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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    Which is why I'm not stating (or don't really mean to state, making my points may seem like I'm stating) that HD will have an instance cluster and raid. But I'm also not stating that it won't. We just don't know. Until we do, it's all up in the air and anything could happen. Going from past trends, it will have an instance cluster and raid. Now whether that ships with HD or comes at a later point (like the Erebor cluster did), is an unknown as well. I also don't think the quote really gives any indication either way. The question was about scaled content, the answer was at best a teaser to get people talking, and is hardly definitive of whether there is instanced content, an instance cluster, or raid (or any combination of those).
    I personally see them waiting as long as possible to let all the raiders pre-order the expansion, before saying, oh maybe in july or so, that the Expansion will not contain any new instances. That way they can have their cake, and eat it too.
    Windfola:
    Bretela LVL 100 Warden Gwaithol LVL 100 Hunter Brilliance LVL 86+ LM
    Mac User, Raider

  2. #77
    probably going to try out swtor, been playing fallout 3 and rome:total war for the first time in ages.

    ill probably stick around to find out if theres any real endgame with helms deep, but if there isnt, im pretty much done with this game. as well as many i know.

    a lot of people in my kin dont seem to want to even do FLM. we have T2 pretty much on farm, and T2C is another beast altogether(that will be getting nerfed on monday). the day update 10 came out, we had over a page of 85's online, now, we are lucky to get 6+ unless its raid time.
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    Which is why I'm not stating (or don't really mean to state, making my points may seem like I'm stating) that HD will have an instance cluster and raid. But I'm also not stating that it won't. We just don't know. Until we do, it's all up in the air and anything could happen. Going from past trends, it will have an instance cluster and raid. Now whether that ships with HD or comes at a later point (like the Erebor cluster did), is an unknown as well. I also don't think the quote really gives any indication either way. The question was about scaled content, the answer was at best a teaser to get people talking, and is hardly definitive of whether there is instanced content, an instance cluster, or raid (or any combination of those).
    Oh, I actually agree with your point that we won't know for sure what will be in the expansion, definitely not based on the current information. But I was more replying in general to your 'until I see one way or the other' (which has been pointed out by others well). You won't. You'll see one way (if there are instances), you won't see the other. Both RoI and RoR pre-order marketing have been excellent in only providing very limited, positive information right up until they finished the closed Beta.

    Personally I believe that if they don't mention instances by the time pre-orders start, they won't be there. There's a couple of very simple reasons for that, first that it's too big of a feature to leave out of advertisement materials. Second, they've been trying to separate instances and expansion ever since RoI (where they didn't release them simultaneously and already made you buy them separately in the store), with RoR they probably weren't to be included (Erebor isn't in any way connected to RoR, and there was no mention of anything like it until the sudden announcement of 'free instances later in the year', along with the additional TPs on the pre-orders. That tells me pre-orders didn't quite sell as planned). I wouldn't be surprised if one of the 'Legendary' pre-order features will be 'Get the December update with a new instance cluster for FREE!' without any additional information about them (like number, type or price) or some similar shenanigans.
    Ingaras, lvl 75 Elven Hunter; and others...
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingaras View Post
    There's one problem though: Turbine has never announced content that is NOT going to be in the expansion. So we're going to have this discussion either until they announce there are raids in HD after all or until HD is released and we can find out for ourselves that there aren't any raids in there.
    Sure it has, remember the class specific content announced for RoI, or the PvMP Zone?
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  5. #80
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    Based on comments regarding how they're spending development dollars, combined with their numbers stating that group content players are in the minority, and taken alongside the slow and steady decline of group content since Moria, it would be safe to assume a few things. The chances that there will be a quality instance cluster or a multi-boss progression raid at HD launch seem pretty predictable at this point--and extremely low. It's not pessimism, it's realism based on Turbine's words and actions.

    It's pretty likely that there will be a lair raid, a 6-man, and maybe a couple 3-mans at a later update. But I won't be shocked if there aren't. What their numbers are telling them right now is that people will run whatever is necessary to get loot. The #1 run 6-man currently? 6-year-old Sambrog. The masses don't want "new" or "quality". They want "quick" and "easy". Is it worth it to go through all the trouble of making good, new stuff when you can get the same mindless addict drone behavior out of scaling stuff from the last decade? The money is in feeding addiction, and we should expect the bare minimum needed to turn the biggest profit in the future. Anything more than that isn't optimism--it's foolishness.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    . The #1 run 6-man currently? 6-year-old Sambrog. The masses don't want "new" or "quality". They want "quick" and "easy". Is it worth it to go through all the trouble of making good, new stuff when you can get the same mindless addict drone behavior out of scaling stuff from the last decade? The money is in feeding addiction, and we should expect the bare minimum needed to turn the biggest profit in the future. Anything more than that isn't optimism--it's foolishness.
    I somewhat disagree with this. The only reason why that instance is the most commonly run, is because people run it for seals, and the only reason why they want seals is because the entire game has turned into a grind-fest. People complained the game was too hard, so they lowered the difficulty, however they realized then that it was too easy to get drops, so they decreased the drop rates of gear, and put everything in the skrimish camp for a large amount of Marks/Meds/Seals. Therefore people run Sambrog because it has the highest efficiency rate when it comes to seals vs. time.

    However If turbine decided to make content hard again, not hard because of unforgiving/confusing mechanics(ie F and F) or sheer luck(flight) but hard because the content is complex and requires a certain level of player proficiency, base stats(ie not running it in crafted gear), and coordination. If the numbers of raiders/groupers is so low, why not cater to what the majority of these people want and make difficult content?
    Windfola:
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  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan583 View Post
    I somewhat disagree with this.....Therefore people run Sambrog because it has the highest efficiency rate when it comes to seals vs. time.
    right...quick and easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan583 View Post
    However If turbine decided to make content hard again, not hard because of unforgiving/confusing mechanics(ie F and F) or sheer luck(flight) but hard because the content is complex and requires a certain level of player proficiency, base stats(ie not running it in crafted gear), and coordination. If the numbers of raiders/groupers is so low, why not cater to what the majority of these people want and make difficult content?
    It almost feels like they're going to come out one day and say "HA! We sure fooled you! By the way here's the real instance cluster". It's surreal how out of touch this game is with the group-driven crowd. I feel alienated.
    Last edited by mrfigglesworth; May 09 2013 at 02:53 PM.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    106
    I will probably play other games and stop LOTRO. I will probably give Wildermore a run through on 1 character and then there will be nothing to do. The current state of the game is pushing away so many people. My kin has MAYBE 3-4 members on unless it's raid time when we used to have lots of active kin members just a few weeks ago.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/072060000001cf6d8/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  9. #84
    Once again they moved away from the part of a system that would have made it work.

    New/Current Cluster rewards higher Seals.
    Old Scaled Clusters reward no or low Seals.

    Scaled spaces should only be rewarding 1-2 seals per run, maximum. Giving less organized groups a path to the skirm vendor, more organized groups spaces to farm gear and a faster path to the skirm vendor, while giving incentive to run the new content.

    Of course that would have wanted a bit larger Cluster.

    Wasn't this how they said they were going to handle Seals?

    The new release philosophy seems pretty straight forward, and leaves little doubt there will be no Instance Cluster or Raid launched with HD.

    They seem to be comfortable with

    Release Xpac
    Add Instance Cluster/Raid in first Update. Reset Seals at this time.
    Landmass including some type of end game content ala Roots of Fangorn/Hytbold, in the spring.

    The Cluster is included in the price of the Xpac, not the Quest Pack, the Spring update free to VIPs.

    It's not a terrible schedule, not the best, but workable at least. The major failing is their seeming inability to address and fix bugged content in a timely manner.

    The current Raids should have been added one at a time, either at the launch of an Xpac ala Draigoch or with the Spring Updates. Having a "Turtle" style Raid every Xpac is not a bad thing, in conjunction with a multi boss Space, having 3 of them as the main Raid spaces for an entire Cycle is not a good thing.

    ymmv
    Last edited by Gedachtnis; May 09 2013 at 03:38 PM.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan583 View Post
    I somewhat disagree with this. The only reason why that instance is the most commonly run, is because people run it for seals, and the only reason why they want seals is because the entire game has turned into a grind-fest. People complained the game was too hard, so they lowered the difficulty, however they realized then that it was too easy to get drops, so they decreased the drop rates of gear, and put everything in the skrimish camp for a large amount of Marks/Meds/Seals. Therefore people run Sambrog because it has the highest efficiency rate when it comes to seals vs. time.
    Sounds like "somewhat disagree" means "agree entirely.

    However If turbine decided to make content hard again, not hard because of unforgiving/confusing mechanics(ie F and F) or sheer luck(flight) but hard because the content is complex and requires a certain level of player proficiency, base stats(ie not running it in crafted gear), and coordination. If the numbers of raiders/groupers is so low, why not cater to what the majority of these people want and make difficult content?
    The content they made, they made in a pretty wide range. The raid T2Cs are difficult, just not at all engaging or rewarding. Bells is the easiest 6-man they've ever created. The 3-mans are above average difficulty in T2C.

    The problem is the reward mismanagement, and giving a much easier and faster route to loot through scaled instances. Why would someone run Seat of the Goblin King when they could run School in 20% of the time? It's only about the challenge until it's no longer challenging.

    The moment they changed Moria instances to drop universal currency and they saw that groups only ran Grand Stair, they realized that they don't need to make a lot of content, or make it difficult, to get people logging in. We're rats in a cage, and they've figured out the cheapest way to get us to press the button for the food pellet the most often. Food=seals. Cheapest method=scaled instances, with a touch of new stuff to make us think that it's a conscious choice to run the old stuff.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  11. #86
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    Apr 2008
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    Well, Neverwinter turned out to be a cashgrab.
    So now there's 100% completing FE Awakening on Lunatic +, since I spent $260 on it but only played for 40-50 hours... MGS for the fun of it, maybe MGS3 3D if I bother to get it... Animal Crossing New Leaf...
    There's always FTL... I could buy Torchlight II, Sonic CD, SA2 PC, or Audiosurf...
    Or I could try finishing my Fire Emblem hack... Nah... Eventing/testing gets too boring...
    OH RIGHT, I COULD TRY ACTUALLY COMPLETING A TOUHOU GAME.
    Or I could finish that Danmakufu script I started years ago.
    Last edited by Kingault; May 09 2013 at 05:18 PM.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    715
    pvp will die with u11, pve is dying. Im glad lotro going downhill i can finally start living real life, maybe start going to gym more often, practice guitar skills more, find girlfriend and so on =) in worst case gonna play GW2

  13. #88
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    Most of the raiding core of our kin has already moved on to Rift and we're enjoying it. We're still raiding here occasionally, but I fully expect that to trail off into the summer. No one in my kin is excited about U11 and I'm sure many of us will hardly touch it. What's the point?

    We have decided that we see little point in maintaining a raiding kin and have stopped any and all recruiting into our kin. A few members who have decided to stick with the game have already left, knowing that we will have naught but a ghost town sooner than later. With so little reward from raiding and the bleakest outlook a LotRO raider/grouper has ever seen, I actually feel fine with the thought of leaving this game behind. Many of us spent years speaking our minds in hopes our niche would be catered to, but it's clearly a lost cause.

    To new horizons...
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  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Sounds like "somewhat disagree" means "agree entirely.
    I agree with most of your posts(and your general opinion) but that paragraph seemed a bit off .



    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    The content they made, they made in a pretty wide range. The raid T2Cs are difficult, just not at all engaging or rewarding. Bells is the easiest 6-man they've ever created. The 3-mans are above average difficulty in T2C.
    Smaug is a joke , battle took 4(IIRC) weeks to be beaten, Flight is gonna be a joke after Tuesday...
    Compared to past content, this stuff is easy. I would be ok with that if they actually scaled stuff correctly. IE only make it set to original level, and max level allowing actually tuning of health/damage etc. Keeping original gear with original level, new gear on max level. And maintain orignal difficulty level throughout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    The problem is the reward mismanagement, and giving a much easier and faster route to loot through scaled instances. Why would someone run Seat of the Goblin King when they could run School in 20% of the time? It's only about the challenge until it's no longer challenging.
    9 Seals for Glinghant, its a joke of an instance that takes 20min, 4(or maybe 3) seals for Disease wing of OD.

    Loot System sucks as well.
    Windfola:
    Bretela LVL 100 Warden Gwaithol LVL 100 Hunter Brilliance LVL 86+ LM
    Mac User, Raider

  15. #90
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    Aug 2011
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    What are raiders planning to do for the next 6 months?

    That question is being asked all the time in one form or the other in the forums but in game also. Consensus is pretty much the same - try other games (we raiders are hooked on this style of play and its not going to change any time soon).

    I plan on trying other games that cater to my needs (same as most of you guys here) but i must say that there is a small number of games that "we" (the raiders) can turn to if we want hard challenging raid content. I decided that im going to try a game that has: great raid content and/or great pvp. Raiding as a style is apparently out (i didnt get the memo but it looks like rift and wow are the only ones we can turn too). A game with good pvp could hold me because there seem to be quite a few of them that are good. I already tried some in the past when LotRO had its dry spells but always came back. Dont see that happening this time around though.

    And for the record i think this game will not end when raiders and pvpers leave. There are huge numbers of players that do not care about those play styles and they only want to explore the beautiful scenery and do an occasional 3man or 6man. We will not be missed... Less money to invest in making raids (that raiders are never happy with) and more money making solo friendly game that sells mounts, cosmetics and provides epic scenery.

    Turbine opened the exit door for pvpers when they said that pvp is not getting anything in the next 7 months for sure (probably nothing soon after that and it havent gotten anything good in the past 6 years except changing the location of oc and ec)

    Turbine opened the exit door for raiders with this joke of an instance/raid cluster in RoR (whatever it should be called) and is kicking us out with the news about new expansion and "apparently" no raids. Honestly i would rather they didnt make a raid cluster just for the sake of making it because its probably gonna be worse then this mess we got with RoR and i think that wont do any good to anyone.

    Im sorry that this game has gone this path, but i hope for best for this game and i will return from time to time to check the updated and expansions but i will not waste my time on this game when the devs obviously do not want "my kind" here.

  16. #91
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    Feb 2013
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    189
    Sweet they finally got rid of the raiders once and for all. Turbine can now focus on their target audience http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscart...es/ctan14l.jpg not the mechanic. How easy it is to push one button or a lever and money comes out? Bingo anyone? Farmville anyone?

    At least Helms Deep shows a lot of promise! What else would a lvl 85 raider that sticks around farming instances non-stop to get gold items and refining their class would go against? A challenging Helms Deep that a level 10 can do and more likely another solo instance. That is the answer of Turbine.

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  17. #92
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    • Trying to finishing erebor raids with our weekely raid (Flight we need T2 and C, Erebor we need the Challenge)
    • Playing some PvP (mostly creepside). I've planned to bring cappy to r10 and warg to r11 by the end of summer
    • Waiting for more infos about HD before planning more time on Lotro.
    • Waiting for Europa Universalis 4 and Starbound as single players
    • Waiting for TESO for some MMORPG action
    • Following Camelot Unchained creation (expected release end of 2015), i've backed some money ok KS and i'm trusting in their RvR and new ideas. Great Expectations.
    • Played Neverwinter, but seems boring to me
    • Played Gw2 but it's all so simple, short to finish and PvP it's only zerging
    [CENTER][B]Commander Almeric[/B][I]
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  18. #93
    I was planning to get my Hero of the Ettenmoors title but came back to read the forums to find they are taking away my deeds and giving them to people afk in GV come update 11. LoL Turbine.

    Honestly like prior posters have said this raid cluster barley motivates people to log in. The fact that my kin even attempted Flight T2C for night after night and countless hours was part of my desire and work time input-ed to do it, their outstanding loyalty to this game (a last push of desperation to not quit). We came close to challenge and I had to leave for my month work break which I'm still on until the end of may. I don't know if we will finish Flight or not when I get back. Who knows who will still be on people I know are quitting left and right as new customers outside the North America are coming in and buying monster packages in the Lotro store. It's one of the darkest eras of Lotro.

    With no raids for the summer, max rank pvp attained and my titles gone with update 11 I forsee
    -Getting a tan
    -Riding motor bike
    -Girls
    -Bar
    -Work
    -Sleep
    -Workout
    -TV
    -Eating
    -Logging into vent and reading the forums and laughing with people about the game

    Anyone want to go skydiving?
    Last edited by YesMaam; May 11 2013 at 03:08 AM.
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  19. #94
    It sounds like the damage is done and I fear it is irreparable. The future of LOTRO looks more and more like it will be come a SPORPG game which a few bits of non-essential group content kept in. I've started levelling up on RIFT too and we even started a guild there for our kinnies to join.

    To get their hardcore players back and spending money Helms Deep needs to have a huge raid cluster that is really tough with some exciting new mechanics for us to get our teeth into. I don't care if the T1 version of it is faceroll easy, that can keep the SP's happy. But the raid must have 5-6 bosses, be progressive, include weekly locks, old style loot chests with a guaranteed armour token per-raid dropping from every T2C chest and half the T2 chests. Lvl 95 1st agers should only drop from T2 chests too along with gold recipes, and best in class loot.

    Shame it will never happen, there are more soloers than raiders and they seem to shout loudest
    Lose = To suffer defeat or fail to win.
    Loose = Not tight or released from a fastening or attachment.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2221900000017d924/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  20. #95
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    102
    We raiders shouldn't give up on the best mmorpg that has ever surfaced. The new raids have extremely interesting mechanics, especially the warriors in flight t2c. The difficulty is immense too, look at Smaug, the 2nd most difficult raid after Draigoch and turtle. Loot is perfect as it is. Ask ourselves, which raider would not want to farm for that elusive gold item by doing instances over and over again - entertaining and challenging instances at that. Lest we forget, there is still the player council. That council will ensure we get the best raids ever.


    Who am I kidding?


    http://blog.dota2.com

  21. #96
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    Gonna try to complete ftlm t2c after u11... Lots of the people in our small kin don't log that much anymore and play other games. We don't even have raid times atm simply because it doesn't interest us that much and the raids itself are boring.

    Probably will log sometimes, go in vent , check moors out or simply do some small things with friends. Only reason why i play active atm is bcuz i enjoy grouping with friends, def not the content...

    I will check out HD though, Pretty much the last chance i'll give to Turbine and otherwise my ps3 is gonna get a lot more attention....
    Second Marshall Tarpelion/Commander Huntarp/Master guardsman Vindicto
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  22. #97
    For those trying out RIFT consider rolling on the Wolfsbane server. A bunch of guys from Noldor are leveling up there and if you see us around say "hello". I suspect anyone reading threads in this forum will find the leveling grind just as boring as LoTROs, but we are looking forward to end-game and getting back to a game that values raiding.

  23. #98
    I've been trying many other games with end game raiding myself.

    I still log into lotro window mode and if there is anything happening il join out of nostalgia, and love of the game BUT it's not my main game anymore. I'm a lifer so logging in and sitting while keeping an eye out on glff for any instance (once I get bored of levelling in my current game) doesn't hurt.

    All old friends have left and just left me alone with great memories I once had here.

    By the way I went back to EQ, tried rift but ended up paying 6 month sub for World of Warcraft.

    With 9 million players I thought it must be doing something right and I wasn't wrong.

    So for the foreseeable future I keep lotro running in the background while levelling in WoW and who knows one day it may get to the point I get back to lotro for good (if they bring raids back with future expansions) or one day I might not even bother clicking that golden ring on my desktop that in years gone by gave me so much fun.

  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeprecision123 View Post
    We raiders shouldn't give up on the best mmorpg that has ever surfaced. The new raids have extremely interesting mechanics, especially the warriors in flight t2c. The difficulty is immense too, look at Smaug, the 2nd most difficult raid after Draigoch and turtle. Loot is perfect as it is. Ask ourselves, which raider would not want to farm for that elusive gold item by doing instances over and over again - entertaining and challenging instances at that. Lest we forget, there is still the player council. That council will ensure we get the best raids ever.


    Who am I kidding?


    http://blog.dota2.com
    Brilliant post. +rep

    I think its fair to say at this point that most of the higher quality raiders in lotro will probably soon find out (Or already have) that other games developers are actually improving the game on each update instead of adding useless mechanics like mounted combat and destroying old features of the game that people used to enjoy because it was difficult and it meant something to actually complete it e.g. Kb deeds in Ettens.

    This game gets easier every update. (T1's dropping FA symbols?? Really??) (Store item +100% infamy/renown gain?? Really??)
    Whats next? I wont be around to find out that's for sure ^^
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2022500000002c285/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Spidex View Post
    Brilliant post. +rep

    I think its fair to say at this point that most of the higher quality raiders in lotro will probably soon find out (Or already have) that other games developers are actually improving the game on each update instead of adding useless mechanics like mounted combat and destroying old features of the game that people used to enjoy because it was difficult and it meant something to actually complete it e.g. Kb deeds in Ettens.

    This game gets easier every update. (T1's dropping FA symbols?? Really??) (Store item +100% infamy/renown gain?? Really??)
    Whats next? I wont be around to find out that's for sure ^^
    Next on list its Greatness Helm deep Armour (endgame armour set with best stats) by 4k Turbine points, First age symbol by 800TP, Great set of jeweler for each class by 3k TP. Tittle/House item/Horse/Horse cosmetic from Helm deep raid (If there is any DD) by 7k Turbine points.
    Anyway Kyo, i gonna come to you in dota2, one day, i promise!
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