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  1. #26
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    Shaguk is in the south part of Wildermore, between the paths to Entwash Vale and the Norcrofts. I'm not entirely sure about Conog, but I think he might be off in the western part of Wildermore somewhere.

    And, yeah, Shaguk is the real deal. I passed slightly too close to him on my way to a quest and got over 50% health shaved off in a few seconds. I'm looking forward to dragging some kinfolk along and taking that guy down.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  2. #27
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    Had another look at my build, and realize that it would be possible to take the blue line capstone at the expense of ICPR.

    Given that you need Rohirrim when you need to save your bacon, figure the better safetynet is worth the minor loss of ICPR.

    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Shaguk is in the south part of Wildermore, between the paths to Entwash Vale and the Norcrofts. I'm not entirely sure about Conog, but I think he might be off in the western part of Wildermore somewhere.

    And, yeah, Shaguk is the real deal. I passed slightly too close to him on my way to a quest and got over 50% health shaved off in a few seconds. I'm looking forward to dragging some kinfolk along and taking that guy down.
    If the other warband is the one I think it is, it's not that difficult - but Shaguk, yeah, he's a fun one =)

    And if the Warband difficulty got upped so a group is required for them now, that's not that bad an issue, since the build I mentioned would behave like a DPS RK for a fellow.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 16 2013 at 12:37 AM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  3. #28
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    Ack, double post I know bu touching once more on the crafted relics:

    By observation, the cries for a captain light steed are the hardest hitting set of skills for the class, so the question of whether or not the Brilde Emblem of the Rider (-AD relic) is better than Bridle Emblem of Agility comes down to whether or not the -AD affects the cries - which are Cry of Vengeance, Cry Wrath, Cry Havoc, and Rally the Riders.

    So a very simple test for this is getting the relic, slotting it, and noting what the cooldowns for the four skills are.

    Using the build I posted above, the cooldowns (in seconds) are:
    Cry Vengeance: 10.0
    Cry Wrath: 10.0
    Cry Havoc: 4.0
    Rally the Riders: 6.0

    The cooldowns are also the same across all three stances.

    And the cooldowns with the -AD relic are the exact same. Unlike dismounted, where our autoattacks will do a fair amount of damage, they do significantly less while on a warsteed - especially if you are hauling at 16 (full gallop with dash turned on) on a light steed because of furor's contribution to the masteries and the damage our cries output.

    For a light steed, I do not recommend the Bridle Emblem of the Rider.

    For more info on the relics, check out http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Relics

    PS:
    In case you were wondering, Oppressive Blow's cooldown is 4.0s. Insignia of Free Speech gives Oppressive Blow a 25% chance to reset the cries.... given how short the cry cooldowns are, you would get an average of 2.5 Oppressive blows in before the cooldowns came off. Again, I'd rather go for the DPS, since the build is extremely DPS focused.

    I would do a disservice to the more support oriented light steed peeps out there by not mentioning the Insignia of Resurgence, which gives +25% Rally the Riders healing.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  4. #29
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    Here we go again Alm:
    -25% AD does not mean you will have cooldowns 25% smaller. It means your skill animations are 25% faster. The on defeat response from Riddermark Discipline adds another -20% on top of that. It adds up to quick skill rotations and smaller times inside melee range while applying Opressive blow and Rally the Riders. Since RtR is a slow as molasses skill the Insignia helps a lot, especially when inside cramped areas.

    Discipline rotation has become second nature for me: RtR in Rohirrim, Cry Wrath in Riddermark, Cry Vengeance in Red Dawn. Thank god wife come back and i have my Razer Naga Epic again.

    Conog is a bit easier since the adds are regular mobhs, but after 3 trys yesterday i still didn't managed to dismount it. And without dismount sooner or later a critical hit kills my Warhorse. He only does common damage, so at least i can face it in glass cannon mode and capped phys mit.

    Shaguk is another matter altogether, 5 mounted Elite master and a mounted Nemesis. Any person who solo this without dying will be considered a Middle Earth hero.

    Back to our flame war- my idea of giving armour is not very useful compared with giving raw morale. I tested a trait build with 7 points in armour and damage reduction went from 0.8% to 8.x %. So i'm removing armour and putting raw morale and evasion rate in the briddle.

    As far as DoT go, i still consider the +10% Dot damage legacy useless: most DoTs are 100-200 damage every 3s for 12s. 10% of something this small would end up in about 4DPS more, fight a 670k morale boss.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Had another look at my build, and realize that it would be possible to take the blue line capstone at the expense of ICPR.
    I always fight with Dash toggled on (and I tend to spam all my offensive skills - a high crit rate makes up for the reduced fury bonus, also aids in healing) and even after cutting strength I haven't had any problems with power. Rohirrim stance is chock full of group/self heals and the Riddermark tier bridle gems (Haste: +154.5 ICPR; Acumen: -15% War-steed Power Cost (my choice, as it includes the +25% crit multiplier)) and power legacies really help mitigate the need to switch out of Red Dawn to top off.

    Like you, I place a high priority on agility for a tight turn radius (and I'm actually getting to use Break Free now.. yay!) but acceleration is also key for DPS, especially with the quick fury gain of a light steed. I'm also a big fan of the Savvy bridle settings, though it takes the finesse of a samurai to capitalize on the advantage. Unfortunately a few of the new warbands are fast and manipulating the range isn't as easy as it was in the eastern plain. Using the terrain to gain an edge (e.g., see: Military Crest) shouldn't be overlooked either. A couple of them WILL lead you into hazards if they can. All the skills in Arda won't help much if you don't know how to ride. Again, agility and acceleration are both crucial to a sleek performance. Personally I've been practicing by racing through cities on lousy hardware since the first round of beta, and they can't nerf MY skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    -25% AD does not mean you will have cooldowns 25% smaller. It means your skill animations are 25% faster. The on defeat response from Riddermark Discipline adds another -20% on top of that. It adds up to quick skill rotations and smaller times inside melee range while applying Opressive blow and Rally the Riders.
    I'm with ya here. I can typically fire off both bleed attacks while charging past at full gallop, then swing around for two or three cries in time for the next melee cycle (I LOVE the new AoE defeat response.. I may even have to add that legacy to my sword.) I don't need a ton of endurance because I don't stick around long. As Miyagi-sama once said... the best block is no be there.

    I haven't had much time to play with Command yet but I've already got some ideas to incorporate it into my strategy. Voz has a nasty habit of scooping up extra archers, and the lack of a shield doesn't bother me so much when I can force them to melee and bleed them out. I think it would also help to keep him away from that ridge in the first place. It's about choosing the ground and controlling the flow of the fight, like a good Captain should. Banners, LI's, stats, personal traits and gear, field tactics, it's all a complex puzzle with many solutions. Nobody is going to have a 'leet' MC build when focusing on warsteed skills alone.

    I'm really pleased to see a variety of viable strategies coming to the surface though. I think there's a lot more room for self-expression, we're not all pumped out of some mold in Isengard. Remember folks, it's not great tanks or great healers that win battles... it's great leaders. IMNSHO our greatest strength as Captains is our ability to make diverse elements act in harmony, to identify and bolster the gaps in the line... both in war and in ourselves. It's not about being THE best, it's about being YOUR best. The answer isn't going to be found on some wiki, it's written in our hearts. If this patch feels like a nerf, perhaps the problem isn't with the new "troops."

    PS - Just for fun and to lighten the mood (this is Character Creation and Development, after all) I'm including one of my few forays into the world of the minstrel. Feel free to use/adapt/ignore the file as you wish. Working out aesthetic timing on this one was a beast. For those not service members or familiar with the name, you may recognize it as the call played at the start of a horse race. I wish I had a proper bugle, though the Lorien horn makes a fair substitute. I've been working on some others but until I can play while riding and the fights get meatier there's not much use for a "Platoons Right Wheel"

    Code:
    X: 1
    T: Assembly of Buglers (First Call)
    N: Warning to assemble for formation.
    C: Traditional
    S: http://www.brianberlin.net/bugle_calls/
    Z: Oraekja of Landroval
    M: 3/8
    Q: 3/8=166
    L: 1/16
    K: Bb
    
    G/c/e/3 | .g2g/g/g/3.g2 | .e2e/e/e/3.e2 | .c2.e2.c2 |
    
    G2 z2 G/c/e/3 | .g2g/g/g/3.g2 | .g2.e2.c2 | .G2G/G/G/3.G2 | c2 z2 |]

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    -25% AD does not mean you will have cooldowns 25% smaller. It means your skill animations are 25% faster.
    I was aware of the increased autoattack rate, but not of the skill animations - which is very nice.

    Admittedly, most of that ignorance comes from not really focusing on that aspect of the combat system XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Conog is a bit easier since the adds are regular mobhs, but after 3 trys yesterday i still didn't managed to dismount it. And without dismount sooner or later a critical hit kills my Warhorse. He only does common damage, so at least i can face it in glass cannon mode and capped phys mit.
    If this is the raid boss I'm thinking of, he's basically Bugud 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Shaguk is another matter altogether, 5 mounted Elite master and a mounted Nemesis. Any person who solo this without dying will be considered a Middle Earth hero.
    On BR, I was stance dancing **A LOT** to survive that one. Having a bridle that has all the scrolls and Star-lits also helped out quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    As far as DoT go, i still consider the +10% Dot damage legacy useless: most DoTs are 100-200 damage every 3s for 12s. 10% of something this small would end up in about 4DPS more, fight a 670k morale boss.
    Maybe it's time I did some parsing on Bugud. I would hope he'd be largely left alone now, and he makes for an excellent scratching post =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oraekja View Post
    Unfortunately a few of the new warbands are fast and manipulating the range isn't as easy as it was in the eastern plain. Using the terrain to gain an edge (e.g., see: Military Crest) shouldn't be overlooked either. A couple of them WILL lead you into hazards if they can. All the skills in Arda won't help much if you don't know how to ride. Again, agility and acceleration are both crucial to a sleek performance. Personally I've been practicing by racing through cities on lousy hardware since the first round of beta, and they can't nerf MY skill.
    I'll have to remember that =)
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 16 2013 at 12:55 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Had another look at my build, and realize that it would be possible to take the blue line capstone at the expense of ICPR.
    I've actually been experimenting with 5Y/2R while mounted. Mainly just for the LoM capstone that enables two-handed blocking. (Reasoning here: I have +45% crit rating on horseback as it is, using the Heavy steed's crit toggle. For a warband-soloing build, getting to block is probably better than boosting my melee crit from 45% to 50%.)

    I've also experimented with fighting in melee range. For one thing, to be quite honest, it's a lot more fun. It plays out like mounted combat should play, where maneuvering and positioning is really important. But anyway, mini-rant over.

    It turns out that our mounted autoattacks, in melee range, do a surprising amount of damage. Auto-attack damage is the second-highest source of damage in the parses I've made: using the Writhendowns Bow-Masters as targets, because it takes more than a gentle breeze to knock them down.

    What do we do with that info? Well, for trash mobs, nothing. They die in one or two shouts anyway, so who cares? But for boss mobs or even signature/elites with a lot of HP who don't go down in two shouts, we're giving up a lot of DPS by not getting into melee range, both from skills and autoattacks. Food for thought. That's why I'm trying to build so I can survive fighting in melee range, rather than just kiting.

    (FYI, our melee and ranged autoattacks parse out separately. The damage from ranged AAs is totally negligible.)
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post

    Shaguk is another matter altogether, 5 mounted Elite master and a mounted Nemesis. Any person who solo this without dying will be considered a Middle Earth hero.

    .
    I've soloed him on my mounted warden without dying. Do you now consider me a hero?

    I wouldn't try it on my Captain though. Which brings me to my second point. Captains are powerful mounted, but not over-powered. The nerf - though not a big deal - really wasn't justified in my opinion. Yeah they have good damage, but when you put that in the perspective with their survival, which isn't awful but no where near as good as some other classes out there (such as the Warden as I mentioned) I thought it was fine.

    Also I agree with your earlier comments. 2k Endurance is way too low, and I wouldn't even trust myself fighting the warbands in Entwash with that amount of endurance, to say nothing of Shaguk.

  9. #34
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    And another way to build the light steed - an all around build that focuses on healing over DPS, while maintaining a high dismount chance while still being fairly survivable. Like the other one I posted, this also requires you to stance dance to get the most out of the warsteed, but does give you more healing at the expense of DPS.

    Light Steed Trait Priorities
    1) Agility
    2) With the exception of:
    Bond of Power (Blue tree - minimal investment)
    Bond of Morale (Blue tree - minimal investment)
    Invigoration (Yellow tree - no investment)
    Max all of the colored traits

    Class traits
    4 Red (for the +5% melee crit chance - everything else is irrelevant).

    Gear
    Tactical mastery and crit focused, as much of both as you can get.
    Sword and Board - Gives you block and additional tactical mastery. Amusingly the sword could be a LI with nothing but stat legacies on it and probably do better than a "normal" LI with a crit scroll from Wildermoore and the usual complement of relics.
    War Banner for the ranged slot - best banner for mounted combat XD

    **BE SURE TO GIVE YOURSELF CRIT BUFF AND MOTIVATION**

    Bridle Legacies
    +Class Skill Dismount Chance (Light Steed)
    +'Disengaging Strikes' Dismount Chance (Light Steed)
    +'Motivation Through Aggression' Heal Chance (Light Steed)
    +Red Dawn Damage
    +Rohirrim Skill Healing
    +Riddermark Skill Direct Damage
    +War-steed Agility [Note: Drop if not using a Crystal of Remembrance]

    Bridle Relics
    Eastemnet Setting of Savvy
    Eastemnet Gem of Acumen
    Insignia of Resurgence (in rune slot)
    Emblem of the Rider

    Resources
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Relics
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Bridle_Legacies
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  10. #35
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    I wish they had MC training dummies somewhere. Does the new 5% dmg buff stack with the original 15% R & S or do they combine for total 20% outgoing dmg? I'll run Medium WS in Red Dawn, get my fury up, hit Cry Havoc, Put up the new dmg buff, hit Rider and Steed then Arise, pop off a Cry Wrath then Rally, and last the new AoE defeat event (5 target with more dmg than Wrath) and I hit like a sack full of batteries. If anything I think they upped our Dmg. Add in Crits and mobs just evaporate, or is this just me?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwulf View Post
    I wish they had MC training dummies somewhere. Does the new 5% dmg buff stack with the original 15% R & S or do they combine for total 20% outgoing dmg? I'll run Medium WS in Red Dawn, get my fury up, hit Cry Havoc, Put up the new dmg buff, hit Rider and Steed then Arise, pop off a Cry Wrath then Rally, and last the new AoE defeat event (5 target with more dmg than Wrath) and I hit like a sack full of batteries. If anything I think they upped our Dmg. Add in Crits and mobs just evaporate, or is this just me?
    You run in medium so that's probably why you don't notice it. It's captains like me who run with a light steed who are more likely to notice the nerfs I think, and my damage has decreased since the update. It's not a huge nerf, and nothing I can't live with - but I do notice it. But when you take into account they gave Captain Light Steeds the ability to dismount, I think it evens out in the end. But I am weaker offensively than I was before.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwulf View Post
    I wish they had MC training dummies somewhere. Does the new 5% dmg buff stack with the original 15% R & S or do they combine for total 20% outgoing dmg? I'll run Medium WS in Red Dawn, get my fury up, hit Cry Havoc, Put up the new dmg buff, hit Rider and Steed then Arise, pop off a Cry Wrath then Rally, and last the new AoE defeat event (5 target with more dmg than Wrath) and I hit like a sack full of batteries. If anything I think they upped our Dmg. Add in Crits and mobs just evaporate, or is this just me?
    I usually run on a Medium in Riddermark for the AoE shout. Now, I've got even more offense. I'm not loaded with premium gear and I've been seeing Dev crits just under 10,000 on greys outside of Harwick. That's a lot of damage from an AoE.
    [CENTER][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]<< Co-founder of [I][U][SIZE="4"]The Firebrands of Caruja[/SIZE][/U][/I] on Landroval >>
    Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir[/COLOR]
    [/CENTER]

  13. #38
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    First for the 2h vs 1h debate- my tooltips inform me that using a warg-pens shield with Might does more damage than using a 2h, even if the 2h has 20+ DPS above the 1h.

    Second, i think the nerf on Medium steed was actually worse than on Light Steed- we lost our 10s Dash, and Dash no longer fills up our rage meter(at least that was why i gave up on Medium), so while our maximum potential damage output is more or less balanced out , the speed, turning rate and sheer fury of a medium steed is gone.

    Back to Conog and Shaguk- both can be dismounted so its a lottery. For Conog a viable solo strategy is similar to Voz: use command to send it away from u, they try to dismout it with crys. switch to rohirrim when it comes back and use rally the riders- melee to send it awat again, rinse and repeat. expecty to be dismounted many time before you finally dismount it. Shaguk does not dismount you, but has harder adds and hits a bit harder than Conog so you die in a more conventional way- sheer damage taken instead of the coward dismount+mezz attacks that Conog uses. By far Conog is the more frustrating one Shaguk if you slow it is bearable.

    The fact that the only way to possible solo these bosses involves dismounting pretty much closes the argument
    Last edited by Nascephor; May 18 2013 at 01:04 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    First for the 2h vs 1h debate- my tooltips inform me that using a warg-pens shield with Might does more damage than using a 2h, even if the 2h has 20+ DPS above the 1h.
    It's actually a little more to it on the warsteed.

    It's using the damage range on the weapon, and since we don't get a second (thus the 2H v DW discussion), it boils down to how much outgoing damage we're doing both ways, and whichever has the higher damage range. Assuming you are using a GOOD build, the shield will give you a couple of percent increase - while also giving you quite a bit more tactical mastery.

    So there's actually two things at work here: the multiplier from the tool tip and the damage range from the LI. That's why I'm recommending a 2H for a DPS centric warsteed build, while S&B for a more support/healer oriented one.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    It's actually a little more to it on the warsteed.

    It's using the damage range on the weapon, and since we don't get a second (thus the 2H v DW discussion), it boils down to how much outgoing damage we're doing both ways, and whichever has the higher damage range. Assuming you are using a GOOD build, the shield will give you a couple of percent increase - while also giving you quite a bit more tactical mastery.

    So there's actually two things at work here: the multiplier from the tool tip and the damage range from the LI. That's why I'm recommending a 2H for a DPS centric warsteed build, while S&B for a more support/healer oriented one.
    I might be reading this wrong, but it seems you are saying in the first paragraph that S & B will give you an increase in dmg output over 2H. Then in the second you recommend 2H for a DPS build, please clarify and thanks!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    First for the 2h vs 1h debate- my tooltips inform me that using a warg-pens shield with Might does more damage than using a 2h, even if the 2h has 20+ DPS above the 1h.

    Second, i think the nerf on Medium steed was actually worse than on Light Steed- we lost our 10s Dash, and Dash no longer fills up our rage meter(at least that was why i gave up on Medium), so while our maximum potential damage output is more or less balanced out , the speed, turning rate and sheer fury of a medium steed is gone.

    Back to Conog and Shaguk- both can be dismounted so its a lottery. For Conog a viable solo strategy is similar to Voz: use command to send it away from u, they try to dismout it with crys. switch to rohirrim when it comes back and use rally the riders- melee to send it awat again, rinse and repeat. expecty to be dismounted many time before you finally dismount it. Shaguk does not dismount you, but has harder adds and hits a bit harder than Conog so you die in a more conventional way- sheer damage taken instead of the coward dismount+mezz attacks that Conog uses. By far Conog is the more frustrating one Shaguk if you slow it is bearable.

    The fact that the only way to possible solo these bosses involves dismounting pretty much closes the argument
    Dash still fills my fury meter faster when I hit, I just can't use it as often. Gonna double check it to make sure, but I really think it still does. Might be wrong though.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steppenwulf View Post
    I might be reading this wrong, but it seems you are saying in the first paragraph that S & B will give you an increase in dmg output over 2H. Then in the second you recommend 2H for a DPS build, please clarify and thanks!
    Almagnus and me are engaged in this heated debate for a week now. I am resorting to trolling:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?488195-Revisiting-Shields-For-Mounted-Combat!

    Nov 11 2012 09:46 PM #12
    Almagnus1
    Sounds like LIs with all five stat legacies is the best way to go for mounted.... that and a shield would be optimal.

    So
    i really don't understand how almagnus suddenly decided to state here that 2h are best for damage output in mounted combat after that in depth discussion in U9-U10.

    If anything, the much harder warbands in Wildermore make the use of a shield even more recommended. Considering that we gained ANOTHER cry that uses tactical mastery, going with a shield is a win-win situation:
    20+% block/higher tactical mastery/higher vitality.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Almagnus and me are engaged in this heated debate for a week now. I am resorting to trolling:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?488195-Revisiting-Shields-For-Mounted-Combat!

    Nov 11 2012 09:46 PM #12
    Almagnus1
    Sounds like LIs with all five stat legacies is the best way to go for mounted.... that and a shield would be optimal.

    So
    i really don't understand how almagnus suddenly decided to state here that 2h are best for damage output in mounted combat after that in depth discussion in U9-U10.

    If anything, the much harder warbands in Wildermore make the use of a shield even more recommended. Considering that we gained ANOTHER cry that uses tactical mastery, going with a shield is a win-win situation:
    20+% block/higher tactical mastery/higher vitality.
    For starters, weapon and emblem LIs are largely irrelevant with mounted combat, thus the reference to one loaded with stat legacies. If virtually all of the legacies do nothing while mounted, why not use the only ones (which are the stat legacies) that do?

    That said, if the warsteed is a pure tactical DPS warsteed, then the tactical mastery rating is the ONLY thing that matters for DPS (assuming I understand tactical DPS correctly that is). This means we need a lot of might.

    For Physical DPS, the Physical Mastery rating acts as a multiplier for the main hand damage range (again, assuming I understand physical DPS correctly). Unlike champs, burgs, and hunters - we don't dual wield, so that means that the only option for a high physical damage is a 2H LI, since the 1H's damage range is going to be lower (around 60-70%). Unlike dismounted combat - where our DPS is pathetic compared to everyone else - in mounted combat, we're rubbing shoulders with the top tier DPSers, so that means our DPS loss is **actually** non-trivial, so for high physical based damage, we need the 2H LI.

    If my position changed from November 2012, it's cause I have had **A LOT** of experience with the mounted combat system, and have learned from what I was doing. I've seen how a tight circle kite can put me within melee auto-attack range for part (if not all) of the revolution around the target. I've also learned that the physical DPS component of the light steed shouldn't be as ignored as I once thought it should.

    So, to sum it up - for the light steed, since you can be in situations where you will be doing a pretty good amount of physical DPS, you need a metric buttload of might with a 2H to have the highest DPS output of both.

    Also, if I am mistaken about how the DPS mechanics work, please correct me.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 19 2013 at 01:16 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    If my position changed from November 2012, it's cause I have had **A LOT** of experience with the mounted combat system, and have learned from what I was doing. I've seen how a tight circle kite can put me within melee auto-attack range for part (if not all) of the revolution around the target. I've also learned that the physical DPS component of the light steed shouldn't be as ignored as I once thought it should.

    So, to sum it up - for the light steed, since you can be in situations where you will be doing a pretty good amount of physical DPS, you need a metric buttload of might with a 2H to have the highest DPS output of both.

    Also, if I am mistaken about how the DPS mechanics work, please correct me.
    This is matching my experience, too, with the main difference being that I use a Heavy steed instead -- so I'm getting even more damage, relatively, out of the melee attacks than the cries.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  20. #45
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    While the melee damage shouldn't be completely ignored, it tends to be better to focus on the tactical attacks, as we have more of them, can use them more frequently, and they tend to hit harder than the melee ones (with the exception of the short-range tactical attack). For that reason I go with a shield, as I've noticed the rise in my tactical attacks more than makes up for the smaller loss in my melee attack damage.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, lower attack duration due to using a 1H is also awesome.
    Last edited by TinDragon; May 19 2013 at 03:53 PM.

  21. #46
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    Parses, drilled down to show damage-by-skill, would be supremely helpful to y'all's discussion. I might have something saved from soloing Bugud in 2012, but I A.) don't exactly remember my tactics on taking him down (I light-horse kited him and hit him often with melee attacks when cries were on CD, but I don't recall how often I AA'd him; I was full on galloping), and I B.) am out of town and far away from that parse, and I C.) am but a single Captain not representative of the community.

    But generally speaking, your tactical portion of your total damage output would have to far outweigh the melee portion of total damage output to justify lowering your net melee damage significantly while gaining a small boost in tact damage (by choosing S&B).

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Parses, drilled down to show damage-by-skill, would be supremely helpful to y'all's discussion. I might have something saved from soloing Bugud in 2012, but I A.) don't exactly remember my tactics on taking him down (I light-horse kited him and hit him often with melee attacks when cries were on CD, but I don't recall how often I AA'd him; I was full on galloping), and I B.) am out of town and far away from that parse, and I C.) am but a single Captain not representative of the community.
    So going off of http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...chanics-in-SoM (which was pointed as still relevant in the RK forums), the biggest question in my mind is if there is anything that affects our Light Steed Tactical DPS other than the usual suspects:

    Tactical Mastery rating and Crit rating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    But generally speaking, your tactical portion of your total damage output would have to far outweigh the melee portion of total damage output to justify lowering your net melee damage significantly while gaining a small boost in tact damage (by choosing S&B).
    First a link: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Measured_Attack

    Since Measured Attack (in Red Dawn) provides a tactical mitigation debuff to the target, you will want to keep that up all the time, since that's also a melee skill DoT, to me at least, that provides more than enough incentive to go with a 2H over S&B - assuming your intent is to be a DPSer with the light steed, that is.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 19 2013 at 06:06 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  23. #48
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    This is not fair- i try to troll a bit and you guys continue to make construtive posts.

    Looking back at my numbers when i first farmed Bugud its night and day:
    Now pocket, earrings, bracelets, cloak and necklace have 122-150 might, before the most i used was 119(?) Might from crafted gear. I'm running on average 1 stat slice of Might more on each of theses slots. That is about 2.2k Masteries more on gear alone Our old weapons received bumps in DPS as well, and most of us are running with First Ages now. On the last days before the nerf my medium steed was one-shotting the 25k morale Signatures south of Snowbourn, in riddermark discipline. So yes, i agree that damage output went up a lot these last months. But damage went up much more in the tactical front than on the physical front- our tactical mastery went up ~2250 over a 25k figure, about 9% more, while our melee DPS went up 10 points over a 155 figure, about 6% more.

    So we still face the same problem while mounted- insane cry damage, feeble weapon damage. And the issue only gets worse now that we have Warbands that gave a real challenge, requiring us to use a light steed to dismount the mobs or die.

    Tight kite circle around the mobs? As in, facerolling a dismounted mob?? I would never waste gaming time posting here for facerolls builds.
    -I don't care if my bleeds are doing 110 each pulse instead of 100. This kind of damage won't save me from Conog or Shaguk. I even doubt that i can slash any time farming recipes using something like that for "faster" kills.
    -I don't care if i can crit 10% more every 10s in Cry wrath while riding Red Dawn and "tight circle kiting" a lone dismounted mob- when a lone mob is dismounted i have already won, no concerns, no fears.
    -I care, a lot, about dismounting foes. That is why i use Free speech insignia. I have usually 1 hit every skill rotation that 25% gives me 2 crys resets, both of which crit about 35-40% of the time. On these crits another 25% dismounts the foe. I don't need Bayes to guess that on average i will output more damage and have more dismounts than if only one of my skills critted 5% more on each skill rotation.
    -I care, a lot, about insane AoE damage for faster farming and quick trimming the larger Warbands. Again, i am yet to find a better skill rotation than: Riddermark, Cry wrath, Cry Havoc, Opressive Blow,(cry wrath, cry havoc), Rally the Riders, (Red dawn, Cry Vengeance). The () mark skills that i use when available, which in most farming spots is 100% of the time, since something is bound to die after that onslaught

  24. #49
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    Another double post... YAY. =/

    Going back to the Insignia of Free-speec, going off of what Furtim said http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...09#post6777909 and using http://www.wolframalpha.com/ to solve the equation:

    Pn = (Pproc)*n - (Pproc)^n

    For n Where

    Pn = .95
    Pproc = .25

    Giving the equation:

    .95 = .25 * n - .25 ^ n

    and the solution is:

    n = 3.82005

    Given that the cooldowns for the relevant skils are:
    Cry Vengeance: 10.0
    Cry Wrath: 10.0
    Cry Havoc: 4.0
    Rally the Riders: 6.0
    Opressive Blow: 4.0

    You are looking at 2.5 times per cooldown cycle for the longest skill.

    Since 2.5 < 3.825, it means that you will (more than likely) not proc Insignia of Free Speech often enough to make it worthwhile.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  25. #50
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    Well, it bears pointing out that the "right" answer in the Tactical vs. Physical debate is highly circumstantial. For most landscape mobs, they'll die in two shouts even if you don't push your Tactical Mastery at all, so it's a moot point. It's only in extended fights that this matters at all.

    Currently, there are two types of mobs where I'd consider any build choices to even be remotely relevant: Signature/Elites like the Writhendowns Bow-Masters and the fellowship/raid warbands.

    I'll try to hop in and get some damage parses on both mob types. Probably will measure some solo Bow-Masters and then measure again on Voz, since he's soloable but takes a while to go down.

    AoE is something of a confounding factor here, of course. Cry Wrath can potentially hit five targets, and Combat Analysis will sum up all that damage in its final parse. So, actually, in multi-target situations, I'd say there's not even a question and that pushing your Tactical Mastery up is a no-brainer. But I'd still be curious to know whether TactMast from a shield or weapon DPS from a 2H LI is superior for single-target mounted DPS.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

 

 
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