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  1. #26
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    Jan 2011
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    Compared to Lotro, WOWs instance finder is amazing. There are flaws of course like the lack of social interaction, little or none punishment for obnoxious players. And there are quite a few of those. But still its superior in every way.
    I fail to realize how Turbine was able to be so incompetent that it could not learn from others. One of them being the market leader.
    On my WoW server during prime time, the instance finder que time is less then 1 minute. So, yeah.....
    Last edited by zagreb000; Jun 19 2013 at 08:53 AM.

  2. #27
    Well, I'm not using it "they it should be used" (and no one I know). The problem is not, that you are waiting hours until someone finally joings, it's that you can't decide who joins. And yeah, some instances and hardmodes are hell on earth, if you get an "unexperienced player" in your group.

    But it's nice for some bonus stuff (if you already have a group).

  3. #28
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by little-wolf View Post
    As someone who has successfully used the Instance Finder, maybe you can answer my questions. When you join an instance, does it automatically put you into a fellowship with the other players that join? Also, does it not come up with an Instance Travel pop-up like when you use the Specific Instance Finder, that would allow you to Travel Later so you can go and retrait quickly before entering?

    It seems to me a lot of the problems people have with grouping with randomers would be solved if you could see who your team was before entering the instance, or even choosing the instance.
    My memory is a bit foggy now but I believe when IF was just introduced it was porting you inside immediately, no matter what. There were definitely some improvements to the system in the first patch after IF appeared. Here: update-6-developer-diary-instance-finder you can see which improvements were made. But the harm (bad reputation among the players) was already done.


    When you join an instance, does it automatically put you into a fellowship with the other players that join?
    I am not sure if I understand this question properly, so the answer will be broad:

    If you use the "Specific" tab, you just create the instance and enter it. You are not looking for a group that way, you are looking for an instance. You can enter a raid instance alone if you wish, or as a group of a few players.

    You can queue as a single player or a smaller group for a larger instance. You do this in the "Simple" and "Advanced" tabs. Let's say, you can be a group of 4 looking for 2 more to get a 6man. Unfortunately, you will probably never see those 2 random people in a queue so the instance will never start.

    If you are a single person queuing for a random skirmish 1-6 man you will be in a queue for a while (1 minute?) and then end up in a solo skirmish if the group was not formed. Even though the IF was quickly rejected by the community as a tool to find a group for 3-6mans instances, for a long time I was able to get a random duo skirmish with another bored dps class who just wanted a bit more marks. If you were planning to do a skirmish, it was worth is to spend 1 minute waiting for a possible partner and if he/she is not there you do a solo skirmish (all at lvl75... I really stopped using it in RoR).



    Nowadays it is more a habit, a baggage of bad memories and a lack of new players without bad memories at the endgame. No one is using IF so no groups are formed. However the Sambrog pugs in /glff are exactly how they would be formed by IF: "1/6 need randoms". I did such runs with a captain+5 hunters, or a mix of burgs and champs, or with poorly geared players, or with 3-4 players. If I was a new player, I would be seriously puzzled by a question: "Why can't I - a captain - find a group for Sambrog by queuing in Instance Finder?"

  4. #29
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    Jun 2011
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    1,544
    Quote Originally Posted by little-wolf View Post
    As someone who has successfully used the Instance Finder, maybe you can answer my questions. When you join an instance, does it automatically put you into a fellowship with the other players that join? Also, does it not come up with an Instance Travel pop-up like when you use the Specific Instance Finder, that would allow you to Travel Later so you can go and retrait quickly before entering?
    When the IF actually puts you into a group the only thing you'll see are the chosen roles of the other players, e.g. 3 DPS, 1 heal, 1 defense and 1 support. You do not see which instance was chosen or any detail of the other players (no names, level, classes, traits, ...). Then you and the others (who will see just the same info) are asked to accept or refuse the group. When all accept the group is directly ported into the instance, only then you can actually see if the setup is viable. In theory people could retrait for their chosen role before hitting accept, but as you don't know the instance and can't talk to the rest of the group (to explain why it takes so long) that doesn't happen. So in practice people would have to leave the instance after the group was ported, find the next bard, retrait and come back. And hope that noone else left meanwhile and that the group can handle the selected content.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    Turbine can say what it likes, that doesn't make it so. If something waddles like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. And Turbine calling it an eagle doesn't make it one!

    The instance finder is a poor excuse for a an instance finder and a dead loss as a group finder. The last time I used it, it put me in a 6-man group comprised of my Guardian, 3 Hunters, a Burglar and a Lore Master. Major disaster and total wipe out. Everyone blamed everyone else for not being able to stop the wipe, lots of bad words and feeling. I will never use it as a group finder again!
    The discussion is about what it has been designed to be, not what pile of trash it has turned out to actually be. It was meant to be a group finder but it was badly designed so nobody uses it is all we need to know.

  6. #31
    Probably doomed for failure, but maybe we need an instance finder friday. Where between a short few hour time span (whichever seems the busiest on each server) everyone who does want to use the instance finder as a group finder makes an effort to queue up for random content. Easier said than done of course.

    IF, and it's a big if I know, enough people started to use it during those hours, over time more and more would continue to queue up and use around those hours and gradually across other days.

    Chances are the first few times it's attempted people will queue up for a while, get no hits and quit. Downside to not knowing how many people are in the queue and what content they've queued for. Whilst I might be looking to do a specific instance and queue for that, if I knew there were almost a full group ready to do a GB run, I might decide to join that instead. To become more used I think it's going to need a rewrite based on some of the options given in the suggestion forum and hopefully a re-release with enough of an announcement will get people using it for quick pugs.

  7. #32
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    Just as a fun little snippet of info, Neverwinter released live less than two weeks ago and there's already threads complaining that their group finder isn't working, and they're being told it's working fine but people just aren't using it, seems to be a recurring trend in games lately lol.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    Just as a fun little snippet of info, Neverwinter released live less than two weeks ago and there's already threads complaining that their group finder isn't working, and they're being told it's working fine but people just aren't using it, seems to be a recurring trend in games lately lol.
    NEverwinter's group finder does not trivialize itself with making groups as one would think. It does a fine job grabbing the next five players to submit their names, groups are often five dps classes with no healer or tank. Mind you, sometimes that's preferred which is a whole other discussion well beyond the scope of this thread.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaedian66 View Post
    NEverwinter's group finder does not trivialize itself with making groups as one would think. It does a fine job grabbing the next five players to submit their names, groups are often five dps classes with no healer or tank. Mind you, sometimes that's preferred which is a whole other discussion well beyond the scope of this thread.
    Yeah i know that's what it's supposed to do, the problem is it's so strict that it's not forming groups, people are sitting there waiting five or six hours for a group to form and when they complain they're being told there's nothing wrong and people just aren't using it lol

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunasa View Post
    I like the idea of instance finder and really wish we could use it for forming groups.
    <snip>
    I managed to have some successful (usually t1) 3man runs on either a captain or a guardian. I never saw a 6man formed with Instance Finder, even though I was always selecting that option.
    Not surprising unless 3 (possibly 4) other players have only selected 6-man the group won't form. Instead as soon as it can match the 3 players to 3-man it will launch the instance. This could be cured with a configurable max-wait timer. The instance will then only launched when one of the following is met:
    • Instance has reached the maximum players set by any of the participants.
    • A player's max-wait has been exceeded.

    As a bonus the max-wait could also (optionally) be configured to reset on reaching the next group size.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by davidventernet View Post
    There's so much awesome content in LOTRO (apparently) yet I never get to experience any of it because every decent quest line or instance requires a fellowship which is apparently impossible to set up using the provided 'finder' tools. This BLOWS. </rant>
    I wanted to bring that comment back up because there might be more people in this situation than is apparent in the forums. I know I've felt that way for quite a while, because the alternatives to the "broken" IF are far from being ideal either.

    * Joining a kin, any kin, for the sake of being able to do instances - if you've been playing solo-ish until then, you're basically forced to turn your whole game experience upside-down, and it doesn't guarantee you'll find like-minded competent players either.

    * GLFF - forced to follow and even interact with an elitist channel 99% full of inane tripe only to end up being abused by teenage pr0g4m3rs... not the most attractive option for people who are just trying to have some fun and relax.

  12. #37
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    On farmfoot we refrain from pulling the finger glff is how we roll

  13. #38
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    Feb 2011
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    While I have on occasion met up with other players in IF

    It's never been more than a duo skirm-meaning me and another solo player happened to both be randoming up a run at the same time.

    Mostly, we build a group as Yula indicates, among kin and friends, and then go in through the finder. I would suggest you might build up a network of friends or a kin that runs lower level content.

    We just had a heckuva great time last night running Tuckborough, Gondamon, and a Turtle run for dessert. We keyed our level to the lowest level participant, so the rewards were not endgame level, but the fun was awesome.

    Because of the level variation, we couldn't enter IF for additional group members. So no chance to bring any pug members along with us for the fun.
    [FONT=palatino linotype][SIZE=2][COLOR=#b22222]LilyRose of Gladden[/COLOR][COLOR=#b22222], Mistress of the Rangers of the West Kinship. Come check out our kin at[/COLOR][URL="http://rangerswest.guildlaunch.com"][COLOR=#b22222] rangerswest.guildlaunch.com[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#b22222].[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

  14. #39
    I use it to enter an instance with a pre-formed group - but after 6 years in WOW I will not pug. Though I've found the few times I've been in groups with strangers in LOTRO it wasn't a horrible experience, I'm still shellshocked from WOW - especially once they made it cross-server and they didn't have to worry about server rep.

    2 years and still have no desire to log back in to WOW as a result.
    Casual R Us - Garatha

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    The other issue is that group finder is very primitive. It allows players to select a role that they are not traited for. Do not have the gear for. Turbine would need to improve the role selector so that I do not find that my Healer is a DPS traited Rune Keeper that is not going to retrait. Turbine is going to have to give me a bonus for letting the game software team members. Otherwise why would I risk getting a graduate of the Leeroy Jenkins method of playing in my group. I've been the Leeroy Jenkins route before. That is a waste of my valuable game play time and silver for no reward.
    I am of the view that these people need to see someone doing it right before they realize they have room for improvement. This is in part due to the level of difficulty in the landscape being a bit too easy. Alot of the time pots for fear/wound/disease/poison are not needed on the landscape mobs and it saves silver not to buy them which results in predictable results in raids. For some instances going out of the instance for a respec/potions is not an option because instance items get dropped on exiting. I'd love to see repair/vendors/bards within the instance ala Ost Dunhoth provided the instances are large enough to make running back to respec painful (keep the store bard relevant).

    The nice thing about the current state of things is that the classes are flexible enough for what the instance finder throws at us. LM healer, Cappy Tank, Warden DPS are all a few easy swaps away for the extra-prepared. In Rise of Isengard I've taken a 3-burg group thru Eaves of Fangorn T2c. I carried a hunter with ~800 agility through Eaves, Pits of Isengard, Dargnakh T2C who got enough out of those instances to really get a leg up (Warden in a 3-man? Go grab a coffee, I got this!). The instances are easy enough with a competent player or two, all it takes is the forbearance and patience to correct, chide and nudge the third to make the changes appropriate for the content. I'm assuming the newbies have the capacity to make the leap from face-roll landscape to group content, which I am willing to take the benefit of the doubt on for 3 and select 6-mans.
    Last edited by WhimsicalPacifist; Aug 13 2013 at 05:47 PM.
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  16. #41
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    Feb 2011
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by WhimsicalPacifist View Post
    I am of the view that these people need to see someone doing it right before they realize they have room for improvement. This is in part due to the level of difficulty in the landscape being a bit too easy. Alot of the time pots for fear/wound/disease/poison are not needed on the landscape mobs and it saves silver not to buy them which results in predictable results in raids. For some instances going out of the instance for a respec/potions is not an option because instance items get dropped on exiting. I'd love to see repair/vendors/bards within the instance ala Ost Dunhoth provided the instances are large enough to make running back to respec painful (keep the store bard relevant).
    Here's where I make my pitch for kins to do this sort of thing as folks level up.

    We've initiated weekly training runs in our kin, and the focus is just getting folks introduced to grouping. Also, it's a good way for folks to learn a different class than their main in a group.

    We key to the lowest level participant, and take our time to answer questions, get user interfaces set up, etc. Talk about potions and food if the instance requires them, and basically have fun with unorthodox groups and content.


    I'm not an experienced raider, but I can get folks used to the basics of grouping. I often learn a lot myself because some of our experienced raiders make a point of coming along on an alt to help out.

    It is fun, builds a cohesive kin full of players who are comfortable stepping into an instance to help out, and we've actually drawn recruits in because we do this.

    Plus, did I mention the fun? And pie... lots and lots of pie....
    [FONT=palatino linotype][SIZE=2][COLOR=#b22222]LilyRose of Gladden[/COLOR][COLOR=#b22222], Mistress of the Rangers of the West Kinship. Come check out our kin at[/COLOR][URL="http://rangerswest.guildlaunch.com"][COLOR=#b22222] rangerswest.guildlaunch.com[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#b22222].[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

  17. #42
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    Usually i agree with you almost 100% Yula, you're nearly always right, but on this one you are way off mark and very wrong.
    .
    I think he/she is still 100% right.

    It's impossible to conceive that any developer would intend for such a sloppy non-functional tool at finding groups to actually be used for finding groups. As the poster pointed out, there are hardly any safeguards in place to cut back on abuse. It gives no additional rewards for playing with players found through the system. And it doesn't even attempt to build a balanced group - and seems to just randomly toss players together willy nilly.

    Some will argue it always provides a group with a tank or a healer. That is false. But even if that were true... some instances require both defense and healing. And I'm sure turbine would know that, considering they designed the damned instances. So it doesn't matter what was said in the developer dairies. It's obvious simply by looking at the tool itself that it was definitely NOT crafted in a way to assist players in forming groups. It just wasn't. No developer is that incompetent. And that is exactly why no one uses it for that purpose. Because simply put, it doesn't work as one.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I think he/she is still 100% right.

    It's impossible to conceive that any developer would intend for such a sloppy non-functional tool at finding groups to actually be used for finding groups. As the poster pointed out, there are hardly any safeguards in place to cut back on abuse. It gives no additional rewards for playing with players found through the system. And it doesn't even attempt to build a balanced group - and seems to just randomly toss players together willy nilly.

    Some will argue it always provides a group with a tank or a healer. That is false. But even if that were true... some instances require both defense and healing. And I'm sure turbine would know that, considering they designed the damned instances. So it doesn't matter what was said in the developer dairies. It's obvious simply by looking at the tool itself that it was definitely NOT crafted in a way to assist players in forming groups. It just wasn't. No developer is that incompetent. And that is exactly why no one uses it for that purpose. Because simply put, it doesn't work as one.

    I think if they explained intially how they wanted players to use the tool it would be better. the one WOW used worked quite well

  19. #44
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    Green part of a blue-red state
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    Love Freudian typos...

    I use the Finder to find the instance I want (i.e. I choose using the tool, I don't let the tool choose for me). Outside of a few SOLO instances where I let it choose the instance to boost my marks (plus I was curious to see what it would pick), I have not let it pick. I have rejected many of those too...(I don't want to solo that with that guy! Oh that's me...still not doing it!).

    I never let it pick a blind one for a group instance.


    Fickle Finger of Instance Finding....
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    I think if they explained intially how they wanted players to use the tool it would be better. the one WOW used worked quite well
    Wow does have an excellent group finding system. I'm not a big fan of that game, but I will give it credit where it's due. Easily the game's best feature, and probably a big part of its continued success.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Aug 22 2013 at 10:38 PM.

  21. #46
    As of the Helm's Deep xpac, it would appear that Turbine have given instances the (instance) finger.

 

 
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