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  1. #1

    Angry Add a Can't Be Defeated buff to Dying Rage!

    That's it.. The current dying rage is so useless because of recent DPS upgrades the freeps got. almost 95% of the time you dye before you do your thing with dying rage. If you have a better idea please share and please do something about it Turbine.
    Main: Krashank Rank 11 Reaver.

    Plus Rank10 BA, Rank10 Stalker, Rank7 Defiler & Rank7 Spider.

  2. #2
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    I agree, but I think the skill would need a slight rework.

    - remove the defense stats (can't die, seems silly to have them on)
    - remove the heal on the advanced trait

    maybe nurf the damage boost a little? down to 25% sound about right. also don't see why defiler doesn't also get a bonus to healing too.

    with the trait it prolongs the duration to 25s and increases the dps to 50%

    I think having a garenteed death at end justifies it being powerful while your up, 10mins compared to the captains 15mins (ignoreing set bonuses...) seems quite a fair variation for the reaver.

    I'd also love the idea of this being used in conjuction with the bubble, a real anti-zerg class
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    I agree, but I think the skill would need a slight rework.

    - remove the defense stats (can't die, seems silly to have them on)
    - remove the heal on the advanced trait

    maybe nurf the damage boost a little? down to 25% sound about right. also don't see why defiler doesn't also get a bonus to healing too.

    with the trait it prolongs the duration to 25s and increases the dps to 50%

    I think having a garenteed death at end justifies it being powerful while your up, 10mins compared to the captains 15mins (ignoreing set bonuses...) seems quite a fair variation for the reaver.

    I'd also love the idea of this being used in conjuction with the bubble, a real anti-zerg class
    I think you have this skill confuse with another one called "Against the Odds" which is the one that gives a heal boost and has an advanced version. DR is a racial it requires the trait to work so no advanced and normal versions.
    Main: Krashank Rank 11 Reaver.

    Plus Rank10 BA, Rank10 Stalker, Rank7 Defiler & Rank7 Spider.

  4. #4
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    It's not necessary. If you can't bring the heat before you pop it, don't waste the skill.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Graycient View Post
    It's not necessary. If you can't bring the heat before you pop it, don't waste the skill.
    Given the fact that I die at the end of it, yes it is necessary especially now with freep dps. It gets popped at less than 20% of morale and chances are high I die before i get to do anything. It happens in 1vs1s let alone vs a freep bunch..
    Main: Krashank Rank 11 Reaver.

    Plus Rank10 BA, Rank10 Stalker, Rank7 Defiler & Rank7 Spider.

  6. #6
    I dropped dying rage from my defiler. I'm not the best player on the moors by a long shot but by the time it "kicked in" I was already dead. If it did "kick in" the freeps just dps'ed over it and I died before the death-timer ticked off.

    I die pretty well on my own, thanks, I don't need any extra help there. Actually, I got the dying part down pretty well now... it's the surviving part I could use some help with. I'd take a self bubble instead.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  7. #7
    Cant be defeated would be nice but lower the duration. And you would also, as said before, have to nerf some defensive and offensive abilities.

    Or we could remove the defeat on end part and just slap a heal on it instead. Tears would flow.
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  8. #8
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    Make the duration as long as you want, I'll still HIPS and laugh.
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark-EU View Post
    I think you have this skill confuse with another one called "Against the Odds" which is the one that gives a heal boost and has an advanced version. DR is a racial it requires the trait to work so no advanced and normal versions.
    lol sorry, yeah I am.

    I'd love to see think anyway.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    Make the duration as long as you want, I'll still HIPS and laugh.
    Still learning Burg survival, I see.

    It's HiPS and Map. At least that's how a good number of the ranked Burgs on Vilya do it. Laughing just makes you Warg food.

    But what does that have to do with A Reaver's DR?
    Hobbits . . .
    Now them's good eatin'!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    Make the duration as long as you want, I'll still HIPS and laugh.
    LOL, fits your character name..
    Main: Krashank Rank 11 Reaver.

    Plus Rank10 BA, Rank10 Stalker, Rank7 Defiler & Rank7 Spider.

  12. #12
    This formerly great skill is utterly defunct with the damage levels floating around out there now and is indeed in desperate need of a rework. Its always needed a rework for defilers anyway.

    Personaly i think the first thing is to seperate effects for defilers and reavers.

    For defilers the skills should give them a speed buff of 200%, make them immune to defeat (10s) then they explode on death for 2k damage in a 7.5m aoe.

    For reavers it should remove all defensive bonuses, set speed to 200%, add a cannot be defeated for duration (10s) and instigate double damage and triple all bleed durations.

    Chew on that.
    "Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
    "Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shark-EU View Post
    Given the fact that I die at the end of it, yes it is necessary especially now with freep dps. It gets popped at less than 20% of morale and chances are high I die before i get to do anything. It happens in 1vs1s let alone vs a freep bunch..
    lol I don't have a comment for that...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4j View Post
    Still learning Burg survival, I see.

    It's HiPS and Map. At least that's how a good number of the ranked Burgs on Vilya do it. Laughing just makes you Warg food.

    But what does that have to do with A Reaver's DR?

    The wargs on your server must be much better than the ones on my server. Most won't jump me, even if I un-stealth to let them start the fight.
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    The wargs on your server must be much better than the ones on my server. Most won't jump me, even if I un-stealth to let them start the fight.
    The warg packs on dwarrow, as bad as the server is in population, are quite vicious, and take burgs down in a very, very short time. And are often tracked and attacked by even 1 warg.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orisk View Post
    The warg packs on dwarrow, as bad as the server is in population, are quite vicious, and take burgs down in a very, very short time. And are often tracked and attacked by even 1 warg.
    Hmmm... sounds yummy. I may have to roll myself a warg on Dwarrow...
    lvl 105 Guardian | 93 Mini | 63 Hunter | 46 Warden | Lukiluk - r10 Warg | r6 Defiler | r6 WL

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    This formerly great skill is utterly defunct with the damage levels floating around out there now and is indeed in desperate need of a rework. Its always needed a rework for defilers anyway.

    Personaly i think the first thing is to seperate effects for defilers and reavers.

    For defilers the skills should give them a speed buff of 200%, make them immune to defeat (10s) then they explode on death for 2k damage in a 7.5m aoe.

    For reavers it should remove all defensive bonuses, set speed to 200%, add a cannot be defeated for duration (10s) and instigate double damage and triple all bleed durations.

    Chew on that.
    this literally makes zero sense. it's like you think the numbers look good on paper and haven't played the game before.
    defilers shouldnt even have dying raged, it's almost a negative incentive to rank seeing as their racials are sketchy as best.

    your suggested defiler change would likely be half mitigated, and end up leaving scuff marks on my addidas at what i assume is near to a whopping 1k damage at less range then a raging blades. also made the defensive buff removal sound like a sacrifice, in place of an invincibility buff, wat.

    triple bleed duration would be silly, but the damage buff with DR is fine and overall reavers seem to be in a decent place. realistically the defensive buff gained on DR is next to ineffective and they either need to dramatically increase it or increase the health % it's gated by. at least now there's no point in DR-ing away from a fight (one small decent change) make it a button worth hitting in something other than a 1v1 scenario, which is silly anyways.
    "death is nothing to us, for when we are.. death has not come. And when death has finally come, we are not"
    R7 Spider/R11 Reaver - R13/R11 Champion

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    this literally makes zero sense. it's like you think the numbers look good on paper and haven't played the game before.
    I've played the game on freep and creep on and off for almost 6 years. I'll respond to you without being vaguely derogatory back to you in return.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    defilers shouldnt even have dying raged, it's almost a negative incentive to rank seeing as their racials are sketchy as best.
    In its current form it is a useless racial. Changing it changes its nature, qed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    your suggested defiler change would likely be half mitigated, and end up leaving scuff marks on my addidas at what i assume is near to a whopping 1k damage at less range then a raging blades. also made the defensive buff removal sound like a sacrifice, in place of an invincibility buff, wat.
    Ok defilers are not champions, thanks for making an inane comparision between champ skills and this example. The mitigated damage would not be designed to automaticaly kill every freep around them. Its simply an improvement in the skill and in group and rvr would make the skill a high damage (yes high, for creeps 2k is high) aoe skill in return for an inevitable death.

    If I had suggested it be as extreme as raging blades, that would have been silly. In 1v1 situations a defiler is either going to be in control with its healing or over dps'd, in which case its healing spam will not have made a dent into the free opponent and in either situation a 2k explosion is not going to be relevant, then again dying rage is not relevent in virtually every 1v1 anyway.

    I am sorry that you read it that i was suggesting the removal of defensive buffs was a sacrifice.... it obviously isn't in return for a last stand effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    triple bleed duration would be silly, but the damage buff with DR is fine and overall reavers seem to be in a decent place. realistically the defensive buff gained on DR is next to ineffective and they either need to dramatically increase it or increase the health % it's gated by. at least now there's no point in DR-ing away from a fight (one small decent change) make it a button worth hitting in something other than a 1v1 scenario, which is silly anyways.
    Reavers are in a decent place... mm.. and... the changing of this skill to enhance its defeat effect would not break that situation.

    They die anyway when its used.. this would simply enable them to give a higher output of damage guaranteed rather than have a second or two to blink out a bit of additional dps. Tripling bleed duration would be shiney as it adds a post death legacy from the reaver when it drops, not much to ask for a death. Imagine if your said champ died everytime its second bubble expired. Giving reavers as the principal creep melee the kind of survivabilty freeps enjoy is not that game breaking in return for death really is it.

    My suggestion could be descibed as ambitious, sure, but saying silly without giving any contrary argument of substance is amusing.
    "Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
    "Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    The wargs on your server must be much better than the ones on my server. Most won't jump me, even if I un-stealth to let them start the fight.
    Or our Burgs are much worse . . .
    Hobbits . . .
    Now them's good eatin'!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orisk View Post
    The warg packs on dwarrow, as bad as the server is in population, are quite vicious, and take burgs down in a very, very short time. And are often tracked and attacked by even 1 warg.

    I get destroyed by Warg packs when they find me, which isn't very often. Not sure if there just aren't a lot of warg packs on Imladris, or I just never run into them.

    Quote Originally Posted by l4j View Post
    Or our Burgs are much worse . . .

    Fair point.
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    Reavers are in a decent place... mm.. and... the changing of this skill to enhance its defeat effect would not break that situation.

    They die anyway when its used.. this would simply enable them to give a higher output of damage guaranteed rather than have a second or two to blink out a bit of additional dps. Tripling bleed duration would be shiney as it adds a post death legacy from the reaver when it drops, not much to ask for a death. Imagine if your said champ died everytime its second bubble expired. Giving reavers as the principal creep melee the kind of survivabilty freeps enjoy is not that game breaking in return for death really is it.

    My suggestion could be descibed as ambitious, sure, but saying silly without giving any contrary argument of substance is amusing.
    DR resets all skills anyways last I recall, the damage boost then applies to the bleeds so if the reaver has half a brain he'll reapply them anyways for the impale, lengthening them is unnecessary.

    Defilers DR shouldn't need a damaging aspect, either. Perhaps more along the lines of a quitters-never-win substantial heal/powerheal would suffice to make it worth the death.
    "death is nothing to us, for when we are.. death has not come. And when death has finally come, we are not"
    R7 Spider/R11 Reaver - R13/R11 Champion

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    DR resets all skills anyways last I recall, the damage boost then applies to the bleeds so if the reaver has half a brain he'll reapply them anyways for the impale, lengthening them is unnecessary.

    Defilers DR shouldn't need a damaging aspect, either. Perhaps more along the lines of a quitters-never-win substantial heal/powerheal would suffice to make it worth the death.
    Oh Bless you came back.

    Oook Impale is not aoe, some of the bleeds are so they are going to be ticking away even if the reaver does use impale.. your obsessed with these bleeds being both irrelevant and a principal objection to my suggestion. There is nothing wrong in tripling the bleed length as an added bonus under dying rage. Thats for people with the other half of the brain.

    You began with defilers shouldn't even have dying rage, now you add defilers shouldn't need a damaging aspect (thats the damage you were previously saying would not even scuff your addidas).

    Why should defilers not go boom. Is it some kind of fixed mindset that no creep healing toon should be able to kick out any dps under any circumstances? Some wierd double standard. Freep healers kick out plenty of dps, I suggest in return for .. wait for it automaticaly dying... they could kick out some aoe burst damage and you object firstly that its not significant enough to have and then that as a defiler they should have more healing instead.

    You are missing the point. They have plenty of healing. To make dr a useful utility make it do something wild-card. Exploding even fits with the whole fungal spores thing.

    What i detect is a strong freep point of view, probably heavily champ weighted who my suggestion appears to bother.
    "Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
    "Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    DR resets all skills anyways last I recall.
    You do not recall correctly. It resets some, but not all skills. Wish it would reset impale....
    Aklionyu - Reaver

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    You began with defilers shouldn't even have dying rage, now you add defilers shouldn't need a damaging aspect (thats the damage you were previously saying would not even scuff your addidas).
    everyone knows they shouldn't have it, that's not an unpopular opinion exactly since it's a botched skill that doesn't fit the class that was modified since defilers were introduced late. since you specifically mentioned how long you've been here, it should be readily apparent. A single unimpressive 2k aoe on a 15m CD would add nothing to the class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    Why should defilers not go boom. Is it some kind of fixed mindset that no creep healing toon should be able to kick out any dps under any circumstances? Some wierd double standard. Freep healers kick out plenty of dps, I suggest in return for .. wait for it automaticaly dying... they could kick out some aoe burst damage and you object firstly that its not significant enough to have and then that as a defiler they should have more healing instead.
    you're under the common misconception that DPS = damage, I suggest looking up the difference. Turbine has decided that creep healers don't get damage, not I. take it up with them, I'm just following their lead with suggestions since their niche seems limited to creeps linear system of class roles.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    What i detect is a strong freep point of view, probably heavily champ weighted who my suggestion appears to bother.
    hardly relevant, i just thought the suggestion was bad. skill either needs to fit the class role or just be replaced.
    "death is nothing to us, for when we are.. death has not come. And when death has finally come, we are not"
    R7 Spider/R11 Reaver - R13/R11 Champion

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by cpt_rhetoric View Post
    You do not recall correctly. It resets some, but not all skills. Wish it would reset impale....
    im actually glad it doesnt reset impale :P triple impale and triple DS would be just ridiculous. then again you shouldnt even need to use them btoh 3 times to kill anything...goddamn champs/wardens/guards/rk's/mini's
    lugbur R11 reaver /// guthfred R9 cappy /// beregon R8 hunter /// guthblade R9 champ + too many other things

 

 
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