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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Poisoning pups, really? - (Quest Returning the favor)

    Not really heroic to poisen cute warg puppies
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2621a00000014c096/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  2. #2
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    While it's not very heroic, it's much more humane to poison them than to slice them in half.

    They may only be puppies, but they're still servants of Sauron.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    While it's not very heroic, it's much more humane to poison them than to slice them in half.

    They may only be puppies, but they're still servants of Sauron.
    It is a pity that they cannot be redeemed for lore reasons. As a player of a Warg, this quest hits me right in the feelies! Were linear-quest-lines not the norm, I might have even skipped it as a form of protest!
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  4. #4
    First they take our brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers. Now they kill our children.
    And they call us the monsters....
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  5. #5
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    poisoning isn't always more humane than splitting their skulls and killing them instantly.

    Making wolves and wargs "evil" or serve evil is probably the saddest limitation in the lore. But we can have vicious bears, kitty cats, and carrion eating avians for Loremaster pets. There's tons of dragons running around in Middle Earth years after Smaug got nailed by Bard's Patriot Arrow.

    But when you see that cute furry canine, with his doggy grin, and that cute waggily tail, and start think "I will call it a warg or a wolf. Maybe it will want to be friends with me.", then ten or so of his buddies pop out of stealth and tear you limb from limb and as your blood seeps into the snow of Arador's End you think... "Yeah I fought the Balrog, I took down the Lt. of Dol Guldor, I helped throw Saruman off his tower, only to get torn apart by a pack of greenie wargs". Ironic.
    Last edited by tkroll; May 16 2013 at 03:00 PM.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  6. #6
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    At least we're not poisoning pigeons in the park.

  7. #7
    Yeah, well this was another OOPS by Turbine...

    You're loremaster dropped the ball on this one Turbine. But then again so did Peter Jackson.

    They can't possibly be warg puppies, more then likely they are dire-wolf pups or something of the sort. Why? Simple. Wargs are undead spirits that inhabit the bodies of wolves or their kin. They can't HAVE pups due to the fact that they are in essence Undead. And even if those terrible Twilight movies insist its possible, Genetics clear and solidly eliminates any chances for a corpse to be able to procreate.

    Don't believe me?

    Creatures of Middle earth, C Nov. 1988 Berkley California pg. 58 "...being artificially long-lived, undead, the spirit that inhabits a Warg's form dissipates when the body is slain. In turn the body disappears...."

    (ie skinning wargs is also in essence impossible and why in TEXT finding the corpses of the wargs that attacked the Fellowship led to naught).

    If theres TWO things I know lore wise in Tolkien land, its Wargs...and that dwarves DO NOT shoot lightning bolts...

    addendum: Theres also some stuff in Daniel Days' LOTR Bestiaries I'll scare up that eludes to Wargs 'artificial nature', assuming I can get into play this buggy patch...
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  8. #8
    "Creatures of Middle earth, C Nov. 1988 Berkley California pg. 58 '...being artificially long-lived, undead, the spirit that inhabits a Warg's form dissipates when the body is slain. In turn the body disappears....'"



    Turbine doesn't have the license for "Creatures of Middle Earth." So they have to make wargs just big wolves.

  9. #9
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    Then one day these pups you saved will grow up, kill horses, cows, goats, children and people. Besides wargs are evil
    Nerf healing in PvMP and just maybe it will be worth it again.

  10. #10
    I went back later and they were doing fine. It turns out they were only mostly dead.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oraekja View Post
    I went back later and they were doing fine. It turns out they were only mostly dead.
    And mostly dead is still partly alive.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kronocide View Post
    "Creatures of Middle earth, C Nov. 1988 Berkley California pg. 58 '...being artificially long-lived, undead, the spirit that inhabits a Warg's form dissipates when the body is slain. In turn the body disappears....'"



    Turbine doesn't have the license for "Creatures of Middle Earth." So they have to make wargs just big wolves.
    Not so sure about that. Turbine does not have the license to tell stories outside of the trilogies, but they absolutely have the right to use other material as reference for consistency. I am still playing through Wildermore and have not done the quest yet, but from the forum citations I do not think it fits, either the tone of the game or the lore.

    We are the good guys. We do not murder children. We do not use poison.
    For the sake of lore perhaps we cannot redeem them, but they need to initiate the attack for us to be justified in killing them.
    The warg pups in the cave near Isengard are a good example of us having (some) justification for killing them. They attack us first.

    Either the pups are truly just wolf pups (and therefore not integrally servants of evil) or they are Warg pups. Wargs in lore are intelligent (and capable of human speech). Juveniles of a race capable of human speech are known as children. Killing children for no action of their own is murder. We fight on the side of Good, not on the side of Evil. Murder is a tool of Evil.
    If they are just wolf pups but we must kill them anyway, poison is the wrong method.

    Why do we not use poison? Because poison is a tool of "Evil" and we will not stoop that low. Why do you think that burgs cannot coat their daggers in poison? *Hint* It's not because nobody thought of it.
    Why don't hunters have poison arrows? It would certainly make more sense then dipping the arrows in "Light Oil". Really, did I miss the whole portion of lore where it was a common ability to distill "LIQUID LIGHT?" Why have torches at all?
    Hunters don't get poison arrows because poison is "Evil".
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  13. #13
    I have to agree here... it was EXTREMELY unsettling to me, as an Elf, to be using Poison.

    Not to mention the whole "lore" aspect of Wargs, who are supposed to be undead (and therefore immune).

    I'm very unhappy with a lot of how U11 works morality wise, and can't imagine someone like MoL agreeing to this...

    Seriously Turbine?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oraekja View Post
    I went back later and they were doing fine. It turns out they were only mostly dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by tkroll View Post
    And mostly dead is still partly alive.
    With all-dead, there's only one thing you can do: go through their pockets and look for loose change.
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  15. #15
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    "A Eruchîn, ú-dano i faelas a hyn an uben tanatha le faelas!"
    guess who said it
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  16. #16
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    Yeah, because we've definitely never used poison before.

    Ever.
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  17. #17
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    They were sooo cute! I bet you could train them to become nice wargs.
    But as Oraekja suggested, I went back and had a look, they were doing fine, phew.

    I dont mind slaying evil grown up wargs but poisining cute baby-wargs felt kinda odd.
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  18. #18
    Yeah. We should let them live, grow big, attacks some farms, kill some women and children. Then cave their skulls in after all that. Right?

    No.

    It's killing no matter how you do it. Whether it be by poison or by iron, you have killed thousands and thousands of sentient creatures in this game. You murdered countless bandits and hillmen. You massacred animals right in their dens. You killed and killed and killed, just because some NPC told you to. And now you feel bad about poisoning a couple warg pups that would eat your mother alive if they had the chance?

    Morality my &&&&, you people are being hypocritical.

    Of course, this post was written within the scope of the game. Looking at it from a wider scope, it's just a damned game. Nothing is getting killed.
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  19. #19
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    This is just some elven propaganda.
    They never had stomach to do what needs to be done.
    fire rk is just hunt clone without evade, ports and lower mits, or LM clone without CC, pets and 1 less gear slot.
    thx for destroying yellow line and the entire class with it

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonwalkIntoMordor View Post
    Yeah. We should let them live, grow big, attacks some farms, kill some women and children. Then cave their skulls in after all that. Right?

    No.

    It's killing no matter how you do it. Whether it be by poison or by iron, you have killed thousands and thousands of sentient creatures in this game. You murdered countless bandits and hillmen. You massacred animals right in their dens. You killed and killed and killed, just because some NPC told you to. And now you feel bad about poisoning a couple warg pups that would eat your mother alive if they had the chance?

    Morality my &&&&, you people are being hypocritical.

    Of course, this post was written within the scope of the game. Looking at it from a wider scope, it's just a damned game. Nothing is getting killed.
    I would actually agree with this... if it applied.
    Show me one quest in this game that shows us killing sentient children. Bandit children? Hillmen children? Why not?
    The closest you come is spider-lings, and those are attacking you. The most recent quest does NOT hit the same tone that was in the earlier game.
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  21. #21
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    It's not like Turbine hasn't had you picking up pig dung, for some time now. So, I'm not sure how killing puppies is much of a leap.
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  22. #22
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    SPOILER ALERT/BALEWOOD:













    Forget the warg pups! How do the Turbine lore folks justify us solo-killing an Ent in the Balewood?! After this quest I sat there & just said 'wth' to myself....unbelievable. I sure hope I missed something in the quest dialogue that justified it, but I am pretty sure I read it carefully. Huorns? OK, maybe. Wood-Trolls? Yea. But an ENT?
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  23. #23
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    Wasn't there a quest just outside the ring of Isengard just like that? After killing the warg matron I recall the NPC saying that the warg pups would grow up to become evil, but he said that killing them now would be cruel.

    Some hero we are ...

  24. #24
    I hate to say it, but this is nothing new - we already poisoned the Blackwolds' wolfdog-warg crossbreeds way back when in Chetwood.

    EDIT: Nyrion beat me to it.
    Last edited by Norliriel; May 21 2013 at 10:01 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    While it's not very heroic, it's much more humane to poison them than to slice them in half.
    /shakeshead

 

 
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