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  1. #1

    Can some instances be duo'd?

    The title says it (almost) all: can a hunter-and-guardian pair duo any instance and if yes, which and how?
    -> We're lvl 75 and still lvling, with basic equipment.

    Now that the main question is out of the way, a bit more context:
    My partner and I have been playing since F2P and have been going VIP recently. We've never been part of a kin and we have always played as a team. We've never done any instances, and as we're nearing the end of the epic quest and the level/crafting caps we'd like to explore more of what the game has to offer.

    As for the answers to the obvious solutions to our quandary:

    * We will probably join a kin when we're done with the main quest - with the main intention to help other people quest or craft. It would feel hypocritical to join a kin for our own benefit only (i.e. to play instances).

    * I've only recently discovered GLLF but I don't know whether it's the right channel to find people who'd be tolerant of instance newbies. That's not a big problem for me because I'm a hunter and that's not exactly a subtle class to play, but it might be for my partner - I'm assuming that people have little patience with an inexperienced tank.

  2. #2
    LOTRO has quite a few 3-player instances, and most of them can scale to your level. If you find a healer who's willing to help you out as you learn them, I think you'll enjoy it.

    If you'd like to practice with just the two of you, you could set the level of the instance to something considerably lower. This would give you an idea of the layout of each instance, the types of opponents and bosses you'll face, and the kind of strategies you might use.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    LOTRO has quite a few 3-player instances, and most of them can scale to your level. If you find a healer who's willing to help you out as you learn them, I think you'll enjoy it.

    If you'd like to practice with just the two of you, you could set the level of the instance to something considerably lower. This would give you an idea of the layout of each instance, the types of opponents and bosses you'll face, and the kind of strategies you might use.
    How low compared to a lvl 75 for example would be survivable while still presenting enough of a challenge to be efficient training?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    How low compared to a lvl 75 for example would be survivable while still presenting enough of a challenge to be efficient training?
    It's hard to say, and it will vary from instance to instance. I'd guess that you could definitely complete a 3-player instance set to level 50 or 60 with two level 75 characters. If it's too easy, try it again at a higher level. If it's too hard, drop it down 5 or 10 more levels. With 6-player instances, you might want to start out a bit lower.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    How low compared to a lvl 75 for example would be survivable while still presenting enough of a challenge to be efficient training?
    I done a number of 3 man instances at character level with two characters. It depends on the classes used, equipment and player skill and the particular instance.

    School at Tham Mirdain is in my personal opinion the easiest of the 3 person instances. Unfortunately, there is no challenge quest but you only get the challenge when your character is level 85 and the instance is set to level 85.

    The big problem you are going to have is that you do not have a healer. School is easy with a combo like Guardian and Captain. The Captain's healing is sufficient. A Captain is a heavy so they do not take the beating a Minstrel or Rune Keeper would when one or more turns on them.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    The big problem you are going to have is that you do not have a healer
    You don't need any healer for 3-Man, as all 3-Man instances are now easily soloable by champs for example.
    Not by hunters though, but with a guardian, it should be easy...

  7. #7
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    Like the others have said, a couple are actually soloable, depending on class. If you're gonna try duoing School for the first time, don't go any lower than 70 (if you're still at 75).

    On the subject of newbie tanks: luckily your friend picked the easier class. As a guard you don't have to know what you're doing as much as a warden in order to hold aggro. (You still need to learn obviously, because the better your DPSers, the more likely you'll lose mobs.) More of a 'newbie friendly' tank, as it were. Many people in GLFF won't mind as long as you say something like "2/6 for x instance. Tank is learning so it may go a little slower than normal." Probably take ya a little while longer to find people but you should be able to find a group that doesn't mind.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    (You still need to learn obviously, because the better your DPSers, the more likely you'll lose mobs.)
    Well he's already checked a bunch of guides to optimize his traits, skills and playstyle and every mob that escapes him he takes as a personal insult, as well as a sort of "oh gawd I'm failing at protecting my girlfriend this is UNACCEPTABLE" thing. Very serious business.

    We're trying to push big trains of red mobs nowadays to see how that goes, and so far it's going fine (even when I spam rain of arrows crits) but I don't know how reliable an indicator it is for the experience with a whole group. Do more DPSers mean losing mobs more easily?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    Well he's already checked a bunch of guides to optimize his traits, skills and playstyle and every mob that escapes him he takes as a personal insult, as well as a sort of "oh gawd I'm failing at protecting my girlfriend this is UNACCEPTABLE" thing. Very serious business.

    We're trying to push big trains of red mobs nowadays to see how that goes, and so far it's going fine (even when I spam rain of arrows crits) but I don't know how reliable an indicator it is for the experience with a whole group. Do more DPSers mean losing mobs more easily?
    You may be pleased to know that it's actually the exact opposite!
    Let me see if I can explain this accurately. (I am absolutely terrible at explaining things.)

    So you've got you and a guard. If a guard has more threat than you, he'll have the aggro. He only has to worry about losing it to you.

    Little while later, you've picked up another hunter. That hunter happens to do less damage than you. In this case, your guard only has to worry about losing the aggro to you still (because the other hunter is generating less than you are), and you're still building aggro at the same rate as before (because your DPS hasn't magically increased). However, your guard has a threat leech, which pulls aggro off of both you and the other hunter, which means the guard's aggro is rising faster than it was before, providing you're both within threat leech range. (Side note: you're probably not. Hunters rarely are.)

    So basically, long story short is that the only reason more DPSers means you may lose aggro more easily is because A) they're not all on the same target, or B) more DPSers means a greater chance of finding a better DPSer who generates more aggro than average on his or her own.
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  10. #10
    Now, even 85 skraids can be done in duo or solo...
    We just did yesterday "Stand at Amon Sûl" skraid in duo, Champ + Mini, it was even too easy, but long (> 2 hours)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    You don't need any healer for 3-Man, as all 3-Man instances are now easily soloable by champs for example.
    Not by hunters though, but with a guardian, it should be easy...
    If you can solo Dargnakh or Webs with a champ, I would be impressed.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    You don't need any healer for 3-Man, as all 3-Man instances are now easily soloable by champs for example.
    Not by hunters though, but with a guardian, it should be easy...
    You are likely speaking as a veteran 85 who is way overgeared. This post isn't really helpful to people who are newer and still leveling.

    I would say you should be able to duo some of them though. School is a great suggestion for starting out. Also, I have found that if you just let people know you are still learning, most will still go with you and not get mad about mistakes.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    You are likely speaking as a veteran 85 who is way overgeared
    No, "normal" gear (Hytbold, only 1 gold class item)
    In 3-Man now, heavy classes just have to run to the boss, pulling and killing all mobs at same time
    (for example in School a friend warden, still with some 75 jewels (GR), pull all mobs, and keep his morale at maximum nearly all the time. It became ridiculous, seriously...)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    No, "normal" gear (Hytbold, only 1 gold class item)
    In 3-Man now, heavy classes just have to run to the boss, pulling and killing all mobs at same time
    (for example in School a friend warden, still with some 75 jewels (GR), pull all mobs, and keep his morale at maximum nearly all the time. It became ridiculous, seriously...)
    Hytbold gear is raid gear. Wardens don't count. They are OP right now and these two aren't using one. These instances are not nearly as easy when still learning and not in raid gear.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    Well he's already checked a bunch of guides to optimize his traits, skills and playstyle and every mob that escapes him he takes as a personal insult, as well as a sort of "oh gawd I'm failing at protecting my girlfriend this is UNACCEPTABLE" thing. Very serious business.

    We're trying to push big trains of red mobs nowadays to see how that goes, and so far it's going fine (even when I spam rain of arrows crits) but I don't know how reliable an indicator it is for the experience with a whole group. Do more DPSers mean losing mobs more easily?
    From what I read here you both will have no problem joining or starting a PUG group You are willing to learn and that is the most important part.

    I also believe that if people level in a tank+dps duo and try the appropriate roles already in duo (i.e. the tank is actually traited for tanking), they will easily adapt to larger groups. My first toon was a hunter and all the way to level cap was completed with my husband's warden. Lotro was the first MMO for both of us, we tried to duo some instances while leveling (original Fornost). Later we joined a kinship and started grouping with strangers: it felt very similar to duo but now our morale was not dropping because someone was healing us.

    An advice for a tank: probably the most common mistake of new tanks is not losing agro but bad positioning. If the tank remembers to turn big mobs (specially trolls) away from fellows, no one will call him a "noob".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    So basically, long story short is that the only reason more DPSers means you may lose aggro more easily is because A) they're not all on the same target, or B) more DPSers means a greater chance of finding a better DPSer who generates more aggro than average on his or her own.
    Well, basically true, but some details can change that a lot. Stuff like Captain with Oath Breakers/Blade Brother/War Cry increases group DPS a lot, similar for Burgs and their tricks. To a smaller degree also Champs (with Improved Rend) can increase group DPS, and I guess Loremasters too (don't know enough about them).
    If you see a Captain using OB and you have some high DPS players in your group you better have your Challenges and/or Engage ready as a Guard.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  17. #17
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    Hi,

    Off topic:
    It's a bit funny always seeing the 'everything is easy'-comments... Sure i have no big issues soloing school at level with my 85 champ. Or duoing any 3-man together with my wife at 85.

    But there is one very big difference:

    Most players don't stay put at a previous end-game-level (75 in this case) to do some 3 months of gearing up. This means what i/we found easy at 75 (or now do while pouring an ale at 85...) might not be easy at all for someone in quest-gear/crafted, 3'rd agers and lousy relics...

    Back to topic:
    Just take your time, choose one instance (i second school, because it's quite short and not so hard, but still has some fun fight-mechanics to learn) and then just go for it!

    If you are 75, don't feel ashamed of starting it at 65 or so. Just test it out, check the environment etc. Then you raise the level everytime you make it with a level or 2. Hunter & Guard dou has one drawback: Almost non-existing self-heals. (Compared with a champ for example - 2 bubbels and some very nice self-heals - the guard + hunter are pretty bad off)

    But dont let this discourage you: This only makes the achievement bigger when you finally make it

    Regards and good luck with the RNG for some nice loot.

    /T
    Dawarad HNT | Dawadan MIN | Dawfast CMP | Dawaran CPT | Dawmur GRD | Dawared WRD | Dawagrim RK | Dawaras LM | Daweric BRG | Dawagar MIN | Dawarar CMP | Dawnakh WRG | Dawbag BA | Dawgil WVR | Dawglob WL |

 

 

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