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  1. #1
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    Help a Lazy Captain Out: U10 Raid Builds

    So, I took a school-related hiatus from the game starting just after U10 hit. This means I'm totally behind on actually getting all my gear, for one, but for another I've lost touch a bit with what Captains are actually expected to do in the current end-game raids. Is LtC for raiding still a thing or have we gone over to 4/3 Hybrid or pure HoH builds based around Valiant Strike? Are non-PvP Captains comboing 4/2 on Erebor sets or are there gold armour pieces worth mixing into our builds in place of the /2 pieces? Has every Captain in the world suddenly switched to running S&B without telling me? Etc.

    I'm hoping that my fellow Captains would be so generous as to share their most common builds (both traits and gear/LIs) for the current end game. I can look up what the best-in-slot items are, but I'm more interested in how people are putting the pieces together. Also, if you've got the time, I'd appreciate some commentary along the lines of "I wanted to put X bracelet on for the crit, but I wound up needing to use Y to keep my Vitality up" or "This build goes light on the Fate, so you need to watch your power use". That sort of thing.

    I'll put the most interesting ones in this top post, to help out anybody else in my situation who comes along later. (And, yes, obviously U11 is not that far away, so some stuff might change, but it's unlikely to shake up the core of most of the builds people are using now.)

    EDIT: Begin my compilation of useful advice...

    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon
    Well, LtC isn't as great for raiding anymore, since the U10 raids are actually somewhat difficult (at least in comparison to scaled BG). You could probably get away with LtC in Smaug, but I wouldn't recommend it in BfE or Flight.

    ...

    My common armour setup is 2 Perseverance, and then either 4 Command or 4 H-Healer, depending on whether our group needs more heals or more damage. I've been playing around with 2 Pers 2 Draig 2 Hele, but that's going away with U11. If you're a non-PvP captain, honestly at this point I'd say you should still probably be going 4/2 but using Helegrod in place of Perseverance.
    Quote Originally Posted by warwalker
    my raid setup is two for the earrings from dale, the gold tact mit/crit D neck, two crafted eomer bracelets (until i get one of the annuminas capt bracelet), hoary platinum band from lib, might proc ring, 2 pers/4 command or 2 pers/4 hyt Heal with sarchol as my cloak
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor
    In PvE RAIDs nothing beats 2 Perseverance + 4 Hytbold Healer for DPS and heal duty. If you are tanking, 2 erebor leader+2 perseverance+2 any crit defense are probably best.
    About builds: LtC works quite well in RAIDs with many targets/defeat events. Ost Dunnoth, Flight and Smaug come to mind, but BfE with reinforcements is a T2 where the main strategy actually benefits from a LtC Captain helping a champion to kill adds waves. In more than one occasion i actually advocate going LtC+S&B to benefit from faster skills animations, rallying cry spam and a shield.
    Re: using gold items in a build.
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon
    If you're not going to do PvP armour or Helegrod armour, I think you're probably still better off with another 2-piece set bonus. Throw in some bonus Shadow's Lament damage or a power return or something. The golds are decent, if you can get 'em, but good luck getting 'em. I've been extremely lucky to get the shield (arguably the second best gold) and the cloak (definitely second best gold if you're not a shield user) but even those took a ridiculous amount of runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie
    Blue+HoH with S&B for erebor T2 raids (except perhaps Smaug)
    All 6-man & 3-man = Red + MoW & 2-h
    Nice Might+Crit bracelets coming in U11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalion
    2 Moors Pers + 4 Hytbold Healing
    With the jewellery set up of:
    2 x Easterling Sorcerors Golden Earing (150 Might, 211 + Morale, 768 Crit)(From Dale)
    1 x Critted Wrymfire Necklace of Strength (mainly for the high Might and Crit Defence)
    1 x Annuminas Captain's Bracelet
    1 x non critted Horselords Might Bracelet
    1 x Ring of the Abandoned Hall (150 Might, 382 Tact Mast, 384 Parry, and 970 Crit Defence)(From OD)
    1 x Confiscated Journal (113 might, 421 Morale, and 768 Crit)

    I also have the Malledrim Captain's Shield.

    ...

    For Extra Tactical Mitigations I'll switch out and use Gregolin and the Wold's Iron Bauble(Rohan Rep vendor) to gain an extra 3k tact mit, as well as the Hytbold Leader's Shoulder's, and Im usually just over 50% tactical mitigation with virtues.

    I've found that with a little bit of Crit Defence, it makes a huge difference, also, I use a shield (even though I prefer a two hander, but that cappy shield is too insane not to use), I also have 20% block. Even with a high Might and Crit build, my cappy isn't really squishy. Though that can come down to positioning or group make up as well.

    ...

    Oh and these are the relics that I run on LI's

    True setting of the North:
    330 Morale, 646 Crit, 1616 Incoming healing (I noticed that alot of cappies don't run with Incoming healing, and before update 10 were getting one shotted alot. I'd also rather be easy to heal from any heal source)

    Eastemnet Gem of Charity:
    182 Tact Mit, 808 Tact Mast, 310 Power

    Eastemnet Rune of Power:
    182 Phys Mit, 646 Phys Mast, 646 Tact Mast, 30 Fate

    Crafted Emblem of Insight:
    30 Fate, 640 Crit, 640 Tact Mast
    Last edited by furtim; May 07 2013 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Added helpful stuff from the thread.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  2. #2
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    Well, LtC isn't as great for raiding anymore, since the U10 raids are actually somewhat difficult (at least in comparison to scaled BG). You could probably get away with LtC in Smaug, but I wouldn't recommend it in BfE or Flight. All of that is T2 of course, T1 is laughable and you really don't need any more heals than red line will give for any of those on T1.

    For all other content, I go red line, and I'm usually the only healer in the group. A couple instances get tricky like that but most are a walk in the park.

    (For red traits, I go Elendil Damage, PA/DB damage, war banner, Turn of the Tide, and the CD for Battle-shout. For blue, it's the common 5, with the hope banner, power costs, and Strength from Within not being traited.)

    My common armour setup is 2 Perseverance, and then either 4 Command or 4 H-Healer, depending on whether our group needs more heals or more damage. I've been playing around with 2 Pers 2 Draig 2 Hele, but that's going away with U11. If you're a non-PvP captain, honestly at this point I'd say you should still probably be going 4/2 but using Helegrod in place of Perseverance. The boost to heals more than makes up for the slight drop in survivability. For solo purposes, probably not as important.

    BiS earring is the Bells of Dale one, which offers the same crit as the BG one, but with more might and gives +max morale instead of +max power. BG one works just fine though. I'm using a Bangle of Echoing Battle and the bracelet that drops from Annuminas with the might proc. Journal is still the best pocket item unless you can't get your hands on the Annuminas bracelet, in which case the better pocket item is probably the Sambrog pocket that has the same might proc. For rings I'm using the crit proc and Beremud's Battered Ring. I'll probably swap Beremud's out for the Mender's proc ring once U11 hits and the ring is fixed. Best cloak is obviously the gold from Fornost, but if you can't get that, second best cloak drops from Bells (the same instance that drops the earring you'll want).
    Last edited by TinDragon; May 05 2013 at 05:57 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Following off of what TinDragon said.....

    I honestly wouldn't put too much effort into the Bracelets or the Pocket (ie: do Sambrog and OE to get gear), cause the rep ones in U11 are going to trump most of the other choices out there IMO. That said, Tin's advice is still solid.

    Thadur has a fairly decent might/vit/tactical mitigation necklace if you can't get ahold of a wyrmfire gold crafted necklace (went with the tactical mit/crit d variant myself). Gold ToO DIY might necklace is still fairly good at 85, if you have that.

    For the rings.... I'm running with the might/crit proc ones. Other choices are:
    +Crit Defence/+Incoming Healing on incoming damage
    Self HoT on incoming damage

    I'm contemplating use the might/crit D + vitality/mitigations proc rings for the 'moors, in place of the 85 PvMP rings.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  4. #4
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    I find myself getting too squishy when I build Might/Crit. Right now, I'm wearing 4 Hyt-Healer/2 Hyt-Leader to pick up the slack. How are you guys dealing with that?

    (For the same reason, I wouldn't even consider looking at Helegrod stuff.)

    Could be that my jewelry is just lagging too far behind. I've only got the teal Orthanc stuff, since my kin didn't complete Saruman often enough to drop a clasp for me, back when that was the end game. Might have to try getting in some Thadur or Erebor runs to see if I can get a better one. By the Might/Crit proc rings, you're referring to the upgraded Rohan rings? I've got my eye on them as soon as I can get into some Erebor raids.

    Good tip on the Dale earring, too. Still haven't done that one, so I'm gonna have to try it. (I did BfE twice and the other Erebor instances not at all before I dropped off the face of Middle-Earth!)
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  5. #5
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    For the proc rings, I'm specifically using the might rings, one with crit proc, the other with might proc.

    I don't see myself as all that squishy (I do tend to work in a lot of tactical mitigation to help offset this) - I will actually need to get back into more raiding as time permits, so my perspective is kinda skewed atm =/

    (what play time I have is either spent on BR or in non-raid instancing, with the rare trip into the 'Moors).
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  6. #6
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    ok here goes

    my raid setup is two for the earrings from dale, the gold tact mit/crit D neck, two crafted eomer bracelets (until i get one of the annuminas capt bracelet), hoary platinum band from lib, might proc ring, 2 pers/4 command or 2 pers/4 hyt Heal with sarchol as my cloak

    my stats are unbufffed (this is without the crit proc at all) around 9k crit, 10.5k morale, 25K tm with 4 command but 27-8K with 4 hyt heal, capped phys mit and around 10k tact mit, this build seems to suit my raid group really well

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    I find myself getting too squishy when I build Might/Crit. Right now, I'm wearing 4 Hyt-Healer/2 Hyt-Leader to pick up the slack. How are you guys dealing with that?
    Two Perseverance adds quite a bit of vitality and morale. Command makes it even more ridiculous. I oftentimes find myself trying to drop morale in favor of other stats.

    (For the same reason, I wouldn't even consider looking at Helegrod stuff.)
    I've never found myself particularly squishy even wearing two Helegrod, but this may stem from the fact that captain is automatically my sturdiest toon. Other two choices are hunter and LM, which are both significantly squishier than my captain could ever be. (Additionally, I have the gold shield so if for some reason I am taking more damage than normal while wearing a lower armour set, I just pop that thing on and my survivability automatically jumps up again.)

    Could be that my jewelry is just lagging too far behind. I've only got the teal Orthanc stuff, since my kin didn't complete Saruman often enough to drop a clasp for me, back when that was the end game. Might have to try getting in some Thadur or Erebor runs to see if I can get a better one.
    I've got the gold Orthanc and haven't found anything I'd like to replace it with, to include the new gold necklaces that are dropping. I actually have a might recipe in my bags that I haven't used yet. If you've got the teal though, you should definitely upgrade. There's three similar necklaces with might: one has tac mit, one has block, and one has physical mastery. Probably a few others, but those three in particular are all easy to get and are very similar in the first two stats, if I'm remembering correctly.

    By the Might/Crit proc rings, you're referring to the upgraded Rohan rings? I've got my eye on them as soon as I can get into some Erebor raids.
    Definitely get the crit proc one, I don't think you can find crit procs on any other gear. Maybe one other piece that I decided I definitely didn't want to replace what I already had, I dunno. Point is, it's rare.

    The might proc, on the other hand, isn't as rare. There's a pocket with the might proc, and not one but two bracelets with it as well, one of them being a class gold. Since you can't proc multiple stacks of +113 or +122 might, it's usually not worth wearing more than one of them. Since I've got the bracelet with +113 proc on it already, I felt getting the gold ring for an extra +9 on the proc might wasn't worth it when I could just wear a ring with 28 more raw might instead. You may decide differently, it's gonna depend a lot on what other jewelry you get.

    Also remember that there's a new gold ring for healing purposes that is currently broke, but should work very well for a boost to your group healing after U11.
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  8. #8
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    For those wondering, the U11 rep gear can be seen here
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    I find myself getting too squishy when I build Might/Crit. Right now, I'm wearing 4 Hyt-Healer/2 Hyt-Leader to pick up the slack. How are you guys dealing with that?
    In my experience - if you are building your captain to be a main-healer - you are going to be somewhat squishy no matter what since you are generally going to lack in avoidance. Probably the most effective way to off-set this would be to wear a shield in my opinion, but that will hurt your offense some. It's those fights with lots of adds that will probably give you the most trouble - because without high avoidance it's almost impossible to survive against swarms of adds bearing down on you, and all that AoE healing we do makes us very tantalizing to the enemy.

    But a good tank helps more than anything else. It's amazing the difference a skilled tank can make. It can literally be the difference in me being barely scratched on a fight and a fight I can't stay alive on no matter what I try. So in short: Nothing beats having a good tank.

    Otherwise, using your hope banner to boost your morale on fights you are having trouble staying alive on can make a difference. Muster Courage helps too. So can boosting your morale, vitality, and mitigation stats.

  10. #10
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    Back to the statiscs model presented for the ring and why it's wrong...

    To accurately calculate an average HPS for the ring, you will need to know roughly how many skills it will take to proc the ring on average with a proc chance of 15 seconds. Once the number of skills is known, that needs to be converted into a duration of time, assuming an average skill duration can be found. This will give us the average time to proc.

    By taking that duration, and using it with the cooldown (of 30s) AND the average HPS (which is 990.5) and plugging it into the equation:

    HPS = healing/(cooldown + procTime)
    = 990.5/(30 + ?????)

    You will get an average HPS per target to be expected from the ring when you are spamming healing skills..

    So where did the 33.0167 HPS/target come from? I wanted an upper ceiling, so I set the procTime in the prior calculation to zero, which is completely unrealistic, thus the number. This is an absolute maximum that the ring will produce, but it cannot be reasonably achieved over a long period of time.

    So unless someone wants to step in and show the math for how many skill usages it'd take (on average) to get a proc at 15% rate, I'm stuck because it's been half a decade since I've been in college, I've completely forgotten everything from the stats class, and can't find the text book XD

    What makes this all the more frustrating - I swear I've solved this exact same problem in the class....

    That said, here's an HPS table with proctime increasing in steps of 5 seconds:

    procTime HPS/target
    0 33.0167
    5 28.3000
    10 24.7625
    15 22.0111
    20 19.8100
    25 18.0091
    30 16.5083
    35 15.2385
    40 14.1500
    45 13.2067
    50 12.3813
    55 11.6529
    60 11.0056

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    In my experience - if you are building your captain to be a main-healer - you are going to be somewhat squishy no matter what since you are generally going to lack in avoidance. Probably the most effective way to off-set this would be to wear a shield in my opinion, but that will hurt your offense some. It's those fights with lots of adds that will probably give you the most trouble - because without high avoidance it's almost impossible to survive against swarms of adds bearing down on you, and all that AoE healing we do makes us very tantalizing to the enemy.

    But a good tank helps more than anything else. It's amazing the difference a skilled tank can make. It can literally be the difference in me being barely scratched on a fight and a fight I can't stay alive on no matter what I try. So in short: Nothing beats having a good tank.

    Otherwise, using your hope banner to boost your morale on fights you are having trouble staying alive on can make a difference. Muster Courage helps too. So can boosting your morale, vitality, and mitigation stats.
    Um.... when talking about raid builds, it's generally assumed that it's all about T2 HM strats, so it's assumed that the tank is competent and the captain is not main healing.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 07 2013 at 09:45 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 

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