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  1. #1

    Scholars: Completely screwed over.

    The thread title says it all.
    I've been a scholar from day one of playing LOTRO, and it's still my favourite craft.
    However, there seems to be an increasing trend whereby all the other professions get a slew of great recipes with each major update, while scholars just get new battle and warding lore.

    In Update 11, every single other craft got new recipes worth talking about, worth crafting, and worth paying gold for. Scholars, however...? We got new battle and warding lore, and had our dyes undercut by the introduction of the market in Bree.

    It's so frustrating that every other craft has a way to make income, while scholars are limited to the occasional pocket item (seriously, what's the point in paying gold for a pocket item when the ones that are freely available in Rohan / Wildermore are equal or better?), and previously, dyes.

    Ugh.
    Turbine, you make me so mad!

  2. #2
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    Don't worry about it. The balance between crafts, like the balance between classes, is not a static thing. Whilst you are right about scholars getting beaten down currently. I am not yet sure whether or not that is the whole of the story. If these new single-use recipes have a critical version on them, like the gold recipes, then scholars, in fact, will be everyone's best friend for crafting-boost scrolls and books.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awenir24 View Post
    In Update 11, every single other craft got new recipes worth talking about, worth crafting, and worth paying gold for. Scholars, however...? We got new battle and warding lore, and had our dyes undercut by the introduction of the market in Bree.
    You mean guild scholars got new bulk recipes for the Battle and Warding lore scrolls we could already make if we had gotten the rep recipes from Snowbourn.

    On the other hand, lowbie crafting alts now have access to Eastemnet-tier Battle & Warding scrolls that they couldn't make before. In my view this is an improvement; they did the same thing in Westfold-tier (made Battle & Warding lore recipes available only from one of the new expansion's rep factions) but never bothered to give the guild bulk recipes. Lowbie crafting alts were entirely unable to make those items.

    So thanks, Turbine, for the new bulk scholar's guild recipes in U11. I was expecting new pocket item recipes, but bulk Battle & Warding lore recipes were a nice surprise.
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  4. #4
    As far as dyes, I wouldn't say that the new market in Bree will make things much worse than before. You could already buy dyes from the LOTRO store; I checked out the new market and it looked like it took mithril coins for all the dyes (and some took a lot more coins than others). There are many players, myself included, who won't want to spend their mithril coins on something they can get elsewhere.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by banjolier View Post
    ...lowbie crafting alts now have access to Eastemnet-tier Battle & Warding scrolls that they couldn't make before. In my view this is an improvement; they did the same thing in Westfold-tier (made Battle & Warding lore recipes available only from one of the new expansion's rep factions) but never bothered to give the guild bulk recipes.
    ...so in other words, you're grateful that they added something that should have been there long before now.
    I agree, and that's nice, but my issue isn't with what scholars have now; it's with the fact that when everybody else has new recipes added, we don't. Plus the pocket item, which is the only piece of gear we can craft, often seems to be the "special drop" in a given area too, which makes us redundant.
    On top of that, not only did Turbine give (as you've mentioned, adding in what should have been in-game earlier), but they took away, making dyes available at Leila's market in Bree. I'm not thrilled.

  6. #6
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    I couldn't agree with the OP more, of all the crafters the Scholar is the least worthwhile and the most trouble to level skills IMO. I can make more money with a cook or farmer than a scholar! Certainly leveling the skills is a whole lot easier.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awenir24 View Post
    Plus the pocket item, which is the only piece of gear we can craft, often seems to be the "special drop" in a given area too, which makes us redundant.
    You're mistaken in assuming crafted pocket items made scholars special. Crafted pocket items didn't exist at all prior to the Isengard expansion (Westfold tier); all pocket items were drops. And while the Westfold crafted pockets were nice, they weren't best-in-slot for many classes, and were obsoleted entirely with Great River's Empowered Anduin sets. (I think I used the Defensive pocket briefly on my Guardian. My other classes never even had a crafted 75 pocket.)

    Rohan+U11 follows the exact same pattern: new crafted pockets when the new craft tier comes out, best-in-slot pockets are instance drops, and new barter pockets with the between-expansion update. If your complaint is that scholars' pocket recipes aren't good enough, you could have been writing that back in U9.


    Quote Originally Posted by Awenir24 View Post
    On top of that, not only did Turbine give, but they took away, making dyes available at Leila's market in Bree.
    Again, nothing new. Anyone with the mithril coins to buy dyes in Leila's Market could have spent TP on dyes before U11. Anyone who'd rather spend MC/TP on dye was probably not your customer anyway, so what have you lost?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjolier View Post
    You mean guild scholars got new bulk recipes for the Battle and Warding lore scrolls we could already make if we had gotten the rep recipes from Snowbourn.

    On the other hand, lowbie crafting alts now have access to Eastemnet-tier Battle & Warding scrolls that they couldn't make before. In my view this is an improvement; they did the same thing in Westfold-tier (made Battle & Warding lore recipes available only from one of the new expansion's rep factions) but never bothered to give the guild bulk recipes. Lowbie crafting alts were entirely unable to make those items.

    So thanks, Turbine, for the new bulk scholar's guild recipes in U11. I was expecting new pocket item recipes, but bulk Battle & Warding lore recipes were a nice surprise.
    They're new recipes. Slightly better bonuses as the old T8 stuff.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjolier View Post
    You mean guild scholars got new bulk recipes for the Battle and Warding lore scrolls we could already make if we had gotten the rep recipes from Snowbourn.

    On the other hand, lowbie crafting alts now have access to Eastemnet-tier Battle & Warding scrolls that they couldn't make before. In my view this is an improvement; they did the same thing in Westfold-tier (made Battle & Warding lore recipes available only from one of the new expansion's rep factions) but never bothered to give the guild bulk recipes. Lowbie crafting alts were entirely unable to make those items.

    So thanks, Turbine, for the new bulk scholar's guild recipes in U11. I was expecting new pocket item recipes, but bulk Battle & Warding lore recipes were a nice surprise.
    You are thanking Turbine for giving us guild recipes that are not worth being guild recipes? Every 3 days we can craft 10 scrolls of Warding or Battle lore... scrolls that are only slightly better than the ones we can craft en-mass?

    Everyone else got new guild recipes worth making. My jeweler got new agility earrings worth making. My scholar got NOTHING. I am not going to wait 3 days of cool down to craft something that is barely 5% better than something I can already craft for far less effort.
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  10. #10
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    Mats are so easy to get it's not like bulk recs are that great anyway.
    There are scholar chests everywhere in Wildermore, and before that there was the Hytbold crafting instance, so I hardly ever use bulk recs.
    The new Battle and Warding lore scrolls from Wildermore are a slight improvement, but still not great.

    Scholars are getting severely screwed.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Awenir24 View Post
    ...so in other words, you're grateful that they added something that should have been there long before now.
    I agree, and that's nice, but my issue isn't with what scholars have now; it's with the fact that when everybody else has new recipes added, we don't. Plus the pocket item, which is the only piece of gear we can craft, often seems to be the "special drop" in a given area too, which makes us redundant.
    On top of that, not only did Turbine give (as you've mentioned, adding in what should have been in-game earlier), but they took away, making dyes available at Leila's market in Bree. I'm not thrilled.
    As a person who buys a lot of dyes on the auction hall, I can tell you I will never be buying dyes from the new store. They are too high priced and the Mithril coins have much better uses elsewhere. I just bought a slew of dyes again a few days ago and all came from the auction hall...

  12. #12
    As long as prices on Dyes in the AH are within reason then you can expect to see more of them coming from players rather than from the store or Lalia's Market thru the use of Mithril Coins(which have better uses than purchasing cosmetic gear).

    I don't charge big prices for Dyes on many of my scholars so as to cater to those people who need a color inexpensively. And sell they do.

  13. #13
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    Thumbs down Guild Pocket item: Result not selectable anymore

    Am I the only one seeing that the Scholar Guild pocket item on Tier 8 got reduced from several selectable options to ONE?
    Or what am I missing?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slet View Post
    Am I the only one seeing that the Scholar Guild pocket item on Tier 8 got reduced from several selectable options to ONE?
    Or what am I missing?
    I just noticed that myself, and I'm hoping it's just another U11 bug. Please submit a bug report if you haven't already.
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  15. #15
    I honestly agree that scholars have been pretty much screwed over with lack of useful recipes they can use to craft items with that people will ACTUALLY buy, and make any useful amount of money from. With the amount of coin that it now takes to buy all the items to craft pots/scrolls with, and the current amount of coin you can get for said items, it is pretty much pointless to make those things to sell. You really don't make much off of it, and next to no one wants the easier made scrolls, and next to no one ever buys power pots anymore. (Frankly, with the addition of Wildermore, I can run around there for a bit, and get all the pots I need to keep my loremaster going WITHOUT having to make any pots for myself.) I make more off of farming, than scholar stuff on my loremaster, or just plain farming the scholar mats and selling them!

    Heck, I make like 10 times more coin on my jeweler, 4 times as much on my cook, and 4 times as much just gathering mats on my explorer. Seriously, what are you people trying to do here?

    THEN then only thing I was making coin off of before the update, the eomer scrolls (pocket item) of different types, are nerfed so that I can only make the vit based type of it with the guilded scholar recipe. Unless of course, I buy a durned recipe with tokens, and having to use crit materials to POSSIBLY get the critted version of it. Not that that really matters, as with the update, the new pocket item we can get/upgrade pretty much made the scrolls useless to most folks. (Though frankly, I still like the scroll for will based stuff better.)

    I've also been pretty grumbly about the lack of ability for any crafting profession to make bridles. WE SHOULD be able to make at least more second age bridles. I was thinking it would be more of a guilded tailoring thing, but heck, I'd give anything to have a useful item for my scholar to sell. Basically, my jeweler is supporting my scholar, and it's total bunk. Give us something useful that will actually sell.

    Then to see today that they are selling dyes for mithril coins, is just another stab in the scholars back to be blunt. I really don't care if people would be less likely to buy dyes with those coins, it's the simple fact that they can. Why don't they just go ahead and make it possible to buy any crafted item with coins if they want to truly be fair?
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  16. #16
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    i'm honestly more bothered by the fact that it still takes a horrendous amount of time to craft anything in bulk, enough superior crafting systems have been developed in other successful games by now that it should be readily apparent to anyone with enough braincells to create friction that noone wants to actively sit around watching a bar take 2-5 seconds to fill up 500 times.

    I don't think crafting was a system predicated on AFK time.
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  17. #17
    You would see more dyes being sold thru the AH, if you stopped charging an arm and a leg or following the rumplestiltskin model of asking for their next child.


    My scholars make more than enough gold by being reasonable about prices, setting them up so that even a noob can manage to get good dyes.

    same goes for other things that a scholar can make.

  18. #18
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    I remember the days when a single Black Dye would sell for 2g, when the richest players in the game had maybe 100-200g. About 20g for a single dye, adjusted haphazardly for inflation. A stack of 20 potions would sell for the same, and Red Dye wasn't far behind.

    I remember one time setting my alarm to wake me at 4am to bid on an auction of Neekerbreeker Ichor.

    Aah, how the mighty have fallen. We Scholars are but poor peddlers of Battle Lore and Bow Chants. At least we have a node tracker now (even if they haven't deemed us worthy of reducing our harvesting time from, what, 8 seconds on a L85 node?)
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  19. #19
    A single black Dye still sells for about 2g, well on some servers.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by banjolier View Post
    I just noticed that myself, and I'm hoping it's just another U11 bug. Please submit a bug report if you haven't already.

    are you talking about the Scroll of Eomer ? if so you really do need to report this , i just checked my scholar and can still make the 4 variants .

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernieR View Post
    are you talking about the Scroll of Eomer ? if so you really do need to report this , i just checked my scholar and can still make the 4 variants .
    Yes, the bugfix was in the U11.1 patch. It's fixed (for now).


    Quote Originally Posted by MajesticBellowphone View Post
    I've also been pretty grumbly about the lack of ability for any crafting profession to make bridles. WE SHOULD be able to make at least more second age bridles. I was thinking it would be more of a guilded tailoring thing [...]
    Stop grumbling and open your eyes. The Tailor's guild has recipes for third/second/first-age level 85 bridles: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Tail...endary_Bridles
    Last edited by banjolier; Jun 18 2013 at 11:31 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Glad to see the Eomer recipe has been fixed, but.....why do we still not have a Wildermore guild recipe for pockets?
    Every other craft has Wildermore guild recipes.

    Or heck, even a single-use pocket recipe from the barterer would be nice.
    Last edited by BirdofHermes; Jun 20 2013 at 07:32 AM.
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  23. #23
    1) All the other professions did not get sellable item recipes. The jewelers got great earrings. The woodworkers got great bows. Tailors and Metalsmiths got some ok shoulders (because of the tac mit). Guilded cooks got a three day CD recipe for stat food with two stats. Decent, but you certainly won't make money off it due to the cooldown being ten food every three days. Weaponsmith got a so so recipe for an axe. Scholars got the the battle and warding recipes. Of these, the only really good sellers on the AH is the earrings and bows. And its about time the woodworkers got something decent. This is the first time in six years of playing my wookworker has had more than 100 gold. As for jewelers, these became gods with the post SoA decision to distribute armor thru [seals, tokens, blah blah etc etc]. The bulk of the jewelry, weapon and armor recipes from Wildermere were inferior to the Eomer ones, and so serve no function other than to clog up your list of recipes.

    2) The only reason scholars didn't get new pocket items with Wildermere was because the devs chose gold pocket items to be the carrot to entice people to actually play in Wildermere, which doesn't offer very much. There will be new pocket items recipes in the next expansion, you can be sure. For the same reason they reduced the output of the old lev 85 pocket item from 4 to 1. After they got everyone who was going to to start down the path of the gold pocket item, they went back and restored the 4 output option.

    3) Scholars have always had an advantage namely that you could gather and craft from a single profession.

    4) Potions have always been good sellers, and they remain so. No, you are not going to get rich like a jeweler, but you will keep alive your characters and some of your Kin. Everybody has to have potions and scrolls, and therefore scholars are needed.

  24. #24
    I just got to ally in wildermore and spent 20 wilermore tokens to find out that the 2 stupid recipes Scholars can get are single use! (10 dumb scrolls that go away if you die!) I thought scholars got the shaft a long time ago but this is ridiculous.

    Scholars got seriously hosed in Rohan/Wildermore and in my opion they get hosed right from square one when you can't find apprentice tier mats.

    (p.s. No one mentioned the hunter books scholars make.)

    I don't know what to make of this turbine. Scholar crafting at the Eastemnet teir is down right terrible!!
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  25. #25
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    Considering scholars were used far more than metalsmith for crafting in RoR, we don't have much to complain about.

    It is fair to me that the lvl 85 scrolls were one-offs, frankly, it takes 15 minutes to do the 5 wildermore survivors dailies, and you basically get 20 of the best scrolls as your reward if you crit. seems pretty fair to me.

    You have to look at prior expansions as guidance. with RoI we were using lvl 66 scrolls for lvl 75 raids on scholar. and for Mirk/MoM, we were using lvl 50 scrolls for that content.

    It is a fair trade off to use on-level scrolls at 85 with the requirement that they be one-offs. no complaint here.
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