abc music system down from update 11?

[Phede]

First post on this thread, so lemme briefly say that I'm hopin Fionn'll change her mind; be a real shame t' lose a player o' her caliber.

That said, I want' highlight another issue with this music bug that I don't b'lieve anyone's mentioned here yet, which is that it seems all ABC dynamic markins are no longer bein read by th' system. I run a Band on Crickhollow Server, an aside from Bree, we've had success in playin concerts, as long as everyone logs in in th' area where they're goin t' play. That done, all th' instruments play, everyone can hear, an theres been no issues with switchin b'tween instruments from one song t' another.

BUT. Everythin we play now all plays at th' same volume level. I work up lots o' our ABC files m'self, an add dynamic changes so that th' melody, fer instance, is louder than th' chords underneath, or th' song fades out at th' end, or whatever. None o' those things happens any more. ALL TH' PARTS PLAY AT TH' SAME VOLUME, ALL TH' TIME. <-- Sort o' like that =P

I'm a bit surprised that no one else has noticed and/or mentioned this til now. But it seems unlikely that it's only our players that this happens to. An it's been noted in several diffrent places, on group an solo tunes, an seems t' be across th' board.

SO. One more thing fer th' Devs t' fix... But also mebbe a clue as t' where t' look t' fix it.

Just want to confirm this finding, which is a serious band arrangement killer. I don't know if the two bugs are interrelated, but this is new too. Dynamics worked before Update 11.

I made this little test ABC (apologies for ugly ABC formatting - quick and dirty cut and paste job!):

% Dynamics Test
X: 1
T: DynTest - Bagpipe
% M: 4/4
L: 1/4
Q: 1/4=120
K: C % 0 sharps
+ppp+
[D^fa]
z
+pp+
[D^fa]
z
+p+
[D^fa]
z
+mp+
[D^fa]
z
+mf+
[D^fa]
z
+f+
[D^fa]
z
+ff+
[D^fa]
z
+fff+
[D^fa]
z
+ff+
[D^fa]
z
+f+
[D^fa]
z
+mf+
[D^fa]
z
+mp+
[D^fa]
z
+p+
[D^fa]
z
+pp+
[D^fa]
z
+ppp+
[D^fa]
z

I wrote "Bagpipe" in the ABC but you can test it yourself using any wind instrument. As a matter of fact, you can test it using any instrument you like if you can find a place where the lute, harp, theorbo, drum and cowbells will make sound.

It should play a (relatively benign) D major chord 15 times, with a rest between each chord, starting softly (+ppp+), increasing gradually to loud (+fff+) and back to soft again.

But, now, in-game, this does indeed play same volume all the way through, ARGH!

Thanks for reporting this Bolderbrook, I feel slightly embarrassed that I hadn't noticed.

(To my excuse I have mostly tested by just running around the world strumming my lute by hand!).

[Nymtherial]

Before everyone goes and quits, I may have identified a problem with the system and a temporary solution but it needs work and I'm only one person so any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...12#post6797812

[Phede]

In just a week, this thread has had more views and comments than the thread with Achy's music, started more than a year ago.

You guys don't check/comment nearly as often as you should on Achy's work!

(Next one to aim for is the "Violin request" thread!).

[Lolorndinfey]

Before everyone goes and quits, I may have identified a problem with the system and a temporary solution but it needs work and I'm only one person so any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...12#post6797812

Solution? Maybe my understanding of the word's definition is different than yours. Workaround is the impression I got when I read your post. Appreciate the effort though. A lot of work. Archet is also a safe zone.

In just a week, this thread has had more views and comments than the thread with Achy's music, started more than a year ago.

You guys don't check/comment nearly as often as you should on Achy's work!

(Next one to aim for is the "Violin request" thread!).

Well, it's a lovely post topic of original music. But keeping our focus on this topic's discussion. Update 11. broken music system. Are you implying Achy is somehow responsible for this bug?

Just watched Contact again with Jodi Foster recently, and i'm reminded of the choirs in the desert singing praise to Vega somehow...

1 week anniversary in 3.5 hours...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_stages_of_grief

Denial

Anger

Bargaining

Depression

Acceptance


Where are you on this scale?

[Phede]

Where are you on this scale?

Grief is overrated. And playing (music in) LOTRO (or not) is hardly a matter of life and death.

But now you're asking; I hate everything and everybody, not least music, as usual (I strongly suspect it's a Teutonic racial trait.). I'm done testing until next patch. The dynamics gone missing kinda hit the nail on the head. I don't think the current state of the music system is worth wasting more resources on. Not fit for playing music as it is. Just my opinion. Maybe I would feel differently if I played in an all-captain band on Dwarrowdelf.

And I agree, this thread should be kept (more or less) on topic. Won't guarantee I can keep it humourless though!

PS: Of course it's all Achy's fault!

[Lolorndinfey]

Interesting revelation on character. Heh.

Was an open ended question to all. Not to anyone specifically. Just clarifying...

[Glenwin]

Can we please keep this on the technical facts? Poking each other does not help anyone and is a waste of time of everyone.

The hard facts regarding the technical issues is what helps Turbine to solve the problem, nothing else.

Thank you

[Nymtherial]

Can we please keep this on the technical facts? Poking each other does not help anyone and is a waste of time of everyone.

The hard facts regarding the technical issues is what helps Turbine to solve the problem, nothing else.

Thank you

Technical facts are in my workaround post. Feel free to poke away here and give facts there.

[Achy]

Are you implying Achy is somehow responsible for this bug?

PS: Of course it's all Achy's fault!

Ohh hmm What? haha. I surely hope not!
(thanks for nice comment though hehe, a light in the dark )

Personally I think is great to see that the music forum is very active now. It only prove for us that the music community isn't that small after all. So it must have been noticed.

Regards to workarounds is great to see the thread you make Nymtherial. It is a good report, which I think is needed to get some haste in the fix. The music system is way to unstable and bugged so is quite frankly difficult to live with it right now. The more facts the better.

[Shankles]

Lina: Aye, was grand doing some testing with you, Barkgrim and Raggo<something> ( :-) ) last night. Very odd behaviour of the system indeed.

- Grym.

That would be me, Grym. Raggolgrimbob "call me Bob" is my dwarven bard.

There are a lot of online games out there. Games are games, and they all come with some basic features, with your basic dimensions of a play environment with a chat engine and other bits added. LotRO as a game is very decent, but not top shelf -- as a game! But as a lore-rich role play environment it is utterly brilliant!

The LotRO music system is unique: it adds a whole other dimension -- a dimension other games lack. It allows you to share your art with others. It lends role play more depth, and adds a lot of enjoyment for everyone. It's a clear advantage over other games.

I find the game to be precious for this reason, this added dimension that allows for extra creativity and socialization. It saddens me see that Turbine doesn't value it as much as I do. Why they don't make much of this industry advantage over the other MMO's is a mystery to me.

...Like fancy red lutes for sale in the Turbine shop with flames painted on them! I'd spend real money on that!

[Lolorndinfey]

That would be me, Grym. Raggolgrimbob "call me Bob" is my dwarven bard.

...Like fancy red lutes for sale in the Turbine shop with flames painted on them! I'd spend real money on that!

Maybe you should start another topic on the commercialization of the music system?

Premium instruments are there. One shot purchases. Are you suggesting opening up reputation instruments with TP?

Then we're going to experience an overboard exploitation of the system. Tassles on flutes? Engravings on, metallic horns? Jewel encrusted clarinets? Then the gaudy factor comes in. Turning instruments into legendary items? The Tolkien estate would probably step in and put a stop to it. I mean what next? song slot caps on the number of songs you can play? There would probably be a huge uproar on that one!

There are improvements like an extra octave, fiddles and bugles I'd pay for with TP.

On the plus side, if this kind of capitalization did happen, maybe when the system is down like this; the worst bug to happen to the music system to date; maybe we'd get a faster turn around on bug fixes? All balances out. Ying and yang...

[Laurefinde]

Maybe you should start another topic on the commercialization of the music system? Are you suggesting opening up reputation instruments with TP?

No, I think this was tongue-in-cheek cosmetic talk for humor value.

[Shankles]

No, I think this was tongue-in-cheek cosmetic talk for humor value.

Well yes... And...

I'm also saying that Turbine has to make money, right? Of course!
Why haven't they spruced up the music system, and added the giant marketing hook of being in a band !

Lord knows Garage Hero ( etc.) have raked in the dough -- and inspired a whole generation to put aside their plastic guitars and drums for the real deal to boot... Turning a music store into a shopping mall standby, where before they weren't. Why not cash in?

And if Turbine cared about their music system as a money-maker, then they might also care enough to toss us a few crumbs and fix the blinking thing!!!

Can you sense the farcical desperation?

[Lolorndinfey]

Ever heard of a hunger strike?

I'm just going to forgo participation in the spring festival and gameplay and play kumbaya by the fireplace in the Pony until the fix is in....on bagpipes.

Yes. It was in jest. Maybe with a few grains of truth to it... problem with the forum is you can't hear the cheeky factor when read instead of spoken... (maybe the cheeky emote is the same code as lute/harp?)

[Trusilver]

To suggest that the Lonely Mountain Band, or any of its members, get any kind of special treatment is absurd. Anyone who remembers the situation last Weatherstock where some oatmeal-brained GM allowed a troll to continue doing what he was doing, but instead gave one of the performers a warning for 'spamming' lyrics knows this is the case. I actually think that people who go to such an extent to create player events SHOULD be given a little bit of a pedestal.

My girlfriend and I, along with one of our officers, used to spend hours playing music on the wall right inside the west gate of Bree... we haven't done this at all since this bug popped up because the odds of at least one of us having the issue is pretty near 100%, and I'm honestly just not interested in a "workaround". What a workaround does is gives Turbine a free pass to not fix things.

What I have done is cancelled my VIP, and I urge others to do the same. Music is one of the few things that keep my coming back to this game, and if Turbine can't be troubled to make it a priority, I can't be troubled to pay them any more money. I will happily renew my VIP when they get their &&&& together.

[Lolorndinfey]

end of Day 10; still no official announcement or acknowledgement here?

This might be another clue to the nature or source of this bug. I test songs in game as one of the final steps when creating songs. I run Lotro MIDI Player and LotrO in window modes, and when you toggle the "Game sound; Always play game sound in background" to off, the in game music is silenced...prior to update 11. Now, when playing wind instruments in game, even with this toggle off, you can still hear the game song playing. Something seriously different with the behaviour prior to the update.

[Aestivan]

A song of the Laiquendi, rendered into Sindarin, of necessity performed without accompaniment:

I'annel Dínen

Linnem ennas i gelon annan
In Ennin sui less alediel
Gennil mín celevyn suilir elin
Gennil mín mellyn linnir na aew

Nae an endrainn i siriar haeron
In Ennin sui less alediel
Si elin tiriar dad na vín dínin
Si aewelir pain reviar pelain

Ma le harna, gannel nín celevon?
In Ennin sui less alediel
Anirach aen Annûn haewain
Linnad úbor nef na gelon?

A! i'hyl ring tan tolir o Thruven
In Ennin sui less alediel
Le glingithan aen na datharolf
Ar channathan aen an falas?


The Silent Harp

Long beside the river we sang
Years like leaves without number
Our silver harps greeted the stars
Our golden harps sang with the birds

Alas for the ages that slip away
Years like leaves without number
Now the stars look silently down
Now the songbirds are all flown

What ails you, my silver harp?
Years like leaves without number
Do you long for the utmost West
No more beside the river to sing?

O, cold the winds that blow from the East
Years like leaves without number!
Shall I hang you from a willow-branch
And go to seek the shore?



TL;DR, We miss our harps, Turbine! Please fix them!

[LedLady]

Apparently it's not only down in Bree.

[Aestivan]

Apparently it's not only down in Bree.

Nope. It is broken in many places. I'd go as far as to say "most".

[sharilaa]

No news from Turbine about music ?
Music system is one of specificity Lotro. There is no mmo with this system. So it will be nice that Turbine say something to the community about this bug. Lot of music festivals will be or were cancelled and gigs, rp events too.
We have a screen bug with weapons on hands, now we have music bug and we see no patch, hear no news or information about that bugs...
We don't care to have new icons or hobbit gift. We just want to play without bugs and feel that turbine teams work on bugs.
Turbine, talk to us please.

[Lolorndinfey]

No news from Turbine about music ?

In all honesty, that's not how Turbine's worked in the past. Dev notes will described what's coming up in the next immediate update or hotfix, then a date is announced on when the server will be brought down to implement the fix.

Three weeks. This is how long since update 11 has been implemented. The bug basically removes the possibility of stable ensemble music in heavy RP zones, namely Bree or Weathertop, and only allows wind instruments like flute/clarinet/horn to play music without volume control for solo artists.

There's been twitter acknowledgement of the bug, but on forum there's been a total absence of news except as reported by players.

Will Turbine announce something on forums? Unlikely

Is a fix in the works? probably.

Was this the right PR way to handle the worst music bug to hit LotrO? probably not

At this point time-wise, this is probably the tipping point for most music playing/rp players of LotrO. You have to ask yourself seriously;
If a bug of this magnitude is not acknowledged nor fixed in three weeks, how will Turbine handle bugs of equal or lesser magnitude in the future?

Die hard fans will stay no matter what, but on the account side of Turbine, I think in the next few weeks they'll probably sit the dev team down on a fix estimate, as sales figures start to take a dip.

I know on the spring festival activities, it's been unusually quiet, as if people are just not doing them anymore...earlier than the tapering off of activity compared to last year. On the RP side of things, the lack of minstrel activity in Bree is really unusual, as if the LotRO population have all taken early summer holidays...

I hope this is paranoia on my part, but this bug has bigger ramifications than just as being classified as a low priority bug...

[Laurefinde]

Most music players and roleplayers are fairly patient. We will wait awhile to see if a fix is in the works with the next update and if not we will be patient and wait for the next update after that. Eventually we will tire of it and trickle away from the game.

My music group meets weekly to test songs and play concerts. We can still do that in Lord Elrond's homely house. Unfortunately everywhere else seems to be broken.

[Phede]

My music group meets weekly to test songs and play concerts. We can still do that in Lord Elrond's homely house. Unfortunately everywhere else seems to be broken.

Hehe, we can only do that because you people are very tolerant towards bagpipes at ear splitting levels Mak ... the dynamics bug has brought new splendor to ye olde haggis sack!

[Lestache]

At this point time-wise, this is probably the tipping point for most music playing/rp players of LotrO. You have to ask yourself seriously;
If a bug of this magnitude is not acknowledged nor fixed in three weeks, how will Turbine handle bugs of equal or lesser magnitude in the future?

Perhaps this is the first game-breaking bug that has personally affected you, but it's far from the first (and certainly won't be the last) game-breaking bug to affect a small portion of players; bugs that have affected larger numbers of players have gone unacknowledged for years before (the fact that none of the RK's original 4-class-trait bonuses worked for two years being one).

You may have missed it earlier in the thread, but you already have tacit confirmation from a trusted source that Turbine is definitely aware of the bug and working on it, although a definite fixed-by date has not been determined. This particular bug is already well ahead of nearly every other game-breaking bug that has affected players over the last six years as far as acknowledgment goes.

As to your final question, Turbine will continue to handle game-breaking bugs the way they always have; by rarely posting them in the known issues list, not commenting on them at all, and encouraging people in-game to submit "/bug reports" while simultaneously telling them that, "it's not a known issue and we can't help you" (rogue helpful GMs aside - not that GMs can help with this particular bug, unfortunately).

[Phede]

This particular bug is already well ahead of nearly every other game-breaking bug ...

Born to run(e)!