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  1. #1

    What are raiders planning to do for the next 6 months?

    So we know U11 doesn't contain any group content and U12 will come with a class revamp and an extra 10 levels so what are the raiders out there and raiding kinships planning for the next 6 months? We are noticing diminishing numbers, people missing raids, struggling to get 12 together e.t.c. already and fear it will only get worse.

    There is no point grinding for loot as there is nothing planned to use it for. The U11 loot looks disappointing so far, plus even if it was amazing it still would be worthless come U12. All raiders, infact most players currently at cap, will be stupidly OP for the U11 content with most mobs reportedly dying in 3-4 hits.

    Most good raiding kinships will have completed and got bored of Flight T2, Erebor T2 and Smaug T2C with the top kins also having done Erebor T2C. Once done once or twice they hold little replayability. The other scaled raids hold little interest too. Maybe when they sort Flight Challenge out there might be something to do for a couple of nights but most likely it will go the other way and be too easy.

    So no group content, no loot to aim for and no chance of any change for 6 months.

    I know soloers will point to completing all deeds, quests, virtues e.t.c. but I'm aiming this thread mainly toward raiders.

  2. #2
    Several of my kin members are quitting/thinking of quitting. I too am considering changing game to one with more/better endgame raiding, despite the fact I love Lord of the Rings (one of the few reasons I am still here at the moment). We still manage to get raids most days - ironically for Orthanc and Ost Dunhoth/Barad Guldur as opposed to these trash Erebor raids - only Flight Challenge mode remains to be completed for my kin and interest in attempting it is incredibly low.

    I very highly doubt I will pre-order, or even buy, Helm's Deep. RoR sucked out the rest of my hope for any significant attention being paid to raiders and also ruined PvP from my point of view (as a primarily solo PvPer) by making it a zergfest. If the proposed U11 change to KB deeds goes through then I do not think I will play for long after U11, let alone Helm's Deep.

  3. #3
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    We're running content - some older stuff and new stuff to help folks with gearing. U12 is still a good 6 months off so it doesn't hurt to work on gearing if you aren't geared to the teeth already.

    I'm also leveling alts - since there is little new content and raiding is some what low key right now it is the perfect time to level another toon. That way when level cap does increase I'll have a couple toons to run through and level.

    To each their own though - if you enjoy the raiding and especially new raids most you'll just have to bide your time or take a breather I guess. I was actually kind of hoping for no level cap increase until next year so I could level more toons.
    At home on Nimrodel for 4 years.
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  4. #4
    If the proposed U11 change to KB deeds goes through then I do not think I will play for long after U11, let alone Helm's Deep.
    Hmm where are these proposed changes to be seen?
    Is it just some player asking for something?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilksie View Post
    So we know U11 doesn't contain any group content and U12 will come with a class revamp and an extra 10 levels so what are the raiders out there and raiding kinships planning for the next 6 months? We are noticing diminishing numbers, people missing raids, struggling to get 12 together e.t.c. already and fear it will only get worse.

    There is no point grinding for loot as there is nothing planned to use it for. The U11 loot looks disappointing so far, plus even if it was amazing it still would be worthless come U12. All raiders, infact most players currently at cap, will be stupidly OP for the U11 content with most mobs reportedly dying in 3-4 hits.

    Most good raiding kinships will have completed and got bored of Flight T2, Erebor T2 and Smaug T2C with the top kins also having done Erebor T2C. Once done once or twice they hold little replayability. The other scaled raids hold little interest too. Maybe when they sort Flight Challenge out there might be something to do for a couple of nights but most likely it will go the other way and be too easy.

    So no group content, no loot to aim for and no chance of any change for 6 months.

    I know soloers will point to completing all deeds, quests, virtues e.t.c. but I'm aiming this thread mainly toward raiders.

    I like to raid... everyday. Does that make me a hardcore raider?.Well the kin im in has 8-10 lvl 85's on every night.but the majority of them haven't completed any of those three instances/raids you named on t2 more than a few times and more than likely not with each other. I can count on one hand how many times i have completed these three on t2 and have some fingers left. And with that said I haven't completed once Foundry,Draigoch,ToO... on t1 let alone t2 or t2c. Only completed vile maw once on t1 and will never go back because how bad it was for me.

    So when you say top kins that mean 1-3 out of 100 or 1-20 out of 100 or somewhere in between? I would suggest that only a few kins ever beat these on t2 let alone t2c, and there will be lots to do. I know that having missed those 3 raids that i have tried to do are by the day getting harder and harder to find full groups that can complete these. I have no doubt that they are never going to be completed by some and thats a shame.

    My point is that for every person that has been lucky to steamroll thru this content there are 10 or more that will never complete it. I have in the 3 raids i mention gone a collective 1 for 165 attempts.(completed the Fire/Frost wing once)Now having failed in 164 out of 165 attempts I can see how hard it is to do the raids, frustrating to the point of pulling out your hair. but when you have to rely on 11 others to perform perfectly there will be a lot of failure.

  6. #6
    Noldor plans to finish out the T2C on the current raids and then is closing its doors to raiding and moving to other games (Rift primarily it appears). We'll be a casual kin from there on out unless some significant changes are made to demonstrate that raiding is seen as important to the game and other fixes are made (e.g., fixing the lag, correcting the loot system, etc...). So we won't be purchasing Helm's Deep unless through earned TP's (or I suppose when later discounted). Of course T2C for Flight remains elusive to all kins so we might still be raiding for a while.

    PS - to the above poster -- it sounds like you have the characteristics of the hardcore raider without sufficient complimentary partners. I'd suggest doing something I did years ago and joining a progression focused raiding kin - bring those kinmates along that are interested. When people post something about "raiders" they are usually intending it for those that are progression focused -- meaning a kin that seeks to beat any and all content on the hardest difficulty levels (on level - meaning we have to complete the current challenges before the lvl increase).
    Last edited by garetjax8; May 02 2013 at 10:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    Raid interest in my kin is low as well.
    We still have flight t2c to do , but we doubt it's possible.

    Personally , i've done pretty much all deeds in the game ( apart from Ettens and GB survival ), so i just decided to turn off quest helper and roll a new toon with XP disabler. I am still level 15 , but i am doing all content available on level.It's fun :-)
    A new game if you do everything , including fs quests , without any game support.. As it once was back in SoA T_T
    I also like hunting rare mobs with my main.

    I really doubt i will even touch U11 when it arrives on live. There is info about a grind reputation fanction ( aka Hytbold 2.0 ) and of course , as we already now , the whole update is solo career. A few new decent gear items to work for i guess , but to use them ON WHAT ??????????????????????

    If helm's deep is just another solo career expansion , similar to RoR or even worse , then i am leaving for elder scrolls online when it finally arrives..

    Wish i had the patience for a new game with a lore that i have no idea about...
    I would have left already.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilksie View Post
    So we know U11 doesn't contain any group content and U12 will come with a class revamp and an extra 10 levels so what are the raiders out there and raiding kinships planning for the next 6 months? We are noticing diminishing numbers, people missing raids, struggling to get 12 together e.t.c. already and fear it will only get worse.

    There is no point grinding for loot as there is nothing planned to use it for. The U11 loot looks disappointing so far, plus even if it was amazing it still would be worthless come U12. All raiders, infact most players currently at cap, will be stupidly OP for the U11 content with most mobs reportedly dying in 3-4 hits.

    Most good raiding kinships will have completed and got bored of Flight T2, Erebor T2 and Smaug T2C with the top kins also having done Erebor T2C. Once done once or twice they hold little replayability. The other scaled raids hold little interest too. Maybe when they sort Flight Challenge out there might be something to do for a couple of nights but most likely it will go the other way and be too easy.

    So no group content, no loot to aim for and no chance of any change for 6 months.

    I know soloers will point to completing all deeds, quests, virtues e.t.c. but I'm aiming this thread mainly toward raiders.

    T2c's outside LM are being pugged sadly enough. Much as i love the game in dec 2011 i took a year away and might do so again. Generally pvp is my end game and ive started to loathe the changes and the ability to pay2win.

    Raiders are bored and the tired remark of alts at this stage is just that, tired. Alts are a great time sink but alts are the same reason raiders are walking away, alts and end game are the same repetition of content no matter how you try to church it up.

    Hardcore(and not so hardcore) are going the way of the dinosaur. Im gonna go off topic but still be on the topic to shed light to this. The casual gamer begged and pleaded and whined and moaned and complained about radiance gear gating. The two biggest I saw were I dont have time to get the gear to get in the raids and why should raiders have better gear than I?
    Ok so, radiance was removed and so was the old barter system of 1 barter item guranteed drop in every run to medallions from those same runs until you have enough to buy pieces. GS got more used up than AN on a greenie creep day. The new run stuff till you have enough system has been in play since then. But here his the kicker to all of it. The i dont have time casual crowd has had their voices heard! But no, they havent. You've been duped. Id have to log in to get for sure numbers on the gear, but here goes.


    Erebor t1 set, i know pieces vary in seal cost from 31-92 in cost so lets go 4@31 and 2@92(since im certain the highest pieces are the last two@ 92 thats 308 seals to gear out. Ok stay with me. The fastest run to acquire seals is Sambrog at roughly 5 minutes with a decent group at 4 seals a run. That is 77 sambrog runs times 5 minutes a run. That is 6 hours of playtime(mind you thats purely doing the run not waiting to get people bios drinks disconnect w/e the issue). Most of the old system 6 mans took 10-20 minutes to do and a guranteed item piece, run with the same 6, six times. Bam geared out in 1/4 of the time.

    Now lets add on top of all that the first ages. 488 seals for t1 piece. Now smaug is ~15-20 minutes, Erebor ~4 minutes and flight 10 minutes ok so youve gotten a half hour or so there to get your unlocks to barter, moving on. 488 seals at 4 per sambrog run(remember its the quickest) is 122 runs times 5 minutes is a lil over 10 hours so lets say 10.5 with doing the raids for unlock. And think thats JUST for one li, now lets double it! 21 hours for lis 6 hours for gear. 27 hours of pure nothing but actual doing the runs time.

    The point? The system isnt better. Its not EASIER on the casual i dont have time to get gear to do runs crowd, youve been duped. A slight of hand and you think its a ton better but when you crunch it all down its gotten worse. So thats what raiders will do for a couple weeks till geared out, maybe a little moors action and maybe start an alt and get bored.

    So much content that kept people busy before is going to waste and replaced with not content to keep busy but a grind to keep people here till the next one comes out.

    ./off my soapbox now

    P.S wilksie Your quote, if i never know anything else about you, that quote outs you numer uno in my book. I hate the loose has become somehow the standard and accepted spelling of lose, really grinds my gears.
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  9. #9
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    Mere pretty much said it all for myself. The games going downhill quickly.

    Ill probably quit and play GW2 or ESO.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Merebrand View Post
    ....
    I very highly doubt I will pre-order, or even buy, Helm's Deep. RoR sucked out the rest of my hope for any significant attention being paid to raiders and also ruined PvP from my point of view (as a primarily solo PvPer) by making it a zergfest. If the proposed U11 change to KB deeds goes through then I do not think I will play for long after U11, let alone Helm's Deep.
    ^^ This, with the exception of the PVP part because I rarely bother with it. Our group still has enough to raid on most raid nights, but the thought of running the same "less than exciting" raids over and over for the next 6 months has me yawning already. I'm not sure even Chance Thomas could get me to buy more content at this point.

    When the expansion was announced my first thought was, I'm not going to make it to Helms Deep. Not with the current trend away from serious raiding and the ridiculous loot setup, and especially with little or no hope of any interesting end game content for people that actually enjoy grouping.

    Because I do love Middle Earth and the associated lore, I'll stick it out for a while and see what happens but right now I'm ripe for a new MMO with the promise of some decent end game.

  11. #11
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    I am not sure why raiders would go to Elder Scrolls Online considering that game is currently not planning on even having raiding at all. I have seen videos of beta game-play and honestly the game looks very underwhelming.

    For those looking for a lot of challenging end-game PvE content, it seems your options are limited to WoW and Rift at this point (both of which are games that still follow a subscription model). SWTOR has end-game raiding but it tends to be low difficulty (raids are almost always beaten immediately after they are released). Just not many options out there.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by idontcare789 View Post
    Hardcore(and not so hardcore) are going the way of the dinosaur. Im gonna go off topic but still be on the topic to shed light to this.
    Quite correct, and for sound business reasons. With more games out there and games costing *much* more to produce (SWTOR cost over $200 million to bring to market, didn't it?) coupled with an aging (on average) gaming population, the only way to pull in enough money to make a game viable is to broaden the appeal even if that costs the company some of the smaller groups of gamers.

    The net effect is what the "hard core" gamers call the "dumbing down" of games (and not just LotRO). Game companies that don't ease off the hard core styles are going to go under because there simply isn't enough money in catering to the hard core.

    The days of only 2 or 3 "AAA" class games are long gone, and many of the hard core rules with them.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Quite correct, and for sound business reasons. With more games out there and games costing *much* more to produce (SWTOR cost over $200 million to bring to market, didn't it?) coupled with an aging (on average) gaming population, the only way to pull in enough money to make a game viable is to broaden the appeal even if that costs the company some of the smaller groups of gamers.

    The net effect is what the "hard core" gamers call the "dumbing down" of games (and not just LotRO). Game companies that don't ease off the hard core styles are going to go under because there simply isn't enough money in catering to the hard core.

    The days of only 2 or 3 "AAA" class games are long gone, and many of the hard core rules with them.
    That does unfortunately seem to be the case.

    I'm wondering now if there are enough "hard core" raiders disillusioned with their respective MMO's to support at least one company somewhere that has the foresight to cater to them by pushing the hard core angle.

    I for one am more than willing to pay a regular subscription fee for a company willing to take that risk. But are there still enough others willing to do the same to make it a viable business model?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souku View Post
    I am not sure why raiders would go to Elder Scrolls Online considering that game is currently not planning on even having raiding at all. I have seen videos of beta game-play and honestly the game looks very underwhelming.

    For those looking for a lot of challenging end-game PvE content, it seems your options are limited to WoW and Rift at this point (both of which are games that still follow a subscription model). SWTOR has end-game raiding but it tends to be low difficulty (raids are almost always beaten immediately after they are released). Just not many options out there.
    I'm not sure about that one. Swtor raids have three difficulty levels. story mode, hard mode, nightmare mode. The story mode is indeed beaten fast, it is made for less hardcore ones in order for them to still see the content. Nightmare mode is another story.

  15. #15
    To the OP I know myself and My Kinnies are running daily 3-12 mans for gear and we all have alts to level plus deeds to grind on those alts.

    Just last night we had 10 kinnies deed grinding in moria. All level 85, just running back to get those last few trolls ore morravals ect.
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  16. #16
    The more accurate question is "what are raiders going to do for the next 9-12 months?" There are no announced raids with HD and raiders generally have their main toon leveled within a short time period. And then what? Grind the same instances to get level 95 versions of the current level 85 gear?

    Raiding kins will see their numbers wither away, or the complete departure such as we see with Noldor of Arkenstone (GL guys, hope you find a game in which you can challenge yourselves).

    Turbine will then have a casual game for which they will not need to develop anything other than landscape quests and festivals; grind is the new end game rather than compelling, challenging content. Think of the money they will save!

    Maybe there's someone at Turbine who will read this thread and decide that maybe they can throw a bone to the grouping/raiding community, but by the time it is ready for deployment it will be too late, too many kins will have lost their critical mass. At that point I don't know if people wanting to do progression raids can come together on a server nor if they even would want to.

  17. #17
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    I've been playing Fallout 3 about two hours a day for the last 6 weeks. When I saw the title in your thread the first raiders I thought of were the bandits in that game. *sigh*
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namesse View Post
    Raiding kins will see their numbers wither away, or the complete departure such as we see with Noldor of Arkenstone (GL guys, hope you find a game in which you can challenge yourselves).
    There should be a thread to mark the passing of the endgame kinships that are currently folding, or have recently folded, due to lack of quality endgame.

  19. #19
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    I'll be squeezing in what quality time I can with my in-game friends, raiding when we can actually get 12 people to log in, running around the world feeling nostalgic, and then shortly before Helm's Deep, finding interesting ways to give away all my stuff (trivia, chicken races, games).

    And I'm probably enough of an addict that I'll grind the 34 days for Wildermore rep x 9 characters before going cold turkey.

    Was a nice run, LOTRO.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  20. #20
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    Found none of the raid enjoyable honestly ... keep your weird future setting and I'll keep my marks, thank you

    Right now only login in to pay upkeep and hope the next festival or update will come soon(tm)

  21. #21
    I was primarily a raider during the BG-to-OD drought. No new raid content for almost 15 months! It was nasty, but most of the raiding community held on back then. There was still hope for good things to happen. As far as I am concerned, it did happen. I still think Ost Dunhoth is the greatest raid and ITA the greatest instance cluster they have ever conjured.

    That was arguably the last time I felt raid content saw proper attention by the developers. I keep bringing up the quality of exchange that happened on Bullroarer regarding OD. It's because you hardly see that kind of constructive conversation with the developers in this game. Not just for raiding, but for any kind of game related issue. The testers did their best test. Jwbarry did his best to communicate. The amount of fixes and balancing changes done to the boss fights during that period was amazing. The raid entered Bullroarer as a rough gem and left as a diamond.

    I digress, as always. I should stop typing posts longer than 2 paragraphs.

    I no longer raid. Not since Draigoch. But I still have that "raider" mentality. I still empathize. There was a time I waited for well over 6 months. That gamble paid off. Considering the current state of the game, could I wait for 6 months now? I really doubt it. Rise of Isengard was a disappointment in terms of how Turbine approached raid content. Riders of Rohan has been a disaster. Helm's Deep? I would be lying if I said the trend looks promising. I'd be surprised if it even launches with a raid.

  22. #22
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    I plan on playing Neverwinter. I'd get TP for the new area and some of the Fornost/ITA/Rohan clusters, but I don't care at this point. I doubt I'd play enough to cover the $25 cost... Maybe if HD turns out to be good...
    That reminds me... I need to play FE: Awakening more to cover the cost of ordering the FE 3DS just for that...
    Meh.

  23. #23
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    - Reinstall old games (Dragon Age 2, Fallout 3, etc)
    - Start bookmarking the same google searches: "new mmos", "best mmos", etc.
    - Level yet another alt through Moria
    - Stop paying the slightest bit of attention to gear stats
    - Try out SWTOR free-to-play
    - Realize I havent logged into two of 85 toons in over 45 days

    Oh wait, you asked what we are planning on doing. That's what I have already been doing.

    Game over, unfortunately.

  24. #24
    Well, the players that will leave will be replaced by solo players that will return for U11 since the last 2 content patches have been more or less group/raid content so it balances out in the end.

  25. #25
    Retire permanently and take my talents to RIFT.

 

 
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