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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    They could always go back to lowered computer specs needed to play.

    That pushed me away big time.

    These days I use a computer mainly for work instead of mainly for game. When I want to play, I run with minimum everything or the machine overheats. It means everything looks like shapeless, fuzzy dough.

    What drove the final nail in was the 4 day maintenance around new year's, I've since been logged on perhaps 10 times.

    Work has another side-issue that is also a very big deal for me personally:
    Two years ago, hunter was the only character I could play without incessant clicking.
    Incessant clicking makes my arm turn numb and then explode with pain.
    And YAY WOO there was remote looting! Less clicking! Yee-haaw!
    Sadly, in the meantime hunter gameplay had changed. To retain the same damage output, a hunter has to self-buff all the time. These buffs run out at seemingly random intervals. There's an extra click every 15 sec I think, and every 25 sec too (so there's a click at 0 15 25 30 45 50 60 and so on, no logic to the clicking, no flow) and one every 3 minutes (I think...not sure what that fav class of mine must do any more).

    I am unable to play unless I gimp it and deal less damage.

    Until one or two updates ago, my hunter was still dealing OK damage: precision stance meant I never ever missed a skill. Now precision stance has nothing to do with chance to hit (with that name!) and so that perk went.

    In short: the only class I could play while retaining health became a keymasher and the pretty game I knew which ran perfectly on a half decent machine now needs either 1K euro more hardware or I'd have to accept it looks like trash.

    Ugly game, unplayable class.

    Let me add that during the transition of hunter from smooth damage-dealer to bizarre gimp, I have not been asked to log on my hunter for an instance.

    For two years I have had to beg to get invited or I had to rely on kinship. Even in kin people grumbled when adding a hunter instead of a champ for DD.
    Having read another thread here, it seems the problem is in overly detailed environment design. Massive skins. Little extras that use up lots of resources.

    Fields outside Snowbourn look boring. No feeling. It's like having a slightly OCD coder design the areas, no real feeling of mystery or sense of exploring...just endless detailed stuff with stuff on top and stuff behind. The Shire has a great feel to it without the need for endless detail. Possibly even due to the lack of perfect detail. Old Bree looked OK - new Bree looks fine but the added textures eats my RAM. The houses are clearly more important than the gameplay, the trees and the grass too, fences and stonework, stones and patches of dirt: they all had more love than the face of my elf or the seams between my armor parts. Remember the drumstick legs pants? Those didn't even align with the character feet. Shoddy and hasty and with no quality.

    Me and my characters and my characters' movement and my gameplay just are not as important as that perfectly rendered wall in the distance.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngieMFAK77 View Post
    De Ja Vu for me all over again, I just joined this game, loving it as a newbie, problem is these forums are making me realise that this game is going exactly the same way as the last MMO I loved, Star Wars Galaxies, everything I read here is the same, Turbine been taking lessons from Sony Online Entertainment? Their attitudes seem to mirror each other.
    This game will close next year, I can feel it in my water.
    You might be right if you didnt forget to consider one important factor. Tolkien. I have been playing this game for more then 3 years and in that time i have seen that the biggest reason LOTRO is going "steady" is because of the back story. If im going to be frank i dont really believe they thought they would do as well as they did. 10 years to get to Mordor? 6 years to get close to the end of book 1? Cmon.
    It seems to me they were lucky to obtain the licence and said to them selves: "lets see how far we can take this".
    Take away Tolkien and with what are you left with?

    I find Lotr enthusiasts being far more supportive then anyone is willing to admit.
    And then again you forget to mention that Galaxies was being replaced by SWTOR. Cannot know for sure how long Galaxies would have endured if that wasnt the case.

    Also expecting to see Helms deep, Gondor, the epic battles that occured there is something that is bringing players back and keeping them here.. If they mess up The battle of helms deep, you can be sure that it will hurt them more then anything so far.
    Last edited by zagreb000; Jun 20 2013 at 10:10 AM.

  3. #103
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    I can only comment on what I know, and what I know is update 11 ruined PVMP so bad many players cant log in anymore. Its totally unbalanced and will not be fixed till.... NEXT YEAR !! lol wow, so anyways aside from that other pvmp players also quit once they ruined the kill deeds in the moors for titles. Now any raid baby monkey can get all the titles by licking the number 1 key between cleaning up the drool running down their cheek. great work... worth paying for.

  4. #104

    SOOOOO sad

    I am having a hard time logging in. No one is ever on and play is stale and boring. No raiding.... BLAH BLAH BLAH...... I am very close to canceling my VIP. GAME SORT OF SUCKS NOW

  5. #105
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    118
    whats worse than the current sad state of endgame in lotro is the announcement that not only will helms deep ship with ZERO new endgame (sorry gimmick lvl 10 session play does not cut it) but that there is NONE even in development. which means once again no decent multi boss raid until the xpack after helms deep if ever. upon hearing this my, like many raiding guilds on the largest server in lotro folded as the majority of players quit. GG lotro group play in this massive MULTIPLAYER game is all but dead

  6. #106
    Cirgellon!...... turn the lights off when you leave plz.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    ...Galaxies was being replaced by SWTOR.
    I want replacement for Lotro

    Just give it up turbine, you're not capable of pulling it off anymore.

  8. #108
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    891
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Then find a better server if you want to do this stuff. If not, take a break from the game. It is pretty clear that some of you could use it. Yes, I know people will complain no matter what happens. That is just how some people are.

    Brandywine hasn't had a decline in any of that. The AH has a lot more stuff than pre Wildermore. All of the Wildermore crafted stuff is on there. There are also a lot more FA symbols and horse lords stuff. There are a ton of the barter items that are only gotten from these raids that you claim aren't being run. There is another thread asking about servers. People in there claimed there are recommended servers that are pretty full in new areas. I see lots of new people asking questions on Bramdywine. A few have joined my kin.

    I'm not lucky that my kin is getting people. We were losing people for the same reason your kins are. The guys who put events, instances, and raids together, stopped playing as much. People started leaving because the kin didn't do anything anymore. About two months ago, a few of us decided to change that. I started putting raids together at least three nights a week. Since then, we are getting tons of new people. We are getting a person or two every week just from pugging a couple spots in instances/raids. People leave inactive kins or just reached cap recently without a kin. So I get it. Your kin decided to die because no one is doing anything about it. I see it all the time. This makes the game look dead to you. It won't make this "the game is dying" rant true though. I have been seeing that since I started playing.
    Your argument is six years old. Turbine resorting to desperately bribing its players to login, ISN'T.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlunderBunny View Post
    I haven't noticed it on my server. We had so many people on warbands last weekend that the lag was kicking in with all the spinning horses and flying spells. Saw plenty of people in towns as well. Seems like Bree has gotten busier, too. I don't expect a big influx until HD. Until then populations will wax and wane.
    This has been my experience as well. I agree with you about the populations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    ......

    Some people grow bored of games and move on. Find new friends. This game has been out for what? 7 years? There is no way to stop players from growing tired of it after that long. I honestly can't imagine how any lifer is still here. No game has ever held my attention that long. .....
    I bolded your comment above because I agree with them completely and it gave me a good laugh. Yeah, I've been playing since summer of 2007 and sometimes I wonder why I haven't gotten more bored. Probably because I love the lore of middle-earth and think LOTRO is a very fun game. I still need to take breaks for 3-6 months every year or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Then find a better server if you want to do this stuff. If not, take a break from the game. It is pretty clear that some of you could use it. Yes, I know people will complain no matter what happens. That is just how some people are. ......
    This gave me a good laugh too, in a good way. Some people, yah gotta love em, just like to complain. There's nothing wrong with that. My personality has plenty of quirks too.

    If you're new to the forums, what you have to realize is that since 2007, at various times people have been saying that certain server populations have been declining, this game isn't doing anything for "x" play style, that LOTRO is about to end, that LOTRO has some fatal flaws, blah blah blah blah blah. So these complaints and doom-saying have been going on for years ever since the game launched.

    If this game lasts another 5 years, mark my words that there will be the exact same complaints and doomsaying just from different forum posters. It's human nature. It's part of online gaming communities. The vast majority of people who are playing this game are enjoying it online in the game on the live servers. Only a minority comes to complain on the forums -- so on the forums you are going to get a "skewed" view sometimes. I try to post here because I do still enjoy the game and want to represent that viewpoint.

    The only fact that is relevant here is that LOTRO has gone on for over 6 years now. That's a real accomplishment and kudos to all the people at Turbine who've worked so hard to make this game good enough to last over 6 years. Kudos to the positive members of the community who make this game a special place to be in. And kudos to all the constructive complainers who want this game to be better.
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  10. #110
    Played for over 5 years. Lifetime sub. Loved end game raiding. Can't be bothered to even look at Wildermore becaue end game content has been abandoned what what seems like a year gap (Helm's Deep won't offer it sadly)

    So I play RIFT now. Great raiding, better coding. More serious about offering engaging content. I could easily enjoy it for free but choose to keep paying sub fee because I like the added bonuses. You can not pay to get the top end gear. You can only pay to rush towards raid readiness. I like this policy.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000b1e1a/signature.png]Kangas[/charsig]
    [URL="http://helmsdeep.guildportal.com"]Helm's Deep[/URL] Kangas-Captain Kangdoom-Champ Furtive-Burg Wildlife-Hunter

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_toad View Post
    If you're new to the forums, what you have to realize is that since 2007, at various times people have been saying that certain server populations have been declining, this game isn't doing anything for "x" play style, that LOTRO is about to end, that LOTRO has some fatal flaws, blah blah blah blah blah. So these complaints and doom-saying have been going on for years ever since the game launched.

    If this game lasts another 5 years, mark my words that there will be the exact same complaints and doomsaying just from different forum posters. It's human nature. It's part of online gaming communities. The vast majority of people who are playing this game are enjoying it online in the game on the live servers. Only a minority comes to complain on the forums -- so on the forums you are going to get a "skewed" view sometimes. I try to post here because I do still enjoy the game and want to represent that viewpoint.

    The only fact that is relevant here is that LOTRO has gone on for over 6 years now. That's a real accomplishment and kudos to all the people at Turbine who've worked so hard to make this game good enough to last over 6 years. Kudos to the positive members of the community who make this game a special place to be in. And kudos to all the constructive complainers who want this game to be better.
    And there will always be people who don't think any further than "Well, there have always been complaints, so the game must be as good as ever."

    You can ignore the content of the complaints if you'd like, but the game is definitely declining for certain playstyles. It doesn't take a forum thread to see that endgame grouping is just about dead for anyone who doesn't think that Sambrog is the height of game entertainment. I'm happy for you if you can continue to enjoy it, and if your playstyle is unchanged, but don't be condescending toward the people whose game is being changed into something they don't like. There are *plenty* of valid complaints on this site, whether or not you play in such a way that they'd be noticeable.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webgiant View Post
    I see most of the complaints coming from people who seem to think MMOs are interchangeable. LOTRO's biggest lure for me is that it is based on actual literature, and therefore one cannot simply come up with random new material in all directions (a land of pandas? really?). Plus the sheer enjoyment of being able to walk around inside LOTR's world makes the endless fetch quests much more tolerable than if the worlds weren't just random very slowly created ROGUE-like worlds. Plus Seraph5 is quite right that LOTRO makes an effort with the graphics, the color, the total 360 degrees camera view, and the real "sandbox" quality of the world. Too many MMOs which are bad on the eyes, force you to put up with the camera angles of "Tomb Raider", and throw up way more invisible walls and impassable 3 foot fences. If we were only playing for the good writing and not for the graphics and movement options, we'd still be playing text-based MMOs.
    I second this.
    The only people who are leaving LOTRO are the online gamer types who jump around between MMOs - viewing it only in terms of game mechanics and product delivery rather than in terms of what makes LOTRO unique: an immersive, fully fleshed-out world of Tolkien's literature coming to life.

    For every enraged dissatisfied gamer that quits, LOTRO gains a drove of new players who were drawn to it because of that literature connection - not because of shiny "endgame" action/loot/gear, but because this game is the Middle Earth playground. This fact alone - the Middle Earth factor - is enough to retain these players.
    I myself have started playing LOTRO only a year ago, and for this very reason. The non-commitment free-to-play mechanic is what prompted me to give it a try; since then I have found the game so satisfying that I went VIP and that's where I am now. I continue to be impressed with the landscapes and the story-writing, and if I find myself doing 'menial' quests where the writing doesn't shine as much, I make my own stories to keep me entertained as I go along, rather than complain about it on the forums... We have been given the tools (the immersive environment/landscape "sandbox"), it's up to us how we choose to fill it.
    Then again, I am a reader and not a gamer, so what do I know

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    I second this.
    The only people who are leaving LOTRO are the online gamer types who jump around between MMOs - viewing it only in terms of game mechanics and product delivery rather than in terms of what makes LOTRO unique: an immersive, fully fleshed-out world of Tolkien's literature coming to life.
    Leaving is subjective. I left the game a few weeks ago and havent logged in since. I really dont have anything to do. Dont enjoy the raiding any more, dont enjoy PvMP anymore and i have experienced almost everything you are talking about. I completed almost every raid, got the meta goats i wanted a long time ago, read every quest i ever did.....So i replaced playing the game for these forums. I find it much more enjoyable, atm, to talk about improvements, ideas, the past and the future of the game...... Im not really gone....

    Tolkiens work is the thing that makes this game unique. No one will argue against that and for only that reason i will be buying the expansion. But i will probably quit the game again after a month or two, if it stays the same, because i dont find the end-game fulfilling anymore.... End game is the thing keeping players interested for a long period of time. Ofc then there are those that repeat content over and over again.......And thats the whole problem for me. Back at 65 i played the game constantly for 10 months because there was always something interesting, challenging, to do. Im missing that and so are a lot of other players......

    So yeah, a story alone cannot make a game good.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    I second this.
    The only people who are leaving LOTRO are the online gamer types who jump around between MMOs - viewing it only in terms of game mechanics and product delivery rather than in terms of what makes LOTRO unique: an immersive, fully fleshed-out world of Tolkien's literature coming to life.

    For every enraged dissatisfied gamer that quits, LOTRO gains a drove of new players who were drawn to it because of that literature connection - not because of shiny "endgame" action/loot/gear, but because this game is the Middle Earth playground. This fact alone - the Middle Earth factor - is enough to retain these players.
    Well, the login numbers don't support your theory that for every MMOer that leaves a drove fo Tolkienites join.

    Most of my kinship has abandoned the game. We were all originally attracted to LoTRO for the lore, and for most of us it was our first and only MMO. Sadly, the game became too sucky to continue playing, so now we are MMO hopers for the first time in our gaming history.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen1981 View Post
    this update was pathetic why would anyone wanna come back for solo content its why i been playing rift lately
    Every story in every movie must really suck for you unless you have 5 people glued to your hip.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Well, the login numbers don't support your theory that for every MMOer that leaves a drove fo Tolkienites join.
    And you have some secret access to Turbines login server so you know with %100 accuracy the "login numbers"? Oh wait, you're just basing it on personal viewpoint and the time you play.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    I second this.
    The only people who are leaving LOTRO are the online gamer types who jump around between MMOs - viewing it only in terms of game mechanics and product delivery rather than in terms of what makes LOTRO unique: an immersive, fully fleshed-out world of Tolkien's literature coming to life.

    For every enraged dissatisfied gamer that quits, LOTRO gains a drove of new players who were drawn to it because of that literature connection - not because of shiny "endgame" action/loot/gear, but because this game is the Middle Earth playground. This fact alone - the Middle Earth factor - is enough to retain these players.
    I myself have started playing LOTRO only a year ago, and for this very reason. The non-commitment free-to-play mechanic is what prompted me to give it a try; since then I have found the game so satisfying that I went VIP and that's where I am now. I continue to be impressed with the landscapes and the story-writing, and if I find myself doing 'menial' quests where the writing doesn't shine as much, I make my own stories to keep me entertained as I go along, rather than complain about it on the forums... We have been given the tools (the immersive environment/landscape "sandbox"), it's up to us how we choose to fill it.
    Then again, I am a reader and not a gamer, so what do I know
    You and the post you quoted are the only voices of logic in this thread. The tiny %1 of the server population or whatever that scream loudly on these forums seem to think they are "most players". lol

    Yep. Those whose hearts lean toward story, roleplaying and lore don't care too much about loot, PvP garbage and raiding junk, other than to see any good loot as a bonus, not a requirement.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Essefen View Post
    The tiny %1 of the server population or whatever
    whose hearts lean toward story, roleplaying and lore don't care too much about loot, PvP garbage and raiding junk, other than to see any good loot as a bonus, not a requirement.

    Works this way too.

    Unless it's totally like with "most of Tolkien fans", who are in it solely for linguistic games and medieval literature, communicating in Quenya. Oh, wait...

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Essefen View Post
    And you have some secret access to Turbines login server so you know with 0 accuracy the "login numbers"?
    Yeah, but it's really not a secret. People have been posting the login stats for years now. Take a look for yourself. Here is a plot of the logins on the the original non-European servers since 2010. As you can see, we hit an all time low in early June and have seen a little increase since then.

    http://wavehh.dyndns.org/lo2/plot-cool-mean.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Essefen View Post
    Oh wait, you're just basing it on personal viewpoint and the time you play.
    Nope, just basing it on the facts. I don't play at all anymore so I really couldn't base my assertion on any first-hand anecdotal observations.
    Last edited by bastiat1; Jun 27 2013 at 02:18 PM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Yeah, but it's really not a secret. People have been posting the login stats for years now. Take a look for yourself. Here is a plot of the logins on the the original non-European servers since 2010. As you can see, we hit an all time low in early June and have seen a little increase since then.

    http://wavehh.dyndns.org/lo2/plot-cool-mean.html



    Nope, just basing it on the facts. I don't play at all anymore so I really couldn't base my assertion on any first-hand anecdotal observations.
    Can you provide proof of the information that Turbine doesn't release? Do you even know what these graphs are showing and how they come up with these numbers? I'm interested in seeing if you really know what a fact is.

    Also, just a friendly heads up, you should watch what you post. Sapience said in another thread that these forums are only for active players. Ex-players get banned. They just have a hard time finding ex-players with f2p. The forums used to ban you automatically when your subscription expired before f2p. You are making it easy for them when you tell them you don't play.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by McVicar View Post
    Cirgellon!...... turn the lights off when you leave plz.
    Will do! lol

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    I second this.
    The only people who are leaving LOTRO are the online gamer types who jump around between MMOs - viewing it only in terms of game mechanics and product delivery rather than in terms of what makes LOTRO unique: an immersive, fully fleshed-out world of Tolkien's literature coming to life.

    For every enraged dissatisfied gamer that quits, LOTRO gains a drove of new players who were drawn to it because of that literature connection - not because of shiny "endgame" action/loot/gear, but because this game is the Middle Earth playground. This fact alone - the Middle Earth factor - is enough to retain these players.
    I myself have started playing LOTRO only a year ago, and for this very reason. The non-commitment free-to-play mechanic is what prompted me to give it a try; since then I have found the game so satisfying that I went VIP and that's where I am now. I continue to be impressed with the landscapes and the story-writing, and if I find myself doing 'menial' quests where the writing doesn't shine as much, I make my own stories to keep me entertained as I go along, rather than complain about it on the forums... We have been given the tools (the immersive environment/landscape "sandbox"), it's up to us how we choose to fill it.
    Then again, I am a reader and not a gamer, so what do I know
    While I'm a big reader myself, I don't often find myself with a real feeling of being connected to Middle Earth or lore outside the lower level zones. It takes a very active imagination to keep up the suspension of disbelief--you can make up stories all you want, but you could be doing the same in any setting. Moria was the last zone that was anything like I imagined it to be, after reading Tolkien all those years. Outside the actual tower of Isengard, Dunland, Great River, Rohan, and Wildermore don't inspire any sort of Middle Earth vibe for me. It could have been 1400s Ireland. Or, with all the walking skeletons, an Evil Dead MMO.

    LOTRO was my first MMO, and in a couple months, will have likely been my last.

    Plenty of people leave the game who aren't just your typical new-MMO junkie, despite your assertions otherwise. And judging by the lack of population growth since F2P launched, your other guess is incorrect as well. Veteran players are getting bored, despite how cool the Shire is. And there are certainly not "droves" of lore junkies picking up the slack. Maybe people attracted by "Free", but the turnover rate for them is high as well.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Can you provide proof of the information that Turbine doesn't release? Do you even know what these graphs are showing and how they come up with these numbers? I'm interested in seeing if you really know what a fact is.
    The numbers are game server Logins per Minute which is displayed on the chart. The particular chart that I posted was for the original North American game servers. That chart is the most relevant because it excludes the conflating effects of the European migration and retirement of the Codemaster servers.

    The data comes directly from Turbine's servers via an API call and is compiled by a nice gentleman that wrote a script to continuously call and compile the data from the various servers. There is a fairly extensive discussion around the gathering of the data imbedded in this thread.

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...4-Server-Stats


    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Also, just a friendly heads up, you should watch what you post. Sapience said in another thread that these forums are only for active players. Ex-players get banned. They just have a hard time finding ex-players with f2p. The forums used to ban you automatically when your subscription expired before f2p. You are making it easy for them when you tell them you don't play.
    It would be very bad form for them to ban someone who hasn't violated the ToS and who still has an active subscription. I'm sure you've heard of lifetime accounts and prepaid subscriptions and the like.


    People say that there are five stages of grief.

    1. Denial.
    2. Anger.
    3. Bargaining.
    4. Depression.
    5. Acceptance.

    I can tell you are still in the denial phase. That's okay. It's also okay to be condescending and to lash out. It doesn't bother me because it is so predictable.
    Last edited by bastiat1; Jun 27 2013 at 04:37 PM.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    So, about those ToS. I edited to make it clear though. I'm bad at typing on my phone while talking to others. Notice how you still can't explain your "facts"? Yeah, I would try to deflect too.
    I apologize but I can't lay it out any more clearly. There are some people that refuse to believe anything unless they can touch it. As an example, some people still don't believe that anyone has stepped foot on the moon because they haven't personally set foot on the moon. Similarly, some people don't believe you can use the LoTRO API to call logins and compute a simple rate per minute because they can't do it. Even though the graphs conform to most people's intuition and expectation that big spikes occurring after new releases and exponential declines thereafter, those people will deny that the "facts" exist because they aren't physically counting every login personally. It's a special brand of solipsism. In that vein I also can't "prove" that you aren't the only being in the universe and my responses are all just a concoction of your unconscious mind. But if that's the standard of evidence that you require you really won't know much of anything in this life.

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    I apologize but I can't lay it out any more clearly. There are some people that refuse to believe anything unless they can touch it. As an example, some people still don't believe that anyone has stepped foot on the moon because they haven't personally set foot on the moon. Similarly, some people don't believe you can use the LoTRO API to call logins and compute a simple rate per minute because they can't do it. Even though the graphs conform to most people's intuition and expectation that big spikes occurring after new releases and exponential declines thereafter, those people will deny that the "facts" exist because they aren't physically counting every login personally. It's a special brand of solipsism. In that vein I also can't "prove" that you aren't the only being in the universe and my responses are all just a concoction of your unconscious mind. But if that's the standard of evidence that you require you really won't know much of anything in this life.
    Notice how you still can't show this logins number? That was a great explanation of how you assume it works though.

    Again, I have seen a queue number. No one has ever been able to show any login number from that API. Your spins won't change the fact that you don't know what a fact is. "It must be true. I heard it on the internet!" Even I, with the lack of education, know what a fact is.
    Last edited by Cirgellon; Jun 27 2013 at 05:39 PM.

 

 
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