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  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Notice how you still can't show this logins number? That was a great explanation of how you assume it works though.

    Again, I have seen a queue number. No one has ever been able to show any login number from that API. Your spins won't change the fact that you don't know what a fact is. "It must be true. I heard it on the internet!" Even I, with the lack of education, know what a fact is.
    What do you think the queue number is? The guys in the thread that I directed you to already demonstrated that they can login and increase the "now serving" number in increments of "1" during dead login periods. Anyone with an open mind would conclude after minimal testing that it is tracking logins. You need only sample the queue number in set time increments and then divide by the unit time to compute the rate of login. The author of the chart then takes the login rate average for the day and plots it over time. That can given any unbiased observer a sense of where game play is trending. Again, I don't understand why it is difficult for you to understand.
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
    [url]http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com[/url]

  2. #127
    I visit lotro almost every day, to check out, if some familiar faces are on, they are not.

    I see the population of my (former) raid SNGs, SNG and global SNG. It is at an all time low (for me at last, who played for 2 1/2 years).

    As far as I can see, many people have left lotro and to the ones saying, look for new players and there is end game activity:
    1. Fornost is no endgame activity, T 2 CM is.
    2. Try to get new poeple for end game content, that is boring and unrewarding, that is allmost impossible.
    3. Try to run end game with 11 new people, that is impossible.
    lvl 85 lm (main), lvl 85 champ, lvl 85 rk, lvl 85 hunter, lvl 85 minni

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    What do you think the queue number is? The guys in the thread that I directed you to already demonstrated that they can login and increase the "now serving" number in increments of "1" during dead login periods. Anyone with an open mind would conclude after minimal testing that it is tracking logins. You need only sample the queue number in set time increments and then divide by the unit time to compute the rate of login. The author of the chart then takes the login rate average for the day and plots it over time. That can given any unbiased observer a sense of where game play is trending. Again, I don't understand why it is difficult for you to understand.
    Because logins and queues are completely different numbers. You are trying to claim one number represents another, and actually claiming that it is the other. I work with networks and I can tell you that they aren't the same thing. My works servers have queue numbers that don't come close to actual connection numbers. You then claim it's a fact because people can clearly know all other activity that went on while they tested. What were you saying about education again? That sure wouldn't fly where I went to college. In fact, you would get laughed at.

    This may show a decline in activity. I haven't disputed that. It could also indicate that less people have to hit a queue, and instead get directly connected. Again, what are the facts here? You sure aren't proving that you know.
    Last edited by Cirgellon; Jun 27 2013 at 05:57 PM.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    This may show a decline in activity. I haven't disputed that. It could also indicate that less people have to hit a queue, and instead get directly connected. Again, what are the facts here? You sure aren't proving that you know.
    What you fail to realize is that every actual login results in getting a queue number.

    Just because you never see a 'waiting in queue' doesn't mean you haven't gotten a queue number and incremented the counter by one.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    What you fail to realize is that every actual login results in getting a queue number.

    Just because you never see a 'waiting in queue' doesn't mean you haven't gotten a queue number and incremented the counter by one.
    Can you cite a source for this please? If Turbine has said that, I'm surprised that it hasn't been linked in the multiple threads talking about this graph.

    That isn't how it works on any of the servers at my job.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Can you cite a source for this please? If Turbine has said that, I'm surprised that it hasn't been linked in the multiple threads talking about this graph.
    Why does it have to be a source from Turbine? If it can be independently tested and functionally verified why does it have to come from Turbine? Even if it did come from Turbine why would you be more inclined to believe them than anyone else? You're acting like a petulant child at this point. I already specifically pointed you to the thread. Post 34 couldn't be any more clear. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...4-Server-Stats
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
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  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Why does it have to be a source from Turbine? If it can be independently tested and functionally verified why does it have to come from Turbine? Even if it did come from Turbine why would you be more inclined to believe them than anyone else? You're acting like a petulant child at this point. I already specifically pointed you to the thread. Post 34 couldn't be any more clear. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...4-Server-Stats
    That guy can't even decide what the numbers are. He also showed no testing, but speculated a ton. Facts! lol...

    Why are you arguing this anyways? You keep trying to insult me while arguing pointless stuff about a game you don't play. Do you think you're acting like an intelligent adult here? You can't even admit that you don't know the facts. You can't be nearly as educated as you think you are if you actually think you are providing facts.

    Also, the conclusion to the testi.g he didn't show: " I may be mistaken, those exceptional servers could be a proof it is not that easy and both log files and graphs are about something different than login data."

    Did you even read that post?
    Last edited by Cirgellon; Jun 27 2013 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    He also showed no testing, but speculated a ton.
    Probably because "testing" is something you can do on your own using few brain cells and a piece of paper. Do you want a youtube video of that "shown"? Given how whining about *other* people using hyperbole and semantics is so popular on these forums, your liberal use of "a ton" and "speculation" (probably the most desperate "sensu largo" around) looks slightly keetle-potting too.

    The whole idea of that exercise was approaching the data from PoV of the purest layman possible. And even then it was so simple you have to make a significant effort to pretend those numbers behaved differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    "I may be mistaken, those exceptional servers could be a proof it is not that easy and both log files and graphs are about something different than login data."
    If you want to place all of your hopes on literally two - three servers that behave exceptionally, you have another thing coming. Feel free to present a better idea than those few servers operating on "preferred" status and therefore showing different numbers than graphs. (Unless you believe graphs pull data in real time, not from time to time, creating discrepancy.) I didn't try simply because of layman's approach - so it's hilarious "professional" would want to adopt the same tactics merely because it supports a position in a discussion.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Essefen View Post
    Yep. Those whose hearts lean toward story, roleplaying and lore don't care too much about loot, PvP garbage and raiding junk, other than to see any good loot as a bonus, not a requirement.
    I'm one of those people, sort of. While I think you've got a bit of a false dichotomy going on, I have continued playing this game because of my friends, and because of the story.

    Only the writing has generally gotten progressively worse over the last few releases (Great River notwithstanding), with the exception of the Epic. Wildermore's Epic, though, has started demonstrating that same trend.

    That was one of my main points - this poor writing is a major contributor to population drop-off.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Can you cite a source for this please? If Turbine has said that, I'm surprised that it hasn't been linked in the multiple threads talking about this graph.

    That isn't how it works on any of the servers at my job.
    The steps of the login process are thus

    1.Enter User Name & Password
    2.Authenticate
    3.Gather Subscription Data
    4.Select Subscription.
    5.Get World List & Status
    6.(assuming there are worlds open to you with your subscription status [it matters for beta and not for live if not banned]) Select World & click 'Enter
    7.'Getting in line to connect'
    8.Arrive at character select.

    #7 is where the number goes up by 1 per login. All players do this.

    If needed I can provide a screenshot of step #7.
    Presumably this number is used so they know which connection to clean up in the event of a reconnect, etc.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    #7 is where the number goes up by 1 per login. All players do this.

    If needed I can provide a screenshot of step #7.
    I've got a better idea: let's wait until Cir... someone provides a video of logging in without affecting that number at all

    Until that happens, any (still non-existing) ideas about something more being included in those numbers could only mean one thing: that "real" and "pure" login graphs should be even lower.

    (But I guess these have to be "speculations" as well, after all that's how we call anything that leads in undesirable direction.)
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jun 30 2013 at 01:54 PM.

  12. #137
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    Well, whatever it is, it is going to get worse.

    Engineering effort is spent on a total revamp of all classes, something I have never seen anyone ask for, instead of polishing the product, making endgame instances in time for expansions and fixing bugs, including heavy bugs such as Draigoch.

    This expensive class revamp is bound to piss off even more existing players. Likely it will dumb down the game, but even if not, large code changes have bugs so thing won't work smooth for a while. Turbine already said that balance in the moors will be hosed for a while and will have to wait to be repaired later (not based on beta testing).

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darmokk View Post
    Well, whatever it is, it is going to get worse.

    Engineering effort is spent on a total revamp of all classes, something I have never seen anyone ask for, instead of polishing the product, making endgame instances in time for expansions and fixing bugs, including heavy bugs such as Draigoch.

    This expensive class revamp is bound to piss off even more existing players. Likely it will dumb down the game, but even if not, large code changes have bugs so thing won't work smooth for a while. Turbine already said that balance in the moors will be hosed for a while and will have to wait to be repaired later (not based on beta testing).
    For someone extremely critical of Turbine, i have to say that there is a good chance they can pull it off well... I say that because i think they realize that there is no way they can take money directly from our pockets with this class revamp.... I think this is one of those flash-backs from the non money grubbing era of Lotro....

    A class revamp is refreshing and im sure almost every class could use the change... WoW has half the skills Lotro has and its in no way dumbed down in comparison to lotro.... Atm i have skills that i could go without. And the UI is packed.... The revamp is a good thing.....
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  14. #139
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    Am I the only one who's thought it slightly ironic a thread about so few people coming back would have nearly 10,000 views?
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  15. #140
    Not sure if coming back to forums matters

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_toad View Post
    Am I the only one who's thought it slightly ironic a thread about so few people coming back would have nearly 10,000 views?
    "maybe" its because sooo many people have noticed exactly what I did

  17. #142
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    I was surprised at the high number of views also, but as is often the case, a few people want to bicker back and forth, off topic. I suspect they are most of the views. It's difficult to always be correct if you don't keep monitoring everybody else who is also correct.

    Sigh.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidster View Post
    I was surprised at the high number of views also, but as is often the case, a few people want to bicker back and forth, off topic. I suspect they are most of the views. It's difficult to always be correct if you don't keep monitoring everybody else who is also correct.

    Sigh.
    I don't doubt lots of those views are coming from the bickerers. Still, there are lots of pc games I've liked over the years that are now basically dead. When I visit their forums, it's obviously evident that those games are dead. When I visit these forums, I see a game that's healthy and alive, based on the forums traffic.

    I'm starting to have this vague suspicion that some (not all) of the most nasty, vehement forum trolls spend a decent amount of money on this game. They like it so much and they've spent so much money, that they feel the need (rightfully so in my opinion) to blast the things they don't like about this game on the forums. And they've spent so much money on this game that Turbine won't ban them on the forums unless they post something colossally inappropriate.

    So, if my logic is correct, I'm starting to appreciate some of the forum trolls because they may be spending some decent money to support this game, even though they'd never publicly admit it. I think Sapience even said that only currently-paying customers can post on these forums, even though it has to be manually checked now. So thank you forum trolls, hacks, and propagandists for supporting the LOTRO game that I love!
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  19. #144
    While I had been around for u11, I am cancelling my subscription as I'm less and less motivated to play lotro. I had gotten it to get access to various areas while I got my main to 85, but now that it is, what do I have left to do... grind dailies. That's it. Not only is it completely inconsistent with what the rest of game is like, it's also excruciating in that Wildermore is an incomprehensible lagfest (1 FPS during warbands on very low quality on a PC that can run Bioshock Infinite on max settings).

    I'm not in an uber pro-raider kin so I won't ever get to do half of the instance and I'll never get the end game gear. I'm lvling alts but going through old, abandoned low lvl areas that look like they were designed in 1994 to do quests and deeds I've already done is just sad and boring. The lore aspect that attracted me to this game in the first place has mostly gone with the constant BUY BUY BUY messages. I have little to look forward to in terms of development since all dev talks and updates show that things that players do care about and ask for are being completely ignored in favor of more schemes to get money or weirdly fixing things that aren't broken.
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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    While I had been around for u11, I am cancelling my subscription as I'm less and less motivated to play lotro. I had gotten it to get access to various areas while I got my main to 85, but now that it is, what do I have left to do... grind dailies. That's it. Not only is it completely inconsistent with what the rest of game is like, it's also excruciating in that Wildermore is an incomprehensible lagfest (1 FPS during warbands on very low quality on a PC that can run Bioshock Infinite on max settings).

    I'm not in an uber pro-raider kin so I won't ever get to do half of the instance and I'll never get the end game gear. I'm lvling alts but going through old, abandoned low lvl areas that look like they were designed in 1994 to do quests and deeds I've already done is just sad and boring. The lore aspect that attracted me to this game in the first place has mostly gone with the constant BUY BUY BUY messages. I have little to look forward to in terms of development since all dev talks and updates show that things that players do care about and ask for are being completely ignored in favor of more schemes to get money or weirdly fixing things that aren't broken.
    Pretty much all the reasons I'm leaving. My sub ends on the 31st and I'll be canceling then. I have 9 level 85's and after getting them there there is nothing to do except grind. Also there is the bugs they won't fix, they say they do but they don't, the lag, the greed. I log in every other day to see what my kinnies need that I have and give it to them.

    Found my new home in Rift, no crashes, no lag, the devs actually talk to you in game and in the forums. It's free to play but I bought the full version. And you don't see GIMME GIMME GIMME everywhere you go.

    They should rename this game "Turbine, Lords of Greed".

  21. #146
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    Personally ( been playing since launch with ~a year break total in between ) i am still trying to realise what happened to this game.
    I remember being convinced to follow Lotro till Mordor or even further.
    Not anymore , kin dead , friend list dead + bad game. Not a sheep Turbine , sorry.
    If you want to sell , make decent content first.

    A properly announced/advertised SoA/MoM server with no lag/store would propably get more players than the most populated server atm. And i feel like this is an underestimation.Propably 'more player than all servers combined' would fit better.
    Perhaps i'd miss Rohan music but that's it.

    Last year has been awful , and the worst part is that there is no hope for the future.

    Back to the books/movies. Digital middle earth is dead for me.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliaf View Post
    i can see only one reason; while turbine is blindly going in the same direction as it always was (money and more money without much effort <i.e mithril coins, lailas market etc, etc.) all other games are noticing that people are no longer willing to pay shed loads of money to play/enjoy them more (look: swtor (gone f2p) rift (going F2P <really free to play; as in: all content available, minor game bonuses available for real money) aand i cant be bothered to write the full list here but have a flick through the internet and im sure you'll find many examples. End of. can you imagine how little people will play this game after a bigger and better game (rift) goes free to play? and you dont have to pay for ANY instances/zones/quests. it will be a nightmare for people at turbine if they dont do something about it QUICK, if its not too late already. im not hating...just stating my own, and my fellow in game friends' opinions..its sad really..to spoil te beautiful world of tolkien like that

    EDIT: typos

    Ok I don't think the stuff they have made available to buy in the store has any bearing on the the fact folks have left in droves. I Had to leave Arkenstone due to lack of folks at any level.

    I know play on Meneldor and the game is loaded with free to play peps and I will say it so frustrating it worst then having nobody. I get Klingons tapping me all the time still in intro gear I hate it. I have been trying to form a kin there for premium and VIP players to do much of the older passed over content and raids and in to months I found 1 so far but I could recruit 20 free to play that don't last a day.

    There reason everyone leaving is the game has no challenge anymore it down right a bore Open tapping game, nerfing that is why those of us that can leave and leave behind all those that can't.

    I came here from DDO by far is is much more difficult I took longer to plan my toon then most guys last here but I stayed and invested a lot of money in that game. I came here 2 years ago to play this game with my wife over that 2 years things like Craft xp, Open tapping, Festival Xp and last but not least Game Nerfing I think is the main reasons for the decline of this game as a whole
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  23. #148
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    Its just percieved decline, its not actually happening according to Turbine here is the link:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...very-different

    So no you guys are wrong.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Its just percieved decline, its not actually happening according to Turbine here is the link:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...very-different

    So no you guys are wrong.
    Oh, some other guys says it's just perceived, and since his post was longer, he must be right!
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Oh, some other guys says it's just perceived, and since his post was longer, he must be right!
    Good joke, but Sapience jumped in that thread, Im leaning to believe there is no decline.

    Post lenght has nothing to do if you are right or wrong.

 

 
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