We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 260
  1. #1

    Constructive Criticisim - State of the Moors

    After reading a lot of posts by both players and Sapience, listening to players talk in-game, and spending some time on both creep and freep since U10...I feel like what would actually be beneficial is for the player base to come up with solutions to perceived issues that are constructive. There are many players, like myself, who simply want to see the moors be what it can be. Players that pvp may be a minority on lotro, but I see no reason that we cannot all (players, devs, and community managers) strive to make pvp more populated and improve upon what we have in place. It seems to me that balance is a key concern for many, if not the vast majority of players.

    PvP balance in the moors has many factors to consider and the 4 that I consider most important are these.

    1) Monster Population vs Freep Population

    2) Monster Damage vs Freep Damage

    3) Monster Healing vs Freep Healing

    4) Monster CC vs Freep CC

    Other things like stats, traits etc are all important, but if those 4 things were balanced as well as possible I believe the moors would thrive. So how can we improve the balance in those areas?

    1) Monster Population vs Freep Population

    The population on each side ebbs and flows constantly and this might be the single biggest issue with pvp. Seldom does each side have equal numbers to provide good, even fights. The side with more numbers currently tends to either raid up or mob around the map snatching up all the Outpost buffs and Infamy Buffs (keeps and delving buffs). So not just does the side with numbers get all the buffs more easily, but they then get more points for each kill. This system rewards flipping to the more populated side. I propose two (hopefully) simple changes.

    -Bring back the timer for flipping to 30 minutes. For both sides. If you're in the moors on freep, 30 minutes to creepside and if you're on creep 30 minutes to go into the moors on freepside. This will prevent players from logging on their creep, see an all blue map and switch to freepside to get the easy points with the buffs.

    -Update the Outnumbered Buff. A scaling buff would be great. Small buff for being slightly outnumbered and have the buff increase the more outnumbered you become. Currently i find the buff to be pretty weak when one side has all outposts and all keeps outnumbering the other side heavily. A scaled buff would GREATLY improve the equality of action when one side is heavily outnumbering the other. This also helps prevent any sort of urge to flip. Why flip if you have a buff that equals things out? (I know people who 1vs1 will be opposed to this, but I think, generally, when one side is heavily outnumbering the other they already have the OP buffs and therefore this might actually make 1vs1s in such cases more even...just my opinion).

    2) Monster Damage vs Freep Damage

    I personally think this is the easiest of the 4 to fix or tweak. Freeps do consistently more damage than freeps. If you don't want to make any drastic changes (i.e. share audacity on all pieces of gear -rings, necklaces etc to force freeps to wear all aud gear in the moors and make that gear cheaper or even free to acquire) then simply buff creep damage. If a loremaster can crit for 10k+ ents then ba's and reavers should be on par.

    3) Monster Healing vs Freep Healing

    Seeing as how I don't play healers consistently out in the moors this one is harder for me to articulate. However, i see that one freep healer can easily keep several freeps alive against high ranked creeps while being focused heavily and a wl/defiler seems to struggle heavily in those same circumstances. Part of me believes that this would be fixed simply by fixing #2 (DPS). Increase Creep dps and freep healing doesn't seem to be so bad. Just my thought.

    4) Monster CC vs Freepside CC

    I think this is pretty close, but I think it's pretty well documented that Freeps have per class more CC than creeps. I think the bigger issue is CC prevention. With Stun Immunity on Lms it takes away a large percentage of creepside CC in many situations. A simple fix is to do one of two things. (1) Give warleaders a new aura that acts just like SI. This would force warleaders to make a choice and wouldn't be balance breaking in any way. (2) Buff Purge. Buff the duration and reduce the CD. Do that and I think most people would be satisfied.

    The other issue, which I am putting under CC is DoT removal. For me personally, this is the single biggest annoyance in pvp from a creep standpoint. As a spider, my dots can be removed in stacks, quite easily. Freepside has DoT stack removal capabilities for all 4 types of Dots. The non-pottable dots are all short duration making them non issues for freeps. Flip the situation around and creeps are limited to long duration, single DoT removal pots. LM puts 4 fire dots on you? Pot it and wait 2 seconds for it to be reapplied while you then wait for your pot to come off CD. From a balance standpoint this is pretty bad. Again, a simple fix imho. Defilers have many Hots, simply attach a DoT removal ability to one of them. Similar to SoS for Minis when geared. Removes one Dots every X amount of seconds. Not Overpowering, but very needed to deal with stacks of dots. Along with DoT stacks would be the long duration non-pottable dots (see wardens and guards). I'm used to them now, but if a warg could but a 60 second dot on somebody how long would it take for freeps to ask for it to be scaled down?


    -------------

    All in all, I simply want balance. I don't think anything I've suggested is balance breaking and I'd like to hear other people's suggestions. Please be reasonable and be constructive. If you wish to troll or make waves I ask that you take it elsewhere. If you believe that the balance is fine then by all means say it in a reasonable fashion. Thanks all
    Last edited by vertigo07; May 08 2013 at 08:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    26
    +1 or +2!

  3. #3
    I'm just going to speak to a couple of things. 99% of the time I play Freep and I agree with a lot of what you stated.

    CC in general is crazy out there. From a Freep standpoint get Wargs and Spiders together and it's a nightmare. Something's not checking correctly. Wargs by themselves are a non issue (sorry wargs). Except topple. My suggestion, just disable all CC in the moors. The CC argument could go on forever and everyone laugh at this together but..............the last two people that should be talking about CC are Spiders and RKs right? HiPS too, get rid of that on both sides. Start from stealth yeah, should end with that though.

    The other thing I'd comment on is the idea of buffing Creep damage, would make sense to me with a reduction in creep morale.

    WL bubbles need a longer cd.

    Heavily weighted towards my view on what I see as being out of whack with creeps I know. I fully agree, admit, and lament that this update has hit the creeps hard.


    Attended by Coldaen

  4. #4
    I'd agree about the morale pool thing if I wasn't seeing freeps with 20k+ morale. Saw a warden with 27k yesterday.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    924
    It is refreshing to see a thoughtful put together post so well written amidst all the... other posts around here lately. All of your ideas, in my humble opinion, would be great solutions to many of the problems that we see in the Ettenmoors. The 30 minute flip timer coming back would be my number one on the list. Not only does it promote loyalty to one particular side, but it also makes it easier (as you have stated) to keep the balance a little easier. We all know the pop tide in the 'Moors can ebb and flow greatly in a matter of minutes. Your other suggestions are spot on in regards to DPS and CC. I am not 100% on the train of that increasing DPS would help out with the lack of creep healing, however, I would be willing to try this out at some point!
    Babycaek™ GoodnTasty - Officer of The Black Appendage of Sauron - Elendilmir
    Missey Qalmetari the Poetical - 85 hunter Misadventurers

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post

    1) Monster Population vs Freep Population

    -Bring back the timer for flipping to 30 minutes. For both sides. If you're in the moors on freep, 30 minutes to creepside and if you're on creep 30 minutes to go into the moors on freepside. This will prevent players from logging on their creep, see an all blue map and switch to freepside to get the easy points with the buffs.
    Wow ok well how about the people (like me) who switches to the side thats losing? i love pvp and rarely do anything else except for leveling alts sometimes but if im stuck on the winning side and the choice is 30min to switch or stay...i would usually switch, but 30min is way way to much. sorry bro that needs to stay the same....everything else sounds good like scaling buff, everything except how to fix freep healing? no we need more dps and they need healing nerf no matter what.
    [IMG]http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz274/williamwegertjr/signigture_zps382aa4d5.jpg[/IMG]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Mazauk's den
    Posts
    526
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    -Bring back the timer for flipping to 30 minutes. For both sides. If you're in the moors on freep, 30 minutes to creepside and if you're on creep 30 minutes to go into the moors on freepside. This will prevent players from logging on their creep, see an all blue map and switch to freepside to get the easy points with the buffs.
    I think there is a problem bringing a lock when logging from creep to freep. Let's say you logged off your freep in moors. If you are on creep and want to log freep to join some pve raid or whatever you will have to wait 30 mins. You might say thats their own fault since they forgot to log out outside em(and you would maybe be right) but I still think this would cause a lot of tickets and complaints from many players.
    "Hey are you coming to the raid mate?"
    "Nah, I logged out my mini at GV again, so you and the others have to wait 30 mins for me, if its ok?"

    Then there would be the oposite problem if you were able to break the 30 mins rule by simply logging out in moors. It would be too easy to exploit.
    [center][IMG]http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t393/grapsn/1013265_608478239173945_469554244_n_zpsc9ae7993.jpg[/IMG] [/center]

    Hear me bark!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    Wow ok well how about the people (like me) who switches to the side thats losing? i love pvp and rarely do anything else except for leveling alts sometimes but if im stuck on the winning side and the choice is 30min to switch or stay...i would usually switch, but 30min is way way to much. sorry bro that needs to stay the same....everything else sounds good like scaling buff, everything except how to fix freep healing? no we need more dps and they need healing nerf no matter what.
    I could be wrong, but my experience is that you are the VAST minority when it comes to flipping. This would just be changing the flip timer back to what it used to be. I know it may be inconvenient, as it often was. I myself have flipped to help out the losing side in the past, but what I see now is people logging on and seeing an all blue or all red map and switching to the side with numbers. On Vilya right now one side often has everything and you'll see them with upwards of 150% inf buff, which is enough to make people to switch to that side. I applaud you for switching to the outnumbered side, but the idea of a timer is to protect quick changes in population. Even if people switch for the right reasons it can cause problems. Again, this isn't a perfect solution, but when the timer was longer previously the population ebb and flow was much easier to deal with.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by grapez View Post
    I think there is a problem bringing a lock when logging from creep to freep. Let's say you logged off your freep in moors. If you are on creep and want to log freep to join some pve raid or whatever you will have to wait 30 mins. You might say thats their own fault since they forgot to log out outside em(and you would maybe be right) but I still think this would cause a lot of tickets and complaints from many players.
    "Hey are you coming to the raid mate?"
    "Nah, I logged out my mini at GV again, so you and the others have to wait 30 mins for me, if its ok?"

    Then there would be the oposite problem if you were able to break the 30 mins rule by simply logging out in moors. It would be too easy to exploit.
    I thought of this, but it's just like if you are VIP and have your toon in the moors and then cancel your sub. Next time you log on your toon is not in the moors anymore. I would have to think that something like this would be easy enough to institute.

  10. #10
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,519
    I've removed a post that didn't fit in with the OP's theme and tone and would have probably led to the thread's closure down the road. Since the OP has put forward a well written suggestion, I'd hate to see that happen. So let's try to keep this on track shall we?

  11. #11
    Balancing damage and healing is tricky.

    Looking back, creeps have usually had better damage and healing at the beginning of expansions, while freeps have been on top near the end of an expansion cycle.

    Because creeps in general have fewer variables involved, it's probably easiest to balance by changing their damage and healing. That way freeps can be balanced against PvE encounters, and creeps can be balanced against the freeps.

    Your idea of introducing audacity for every equippable slot might make this easier, by more or less standardizing freep damage and healing in the Moors throughout an entire expansion's life. (The remaining variable would be legendary items, which can increase in power dramatically from third age to first age.) Would freeps submit to this sort of standardization for an entire expansion in terms of raw power?

    Otherwise, unless the developers can commit the time to test and rebalance damage and healing with every game update, I don't foresee creeps and freeps ever reaching consistent parity.

  12. #12
    This is probably one of the best, constructive threads I have seen I'm glad it came unsolicited from a tribe mate... thanks for being a voice of reason neuro!
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    23
    I'm sorry, I only play creepside so I don't understand how the 30 minute flip rule would work for freeps. If a freep goes to gv, sees a red map and decides he doesn't want to pvp, can he just leave gv and go back to playing freepside right away, or would he have to wait 30 minutes?

    Sincerely,
    Lou de Torres

  14. #14
    I agree that a major problem in the Moors is that the majority of the time it seems that one side is completely dominant and controls most of the map/buffs/fighting.

    I would suggest a new system for Keeps and Outposts to replace the current: Keeps give Inf/Ren buffs, with Outposts giving Mastery buffs.


    This new system would be in the mold of Creep Corruptions. Keeps and Outposts would both give buffs to Inf/Ren gains. I would suggest OP's at 10%, LC and Isen 15%, TR/Lugz 20%, and TA 30%. However, along with these buffs, there would be a penalty in the form of Mastery DE-buffs (or Mastery buffs for the opposing side, whichever way the numbers would work better). These buffs/de-buffs would be of similar, but possibly of lower magnitude to the current OP buffs.

    This would lead to the dominating side having to make some choices. "Do we hold the entire map and have our Inf/Ren gain buffed to the max? If so it will be harder to actually get the kills."

    It would also encourage the side that is being dominated. "Sure, we are facing a totally Blue map and a Grams camp, but we have a big Mastery advantage, lets go get some kills."

    I believe that this would help discourage Map domination, and also encourage the weaker side to come out to fight.



    This could also work as a sort of out-numbered buff, but that buff needs to be looked at separately and made smarter and more meaningful regardless.


    While we're at it, can we please get rid of the auto-flip of keeps? At the very least, TR should never go Red, and Lugz should never go Blue.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    I could be wrong, but my experience is that you are the VAST minority when it comes to flipping. This would just be changing the flip timer back to what it used to be. I know it may be inconvenient, as it often was. I myself have flipped to help out the losing side in the past, but what I see now is people logging on and seeing an all blue or all red map and switching to the side with numbers. On Vilya right now one side often has everything and you'll see them with upwards of 150% inf buff, which is enough to make people to switch to that side. I applaud you for switching to the outnumbered side, but the idea of a timer is to protect quick changes in population. Even if people switch for the right reasons it can cause problems. Again, this isn't a perfect solution, but when the timer was longer previously the population ebb and flow was much easier to deal with.
    In that case the timer should only apply when you are logging to the side with superior numbers. If you want to flip from the side that outnumbers to the underdog side, then you should not have to wait. That's the only way I'd consider the lock timer a good thing.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050100000ab25d/signature.png]Furpants[/charsig]

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I've removed a post that didn't fit in with the OP's theme and tone and would have probably led to the thread's closure down the road. Since the OP has put forward a well written suggestion, I'd hate to see that happen. So let's try to keep this on track shall we?
    Thank you. I appreciate it Sapience.

    Quote Originally Posted by FangtheLucky View Post
    I'm sorry, I only play creepside so I don't understand how the 30 minute flip rule would work for freeps. If a freep goes to gv, sees a red map and decides he doesn't want to pvp, can he just leave gv and go back to playing freepside right away, or would he have to wait 30 minutes?

    Sincerely,
    Lou de Torres
    Don't be sorry . The timer wouldn't affect pveing at all. You'd be free to go into a raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by mad_ox1 View Post
    I agree that a major problem in the Moors is that the majority of the time it seems that one side is completely dominant and controls most of the map/buffs/fighting.

    I would suggest a new system for Keeps and Outposts to replace the current: Keeps give Inf/Ren buffs, with Outposts giving Mastery buffs.


    This new system would be in the mold of Creep Corruptions. Keeps and Outposts would both give buffs to Inf/Ren gains. I would suggest OP's at 10%, LC and Isen 15%, TR/Lugz 20%, and TA 30%. However, along with these buffs, there would be a penalty in the form of Mastery DE-buffs (or Mastery buffs for the opposing side, whichever way the numbers would work better). These buffs/de-buffs would be of similar, but possibly of lower magnitude to the current OP buffs.

    This would lead to the dominating side having to make some choices. "Do we hold the entire map and have our Inf/Ren gain buffed to the max? If so it will be harder to actually get the kills."

    It would also encourage the side that is being dominated. "Sure, we are facing a totally Blue map and a Grams camp, but we have a big Mastery advantage, lets go get some kills."

    I believe that this would help discourage Map domination, and also encourage the weaker side to come out to fight.



    This could also work as a sort of out-numbered buff, but that buff needs to be looked at separately and made smarter and more meaningful regardless.


    While we're at it, can we please get rid of the auto-flip of keeps? At the very least, TR should never go Red, and Lugz should never go Blue.
    An interesting idea. I think it's similar in nature to the Outnumbered Buff scaling idea. The big thing is maintaining balance even when numbers are grossly outbalanced. The tricky thing, I believe, is maintaining rewards for capture and hold gameplay without making it overpowered.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by sideshowstanley View Post
    In that case the timer should only apply when you are logging to the side with superior numbers. If you want to flip from the side that outnumbers to the underdog side, then you should not have to wait. That's the only way I'd consider the lock timer a good thing.
    The problem is that even flipping for a good reason can be an issue. I've seen a whole group flip from a side with overwhelming numbers to the outnumbered side attempting to restore balance, but only switching the numbers to the other side. I.e. entirely blue map and a Kinship switches all to creep and simply PvE's the map all red.

    It's not that I'm against your idea, but I think it would be much more difficult to implement than simply restoring the old timer and creating a scaling Outnumbered Buff. The big reason you want to switch to help is because they NEED it. However, if you scale the outnumbered buff so that the side with fewer numbers isn't at a huge disadvantage, you can simply play the side you initially intended to play on. Do you catch my drift?

    The big issue is that the current system ENCOURAGES flipping to the side with numbers. Play with the side that has more numbers, be more powerful, get more points. I think you try and fix that by giving the outnumbered side a little bit of help hence buffing the outnumbered buff and perhaps scaling it a bit.

    Again, I see where you're coming from, but I think experience tells us that when the old timer was in place there was less of an issue with the massive population imbalance.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    28
    I agree with the Thread opener on many points, except log time.

    The things that upset me is the short-term thinking and the lack of communication (monologue) we have when talking about important issues in PvMP without the contribution from turbine. To implement changes without thinking about the consequences is a bad thing. If you make changes in PvE, then these changes will of course affect PvMP as well. Freeps got buffed with the last update (new gear, jewellery, etc.). How long will it take till creeps got buffed too? There's no sense in having twice the moral of a freep when taking at least three or four times more damage. Therefore i'm not very statisfied with the current PvMP Situation.

    However turbine did a good job nerfing guardian, brands, but there's still a lot work to do. Equality should be the goal. It's time for another nerf for some classes and class skills like (LM-water-lore, Survivability wardens-never surrender, RK Healing stance). Some skills should be deactivated cuz they're just too overpowered for PvMP. To get points for healing was a good idea, but not well implemented, because the amount of points (too much) you get leads to more opportunism (Healing even when full of moral).

    A wide range of players are unable or unwilling to play fair (freaver farming, spying), so there need to be some rules set by turbine. There's no reason why log time is still only 5 minutes. To prevent winning-team-joining it should be about at least 1 hour (30 minutes in my opinion isn't enough), switching keeps from blue to red or from red to blue should not be enabled in such a short time. I've made the experience that you can not trust the players. They're trying to use every little gap of exploit, bug, opportunity even if it's an unfair step.

    I like the fact that finally something has been done in the moors with the last updates, hats off turbine! (f. e. reaver/defiler buff). But there's still much space for improvements. Every single PvE Update will probably affect PvMP experience, therefore these changes need to be appropriately taken into consideration. Long-term thinking is the key. I hope Turbine will take the challenge.
    Last edited by Momadan; May 09 2013 at 03:47 AM.

  19. #19
    I still have to read it all and let it sink in, but I just wanted to say: awesome post!! really awesome!

    And I'm so happy Sapience is so supportive which clearly shows they appreciate this post as well So thank you very much Sapience.

    Both +10 rep.

  20. #20
    I think positive reinforcement is always a good way to get results... no one like to nerf things especially when we can counter them! so instead of a lockout how about a reward for staying on a side or maybe a reward for forfeiting the option of the opposing side?

    A question I have is what would people think was acceptable to be willing to do those things? Infamy/renown buff? Audacity buff?
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    26
    What about 30 minutes timer but the possibility to log if outnumbered buff is up?

    Example:
    Creeps: 100 vs Freeps: 15. Freeps gets the outnumbered buff. If a freep log out to and wants to get to creepside (switcher!), has to wait 30 minutes (or more). If a creep log out to help the minority and log in his freep, no timer.

    I will also increase possibility of outnumbered buff (actually i see the buff when it's a super zerg, not when its a big zerg ^^).

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    I'd agree about the morale pool thing if I wasn't seeing freeps with 20k+ morale. Saw a warden with 27k yesterday.
    those might be only guards or tanks. And in tanking mode and more or less buffed. They might be harder to kill, but pose no real threat.
    A warden with 27k morale in nothing more than an moving obstacle, really. An annoyance, of course, if you can't kill him easily, but I doubt he would do any harm to any half competent creep.
    Btw, I so far never trait shield in the Moors. 5r/1y/1b and about 13k morale unbuffed. It gives much more satifcation than turtling. Enough to win 1v1, no chance against 3 good creeps, but anyway if I was shield I wouldn't harm them, and in raid situation more dps is always better, while turtling warden is of no real use.

    Sorry for being a bit offtopic. Good thread btw I hope some of ideas will have a closer look from the devs.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/20224000000100363/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    Warden(85), Minstrel(85), Rune-Keeper(85), Burglar(85), Captain(85), Hunter(85)

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    7
    Yeah, the 30 min timer would be alot better than 5 mins, everyone switches to whichever side is better at the moment...leaving creeps high and dry usually

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Eriador
    Posts
    763
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    After reading a lot of posts by both players and Sapience, listening to players talk in-game, and spending some time on both creep and freep since U10...I feel like what would actually be beneficial is for the player base to come up with solutions to perceived issues that are constructive. There are many players, like myself, who simply want to see the moors be what it can be. Players that pvp may be a minority on lotro, but I see no reason that we cannot all (players, devs, and community managers) strive to make pvp more populated and improve upon what we have in place. It seems to me that balance is a key concern for many, if not the vast majority of players.

    PvP balance in the moors has many factors to consider and the 4 that I consider most important are these.

    1) Monster Population vs Freep Population

    2) Monster Damage vs Freep Damage

    3) Monster Healing vs Freep Healing

    4) Monster CC vs Freep CC

    Other things like stats, traits etc are all important, but if those 4 things were balanced as well as possible I believe the moors would thrive. So how can we improve the balance in those areas?
    Looks like an excellent summary.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    1) Monster Population vs Freep Population

    The population on each side ebbs and flows constantly and this might be the single biggest issue with pvp. Seldom does each side have equal numbers to provide good, even fights. The side with more numbers currently tends to either raid up or mob around the map snatching up all the Outpost buffs and Infamy Buffs (keeps and delving buffs). So not just does the side with numbers get all the buffs more easily, but they then get more points for each kill. This system rewards flipping to the more populated side. I propose two (hopefully) simple changes.

    -Bring back the timer for flipping to 30 minutes. For both sides. If you're in the moors on freep, 30 minutes to creepside and if you're on creep 30 minutes to go into the moors on freepside. This will prevent players from logging on their creep, see an all blue map and switch to freepside to get the easy points with the buffs.

    -Update the Outnumbered Buff. A scaling buff would be great. Small buff for being slightly outnumbered and have the buff increase the more outnumbered you become. Currently i find the buff to be pretty weak when one side has all outposts and all keeps outnumbering the other side heavily. A scaled buff would GREATLY improve the equality of action when one side is heavily outnumbering the other. This also helps prevent any sort of urge to flip. Why flip if you have a buff that equals things out? (I know people who 1vs1 will be opposed to this, but I think, generally, when one side is heavily outnumbering the other they already have the OP buffs and therefore this might actually make 1vs1s in such cases more even...just my opinion).
    I'm against the timer, though see your logic. As someone else mentioned, there are those of us who'll switch to the outnumbered side in order to try and balance the fight a bit. If the map is blue, I log in Creep, if the map is red I log in Freep. It's actually something that much of my tribe/kin does, often together.

    I am totally with you on the dynamic outnumbered buff though, and it's something I've been suggesting myself for months. There is already a mechanism in place that tracks relative population, and mechanisms in place to deal with people going AFK or being "in base" (Characters in Grams/GV, or AFK on the stairs, shouldn't count - in order to prevent using alts to shift the balance)

    It would just require some tuning to the ON buff itself and adding some

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    2) Monster Damage vs Freep Damage

    I personally think this is the easiest of the 4 to fix or tweak. Freeps do consistently more damage than freeps. If you don't want to make any drastic changes (i.e. share audacity on all pieces of gear -rings, necklaces etc to force freeps to wear all aud gear in the moors and make that gear cheaper or even free to acquire) then simply buff creep damage. If a loremaster can crit for 10k+ ents then ba's and reavers should be on par.
    Sounds about right. That way the existing "tuned for PvE" freepside weapons and equipment can stay the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    3) Monster Healing vs Freep Healing

    Seeing as how I don't play healers consistently out in the moors this one is harder for me to articulate. However, i see that one freep healer can easily keep several freeps alive against high ranked creeps while being focused heavily and a wl/defiler seems to struggle heavily in those same circumstances. Part of me believes that this would be fixed simply by fixing #2 (DPS). Increase Creep dps and freep healing doesn't seem to be so bad. Just my thought.
    Even if they increase the damage Creepside, there is still the difference in healing magnitude. I would say if you buff one, you should buff the other. Freeps have more options for healing on their side, and all the existing Freep healers also do impressive damage - unlike the Creepside healers.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    4) Monster CC vs Freepside CC

    I think this is pretty close, but I think it's pretty well documented that Freeps have per class more CC than creeps. I think the bigger issue is CC prevention. With Stun Immunity on Lms it takes away a large percentage of creepside CC in many situations. A simple fix is to do one of two things. (1) Give warleaders a new aura that acts just like SI. This would force warleaders to make a choice and wouldn't be balance breaking in any way. (2) Buff Purge. Buff the duration and reduce the CD. Do that and I think most people would be satisfied.

    The other issue, which I am putting under CC is DoT removal. For me personally, this is the single biggest annoyance in pvp from a creep standpoint. As a spider, my dots can be removed in stacks, quite easily. Freepside has DoT stack removal capabilities for all 4 types of Dots. The non-pottable dots are all short duration making them non issues for freeps. Flip the situation around and creeps are limited to long duration, single DoT removal pots. LM puts 4 fire dots on you? Pot it and wait 2 seconds for it to be reapplied while you then wait for your pot to come off CD. From a balance standpoint this is pretty bad. Again, a simple fix imho. Defilers have many Hots, simply attach a DoT removal ability to one of them. Similar to SoS for Minis when geared. Removes one Dots every X amount of seconds. Not Overpowering, but very needed to deal with stacks of dots. Along with DoT stacks would be the long duration non-pottable dots (see wardens and guards). I'm used to them now, but if a warg could but a 60 second dot on somebody how long would it take for freeps to ask for it to be scaled down?
    This is something else that has been an annoyance for a long time. Freep side has far more options for removing DoT's/Debuffs, and far more ways to stack them up than Creepside does. I still remember geared Burgs dropping all the DoT's and Debuffs with a HiPS if they had the appropriate gear on - while Wargs would get popped back out of Stealth 10 seconds after a HiPS by the stack of 55 second burns.


    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    -------------

    All in all, I simply want balance. I don't think anything I've suggested is balance breaking and I'd like to hear other people's suggestions. Please be reasonable and be constructive. If you wish to troll or make waves I ask that you take it elsewhere. If you believe that the balance is fine then by all means say it in a reasonable fashion. Thanks all
    We are completely on the same page here. With the exception of the 30 minute "flip prevention" cooldown on logging from one side to the other, I would have to agree with all your points. Though I think the O.N. buff you suggest in 1 (as I have before) would negate the need for the cooldown. After all. If you flip to the "winning side" you would actually be contributing to a buff for the losing side. A self-correcting system.

    Wargie Snax(tm) for you.
    Hobbits . . .
    Now them's good eatin'!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Eriador
    Posts
    763
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadzy View Post
    Yeah, the 30 min timer would be alot better than 5 mins, everyone switches to whichever side is better at the moment...leaving creeps high and dry usually
    If they implement the dynamic outnumbered buff, the flipping becomes much less of an issue. Flippers would actually be contributing to the boff for the other side and, if it's scaled right, would negate much of the numbers difference.
    Hobbits . . .
    Now them's good eatin'!

 

 
Page 1 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload