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Thread: key mapping

  1. #1
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    key mapping

    I am trying to remap the keys to avoid some carpel tunnel issues but when I call it up in options there are a lot of unknown keys. I have one of those elegant little keyboards that don't have a keypad so many of the camera's controls show numbers I can't access and unknown. I have tried pressing or changing but get many "that key is in use do you want to override?" I don't until I know what it controls now and many of those controls have no action that I can see.there are letters I thought free on the keyboard but I can't use them because they are in use. I don't want to set up issues down the road by making changes of convenience now. So, my question is, is there a map that shows what keys the mac is using for each action?

  2. #2
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    I think a keymap came with my boxed MoM but by this point it's relatively out of date.



    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Commands may also help.

    If both of those fail and you can't find what a certain key combination is mapped to, you could always just ask about that specific key combination in the forums.
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  3. #3
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    It isn't under keymapping in the options in the Mac client like the Windows one?

    Eh, guess not or you wouldn't have asked lol

  4. #4
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    Key mapping

    It is under options but many of the keys just say unknown and there is no hint about second keys except in the quickslots section. I stood in a hidden spot in Celondim pressing keys to see what happened and frequently nothing did. That could mean that I'm not in a situation where that command works but if I don't know what it is, I never will be. I did finally find the hidden manual which is how I found out that the numbers on the keyboard are not the same as anything on a keypad which I don't have.

    Thanks for the keyboard layout. I will see how well it corresponds to what I already know. My eventual goal is to map the more common commands to an Xbox controller which I find much more comfortable to use. I don't play LOTRO as much because of the sundry command and comfort issues so it hasn't hooked me but I do hope to remedy at least some of the issues. I had none of these problems playing Diablo III last summer so I expect a lot of this is just how long it lived in the pc universe. I do want the issues solved though because I know I want to try Elder Scrolls Online when it comes out.

  5. #5
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    Thanks, this may help

    The keyboard layout may help afterall. It does show keys that are not assigned and I may be able to use the option key to add some other actions since the windows keyboard doesn't have one. I don't have a numbers lock and have no idea what an insert key is. Thanks, this gives me a finger hold into the problem.

    Edit: I found out what an insert key is in mac. It is the help key. Ain't WIKI wonderful?
    Last edited by Moonscythe; May 03 2013 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Additional thought

  6. #6
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    Several points:
    1- Keyboard mapping does not work correctly (or consistently) with the Mac Client.

    ... Virtually none of the "undefineds" -- are actually undefined. (I think there are one or two which in fact do not work.)

    2- The Mines of Moria Keyboard Map is still the "basic default." Most of the "undefined" keys work as "defined" on that map.

    3- Yes, keymapping in the Mac Client is under Options. And it behaves, more or less, like the Windows version.

    4- In the Mac Client, Some key-map changes stick and some do not.

    5- The actual keymap file is located: ~/Library/Application Suport/com.turbine.lotroclient/lotro.keymap
    It is a plain-text file and can be edited. (I've never understood how it works, but some people do.)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    Edit: I found out what an insert key is in mac. It is the help key. Ain't WIKI wonderful?
    Note that one issue with Mac Keyboards is -- WHICH keyboard. Just as with a PC, you can use a variety of different keyboards on the Mac, and they all behave differently, and depend, in part, on how you have them defined to OSX.

    I happen to use a Logitech "flat-top" (102 Keys including a numeric keypad, USB) -- I have no "help" key, but do have an "insert" key -- but it doesn't toggle "walk mode."

    Sadly, with OSX you have no option to change or otherwise modify your Keyboard Driver. The "keyboard identification" mechanism does identify the basic ANSI key functions, but not any key changes made by the manufacturer.
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    I have a beautiful, elegant, little wireless keyboard that doesn't have a number pad, nor does it have a help key. I was aware that the unknown keys were nevertheless assigned which was part of my problem. I have been going over the wiki control list and the keyboard map on this thread to see what I can do. I need to get the camera remapped to the keyboard since I don't have a number pad. At that point I may be able to coerce the game into believing I'm using a keyboard when I'm really using an xbox controller.

    I learned how to use a computer on mainframe terminals but was never happy on an IBM PC. I took to the mac like a duck to water and have never understood the DOS love of keyboard commands. I'm a mouse girl from the beginning. I saw the first macs demonstrated when it was called LISA and I thought the mouse was the coolest thing ever.

    Thanks for the help, everyone. I'll be back if anything else comes up.

  9. #9
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    Smile I'm back

    Has anyone actually tried to re-map their Mac keyboard? On the wireless keyboard I have found that the F keys do not work at all even if I press FN. I have not tried turning them off in system prefs to see if that affects anything. The thing is, I don't really need most of them because I solo but I would like to be able to select the nearest item and the nearest NPC. When I remap to do that with an unused key it turns on just as \ does to select self but it isn't a toggle like \ is so I can't deselect the NPC or item except with a mouse click and I'm trying to eliminate most right mouse clicks. I have to get my trackball unreversed, it is making me crazy.

    I can remap the camera using the command key since that isn't in use at all so I think that will work out.

    Quirks I have found are things like the right option/alt will jump as will the space bar but the left option/alt won't jump. As well as non-functioning F keys, using shift * won't toggle 1st/3rd person though I can reprogram that one. There are a few unused letters and most of the shift letters are unused so I should have some wiggle room but those right mouse clicks are going to mess me up yet, I'm sure of it.

    Thank you for this rant.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    Has anyone actually tried to re-map their Mac keyboard?
    Yes. ... Not the entire keyboard but several keys.

    I'm not a "keyboard player," so I rarely use most of the different keys available.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    On the wireless keyboard I have found that the F keys do not work at all even if I press FN. I have not tried turning them off in system prefs to see if that affects anything.
    This is what I meant about the differences in keyboards and how OSX treats them ... I don't have the ability to turn the Function Keys on or off.

    As I mentioned earlier, I use a Logitech 102 Key (ANSI) keyboard.

    All of the Function keys work as expected. (I think, as I have not tried to verify the entire keyboard for quite some time.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    The thing is, I don't really need most of them because I solo but I would like to be able to select the nearest item and the nearest NPC. When I remap to do that with an unused key it turns on just as \ does to select self but it isn't a toggle like \ is so
    I can't deselect the NPC or item except with a mouse click and I'm trying to eliminate most right mouse clicks. I have to get my trackball unreversed, it is making me crazy.
    I use a Kensington Expert Mouse (trackball) which uses Kensington's "Trackball Works" so I have no issues re-mapping my 4 mouse buttons and "ring."

    So, depending upon whose trackball you are using, that should be easy to fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    I can remap the camera using the command key since that isn't in use at all so I think that will work out.

    Quirks I have found are things like the right option/alt will jump as will the space bar but the left option/alt won't jump. As well as non-functioning F keys, using shift * won't toggle 1st/3rd person though I can reprogram that one. There are a few unused letters and most of the shift letters are unused so I should have some wiggle room but those right mouse clicks are going to mess me up yet, I'm sure of it.
    Personally, I can't stand Apple's keyboards, so I'll have to dig my wireless keyboard out (for my iMac) and see what it does.

    Holly apple cores batman!!!!
    You have picked up a real can of worms... see this Boot Camp document:

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1171?v...S&locale=en_US

    Boot Camp: Apple Wireless Keyboard keyboard mapping in Windows

    One last point. If you are remapping keys... quit the client before it crashes!

    It is well known that the Windows Client ONLY saves its configuration information at the COMPLETION of a successful logout!
    The Mac Client apparently does the same thing.
    So any time you get a client crash or otherwise abnormal termination, the configuration plist file is not updates.

    Good luck. You may find it necessary to get a different keyboard to solve your problems.
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  11. #11
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    Smile

    Thanks for the words of wisdom and encouragement. I'm not a keyboard user at all except to type text. I'm a mouse girl from the beginning. I just want to remap the keyboard as a stepping off place to move it all to an Xbox controller since I'm very comfortable with that. As for a mouse, I use the Logitech Marble Mouse and have reversed the right and left clicks but it isn't all that flexible though very comfortable to use since I am prone to mouse knuckle. If this project fails me I may look into the Kensington. Thanks.

    edit: I checked out the link and discovered that in Windows the right Alt key has a separate function from the left alt key so that explains the jump weirdness. The keymapping ingame just says unknown unknown so I had to look in the guides to find that space was jump but it didn't say what the alternate was. I guess those are just some of the drawbacks to thinking different.
    Last edited by Moonscythe; May 05 2013 at 12:39 PM. Reason: additional thought

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    I'm back. I have begun trying to work out a remapping to the Xbox controller and have a question about the regular controls. First, is it possible to play this game without ever touching the mouse? Specifically, my problems with the controls center on the fiddly mouse buttons. First press one then the other and if you get it wrong you leap in the air spin around and come down facing a different direction . I mean that literally though I can't see myself leaping.

    In the illustration of the keyboard earlier in this thread the mouse controls are shown to be LMB select, hold and rotate the camera around the character (this is part of the leaping, I suspect)

    RMB Select or Use depending on context.

    If this was all the mouse buttons did I don't think I would have any issues but there is also a second listing that points to a lower place on the mouse that is the source of my problems. When the label says [LMB] [RMB] move forward, do the brackets indicate a secondary button? What is the difference between a LMB and a [LMB]? I know nothing about Microsoft mice. The rest of that label is the root of my problem. It says hold [RMB] first, then press [LMB] to move. It is that action which makes the camera go weird. Plus, it is the continually needing to press the right and then left buttons to initiate movement that is causing issues with my hand.

    Is there any alternative to that double action on any keyboard? I don't think I will have any success remapping to the Controller until I understand where the [LMB] & [RMB] are. Thank you for any help.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    I'm back. I have begun trying to work out a remapping to the Xbox controller and have a question about the regular controls. First, is it possible to play this game without ever touching the mouse?
    I believe it is. ... only using WASD -- to navigate.


    The "jump and spin" issue is a bug. There is another thread (or threads) about it, both on the Mac and the PC as I recall.

    We summarized it for the Mac:
    Mouse/Cursor/View Jumps
    certain mouse movements cause the cursor to Jump to center screen and the camera to position itself overhead or behind and below the character.

    As I recall, we never found a work-around for it.... other than "don't touch" or "live with it"
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    If this was all the mouse buttons did I don't think I would have any issues but there is also a second listing that points to a lower place on the mouse that is the source of my problems. When the label says [LMB] [RMB] move forward, do the brackets indicate a secondary button? What is the difference between a LMB and a [LMB]? I know nothing about Microsoft mice. The rest of that label is the root of my problem. It says hold [RMB] first, then press [LMB] to move. It is that action which makes the camera go weird. Plus, it is the continually needing to press the right and then left buttons to initiate movement that is causing issues with my hand.

    Is there any alternative to that double action on any keyboard? I don't think I will have any success remapping to the Controller until I understand where the [LMB] & [RMB] are. Thank you for any help.
    You're beyond my expertise here...

    There are probably multiple tutorials on the Web for "keyboard mapping" -- but I have not looked at them. Many will likely describe the numerous vendor specific programs available for specific keyboards.
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  15. #15
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    further travails on the path to remapping

    Valamar, you have been a big help so I will ask you. I have been sitting here just pushing buttons to see what works and what doesn't. So far, I have determined that a real mouse might work though I'm unsure if it would or would not aggravate my "mouse knuckle" but the Marble Mouse (trackball) won't work well because of the camera issues that keep appearing. This is not a good thing when aggressive foes are nearby. It can get a girl dead really fast.

    I could, maybe train myself to move on the keyboard and just ignore the mouse except that nearly all selections don't toggle off. In fact, so far all I have found that will toggle on and off is the back-slash to select self. I can select NPCs, Items, Foes and if I use them I do what I am supposed to but I can't de-select them except by using the left click on the mouse. So, my question to you is how do you manage that issue? You use the Kensington Expert Trackball, correct? How do you hold the buttons and move the ball without tying your fingers in knots? Is the deselection even an issue with your play? It bugs me to select an NPC, talk to them, then leave and have them still selected.

    Am I making any sense or do I just sound like a whiny baby? I always have asked too many questions.

    I think the left and right buttons in brackets on the diagram I saw means to hold them, though I did ask the question of tech support and maybe after the holiday they will answer. It's an added problem that this is a beta. My son thinks I should just install Boot Camp and Windows but I don't think that would solve my most basic issue which is movement. I'm not playing much because of this and it colours my attitude towards the game.

    Thank you for being patient.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    I could, maybe train myself to move on the keyboard and just ignore the mouse except that nearly all selections don't toggle off. In fact, so far all I have found that will toggle on and off is the back-slash to select self. I can select NPCs, Items, Foes and if I use them I do what I am supposed to but I can't de-select them except by using the left click on the mouse. So, my question to you is how do you manage that issue? You use the Kensington Expert Trackball, correct? How do you hold the buttons and move the ball without tying your fingers in knots? Is the deselection even an issue with your play? It bugs me to select an NPC, talk to them, then leave and have them still selected.
    A track ball is a radically different layout than a "thumb ball" setup.
    Personally, I can't stand (and have a hard time using) a "thumb ball."
    But then I've used a real track-ball now for 20+ years!
    Most stores don't carry the Kensington Expert Mouse, so I wind up ordering it on line directly. It has a lifetime guarantee and so far I've, quite literally, worn out 3 of them! ... they just send me a new one.

    The trackball is operated by the first two finger-tips, while the thumb and pinkie are free for the left and right buttons and the third finger is free to use the rotate ring. (I rarely use the top two.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    I think the left and right buttons in brackets on the diagram I saw means to hold them, though I did ask the question of tech support and maybe after the holiday they will answer.
    Don't know the answer here. Maybe I'll remember to look around for an explanation of keymap files on one of the hardware sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonscythe View Post
    It's an added problem that this is a beta. My son thinks I should just install Boot Camp and Windows but I don't think that would solve my most basic issue which is movement. I'm not playing much because of this and it colours my attitude towards the game.
    No, the MacClient is not a beta -- Turbine dropped the beta designation in December 2012 or early January when they updated the download page at lotro.com

    The basic problem is that in fact, the client has NOT changed since the early beta, and does have significant problems and issues. However, the Launcher from the Mac Client was just "moved over" to the Windows client with Update 11. It still has all of the same problems which it had back in July of 2013.

    As best a number of us can tell -- this was a contract programming job (i.e. where the "Deliverables" are written by Lawyers, not technical people) and Turbine has no "real" programmers on staff -- only Graphics programmers. The technologies and techniques used by the two groups are radically different.

    BTW, you will notice that the Forums are in fact still Beta! That was supposed to have changed about 2 weeks ago, but I know that major issues have come up with those changes, and the whole "upgrade" put off until June. ... so we'll see.
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  17. #17
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    The Logitech Marble Mouse is not a "thumb ball" I can't use those either. It is a proper finger tip controlled, smoothly moving track ball. It's not as high-powered as the Expert Mouse but has served me well for almost 10 years. http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/trackman-marble Even when I switch the right and left though I still have to press left then hold the right and move the track ball and if I don't do it smoothly then I get the leap in the air thing. For whatever reason that tends to make me tense so my hand gets more fatigued than it should. I used to use a Kensington but when the last one broke I found the Logitech fit my hand better. In fact, I was concerned that the Expert Mouse would be too bulky for comfort. I went to Best Buy to see if they had the Slimblade which also is a four button device but they don't carry it in the store either. http://www.kensington.com/kensington...trackball.aspx

    As for being a beta or not, it doesn't really matter what they call it. There are still issues that shouldn't be hanging around if it were properly finished for the Mac. That the keymapping still shows most of the assigned keys as unknown even if those are the same keys that are used on the Windows keyboard shows a lack of concern for the Mac side of the aisle. That keys will toggle for one group and not for the newcomers is most unwelcoming. LOTRO has been around for a long time and clearly have come to the Mac reluctantly.

  18. #18
    Just thought I'd toss in here that if anyone is trying to map LOTRO Mac to duplicate your Win setup, good luck. I'm used to my setup on Windows and I'm having a tough time trying to switch over to Mac. There are very few keys that I've actually been able to map in the same way that my Win setup is mapped. Very frustrating.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BentoIce View Post
    Just thought I'd toss in here that if anyone is trying to map LOTRO Mac to duplicate your Win setup, good luck. I'm used to my setup on Windows and I'm having a tough time trying to switch over to Mac. There are very few keys that I've actually been able to map in the same way that my Win setup is mapped. Very frustrating.
    This depends on how much you want to change.

    The Keymapp window works "more-better" than it claims.

    I run both the Mac Client and the Windows Client (via Crossover WINE) and use the same key maps on both.... but then I don't deviate much from the default. Mount key is probably the main one.

    I also use a Logitech 102-key keyboard, which is more PC like than the "Standard" Mac keyboard ... but I used to use the Mac "Flat top" 101-key Keyboard and had no problems with it.

    Key mapping is a subject which I don't have much experience with. It is a "hardware" subject that doesn't provide much useful information via a short google search. Someday I need to spend the time to trace down the basics... The technology hasn't changed much in 30 years.

    It's a topic which someone who is knowledgable about hardware design (and hopefully the Mac) can elaborate upon sometime.
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  20. #20

    I am new and am looking for a keyboard map.

    I am new and am looking for a keyboard map for logitech MK700 pc keyboard that includes the number pad.

    Can anyone help?
    Thanks

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piemur View Post
    I am new and am looking for a keyboard map for logitech MK700 pc keyboard that includes the number pad.
    I assume you have looked at the rest of this thread. The Information has not really changed since it was written.

    I'm currently using a Logitech G105 with no problems. It uses Logitech's LGS -- more or less.

    Basically, the keyboard itself works as expected, however, all of the "special functions" -- yes and no.
    I can program macros, which is basically what the G series is all about.

    Because of the way LOTRO is built, it is not possible to have LGS auto-detect when LOTRO is running, so it won't switch programming on the fly.
    I've asked Logitech if they will "fix" LGS to allow their search function to open the ".app" bundle to get to the actual application, but have never gotten any response.

    Other than that, there is nothing "fancy" about the MK700.

    So.... what do you mean when you say you are looking for a keyboard map?

    I should add, as far as I know, there is no version of "Setpoint" for the Mac.
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