yes, you can mute people individually in TS, but how exactly do you mute the raid leader when he starts up every other word?

I'd toss ya some rep Silver, but it seems I already have. This was a concern I've had when I started coming back & used TS on my wargie's visits to the Moors. The room is labeled NC-17, so I know what is likely to happen. I agree that I too can usually forgive'n'forget the occasional cursory grump, but this gal can only cringe so many times before stepping outside entirely. If they are entirely inebriated and not likely to bite their tongue, I am always free to move to a Coordination or PvE room for small groups. I think your warning is quite warranted. There are also some very nice souls that come on TS who never drop a word worse than "Fudge!". mmmm *wanders off for some fudge* ... forgot if I had more to say... There's fudge to be found.

[stoffi]

actually they could have banned me at any point as I don't have many friends on either side, so I wouldn't be missed. In fact I was on Vyxe's (the old leader of BAOS and not only is an admin on TS but also runs it) personal ignore list for 2 years until he left the game. I may be rank 14 but my social status on Elendilmir is lower than that accorded to most greenies. So once again, you assume wrong and your point is moot.

Hehe, maybe I assumed wrong then. I find it very hard to believe that a rank 14 isn't a person of note, though, but if you say so.

You are an example of the admins having thick skin and not booting you too easily, then.

[Silverbullets]

The mute individual function is helpful at times.

I imagine I'm on a lot of people's personal mute lists, as I talk too much ;p

Sure, I've used that feature. But like I said, it's a little hard to mute the raid leader. Not if you don't want to be kicked. Not to mention when the bulk of people in TS start going off, it rather defeats the purpose to mute just about everyone.

The thing is, very few of us will ask you nicely in TS to please tone it down a notch, especially when we know we'll just be ridiculed for doing so. Even if there was no risk of such a thing, most of us are rather meek and gentle, and just won't say anything anyway. For instance, I just dropped from TS when you started whining about mine and others' comments here and bombing the F word en mass. We here on the forums are just warning others who might be seeking a family-friendly environment. We never told you to be quiet. So please do have at it. It is NC-17, after all.

Just don't be surprised if you and the others run off decent creeps and end up with fewer and fewer people to play with. It's gotten so bad that I am seriously considering transferring my warg back to Brandywine as soon as transfers reopen, even though I very much love E and BAOS. I doubt anyone will miss me much, but the point is that gentle-spirited people like myself tend to disappear quietly, and subtly. A bit of class, on the other hand, can really help build a stronger community. You may wish to consider that as food for thought.

Or not.

[Silverbullets]

I'd toss ya some rep Silver, but it seems I already have. This was a concern I've had when I started coming back & used TS on my wargie's visits to the Moors. The room is labeled NC-17, so I know what is likely to happen. I agree that I too can usually forgive'n'forget the occasional cursory grump, but this gal can only cringe so many times before stepping outside entirely. If they are entirely inebriated and not likely to bite their tongue, I am always free to move to a Coordination or PvE room for small groups. I think your warning is quite warranted. There are also some very nice souls that come on TS who never drop a word worse than "Fudge!". mmmm *wanders off for some fudge* ... forgot if I had more to say... There's fudge to be found.

Yum, I love fudge! Don't have any either. But there is always dark chocolate Cadbury Mini Eggs, with a crisp sugar shell, leftover from Easter. Mmm mmm.... +rep for reminding me to eat my chocolate eggs.

Feel free to invite me into your coordination group if you ever catch me in-game. We can say "fudge" all we want together, and Stickeez can do nothing to mute us! Muhahaha!

But yes, it's worse when they're inebriated. Though sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Har har. Like I said, it used to not be this bad. I don't know why it had to go downhill like this. I think it drives good creeps away who would otherwise be excellent contributors, comrades-at-arms, and even friends. C'est la vie.

[DocLove]

How the TS3 Admins handle bad feedback

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Do not get indoctrinated into the false promises of a utopia, my friends. The participants in this system have lost all cognitive thought and free will. Ignorance is bliss but closing your eyes and ears will not make your surroundings disappear.

[Yicky]

Sure, I've used that feature. But like I said, it's a little hard to mute the raid leader. Not if you don't want to be kicked. Not to mention when the bulk of people in TS start going off, it rather defeats the purpose to mute just about everyone.

The thing is, very few of us will ask you nicely in TS to please tone it down a notch, especially when we know we'll just be ridiculed for doing so. Even if there was no risk of such a thing, most of us are rather meek and gentle, and just won't say anything anyway. For instance, I just dropped from TS when you started whining about mine and others' comments here and bombing the F word en mass. We here on the forums are just warning others who might be seeking a family-friendly environment. We never told you to be quiet. So please do have at it. It is NC-17, after all.

Just don't be surprised if you and the others run off decent creeps and end up with fewer and fewer people to play with. It's gotten so bad that I am seriously considering transferring my warg back to Brandywine as soon as transfers reopen, even though I very much love E and BAOS. I doubt anyone will miss me much, but the point is that gentle-spirited people like myself tend to disappear quietly, and subtly. A bit of class, on the other hand, can really help build a stronger community. You may wish to consider that as food for thought.

Or not.

Hmmmm. I will look into the issue.