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  1. #26
    No.
    but, this could be great- at the quest in moria landing when we get our 1st LI we choose one from all kinds of LI aviable for our class (one crossbow, one bow, one dagger, one sword, one axe, one spear etc for hunter, in example) that are all firse age and we can have some way to get 2nd or 1st ages, again, when there are one of every kind of weapon in the game for every age. and we are with that weapon for the rest of the game, when it grows to infinte amount of levels until our lvl cap. and we can choose apperance to place on a new reliv slot- dwarf axe for axe, lothlorien bow for bow, rohirm sword for sword. (that way everyone won't have the exact same weapon appearance)

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameranth View Post
    What we need to fulfill the original promise of LI's that 'level with you' is Item Level Upgrade Scrolls.

    When the level cap is raised each year, players currently have to take their lovingly and time-consumingly built perfect LI and scrap it to start the process all over again. If we could upgrade the level of the LI then players would have a choice of starting over like usual, or we could hunt for a rare drop that would upgrade their LI's actual level by 1. Alternatively, make the scrolls barterable for Seals or the new barter currency for the latest expansion.

    To prevent farming and storage for future need, the scrolls should have a minimum and maximum level. For example, to take an old First Age LI from 60 to 85 would require 10 Item Level Upgrade Scrolls (60-70), 10 Item Level Upgrade Scrolls (70-80), and 5 Item Level Upgrade Scrolls (80-90). Each time the level is increased the DPS would be increased for the new level, and existing stat bonuses would be updated as well with random new ones being added where needed. At the end of the process you'd have the same thing as if you'd made a new 85 FA from a symbol, only all the improvements you'd put into it before would still be there.
    A system very much like this is already in place, by using star-lit crystals. Reducing them to their most basic function, their effect is to increase the item level of a legendary item. (Each star-lit crystal you add to an item currently upgrades it by roughly 2 item levels.)

    Perhaps if the number of star-lit crystals you can add to your item were a function of your character's level, your legendary item really could grow with you for as long as you wanted. For example, every LI could be changed to have a base item level of 50, and players could add 1 star-lit crystal when their character was level 52, up to two crystals at level 54, up to 3 at level 56, up to 4 at level 58, etc.

    The mechanics of LI enhancements that depend on item level would have to change to accommodate this. For example, there would be only one kind of empowerment scroll, delving scroll, and star-lit crystal, instead of separate ones for different item levels.

    For most players, this would reduce the LI grind to simply a grind for more star-lit crystals (or whatever they might be called after this kind of reinvention). I'm not sure if that would make the system too easy for Turbine's preferences.

  3. #28
    Join Date
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    The LI system, like so many other systems in the game, have evolved into store-drive features.

    The reason why it is as tedious, repetitive and nonsensical it is today is so they can sell you Relic Removal Scrolls when you are forced to decon to make room for your new LI at the next level cap. They have deliberately made Empowerment scrolls extremely costly while at the same time nerfing marks/meds/seals just so they can push their sales in the store. Why made the bridle a LI too to give the players yet another grind? Because its one or more items to take up room in your LI slots that you'll either have to deal with only having 6 or else buy more. These examples go on and on.

    Imagine this :

    I am a contractor being paid by the taxpayers to maintain the roads in the city. But here and there I create potholes in the roads and then turn around and sell planks and tires to the drivers as "solutions" to the problems that I have created in the first place. That's the current state of this game boiled down to a nutshell.

    A legendary item that "grows with you" is the running joke of this system.
    Last edited by LadyDena; May 05 2013 at 04:21 AM.
    The only thing worse than a company making bad decisions, is the apologists who cheer it on.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    2,301
    No. Working on perfecting the items only to trash them way too soon has finally got over me. I didn't even bother with L85 items until Tarnished Celebrimbors arrived in Skirmish Camp and on my alts I only do perfectly the essential DPS weapons, leaving class items and alternate role weapons as they are. With Helm's Deep on the Horizon I may give up on working on all non-DPS items at all, so unfun it has become.
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  5. #30
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    No.

    It's an unforgiving grind. I wanted a weapon that would grow with me.

    If a level 85 first age drops now I'll just make a healing book, at least I'll get some use out of it. Any dps weapon now has a short shelf life.

    I suppose turbine have to get money out of end game lifers and this is the perfect way for them. Legendary jewellery next?!
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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    476
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    Here are some things I dislike:
    • I dislike the various tiers of legacies. They don't make the system any more interesting, just grindy.
    • I dislike the sale of enhancements and especially relics in the LOTRO Store. To me, this is basically selling end-game gear. (You're selling an item with stats on it.)
    • I'm heartbroken every time there's a level cap increase and I'm pressured to replace my LIs. I can't think of a simple way around this though that would still keep players interested.
    • I dislike being stuck with the appearance of my LIs. I wish I could extract an "appearance legacy" from another LI of the same class and type and apply it to a new one.
    • I dislike the ever increasing cost of melding relics.
    Overall, I think there's more to like than dislike, so put me down in the "like" column, please.
    I'll borrow that list.

    >Overall the system makes it so that it is grindy
    >Has to be repeated every update, making your previous progression a total waste, illustrated when you disassemble eventually your LI.
    >The system does not feel legendary anymore due to the abundance of LI items.
    >Customization is not really there when you have 'mandatory legacies and relics' which you cannot afford not to equip.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2821700000017ce96/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  7. #32
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    No....confusing, grindy & just a time and money-sink imo
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  8. #33
    Its OK. But need improvements

  9. #34
    I despise the IA system. While I like the overall concept of an item to grow with me and work on over time, the;current implementation really does act as a disincentive for me to play the game at all. This is predominantly due to the recycling of items that you have to put a lot of work into only to have it become obsolete within at most a year at level cap. But even this cycle, while tedious and unrewarding, isn't the worst of it. The worst comes when you're levelling a new character to cap, and this is a situation that is seemingly only going to get worse as the level cap continues to rise.

    This is because it seems to me that as your weapon is going to be destroyed every 5-10 levels there is little point even attempting to work on an item until you reach level cap. What this means is that for the first 50 levels of the system (45-95 come Helms Deep) the majority of the system becomes pointless.

    Why level scrap items to grind legacies when you'll need to do the same again in 5-10 levels and any legacies that you do replace will be at a low tier without sufficient points to make them effective? Better to not replace legacies. Why use prohibitively expensive Scrolls of Empowerment or Delving when you'll need more in a few days of levelling? Better to not upgrade legacy tiers. Why use Star-lit crystals or titles when again, these will become obsolete in a few levels? Better to ignore Crystals and Titles too. Why upgrade to a second or first age item when in just a few short levels an easier to acquire third age will be better? Better to ignore first and second ages. Why work on combining relics and shards when any relic you slot will be obsolete in 5-10 levels and cannot be returned without spending TP? Better to run without relics or only low tier ones.

    And so for the first 50 or so levels of having access to these "legendary" items you are never able to unlock their potential. Instead, you're forced to effectively ignore the majority of the system until cap when you get to enjoy your efforts for at most a year before the cycle begins again. And if you have alts you are expected to repeat what is a horrible enough grind on a main multiple times? I don't know about anyone else but it acts as a huge disincentive for me to level other characters or even to both logging on at all.

    And while many capped players have had time to get used to the system it must be horribly confusing to new players. It's overly complex for what is actually happening, as is the shard system which is also ironically (given the apparent design intention of the system) a massive grind for solo players.

    If I were to improve the system I would make it use the skirmish soldier or mounted trait UI and allow you to unlock new "traits" as you level which you would put points into, effectively removing the require character level from the item. However, given their current efforts and obsession with the store I doubt this will ever happen, so my only other suggestion would be to make crafted or loot versions that can't be improved but would mean that people can avoid the system altogether without excessively gimping their character.

  10. #35
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    Post

    *snork!*
    Sorry, can't keep straight face on that one...
    No. For multiple reasons.

    Graphically: I totally despise that we cannot keep a single weapon where we Actually LOVE the appearance of it, because we got to choose it, (or actually make our own graphics. This game will never give us such tools like Spore, Maya or Adobe Photoshop to accomplish this. So I would settle for a single choice, of all in-game staff models.) Who the heck put a bloody cow head on my staff? *cough, rant, wheeze*

    Low rank legacies: Look, I get the need to put some work into a weapon to get all the right legacies ranked up to T6, but the constant flow of these stupid T1, T2 legs on a Reforge rolls need to go away.

    Replacing legacies: I liked the ability, but when the R6 legacy I pulled off another LI turns into a rotten T2 lowbie leg, it just reeks.

    Another side case that my burglar recently discovered. There are no level 50 LI drops!
    Except for the 2 she gets from the Moria quest. I am XP disabling my burg for SoA content. So she's stuck with those. At least her tools got the +3 stealth, but her dagger came out meh/rotten (and has a legacy for a skill (feign attack) she won't get til later).

    Quote Originally Posted by GB-Esty View Post
    I despise the IA system. While I like the overall concept of an item to grow with me and work on over time, the;current implementation really does act as a disincentive for me to play the game at all. This is predominantly due to the recycling of items that you have to put a lot of work into only to have it become obsolete within at most a year at level cap.
    *trimmed*

    Why level scrap items to grind legacies when you'll need to do the same again in 5-10 levels and any legacies that you do replace will be at a low tier without sufficient points to make them effective? Better to not replace legacies. Why use prohibitively expensive Scrolls of Empowerment or Delving when you'll need more in a few days of levelling? Better to not upgrade legacy tiers. Why use Star-lit crystals or titles when again, these will become obsolete in a few levels? Better to ignore Crystals and Titles too. Why upgrade to a second or first age item when in just a few short levels an easier to acquire third age will be better? Better to ignore first and second ages. Why work on combining relics and shards when any relic you slot will be obsolete in 5-10 levels and cannot be returned without spending TP? Better to run without relics or only low tier ones.

    *trimmed again, even though the whole post had me nodding... yes yes...*
    If I were to improve the system I would make it use the skirmish soldier or mounted trait UI and allow you to unlock new "traits" as you level which you would put points into, effectively removing the require character level from the item. However, given their current efforts and obsession with the store I doubt this will ever happen, so my only other suggestion would be to make crafted or loot versions that can't be improved but would mean that people can avoid the system altogether without excessively gimping their character.
    *drool* Yes, I've heard this suggestion many times and I am really intrigued to know what our LI's would be like if they were traited like a maxxed out soldier. Makes me want to break out the Photoshop and work it out myself. <.<
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  11. #36
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    About the only thing about it that I'd really like to see is fewer levels at which a new one becomes available. I don't mind having to grind out a new one every expansion or so, but if there wasn't an option for one between 75 and 85, that'd reduce the sense that I ought to be grinding out a new one in between. Actually a better example is back in the 60s, where a few of my friends are, and they keep being unclear when they should start a new one.

    A few other minor tweaks might be good. More ways to get those items from repeatables used to make the crafted relics, for instance; at some levels, the only quest you can get is agonizingly tedious. Combine All button in the Relic Combination dialog, for sure. Some clarification, when looking at things like relics and scrolls, when they talk about a minimum level to use it, whether they mean the item's minimum level to wield or the item's own level, would save a lot of frustration. Stuff like that.

    I would certainly prefer if the items really did level with you the way we were promised, of course. But I know Turbine needs us to turn them over to keep having things to buy, so that's not going to happen. Within that constraint, what we have is pretty good.

  12. #37
    turbine, can you see the comments here?
    it's perfectly obvious that making the weapon realy grow with you is something that make peopke happy. maby you'll change it at update 11?

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Fipiara View Post
    I'd pretty much agree with this on the like side.

    As for my dislike:
    • I dislike doing nearly the whole thing over again (resulting in the exact same LI, just at the next level cap)
    • I dislike doing nearly the whole thing over again (resulting in the exact same LI, just at the next level cap)
    • I dislike doing nearly the whole thing over again (resulting in the exact same LI, just at the next level cap)
    • I dislike doing nearly the whole thing over again (resulting in the exact same LI, just at the next level cap)
    • ...
    This is my biggest peeve. It would be so much better if the weapon could really grow with us, giving us the option to tweak it at each new level cap, rather than trashing it and starting over.

    The idea of legendary items is pretty cool as far as I'm concerned, other than having to redo the whole thing over and over again. It's even more of a pain when you have a ton of level capped alts.

  14. #39
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    I like the LI system

    There's a few things that could be improved, like the ability to have cosmetic weapons, but overall it's a good system that let's you continue to make improvements at lvlcap
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  15. #40
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    South Tyrol, sadly in Italy
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    Not happy at all
    There's way too much randomness and grinding involved.

    1. Aquiring a symbol to craft the weapon - random or a endless grind.
    2. identifying the head stats - random
    3. reforing at level 10 - random, low chance to get a main attribute
    4. reforing at level 20 - random, low chance to get a main attribute
    5. reforing at level 30 - random, low chance to get a main attribute

    "Additional targets" legacies eat too many points, but that's not the big deal.
    The dps are maxed automatically for casters, those who need dps have to invest points - that's rather unfair.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Graycient View Post
    Not happy with it? Explain what you think is missing or should be changed, etc.
    Not happy with it, it's a pathetic excuse for a time sink/content.

    · Scrolls of Remembrance & Star-lit crystals should be removed from the game.
    · Every LI should have 7 legacies when identified.
    · Crafted LIs should have multiple-output options like jewellery, reducing/removing the stupid base stat lottery.
    · Relics should be removable upon reforge & max level decon.
    · There should be no difference between legacies, in terms of being minor or major, just literally make them a legacy.
    · Shard costs for specific relics should be reduced.
    · I would like to see our LIs level/grow with us & i hate regrinding again when i get a SA or FA.
    A suggestion to stop this would be to have only third age items in the game, then add a new crystal that upgrades the item to a second age, obtainable via instances as a CM reward/barter item with current rep faction.
    Then another crystal that upgrades a second age to a first age, obtainable via t2 CM raids/rep faction.
    Obviously these crystals would increase the potency of our LIs & give us more points, drastically reducing the grind in the process.
    Last edited by Neen_Eldar; May 08 2013 at 06:02 AM.
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  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Neen_Eldar View Post
    Not happy with it, it's a pathetic excuse for a time sink/content.

    · Scrolls of Remembrance & Star-lit crystals should be removed from the game.
    · Every LI should have 7 legacies when identified.
    · Crafted LIs should have multiple-output options like jewellery, reducing/removing the stupid base stat lottery.
    · Relics should be removable upon reforge & max level decon.
    · There should be no difference between legacies, in terms of being minor of major, just literally make them a legacy.
    · Shard costs for specific relics should be reduced.
    · I would like to see our LIs level/grow with us & i hate regrinding again when i get a SA or FA.
    A suggestion to stop this would be to have only third age items in the game, then add a new crystal that upgrades the item to a second age, obtainable via instances as a CM reward/barter item with current rep faction.
    Then another crystal that upgrades a second age to a first age, obtainable via t2 CM raids/rep faction.
    Obviously these crystals would increase the potency of our LIs & give us more points, drastically reducing the grind in the process.
    this. just this. please, turbine, listen to him.

  18. #43
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    It's just work. It's not fun. No, I don't like the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by BackAgainAndThere View Post
    I wish when you deconned an LI you could have the option to choose to extract an empowerment scroll instead of a legacy because once you have your LI legacies set up, there's no point in getting any more legacies and this would help with the tier upgrade grind a little bit.
    Great idea, perhaps put in the Suggestions forum?

    The system is way too complex/confusing to players, many just simply stop leveling and start new alts when their characters have played everything up to Moria/legendary item stage.

    It's cumbersome, they don't need 10 tiers of relics. A tier for level 50s, then the tier that melds together for level 60 relics, 65s, 75s, 85s, 95s. That's six total tiers come next expansion instead of a dozen. Eliminate all the refining, just have a refine all button. You know a system is bad when a purchased boost isn't instantly applied but has a duration!

    Eliminate all the fake random. It's not random at all when folks make dozens to use the one with proper result, it's just time consuming busy work that penalizes those who play less frequently.

    Let folks pick legacies from a list. If you want them to earn them, have something fun, like playing the game, be the way to do it. (And by playing the game I don't mean you need thousands of skirmish marks to get each Empowerment and each skirm only gives you a handful and you need dozens of Empowerments depending purely on luck.)

    I have friends who are nearing level 60 after playing two and a half years. We've done all the epics, quested most areas, have decent virtues, and they can't afford ONE Lesser Scroll of Empowerment.

    Melding was a good addition, it could be streamlined with combining. Instead of melding requiring X number of X tier relics that had to be combined. Just have it require 1,000 tier one relics. Eliminate the relic shard currency entirely, it's redundant to the relic currency that already exists, we just exchange relic currency for relic shard currency. Shift the money sink element over.

    Ideally, none of it would work how it does. You'd get an item, in a form you like (sword/mace/axe/whatever), you'd pick legacies for it, you'd obtain/apply resources to it (legacy strength, relics), if you got a SA or FA symbol, you'd forge that into the existing item. Level cap raises would provide new symbols to forge your item into a new level. Time would be spent playing, instead of clicking.
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  19. #44
    god no. I abhor the fact that legendaries are tossed out after a few levels. I want them legendary! for life, with the ability to mod them and make them shine. Im no more attached to my legendaries now then I am to a cheeseburger.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,495
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neen_Eldar View Post
    Not happy with it, it's a pathetic excuse for a time sink/content.

    · Scrolls of Remembrance & Star-lit crystals should be removed from the game.
    · Every LI should have 7 legacies when identified.
    · Crafted LIs should have multiple-output options like jewellery, reducing/removing the stupid base stat lottery.
    · Relics should be removable upon reforge & max level decon.
    · There should be no difference between legacies, in terms of being minor of major, just literally make them a legacy.
    · Shard costs for specific relics should be reduced.
    · I would like to see our LIs level/grow with us & i hate regrinding again when i get a SA or FA.
    A suggestion to stop this would be to have only third age items in the game, then add a new crystal that upgrades the item to a second age, obtainable via instances as a CM reward/barter item with current rep faction.
    Then another crystal that upgrades a second age to a first age, obtainable via t2 CM raids/rep faction.
    Obviously these crystals would increase the potency of our LIs & give us more points, drastically reducing the grind in the process.
    ^^This sums up everything nicely.

  21. #46
    Not happy!

    It's a heavy grind, nothing more. I don't bother with it any more, I am playing with crafted or drop not legendary weapons and I am doing just fine.

    Those weapons are so "legendary".. I get like 10 in 30 minutes...

  22. #47
    I think the present execution of the LI system is awful, nothing but a huge, pointless grind of constantly destroying items that are supposed to be legendary. They do not grow with you at all. They are constantly made obsolete and have to be replaced. It is one of the things that is turning me off more and more.

    The custom armor/weapon system in Star Wars The Old Republic comes much closer to producing items that actually grow with you and it is far simpler and easier to understand. A lot of things wrong with SWTOR but that is one thing that I do like about it. That and their companion AI system makes the skirm soldier and even the cappy retainer AI look pathetic.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rothan117 View Post
    *snipped*

    The custom armor/weapon system in Star Wars The Old Republic comes much closer to producing items that actually grow with you and it is far simpler and easier to understand.
    This. Have the LI be a shell that you slot the legacies, symbols and relics in to. The SWTOR system is not perfect but at least you get to choose a skin you like and as Rothan pointed out it does feel like the weapon is growing with you to some extent.

    As to the LI system in general. I'm not thrilled with it but it's pretty easy to grind it if you do some instances and have crafters making relics. I am kinda pissed though a few days after spending thousands of Medallions and 10s of thousands of marks on Ridder scrolls that the reset, sorry expansion, was announced lol.

    Some great suggestions in this thread which will be ignored because of probable Store implications.

    If we are going to keep this white elephant then could we at least have a UI that doesn't make one want to log off please?

    Seriously, I have enough gold, IXP, relics, and shard potential to put fancy relics in to my RKs healing and DPS LIs. I'm just not prepared to spend hours wearing out a mouse button, getting RSI (and annoying my wife) doing it.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Radbug; May 05 2013 at 09:57 PM.

  24. #49
    i won't argue i hate it but it don't matter cause they like how it is cause lazy people pay a fortunate in the LOTRO store to max out the weapons and other LIs they have

  25. #50
    I think that they should allow a way for us to keep our same LIs but upgrade them as new lv caps come out, maybe a new type of Crystal to unlock the weapon to new +10 Lvs. (say current LIs are lv85, new expansion use a crystal to unlock it to lv95)

    Unlocking a new Tier cap for your LI will result in loss of Star-Lit Crystals used on the old LI lv.

    these Crystals or such could be acquired as Symbols, get them from Raids and Skirmish Raids as such.

    with that addition we could keep our beloved LIs we always work hard to make perfect every expansion.

    but yes I do like our current LI system, could things use work? of course.

 

 
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