We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 26 to 32 of 32
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    3,713
    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    A method used by those with a weak to non valid argument in order to attempt to validate any claim they may have. As I mentioned, the main purpose of gating is to preserve the story line behind the instances and the quests, to keep the lore, to keep this game from degrading down to pixels put together into cohesive shapes.
    Are you so blinded by rage that you can't recognize that gates are a failed attempt at preserving the story line? That's like closing the gate when the horse has bolted--the immersion was broken when they split up the instance. Now it's just different encounters that happen to look alike, and all the gates do is tell you that at one time, the instance used to be bigger.

    If you cannot even put the effort to run the instances once, then you shouldn't even be eligible to complain about them. Worst case, run it at the lowest level possible. Heck, even solo or duo them.

    Other people's mediocrity, laziness or inability to play for less than 20mins should not detract from other users' experience.
    I still wonder if you've read the original post. The complaining is about finding *other* people who are eligible to enter the instance. The OP is on, say, Fire--you know, putting forth the effort and actually running it--and someone drops. They need to replace that person with someone who has already done Water and Earth.

    Sounds like you just need to rage and complain about how much easier the game is these days, and just happened to skim the thread and think this is the proper place for a rant, which it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Fornost, in its original form, was a vast yet difficult instance. They simplified it a lot with the last update by separating it into 4 instances. They put the "gates" that need to be unlocked once, so that players might experience the story behind it. Is that so hard to get? Seems so. Let's just get rid of it because it is so inconvenient for people.
    No, let's get rid of it because the attempt failed. It is not getting people to experience the story. All it is doing is inconveniencing people who want to run them.
    Last edited by Frisco; May 03 2013 at 04:41 PM.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  2. #27
    Yikes, I wasn't trying to start such a fuss. I typed this last night before bed, so maybe I could have been more clear as to what I meant. My apologies. Allow me to clear up some of the confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    You can run all 4 in less than 1.5 hours, or even faster depending on the group doing the challenge at level 85.

    Want them like GB? to do all 3 in less than 25 mins?
    I'm not asking for faster or easier instances. I'm only asking for the gating system to be removed and for players to be allowed to do instances out of order because, in my humble opinion, attunment dungeoning under level cap makes it very difficult to find groups. I think it can be completely apporpriate to have the gating system at level cap, but when the player base is spread out across 84 levels, it becomes a lot more difficult to replace players who come and go.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    And why didn't he ask about GB? Which is also gated by deed? Probably because it is much faster and simpler, so everyone can do it in such a short time.
    I just used Fornost as an example because that was the last dungeon I completed. However, I feel and mentioned that all sub-85 dungeons should not have a gating system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    You only have to run them once to get them unlocked forever. I don't think this is a problem. I never have a problem finding people to fill out groups for these. You can also run all of these on level 20 to unlock them. That takes 2 minutes an instance.
    The Problem is, as I see it, is that the playerbase is very spread out; which makes it difficult to find groups for a lot of the mid level dungeons. Gating only adds to the complexity in an unintuitive way. I want to be challenged by the dungeon mechanics, not the system itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven-EU View Post
    To some of us, the removal of those five hour instances is actually a loss. We loose the epicness of the story being told in the instance. That's why you have the gates: the story of the instance. Once the story has been told you're free to revisit the parts in any order you may wish.
    This was something I considered before I posted. However, my suggestion would simply allow people to choose how they want to play the dungeons. Most options is always better, in my opinion at least. Again, gating isn't a bad thing at max level, but sub 85, it adds unnecessary difficulty to group finding in a world where the playerbase is already spread thin. I think if you can suspend disbelief enough to get over the fact that the Narsil is reforged before the fellowship gets to Rivendell (depending on your questing order), then this little change isn't such a big deal, is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    The main argument against it is: it consumes the limited developer time that could be otherwise spent on something else that we might speculate to be somewhat useful to the overall community.

    So why are you trying to run something at such low level when it is obvious it so hard to find a non-level cap group?
    I believe that the gating is what makes finding a group so difficult. Yes, you want to keep end game players happy and paying, but you want to keep new players coming in to replace the ones that leave. A very small change - like removing gating - would allow players to enjoy dungeoning at all levels. One of the chief complaints I see from lower levels that I meet with is how difficult it is to find groups. Gating only adds to the tedium of this.

    I hope this clears up what I meant by my original post a bit. I'm not looking to get into any kind of arguments and I won't be coming back to this thread again as I unwittingly caused a lot of drama that I would never intentionally cause.

    Thanks for all who read and responded. Even if I don't agree with everyone, I respect all your opinions and hope you folks have a wonderful weekend!

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    You really have a hard time understanding huh? The game is slowly deviating away from the epic raids and challenging instances, and trickling down to petty games such as the ones that you express. Deep down, it is the same mentality as the OP that drives the game towards the spiral of simplicity and convenience. The hobbit presents is a prime example of that.
    The game is slowly deviating away from epic raids and challenging instances because Turbine choose to. Your completely made up relation between removing Fornost gating and the path Turbine is currently taking is completely on your own account and is silly at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    A method used by those with a weak to non valid argument in order to attempt to validate any claim they may have. As I mentioned, the main purpose of gating is to preserve the story line behind the instances and the quests, to keep the lore, to keep this game from degrading down to pixels put together into cohesive shapes.
    A counter-method used by those with an even weaker argument in order to attempt to validate any claim they may have. Can you see where this is going?
    As for preserving the story line that's a completely useless point as you can easily play all 4 instances without getting any of the story. If you don't take the quests, read the quest descriptions and know nothing about Fornost, it's just 4 generic instances. If you want to get the story line there's plenty of possibility to do so without the gating.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Again, this is Fornost unlocks we are talking about. It is not ToO t2 saruman deed at level 75. These locks are easy to do.

    If you cannot even put the effort to run the instances once, then you shouldn't even be eligible to complain about them. Worst case, run it at the lowest level possible. Heck, even solo or duo them.

    Other people's mediocrity, laziness or inability to play for less than 20mins should not detract from other users' experience.
    Clearly you're the one who's completely missing the point here as Frisco also points out.
    It's not about getting the gate unlocked yourself, it is a lot more about having to keep doing Water + Earth wing every time you make a pug because one or two in your pug dont have the deed done. Finding 6 people who have done the deeds can be rough at 85, I can easily imagine its impossible at lower levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Let's also allow people to auto-rank toons like in Bullroarer, after all, it is inconvenient to level. Might as well add an option to get all the loot that you desire, some people do not have the time to run instances and raids, but still want the gear from them. Would that make all of you happy?
    Heh, for one using "A method used by those with a weak to non valid argument in order to attempt to validate any claim they may have.", you're doing well yourself blowing this completely out of proportion just to prove your weak argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by faithvoid View Post
    Yikes, I wasn't trying to start such a fuss. I typed this last night before bed, so maybe I could have been more clear as to what I meant. My apologies. Allow me to clear up some of the confusion.
    Well you made a fair suggestion, not your fault that fulred can't handle seeing such suggestions without acting up.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; May 03 2013 at 07:43 PM.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    The game is slowly deviating away from epic raids and challenging instances because Turbine choose to.
    Turbine is the provider of the content and we are the consumers. The supplier will attempt to cater to its target consumer base, often measuring it by consumer acceptance and choice. Taking a stand and showing that not all players want this game to be simplified, but try to regain some of its former epicness is what some should do in an attempt to show that not all agree with that direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    As for preserving the story line that's a completely useless point as you can easily play all 4 instances without getting any of the story. If you don't take the quests, read the quest descriptions and know nothing about Fornost, it's just 4 generic instances. If you want to get the story line there's plenty of possibility to do so without the gating.
    '

    Again, the gating is set up to allow for some continuity. Many players do read those quests, and its descriptions at least once. After it, it is what enriches the experience you get out of this game. Perhaps you are different and just rush through things and farm. But for many, we are very interested in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Finding 6 people who have done the deeds can be rough at 85, I can easily imagine its impossible at lower levels.
    Would you like everything spoonfed to you too? The deed itself, like others have pointed out, is something you do once and is not really difficult at all. Is that so hard to comprehend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    you're doing well yourself blowing this completely out of proportion just to prove your weak argument.
    Seems you get overwhelmed and start imagining things with more than a few sentences. Elrantiri, often it is alright to acknowledge that you jumped into this argument and at this moment you are just arguing for your unwillingness to accept that other people who hold different views might have valid views. If you read your own posts, you will realize you are just playing with words and attempting to ridicule or debase my posts, probably since you have truly ran out of useful things to say.

    Again: Gating instances serve a purpose to help players establish a form of continuity in the story line, just like the Epic quests. After you have done them once, you can re-do them as you wish, however, you are not able to jump around. Those who do not like that, skip it or revisit it at a later time.

    To faithvoid: I understand it can be an inconvenience at times, however, as I tried to explain to Elrantiri several times, the gating serves to guide the flow of the story line that many people enjoy. The story is one of the big draws for many people in this game. Without them, the story lines can get mixed and lead to confusions, especially to new people. That is why, I believe, the gates are removed once you clear them once. May I suggest you try to arrange a time with in-game friends to run those instances? I'm sure you have come to meet some good people in this game. Cheers!
    Last edited by fulred; May 03 2013 at 11:06 PM.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Turbine is the provider of the content and we are the consumers. The supplier will attempt to cater to its target consumer base, often measuring it by consumer acceptance and choice. Taking a stand and showing that not all players want this game to be simplified, but try to regain some of its former epicness is what some should do in an attempt to show that not all agree with that direction.
    And your posts in this thread is you 'taking a stand'?

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Again, the gating is set up to allow for some continuity. Many players do read those quests, and its descriptions at least once. After it, it is what enriches the experience you get out of this game. Perhaps you are different and just rush through things and farm. But for many, we are very interested in it.
    The gating does nothing compared to the quests, you could easily obtain the same amount of continuity by just having the quests and e.g. change the hilt quest to require you to get the Water one before the Earth one and so on, so the quests are the ones requiring you to play through the instances as required storywise. The gating itself serves no purpose but inconvenience, especially when you have out-leveled the quests or never even seen the quests (e.g. if you leveled in Evendim and skipped North Downs).

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Would you like everything spoonfed to you too? The deed itself, like others have pointed out, is something you do once and is not really difficult at all. Is that so hard to comprehend?
    You easily have to do the deeds once every time you play in pugs because there's almost always one or more than don't have the deeds. If you only look for people who have the deeds, you can easily use as much time as it'd take to get the deeds anyway. Therefore you're either to do that deed many times if you play in pugs or you're going to use a lot of time not playing because you're waiting for people with the deeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Seems you get overwhelmed and start imagining things with more than a few sentences. Elrantiri, often it is alright to acknowledge that you jumped into this argument and at this moment you are just arguing for your unwillingness to accept that other people who hold different views might have valid views. If you read your own posts, you will realize you are just playing with words and attempting to ridicule or debase my posts, probably since you have truly ran out of useful things to say.
    Imagining things? Read your previous post:

    Let's also allow people to auto-rank toons like in Bullroarer, after all, it is inconvenient to level. Might as well add an option to get all the loot that you desire, some people do not have the time to run instances and raids, but still want the gear from them. Would that make all of you happy?
    That has nothing to do with imagination on my part, it has everything to do with you blowing it completely out of proportion. Asking for removal of gating is on a completely different level than what you 'ask' for here.
    I can easily acknowledge when others have valid point of view, but I have seen nothing of the sort from your side.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; May 04 2013 at 02:41 AM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,949
    Quote Originally Posted by fulred View Post
    Elrantiri, often it is alright to acknowledge that you jumped into this argument and at this moment you are just arguing for your unwillingness to accept that other people who hold different views might have valid views.
    Just a thought? Maybe you'd have more success in presenting your own views if they weren't so obviously laced with insulting condescension for those who play differently than you do.

    Back when I had more time to play this game, I used to enjoy long instances, too. The original Fornost and original 8.5 were, at that time, very appealing to me. Now, they wouldn't be, because I don't have the play time I used to. If you want to interpret that as laziness or a lack of skill on my part, that's your choice, but don't expect me to listen to much you have to say once you take that tack.
    solien
    armor-plated since SoA alpha 3
    arkenstone: hall of fire & into the west

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven-EU View Post
    To some of us, the removal of those five hour instances is actually a loss. We loose the epicness of the story being told in the instance. That's why you have the gates: the story of the instance. Once the story has been told you're free to revisit the parts in any order you may wish.
    I ran Fornost, Helegrod and Rift 'back in the day' .. what all-encompassing story did I miss in all of them?

    They were a long haul through one boss after another, and in the case of Helegrod each had precious little to do with the 'end boss' and the 'story' which Turbine cobbled together for it. Each section of it (which are now wings) were entirely unrelated to the others and none at all had anything to do with Thorog!

    Fornost was just one long trudge without any real meaning. Rift alone had a hint of a cohesive story, if you tried hard working on it.

    Sure, some folks enjoy 4-5 hours at a stretch, most don't as evidenced by the relatively small numbers that did it, but please don't try to argue those 'epic' slogs had anything remotely resembling an over-arching 'story' that meant much of anything.

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload