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  1. #51
    gw2, dota 2 and AC serires for me.

    I dont even plan to come back even, turbine wont release any group content when the expansion hits

  2. #52
    I think the question should have been 'What are raiders planning to do from now on?' Simple answer: Raiders will raid in other games or as some other person said, they will take their talents to other games...

    Since there won't be any group content in HD's launch or after launch, there is no reason to bother. Let's say they decided to throw an IC there with an update. But what update? Spring of 2014? They will probably add another solo zone (or not).

    They said themselves west rohan is not suitable for an IC. So, what other places are suitable? If you think about it, very few places are actually suitable. They will use this excuse to their advantage. An IC requires lots of work and time.

    They will probably start working on the next expansion after HD's launch and some other solo content. Maybe revamp old dead zones (trollshaws,north downs). I don't think (after seeing Erebor's failed work) they will work on raids anymore.

    Let's say by a miracle, they promise us an IC for february 2015 because finally Rohan part is over and they found a suitable place. By that time no raiders will be left in the game. And other games will have their new expansions and new raids etc. If no action is taken in the near future by Turbine, there won't be any chance to draw back old costumers ever again...
    Last edited by choon_blaze; May 06 2013 at 02:24 PM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by choon_blaze View Post
    Since there won't be any group content in HD's launch or after launch, there is no reason to bother. Let's say they decided to throw an IC there with an update. But what update? Spring of 2014? They will probably add another solo zone (or not).

    They said themselves west rohan is not suitable for an IC. So, what other places are suitable?
    Source?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/272180000001064cc/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheilyn View Post
    Source?
    No raid with HD's launch is from twitter dev chat and no raid after launch is an educated guess...

  5. #55
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    I imagine there will be a raid with HD, like there has been in every expansion to-date, unless they don't renew the LOTR license and shut down the game in December.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by choon_blaze View Post
    No raid with HD's launch is from twitter dev chat and no raid after launch is an educated guess...
    Well that makes my decision a lot easier. Honestly I can not believe they did not learn from the &&&&storm they earned for RoR.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/272180000001064cc/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by choon_blaze View Post
    No raid with HD's launch is from twitter dev chat and no raid after launch is an educated guess...
    Can I get a source/link? I don't feel like they've had a dev chat since HD was announced and I don't think that kind of information (whether HD will have an instance cluster/raid on launch) has been released.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    Can I get a source/link? I don't feel like they've had a dev chat since HD was announced and I don't think that kind of information (whether HD will have an instance cluster/raid on launch) has been released.
    Here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-March-21-2013


    Q28: OverlordGate - Which instance cluster will be scaled and revamped next and when can we expect it?

    A28: Derek Flippo
    Right now we’re focusing on prototyping Helm’s Deep instanced content for the upcoming expansion pack. After we’ve shipped the expansion we’ll evaluate the remaining potential revamps vs. making new instances.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by choon_blaze View Post
    Here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-March-21-2013

    Q28: OverlordGate - Which instance cluster will be scaled and revamped next and when can we expect it?

    A28: Derek Flippo
    Right now we’re focusing on prototyping Helm’s Deep instanced content for the upcoming expansion pack. After we’ve shipped the expansion we’ll evaluate the remaining potential revamps vs. making new instances.
    Where does it say there won't be any instances/raids with Helms Deep? It seems to say the exact opposite, that they are working on instances for Helms Deep, and to do so they are pushing back revamping and scaling other instances (like Rift).

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    Where does it say there won't be any instances/raids with Helms Deep? It seems to say the exact opposite, that they are working on instances for Helms Deep, and to do so they are pushing back revamping and scaling other instances (like Rift).
    Instanced content is not instance/raid. It is either session play or instanced areas you go in epic quests. They will make up their minds about revamping old or making new instances after the expansion is shipped. Even if they decide to make new ones (low chance) it will take a LONG time...

  11. #61
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    Well, raiding is only 1 bullet point on a very long list of reasons... but I share the same sentiments. I have been working on my back catalog:

    Tried Guildwars 2 (didn't really take)
    Just beat Torchlight 1.
    Just finished Broken Sword 1-3 and am playing 4 in anticipation of 5 due out soon-ish.
    Also playing Chronicles of Riddick (am near the end of Butcher Bay).
    Also trying out Neverwinter.
    Next up are the Neverwinter Nights games for replay and some expansions I missed as well as a Gabriel Knight 3 replay in anticipation of Mystery Game X (am hopeful for a GK4 )

    Have backed on Kickstarter (and will play on release):

    Broken Sword 5
    Moebius and Mystery Game X
    Dreamfall Chapters
    Asylum
    Tex Murphy: Project Fedora
    Grim Dawn

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by choon_blaze View Post
    Instanced content is not instance/raid. It is either session play or instanced areas you go in epic quests. They will make up their minds about revamping old or making new instances after the expansion is shipped. Even if they decide to make new ones (low chance) it will take a LONG time...
    If they aren't talking about actual instances/raids, then where's the quote that says there aren't any raids coming with Helms Deep? If we're just speculating here, then that's fine, but I was under the impression you had evidence there wasn't any raids coming with HD, but a quote that isn't about instances/raids that doesn't even say they aren't coming out with a raid with Helms Deep (it merely says they will have instanced content, which is hardly a surprise at all, all expansions and content updates so far have had some instanced content in one way or the other since the release of the game) is hardly proof they won't have a raid with the release. Does Turbine have a great track record recently of getting the content out on time? Not really. But does that mean that trend will continue? Until we get some actual information about what is or is not coming with Helms Deep I'd rather have people mention they are speculating instead of making blanket statements using past events as the reasoning. Considering one person already seems to have decided to not bother with HD after your misleading statement...

    Personally I feel when they say "instanced" I feel they mean any type of instance you can think of, including raids. Though, when it comes down to it, if they don't have the battle for Helm's Deep in an actual raid (or even a scaling skirmish), then I will be very disappointed because I have waited for this battle for a long time and only getting to see it in a session play or solo instance would be very disappointing. But at this time it's still up in the air on how they will handle it.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    If they aren't talking about actual instances/raids, then where's the quote that says there aren't any raids coming with Helms Deep? If we're just speculating here, then that's fine, but I was under the impression you had evidence there wasn't any raids coming with HD, but a quote that isn't about instances/raids that doesn't even say they aren't coming out with a raid with Helms Deep (it merely says they will have instanced content, which is hardly a surprise at all, all expansions and content updates so far have had some instanced content in one way or the other since the release of the game) is hardly proof they won't have a raid with the release. Does Turbine have a great track record recently of getting the content out on time? Not really. But does that mean that trend will continue? Until we get some actual information about what is or is not coming with Helms Deep I'd rather have people mention they are speculating instead of making blanket statements using past events as the reasoning. Considering one person already seems to have decided to not bother with HD after your misleading statement...

    I'm not misleading anyone. There won't be any raids with HD. Simple as that.This isn't blanket statements using past events as a reasoning either. 'No raids with HD' can be seen in that very quote. All the speculations are based on that quote. If there was any raid, they would tell 'Well we are very excited about our new IC coming out in December etc'.

    Personally I feel when they say "instanced" I feel they mean any type of instance you can think of, including raids. Though, when it comes down to it, if they don't have the battle for Helm's Deep in an actual raid (or even a scaling skirmish), then I will be very disappointed because I have waited for this battle for a long time and only getting to see it in a session play or solo instance would be very disappointing. But at this time it's still up in the air on how they will handle it.
    No,no and no... Based on that dev chat, there is nothing in the air. If there was a raid coming with HD, wouldn't they proudly announce it? For the first time they said they are just working on HD solo expansion and after that they may work on new instances. Some optimism is fine, but wearing pink glasses while jumping from cloud to cloud is not. Do you need to hear a word to word 'there are no instances coming with HD' to believe it? Since you didn't hear it, you are assuming there will be a raid. I'm afraid you will be disappointed.

    That quote IS about instances. I take it as you don't pay much attention to what is written. Why am I even explaining to you? There are tons of threads about HD and its lack of new raids. If you want to learn what's going on, check them out. Instead of denying the situation by demanding a word to word announcement or blaming it on other people for saying what it is...

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by choon_blaze View Post
    No,no and no... Based on that dev chat, there is nothing in the air. If there was a raid coming with HD, wouldn't they proudly announce it? For the first time they said they are just working on HD solo expansion and after that they may work on new instances. Some optimism is fine, but wearing pink glasses while jumping from cloud to cloud is not. Do you need to hear a word to word 'there are no instances coming with HD' to believe it? Since you didn't hear it, you are assuming there will be a raid. I'm afraid you will be disappointed.

    That quote IS about instances. I take it as you don't pay much attention to what is written. Why am I even explaining to you? There are tons of threads about HD and its lack of new raids. If you want to learn what's going on, check them out. Instead of denying the situation by demanding a word to word announcement or blaming it on other people for saying what it is...
    I don't know. To me they did seem to point there was going to be a raid, by saying they are working on the instance content. It adds to the suspense by not directly stating they have it in the works. Also Turbine doesn't normally announce features so far in advanced, even when the announce the actual expansion. You can say I have pink tinted glasses, but until I see one way or the other, I will not wildly state what might be coming with HD and what might not.

    The ton of threads about lack of raids with HD are just more speculation. I'm also not assuming there will or won't be a raid on release. I just want to see some actual confirmation that there will or won't be before I start questioning whether I should get HD or not. If the quote is about instances (but not raids), then that would be disappointing. If it's about Epic instances and sessions plays and not "normal" instances/raids, then that would be even more disappointing. But the quote is vague enough you can't really take it any one way or the other, considering this quote isn't that recent compared to the announcement of HD and since they even mention they are still prototyping it's possible they aren't even sure how they will deal with the actual Helms Deep area/battle.

    I'll continue taking the wait and see approach. We have 5 months probably before its released and until some official information is released I don't see the need to make wild accusations about what will or won't be in the expansion (upon release or afterwards). I do feel like there will be a raid eventually considering that is a major feature of MMOs, regardless of whether you are a hardcore raider or not (which I am not, however I still enjoy them for the epicness and scale, both of which were mostly lost with the Erebor raids). I was just trying to have a friendly discussion about it and I apologize if anything I said was taken in a negative fashion.

  15. #65
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    Instance clusters and raids are always part of expansion announcements. The Helm's Deep expansion announcement does not make any mention of a new instance cluster or raid. It is therefore logical to conclude that Helm's Deep does not have a new instance cluster or raid. Expect more public instances like what we saw with hytbold repeatables, and more session play.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000d123b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    I don't know. To me they did seem to point there was going to be a raid, by saying they are working on the instance content. It adds to the suspense by not directly stating they have it in the works. Also Turbine doesn't normally announce features so far in advanced, even when the announce the actual expansion. You can say I have pink tinted glasses, but until I see one way or the other, I will not wildly state what might be coming with HD and what might not.

    The ton of threads about lack of raids with HD are just more speculation. I'm also not assuming there will or won't be a raid on release. I just want to see some actual confirmation that there will or won't be before I start questioning whether I should get HD or not. If the quote is about instances (but not raids), then that would be disappointing. If it's about Epic instances and sessions plays and not "normal" instances/raids, then that would be even more disappointing. But the quote is vague enough you can't really take it any one way or the other, considering this quote isn't that recent compared to the announcement of HD and since they even mention they are still prototyping it's possible they aren't even sure how they will deal with the actual Helms Deep area/battle.

    I'll continue taking the wait and see approach. We have 5 months probably before its released and until some official information is released I don't see the need to make wild accusations about what will or won't be in the expansion (upon release or afterwards). I do feel like there will be a raid eventually considering that is a major feature of MMOs, regardless of whether you are a hardcore raider or not (which I am not, however I still enjoy them for the epicness and scale, both of which were mostly lost with the Erebor raids). I was just trying to have a friendly discussion about it and I apologize if anything I said was taken in a negative fashion.
    Yes people are speculating but one thing is clear, instanced content is not instance/raid. They would've said 'we are working on new instances' if that was the case.

    Hell, if there will be new instances/raids soon after HD's launch, (after I test them on Bullroarer and if they are not garbage like Erebor) I would consider buying HD. But if that takes too long, like I said other games will rise and Lotro will not see their old playerbase again...

    Best case scenario, let's say new IC is announced to launch in somewhere in 2014. But for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post it is unlikely. Even if it launches and it is somewhat decent, I don't think old players will pay $40(my prediction) for HD then some more money for IC. First, this terrible no lock,random loot system has to change. Second, IC must be fun and rewarding. Third, by the time it launches, old players shouldn't be digging deep on other games or they won't be coming back. They will probably change their minds and close the launcher during the huge update.

    You can say you are asking too much, but I'm not. Most other mmo games release these stuff without having us ask for them. Because they realize they need to keep their customers happy. Players can do without the game but the game can not do without its customers.

  17. #67
    it seems to me there is no reason to believe the next expansion will be anything different than the last two. If we go by recent history, the new 6 and 12 man raids won't be out until spring.

    Here's to hoping i'm wrong! *cheers!*

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Souku View Post
    Instance clusters and raids are always part of expansion announcements. The Helm's Deep expansion announcement does not make any mention of a new instance cluster or raid. It is therefore logical to conclude that Helm's Deep does not have a new instance cluster or raid. Expect more public instances like what we saw with hytbold repeatables, and more session play.
    Actually, I went back and looked at the preliminary announcements for Rise of Isengard and Rise of Rohan and didn't see them mention raids in those preliminary announcements. But I agree it's too early to say for sure one way or another. I'll admit I'm looking forward to Edler Scrolls but I feel it's unfair to LOTRO for people to be spreading negative rumors and depressing people when we don't have truly factual information. Let's give it some time, look for more news, see what's on Bullroarer when it's ready for testing and go from there.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuddler View Post
    Actually, I went back and looked at the preliminary announcements for Rise of Isengard and Rise of Rohan and didn't see them mention raids in those preliminary announcements.
    Thing is.. with RoR, we can't know if they were initially planning on including the instance cluster we have now with the expansion or not. I could have been the explosion of complaints that occurred that made them add in an instance cluster or they could have been extremely bad at their communication. Given the delay and quality of the latest cluster, it's hard not to think that the former theory might have some merit to it. But we really can't know for sure.

    With the way that statement was worded in the dev chat.. using "instanced content" (Hytbold has instance content you know...) and talking about once they've completed the Helm's Deep experience that then they'll look at whether they might make new stuff or revamp old stuff.. I don't feel confident about the future of Lotro's group content at all. It's already in a bad state. It would be great to be surprised and proved wrong, but personally I feel it's best to expect the worst so as not to be let down. :P
    Last edited by Lothirieth; May 07 2013 at 01:32 PM.
    [url]http://wanderingthroughdigitalworlds.wordpress.com/[/url]

  20. #70
    @WB/Turbine

    Do you hear us?

  21. #71
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    sad to say that as of this moment I'm probably less than 50/50 on whether I'll still be playing come Helm's Deep. I appreciate the work that they've done with scaled instances, its nice to revisit some of the old stuff, but the fact that they've butchered them into 5-minutes-or-less facerolls to cater to the ADD crowd combined with the face that there's hardly any *new* content kinda defeats the purpose. add to that the fact that they keep stealing stupid ideas from other games, from open tapping to remote looting and their shocking inability to predict, and just as shocking slowness to counter, the exploits these changes brought about, and this comically absurd loot system...there's just so little left of the game I fell in love with over 5 years ago.

    I may give ESO or Neverwinter a look, I don't know. I don't really see anything that will replace what LotRO used to be wrt to grouping. Also very much looking to Thief 4 next year. Maybe I'll be going the single player route.
    Last edited by tomiathon; May 07 2013 at 02:15 PM.

  22. #72
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    728
    Nope, planning to bail.

    For one... I've ridden this pony before. (see below). Two: The raids were pretty un-inspired this time around, the loot system is jacked up, and no raid locks. I can't believe it's going to improve any, as it's been downhill since OD.

    They'll up the level cap... By 10 levels instead of 5... for some reason, so that all of your 85 gear is mostly worthless. Then there will be some arbitrary solo-grind for gear, like Hytbold. While at the same time it'll be the season for skirmish raids. And then they'll "fix" the item drops in 6man's, so that you have to grind annuminas and GB again for the same gear you had at 85 but with better stats, rendering much of the skraid jewelry more or less obsolete...

    In february they'll "scale" tower of orthanc and Foundry, and release the new raid. It will consist of 2-3 lair raids, because they know that most of their real raiders quit the game and everyone else loves lair raids because they don't have to wipe on trash for 2 hours in some terrible pug group.

    Oh, and the thing you need to click in the next raid, for some raid mechanic... Yeah that will be broken, because Turbine.
    .
    85 (Captain, Champion, Guardian)

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    You can say I have pink tinted glasses, but until I see one way or the other, I will not wildly state what might be coming with HD and what might not.
    There's one problem though: Turbine has never announced content that is NOT going to be in the expansion. So we're going to have this discussion either until they announce there are raids in HD after all or until HD is released and we can find out for ourselves that there aren't any raids in there.
    Ingaras, lvl 75 Elven Hunter; and others...
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stever1388 View Post
    I don't know. To me they did seem to point there was going to be a raid, by saying they are working on the instance content. It adds to the suspense by not directly stating they have it in the works. Also Turbine doesn't normally announce features so far in advanced, even when the announce the actual expansion. You can say I have pink tinted glasses, but until I see one way or the other, I will not wildly state what might be coming with HD and what might not.
    I don't know if you've been actively playing since your forum join date, or if you were around pre-/post- RoI and RoR, but the last two expansions have made one thing perfectly clear: if it's not explicitly stated that it's in the expansion, it's not in the expansion.

    Turbine managed to trade on our hope for RoI (including allowing PvMPers to think that a proposed/promised new PvMP area was still coming long after it had been discarded), and did so to a lesser degree for RoR, but still managed to do so ("Turbine wouldn't release a 2nd expansion without an instance cluster, would it?").

    I respect that you're an optimistic person - I generally am as well. However, in the case of what to expect with Helm's Deep, I'm going to let experience and education trump optimism.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingaras View Post
    There's one problem though: Turbine has never announced content that is NOT going to be in the expansion. So we're going to have this discussion either until they announce there are raids in HD after all or until HD is released and we can find out for ourselves that there aren't any raids in there.
    Which is why I'm not stating (or don't really mean to state, making my points may seem like I'm stating) that HD will have an instance cluster and raid. But I'm also not stating that it won't. We just don't know. Until we do, it's all up in the air and anything could happen. Going from past trends, it will have an instance cluster and raid. Now whether that ships with HD or comes at a later point (like the Erebor cluster did), is an unknown as well. I also don't think the quote really gives any indication either way. The question was about scaled content, the answer was at best a teaser to get people talking, and is hardly definitive of whether there is instanced content, an instance cluster, or raid (or any combination of those).

    I don't know if you've been actively playing since your forum join date, or if you were around pre-/post- RoI and RoR, but the last two expansions have made one thing perfectly clear: if it's not explicitly stated that it's in the expansion, it's not in the expansion.

    Turbine managed to trade on our hope for RoI (including allowing PvMPers to think that a proposed/promised new PvMP area was still coming long after it had been discarded), and did so to a lesser degree for RoR, but still managed to do so ("Turbine wouldn't release a 2nd expansion without an instance cluster, would it?").

    I respect that you're an optimistic person - I generally am as well. However, in the case of what to expect with Helm's Deep, I'm going to let experience and education trump optimism.
    I've actually been around since beta, but my forum date doesn't really show it because I had changed accounts once (and I have two of them currently), and I've been mostly active since then.

    Setting aside the PvMP things, which they did announce that they were revamping and then went back on that and said they were not and now have no plans to do so, they actually don't always announce what is in the expansion and just because its not stated doesn't mean it won't be in there. In both the Isengard and Rohan announcements there is not indication at all that there is going to be an instance cluster or raid, yet both had them (eventually, I seem to recall Isengard had the cluster but lacked the raids until a bit after, but I could be mistaken. Rohan did eventually get all its cluster and raids, but took awhile).

    This isn't to say they didn't after the formal announcements make more informal announcements on the forums, via dev chats, fan websites, etc etc, but that would require more Googling than I can to do. Considering we're just two weeks out from the announcement and possibly as much as five months til the actual release, I don't feel the lack of information is completely unfounded. Of course, I also feel like reading so many times prior to Isengard and Rohan that we lacked the information needed to make an informed decision about a pre-purchase. So I guess we'll see if that trend continues, but I feel we'll know whether there will or won't be an instance cluster and raid for HD prior to having to make the decision of whether we want to pre-order.

    Optimists say the glass is half full, pessimists say the glass is half empty, and realists say what is in the glass? I'm the third one. I do lean optimistic, and I'm also a huge Lord of the Rings fan in general, plus not a huge hard core raider (though I do raid, and my alliance is currently working through BFE T2CM, as we have already completed the easiest raid challenge in Smaug), so I'm more easily satisfied than most. But currently, I'm taking a wait and see approach.

 

 
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