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  1. #76
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    It is a good idea NOT to stick with one weapon all of your (game) life.
    What's the point to have same weapon (armor, spell, cookie, potion, belt and helm) the whole game?

    I don't really need legendary weapon that would be the best weapon in the game by the end of the game. I need a good weapon that can carry me on through the game.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    It is a good idea NOT to stick with one weapon all of your (game) life.
    What's the point to have same weapon (armor, spell, cookie, potion, belt and helm) the whole game?

    I don't really need legendary weapon that would be the best weapon in the game by the end of the game. I need a good weapon that can carry me on through the game.
    Its in the books Bilbo had his sword all his adventure, Gandalf used Glamdrig from one point and never stop using it.

    Legendary or from Legend means you have something you wouldn't discard.

  3. #78
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    Mar 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Its in the books Bilbo had his sword all his adventure, Gandalf used Glamdrig from one point and never stop using it.

    Legendary or from Legend means you have something you wouldn't discard.
    Yes. But let's think about it from completely different point of view.
    What is the point of the game? Where all the fun comes from?

    A lot of fun somes from the exploration. I guess most of us want to see something new around the corner that we've never seen before. Like new regions, like new enemies, like new spells, like new weapons and like new armor that we can buy, forge, empower, steal (?), win, take from enemy, etc...
    Now let's imagine that we have the weapon that we don't want to change because it is just the best weapon that we can get and we only need to empower it using different methods of empowering (forging, scrolls, experience, etc...).

    What do we have in the end? For a primary weapon we LOOSE possibility to buy, take it from enemy, find it around the corner, win it or steal it, although we still have possibility to empower it. Most importantly, the thrill is gone. You know from the beginning that your weapon is the best, that you don't have to look high and low for the better weapon. That is something that I don't want. I want to be surprised.
    Last edited by evguenil; Jun 13 2013 at 05:21 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    Yes. But let's think about it from completely different point of view.
    What is the point of the game? Where all the fun comes from?

    A lot of fun somes from the exploration. I guess most of us want to see something new around the corner that we've never seen before. Like new regions, like new enemies, like new spells, like new weapons and like new armor that we can buy, forge, empower, steal (?), win, take from enemy, etc...
    Now let's imagine that we have the weapon that we don't want to change because it is just the best weapon that we can get and we only need to empower it using different methods of empowering (forging, scrolls, experience, etc...).

    What do we have in the end? For a primary weapon we LOOSE possibility to buy, take it from enemy, find it around the corner, win it or steal it, although we still have possibility to empower it. Most importantly, the thrill is gone. You know from the beginning that your weapon is the best, that you don't have to look high and low for the better weapon. That is something that I don't want. I want to be surprised.
    For in-game perspective a LI that grows with you doesn't mean its the ultimate weapon

    the LI would would still need to empower it, get relics, get XP, etc, the only thing that changes is that you don't swift from weapon to a new weapon, its the weapon you started with but you can customize it look so it still looks like a new weapon.

    The thrill would still be there as its always growing with you, you would need to explore, kill orcs, find things around the corner JUST NO MORE NEW LI'S.

    Don't you hate to see lots of LI's in your loot bag you can't even use or are just there to be deconstructed?

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    [...]That is something that I don't want. I want to be surprised.
    Not two weeks ago you said you hadn't even used a legendary item yet.

    Let me tell you now, once you re-did the basically same weapon for the tenth time, each time on a new level and differing age, the LAST thing you want is to be surprised.

    SNy
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  6. #81
    Ugh.
    THINGS I LIKE:
    I like being able to get an additional layer of customization to my character.

    THINGS I DISLIKE:
    scrap-and-replace. Even in the Epic Quest chain Volume 2, our dwarf-buddy was astounded that we'd scrapped that lovely LI he'd given us that let us beat back the watcher to gain entrance to Moria. Did Glamdring get ditched? did Sting get replaced? How about Orcrist? LIs exist in the books, but they are truly wonderful things. Narsil was a weapon of the first age that was reforged... we have that element in the game. But Legendary items are LEGENDARY. Narsil's shards were preserved for over 3,000 years before they were reforged into Anduril. They were kept with reverence, waiting for the day that King should return. They were NOT thrown away! Scraping them like so much goblin-trash cheapens the entire concept of a Legendary Item.

    Scrap-and-replace, also serves as a dis-incentive to deal with LIs at all as you're leveling. This problem gets WORSE as max-level increases. You get an LI at 50ish and throw it away at 60. Build that one up, throw it away at 65? and again at 75? all the while churning through lesser LIs to get the right legacies to support your play style or buildout? Nah. You outlevel it too fast, so why bother at all?

    I have this BEAUTIFUL Filikul Firstager that I'm still using at level 80. It has exactly the legacies I want. Over time I upgraded them to useful tiers. As a mini I'm not terribly concerned with DPS. It sucks that I miss out on the increased potency of the legacies from higher level LIs. But I still use it. Why? Because the 65s and 75 secondagers didn't have the legacies I wanted and wasting shards and TP to make them useful when I'd only throw it away at 85 all over again was exactly that Waste.

    But to fix it i think is relatively simple. Ok, your LI is now max level, but why not make it UPGRADEABLE TO THE NEXT TIER? make it a crafting recipe that requires max rep with that tier of the guild, BOA -- just like the crafted guild symbols. Make the recipe require the symbol of the elder king, just like crafting a new one in the first place. But give us a way to make the work we put into our weapon worth while. Keep the customization. Keep the lesser third-age trash that serve as a source of useful legacies. Keep the relics, the shards... These mechanics work well enough. But let the LIs grow with us!


    Another thing that is TERRIBLE about the current system is relic-melding.
    Turn in 135 Kuzdul tablets into tier 1 relics. you end up with approximately 200 of every tier-1 relic. now meld them into tier2. click, return, click, return, click, return.... SLOW DOWN TOO MANY REQUESTS, SIT AND DO NOTHING FOR 10 seconds. Whew. now I only have 195 of each one. click return, click, return, click return... WHAT A MEANINGLESS CONCEPT.

    Solution: Well, when I go to a vendor I can say "buy a stack. Buy a half-a-stack. Buy a single item." Why not... "meld all worthless tier-1 relics into not-quite-as-worthless tier-2 relics" Single button. Let it roll 5,000,000 times on the back end for the results, but do we really need to click through it all? In crafting you can select any number of 1-max, assuming your tools last that long. Why not do the same here? This is a time-suck that serves NO purpose, is NOT fun, and worse, the existing game mechanic FORCES you to take longer.

    And since the LI system incorporates so much wasted time and effort, I haven't bothered to try to do multiple LIs to support different play styles. I'm a short hop away from 85 now. I'll probably work in a buff-book and actually maintain 3 LIs. I'm not bothering with the bridle because... eh. It's not necessary. You can kill stuff without it. There're no mounted instances, so the grind on that is just too tedious and meaningless.
    Last edited by c-daMaph; Jun 13 2013 at 09:17 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #82
    Join Date
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    I stopped playing my freeps because I loath the meaningless LI grind.

    My main was a captain, and I'd finally gotten 7 weapons I was largely happy with pre-RoR release, and I couldn't bear the idea of redoing all of them plus adding more horse-related LIs.

    I'm really happy playing my creeps, although disappointed to hear from Sapience (in a previous post) how little Turbine apparently cares about PvMP creep-only players (based on our being a small percentage of players).

    If not for the LI grind, I'd still be playing my captain, and she'd be in the Moors where I'd want to fight organised, dedicated and skillful creeps - without them, I'd have left the game as the constant dumbing down of PvE content made open-landscape freeping far too easy.
    Vulfen cpt 100

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNy-lotrolinux-EU View Post
    Not two weeks ago you said you hadn't even used a legendary item yet.

    Let me tell you now, once you re-did the basically same weapon for the tenth time, each time on a new level and differing age, the LAST thing you want is to be surprised.

    SNy
    I have got my first ledendary items several days ago. I don't have much experience with the LI system yet.

    What I am trying to discuss is the following topic: is it better to stick to one weapon lifetime or is it better to have a possibility to find a better weapon somewhere along the way? I vote for the second option. I should be able to find better weapon as my character progress in levels. I don't want to have a weapon that is going to be improved semi-automatically like my character's morale, power or strength.
    Last edited by evguenil; Jun 14 2013 at 06:49 AM.

  9. #84
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    144
    By the way, since I've just discovered LI system I should say something about it I guess

    I find it very interesting, compicated and so far I'm happy with it. I can already see that this system will defenitely keep me quite busy, but I'm not afraid of it

    I know for sure that I get the fun when I'm trying to get to the top and not when I'm at the top. I mean, please don't bring me to the highest level, please do not give me the most power weapon or spell. As soon as I get it, that would be the "end of the game". PvP can't keep me long enough in game. It is fun of course, but pure PvP is just not RPG and it is not my type of game. I need exploration and I need character/weapon/armor/etc contant development. Any obstacle that would delay reaching end of the game is welcome! And LI constant reforging I guess will be one of such obstacles and that's quite alright in my opinion . I use "experience disabler" just the same

    A lot of people provide their opinion about LI based on the "their great 2-year LOTRO play-time". Of course they are bored to tears with everything in the game. I see few messages from players like me who just discovered LI system. I think that developers should know that there are people out there who are happy with current LI system. Perhaps after half-year my opinion will be different, but usually I don't play any game that long.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post

    A lot of people provide their opinion about LI based on the "their great 2-year LOTRO play-time". Of course they are bored to tears with everything in the game. I see few messages from players like me who just discovered LI system. I think that developers should know that there are people out there who are happy with current LI system. Perhaps after half-year my opinion will be different, but usually I don't play any game that long.
    Like you, I was excited when I first discovered LIs, and first discovered that I could customize it. But when I outgrew it and found I had to DESTROY what I build and START OVER again, I was upset. wash, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat, and repeat. Reading through the thread there seems to be many people with the same feeling.

    But I want to highlight your perspective that you "perhaps after half-year [your] opinion will be different, but usually [you] don't play any game that long." --- if that's the case, you don't need to worry one way or the other. You don't need to worry about destroying what you spent time on, because you're going to move on. And yes, you get the best of the LI system then -- the exploration of some new way to customize your character. And you don't feel the pain of a poorly designed system because you miss the repetitive grind to rebuild what you'd already built.

  11. #86

  12. #87
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    I vote no. Others have explained it better than I could. It's way too grindy, way too tedious, and to know you're going to decon it anyway in 10 levels or less makes all the work feel like a waste.

    Legendary Items is the reason I've stopped alting as much. In Moria I had 5 raid-ready characters. In Mirkwood, I had 4 raid-ready characters. In Isengard I only got 3 characters geared out. Now in Rohan, I have only 2 characters at end-game, and I have not maxxed out their LIs or other gear. It's just too much work that feels wasted when you throw your LI away after 10 levels.

    I spend less time in game now that I have fewer characters. But the thought of doing multiple LIs for all my characters every 10 levels is too daunting for me to bring more alts up.
    Last edited by Frieja; Jun 17 2013 at 05:43 PM.
    MINSTREL and member of the vocal minority

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    Yes.

    Few minor tweaks could be nice, but over all, I like it.
    This, yep.
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  14. #89
    I like the idea of legacies to custom further your play style.

    But legendary weapons don't feel legendary at all, because :

    1) From Moria on, we find billions of them, in fact much more than normal weapons !
    2) We must throw the one we use every few levels...
    3) Most of the legendary weapons look ridiculous and ambiance-breaking, especially compared to the more realistic weapons we can get earlier in the game, so yes we greatly need cosmetic slots for weapons and shields. And please don't force these childish glowing effects on us !

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameranth View Post
    What we need to fulfill the original promise of LI's that 'level with you' is Item Level Upgrade Scrolls.

    When the level cap is raised each year, players currently have to take their lovingly and time-consumingly built perfect LI and scrap it to start the process all over again. If we could upgrade the level of the LI then players would have a choice of starting over like usual, or we could hunt for a rare drop that would upgrade their LI's actual level by 1. Alternatively, make the scrolls barterable for Seals or the new barter currency for the latest expansion.

    To prevent farming and storage for future need, the scrolls should have a minimum and maximum level. For example, to take an old First Age LI from 60 to 85 would require 10 Item Level Upgrade Scrolls (60-70), 10 Item Level Upgrade Scrolls (70-80), and 5 Item Level Upgrade Scrolls (80-90). Each time the level is increased the DPS would be increased for the new level, and existing stat bonuses would be updated as well with random new ones being added where needed. At the end of the process you'd have the same thing as if you'd made a new 85 FA from a symbol, only all the improvements you'd put into it before would still be there.
    Despite all my annoyances at what LIs have become, if this were to be true, I would forgive everything else about LIs and happily settle down with the weapons that mean something to me. "Legendary" should not mean I pick up 20 as random world drops and scrap them all when I get home. My weapon should be _at least_ as unique and valuable (to me) as my war steed.
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  16. #91
    Well, no. I guess I more dislike it than like it.
    It's a very simple and expensive system.
    It's the definition of "grind", to get a decent weapon.
    And well, it's just a boring system.

    I said it somewhere else, and i'll go ahead and say it here.
    I wish the legendary item system were more like the warsteed system.
    A single, permanent weapon (and class item) that you can customize
    the name, and look of (through the turbine store, hell yeah i'd pay for
    a GOOD looking spear). Something that levels up with you.
    The constant "from scratch" business is tiresome.

    I'm not even saying this method wouldn't be just as grindy as our current
    system. But it'd feel more personal. It'd feel more satisfying, you could
    be more attached to your legendary items because they'd stay with
    you throughout the levels.

    Now my idea for how the legacies would work, how they'd level with you
    would be similar to the barter-gear system we have at skirmish camps.
    If you wanted a legacy to go from level 75 to 80, you'd need
    to have the level 75 legacy, plus the right combination of (example)-sunbrands,
    wyrmfires, or whatever type of unique barter item they come up with, plus
    the appropriate amount of shards. I imagine it'd require an all new NPC
    to stand next to the Forge master and Relic master. Maybe called the...
    "Legacy master"?

    The only hitch with this is that it sounds like you'd only need to fool
    with it for "ratings" legacies. (because as we all know, the higher the level
    your weapon is, the higher the ratings get)
    But, to get around that, I think it'd
    be interesting if the, say, "+10 seconds to xxxx" legacies would
    tier down the more you leveled over their current level.
    For example, if you had that +10sec legacy, and it was set
    as level 75, and you were 85. It would scale down to
    +1sec until you upgraded it to level 80. Then, it's max number
    would be +5sec. And if you upgraded it to your current level of 85,
    it would again be +10sec. Anyone else understand what i'm
    getting at here?

    The thing with this system is, though, that you'd need to do alot more
    instances to get those unique barter-items to upgrade your legacies.
    Or, pay alot in the auction house. Also, i'm not sure what this would
    mean for Star-Lit Crystals. Perhaps, once you/your weapon leveled up,
    they'd simple vanish off your legendaries. Kind of like how, once you
    out-level those +25% experience boosting pocket items, they simply
    stop working. Well, same for the Star-Lit Crystals, if you want their
    benefits after you out-leveled their requirements, you'd need to
    take them off your weapon and personally slot/bind the new level's
    version. I wouldn't mind if star-lit crystals, in this system, worked like
    relics currently do.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000046ddaa/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Taogan View Post
    I like the idea of legacies to custom further your play style.

    But legendary weapons don't feel legendary at all, because :

    1) From Moria on, we find billions of them, in fact much more than normal weapons !
    2) We must throw the one we use every few levels...
    3) Most of the legendary weapons look ridiculous and ambiance-breaking, especially compared to the more realistic weapons we can get earlier in the game, so yes we greatly need cosmetic slots for weapons and shields. And please don't force these childish glowing effects on us !
    First person i've seen who's commented on the Legendary Item glow.
    I would give anything for an ability to disable that... It's so unnecessary and immersion-breaking.
    And also agreed on how bland the look of weapons gets the later you get in-game.
    There's so many shields and weapons that look so amazing for low-levels. Makes me mad.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000046ddaa/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    1,120
    Hope devs revamp the LI system allowing more customization along with it

  19. #94
    I like it, although some minor tweeks (read appearance listed my many folks above) would be nice.

  20. #95
    The LI system is better than it was originally, but its still a millstone round your neck.

    Having to scrap then at each level cap increase & start again.
    The constant micromanagement.
    No appearance options.
    The storage space you need for all the gubbins associated with them.
    Being considered "second class" by other players if you don't have the current Age weapon or the right legacies.

    The Skirmish Soldier system or Warsteed configuration systems are much better.
    Hunter & alts on Snowborne since 2007, now on Evernight.

  21. #96
    I'm now doing LI's to suit me (though I did burn some TP's a couple of days ago to extract prior to deconstruction, just to see, and I won't bother with that again). My crafters can make SA (not bothering with FA), but I'm now going to stick with TA unless something falls in my lap (after having made some SA - may do a few level 85's if the stuff is just lying around). T6 relics work fine, and crafters can make crafted. I don't muck about with diminishing returns (and going beyond T6 is worth the effort just how exactly? is a few extra of this and that REALLY going to make your character playable instead of unplayable? - that said, I had vast amounts of T4's and 5's, so I ran some up to T7, not scrapped them yet but thought I'd compare). I can get a TA LI for shards or I can make them. TA are cheap and easy, and do the job.

    My biggest bone of contention is IXP.

    If I turn in dailies that say 18,000+ IXP, why are my items only getting 4,000+ IXP?

    That really sucks.

    I can live with the rest of it, because I don't make a rod for my own back and do the stuff that's fun or occupies a quiet half hour instead.

    eta: I did burn some TP's getting extra levels for a non-weapon SA, as what's on it is about what I want right now and I haven't leveled anything better up - I have all the LI slots unlocked on one character, and that was a good investment.
    Last edited by WychHazel; Jul 03 2013 at 07:28 AM.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Akotah View Post
    First person i've seen who's commented on the Legendary Item glow.
    I would give anything for an ability to disable that... It's so unnecessary and immersion-breaking.
    And also agreed on how bland the look of weapons gets the later you get in-game.
    There's so many shields and weapons that look so amazing for low-levels. Makes me mad.
    I agree that the looks of weapons and, to some degree, other gear, looks rather bland at later levels.

    I'd rather like to be able to customise ie. the weapons.

    One thing though. Elven swords and blades DID glow in the lord of the rings books. We accept so much other magic that it would be kinda weird if numenorean or dwarvish blades didn't have some magic too.

    Wouldn't mind an option to turn the glow off for those who so desire though.

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Akotah View Post
    First person i've seen who's commented on the Legendary Item glow.
    I would give anything for an ability to disable that... It's so unnecessary and immersion-breaking.
    And also agreed on how bland the look of weapons gets the later you get in-game.
    There's so many shields and weapons that look so amazing for low-levels. Makes me mad.
    The stupid WOWish glow from legendary weapons has been complained about since Moria launched. I don't know it if its about who coded it or why its there, but the original glow from +XX damage to <insert name> was awesome. It should carry over to legendaries, and the legacies and relics should only be determined by play style, rather than run 50 skirmishes and crafting instances to rank, reforge, respect, add to your weapon.

    personally we should still have the legendary weapons awarded to us in Eregion, unfortunately it doesn't put money in the store.....

  24. #99
    I have to ask just what is this 'grind' associated with LI's that people go on about?

    I find it an interesting 'side game' that is hardly time intensive unless you want it to be. But then I do like crafting.

    I cashed in a few tablets and tool kits yesterday, and now have over 30,000 shards on my level 73 character. I am awash with T6 relics, have a fair few T7's, and even a few T8's (just to see, I won't be bothering with diminishing returns, and will probably use them on an item at level cap). I also had a lot of LIXP items in the process. I also have 4 of the 938,000 IXP items in my vault ready to use, and a fair few lesser ones. I had more yesterday but burned two to get a level 65 weapon and a level 66 weapon to see what level the salvage scrolls came out at, but guess what? I had a LIXP item off each of them.

    I burned those two and took two LI's I was levelling up, to almost level 60 (both had acquired XP from dailies prior). One just hit level 60 with todays dailies. I had the scrolls I wanted for my next weapon already in the vault, so used them on the replacement this morning, and with the LIXP item I got off the one I scrapped, it is already level 38, and it will be level 40 this time tomorrow. I'd had a freebie salvage scroll on the daily silver roll, so I used it to get the runes off before salvage (not that I was worried, as I said, I have plenty of T6's which work more than well enough).

    I have all the LI slots unlocked, and whatever I am doing, all of them are filled and all of them acquire XP.

    At 85, if I burn two of the 938,000 LIXP items on new class and weapon LI's, both of them will be at a more than satisfactory level immediately. I'll already have all the scrolls I want in case I get a bad roll on the legacies. In fact I already have the pre-requisites for them.

    Sounds to me like a lot of you are doing nothing but whining in your own self interests, are all too keen to make rods for your own backs (or worse, pretending to be making them), and want Turbine to resolve 'issues' that are rather fictional and are more to do with benefitting you personally rather than the game in general and other players.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by WychHazel View Post
    I have to ask just what is this 'grind' associated with LI's that people go on about?
    [...]
    OK, so you haven't actually bothered to read the thread and instead chosen to entertain us with your cute little anecdote of your first adventure into the LI system.
    Great.

    Now, since you were asking, I'll try to reiterate what people laid down to be their biggest problem:

    Image you had been playing at each respective level cap of:
    • Moria, 60 (landscape; Moria cluster instances; raids Watcher, DN, [Turtle])
    • Mirkwood and Enedwaith, 65 (landscape; instances + skirmishes + BG cluster and raid + ITA instances; OD raid)
    • Dunland/Isengard, 75 (landscape; instances + skirmishes + Draigoch + ToO instances; ToO raid)
    • Rohan, 85 (landscape; instances + skaled BG + skirmishes; Erebor raids)


    Then you would probably have used the following LIs, acquired via the different activities outlined above:
    • 60: 3rd age; then 2nd age; then 1st age.
    • 65: 3rd age; then 2nd age; then 1st age.
    • 75: 3rd age; then 2nd age; then 1st age.
    • 85: 3rd age; then 2nd age; then 1st age.


    Now, there you have 12 items that you would have actually used (and therefore customized, outfitted with relics and what-have-you), and that is just for one slot.
    Not all classes need to update each slot on each toon (I sure don't, stopped THAT long ago), but let's just say that you do make half of the updates for the class slots, so we make that 18 items per toon.

    Now, the problem, in a nutshell, is this:
    There would have been little to no difference to the items, except their level and age.
    You would have been thrashing those outdated items, only to rebuild them in the - mostly - very same way, for the next level/age.

    Quote Originally Posted by WychHazel View Post
    Sounds to me like a lot of you are doing nothing but whining in your own self interests
    Yeah, well. Maybe you should have tried reading what others said and worked with the system a bit before coming out and making such a, uh, wonderful comment?

    SNy
    LotRO on Linux! http://SNy.name/LOTRO/
    Also home to the LI progression diagram.
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