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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Western USA
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    ...
    All in all, the initial launch was pretty dismal and, so far as I can tell, most people gave up on using it. With the later merger of selection capability that the previous join panel had, the habit of pre-forming groups and only *then* using the finder continued.
    ...Reinforcing the stated purpose of the tool as an Instance finder, not a Group finder.

    That fits with my own observations as well.

    And yeah, I agree, PUG's don't suck in and of themselves. The first time I tried Watcher was in a PUG, (average level was 68) and while 3/4 of the group was learning the instance (myself included), we did end up beating it after about 8 tries...
    Last edited by LotRO-Chris; May 03 2013 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    IF does not work as it could - to actually benefit the players and speed up group formation.

    1- We must see groups being formed, inspect each and every player in the group - NO ANONYMOUS

    2- When we put a search/ group formation we should have a place to describe what we are looking for.

    3- The bonus should apply to all loot: +50 currency and +50% drop chance.

    We already have in LOTRO 2 things that work as IF should work- LFF in social panel actually shows what players in the area are looking for help in quests, sortable by quests and classes/levels. And AH, that has been working fine for years,

  3. #28
    Due to level spread of participants, you can end up doing low level mobs and getting dramatically reduced XP.

    XP for level 45 lieutenant (me level 41) = 232 XP
    XP for level 38ish lieutenant = 33 XP.

    One is literally 7x higher than the other. Over-level skirmishes are only available through the Specific tab on the IF, which doesn't partner you with random queuers.
    Last edited by -CasualGamer-; Jun 25 2013 at 06:56 PM.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    .....by introducing a ridiculously good bonus reward for random groups......
    Why don't they use additional seals as an incentive, as you have to grind these to get 1st age stuff, unless you are lucky to get a symbol drop from raid. So the more random instance the more seals you get say 10 seals, but if its specific instance you are after you get 3 additional seals, this way more people will use for seal grinding and everyone will be happy.

    Also no additional seals if you have a group or part group say above 3 using the instance finder to stop abuse of the system.

  5. #30
    One facet that I feel hasn't been touched upon enough is that the population is divided over a level spread that means the chance of finding fellowships using the instance finder within a reasonable amount of time is small. In kinchat the question gets asked if the instance finder ever becomes usable and I have to say that it becomes more useful as the level approaches 85.

    I keep a few characters at specific levels to help out with kinsmen but sometimes finding a third takes too long and we bring in a higher level without armor and wielding a butterknife/low level weapon (would much rather that high levels would get scaled down and open up the level restrictions in the instance finder).
    Last edited by WhimsicalPacifist; Jun 28 2013 at 04:12 PM.
    Brynhildn Mistress Over Fear
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  6. #31
    If it isn't meant for putting together groups then why pray tell would it require one to choose roles? Just admit turbine failed at their intended vision, but succeeded in creating a decent enough tool that still had enough value to leave in game.

    The pedantic hoops some people jump through to justify that which really needs no justification is amusing.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    68
    It simply can't be used to form PUG what can finish randomly picked 6-man instance. Sure trollbine has done much to that it could be possible, I don't remember what patch it was when they did huge nerf and most of the 6-man and 3-man instances are now possible to finish almost all kind of groups. Example when SG was scaled to lvl85, tier 2 was HARD, it was harder than it never was at lvl65. At lvl65 we did SG challenge with 4 hunters, RK and cappy. One hunter was "Tanking". After scale I had some memories from SG and I was thinking that "I take my warden, go in and see what happens". Well I did and even with DC, NS etc... I was dead in under 30sec. After nerf I went again in and did solo it to 1st boss and took him down to 50k or something not sure. Anyway I did live quite some time even when whole room was in fire. Another good example of huge nerf is when we 3-manned (warden, champ and cappy) 12-man skirmish. Anyway my point is that there IS instances where you don't need healer, there IS instances where you don't need tank, there is instances where you don't need neighter and there IS instances where you need one of them or both of them or it will be too hard for PUG's. So even that most of the instances are joke (way too easy even with challenge) there still is few instances what requires working group. And sorry that I haven't used line changes, for some reason "enter" is not working on this forum with my IE10, dunno if it's just me or all IE10 issue.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,456
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    Ohh and one more thing i tottaly forgot, it would need to be cross server.
    One of the worst things with the Dungeon Finder in WoW is that it's cross realm. Just like people think they can misbehave here on the forums because they're "anonymous" they misbehave in random dungeons because they know they'll never have to stumble over those they've shared a random dungeon with.

    Another issue is that player need/intent is not included in the selection process. Mister "I need to run instance space X because I've got quests in there" is grouped with Miss "I'm on my 27:th cup of coffee and just want to grind this instance another 10 times so I can get my armour". MrSlowpoke asks the group to slow down so he can complete his quests (which also requires killing a few "extra" enemies) while MissCaffine goes into an uproar over the two extra minutes it'll add to the run-time. Given it's MrSlowpoke's first time there (he did say so in chat at the start) he's not aware of the finer details of the fight and gets a tough-lashing from MissCaffine for not knowing that it's his job as the ranged DPS (taking 30 seconds to explain would add to the run-time) to nuke the add that comes in after 1m30s.

    Try running Heroic dungeons in WoW and count the number of times you get a group consisting of "hut hut hut hurry up I want my 80 VP and the 463 item drops" members and compare it to the number of times you get into a group with people who say "wow, this place is really neat! let's explore". LFR is even worse. The raids are so nerfed that no-one needs to consider anything but the one-shot mechanics. Even with 75% of the group dead it's still possible to complete most encounters. And, because it's such a faceroll, no-one ever bothers to learn the mechanics. A LFR group is probably the most repelling thing there is in WoW but you "have to" do them to get reputation to unlock the good gear.

    All is not bad though! There are many players that make using these "finders" into a pleasant experience. The trick is just to get into a group with at least 50% nice people Making it cross server would expand the pool of available players and should, in theory at least, reduce the queue times.
    [I]A small cog in a big machine.
    [/I]
    Life has no "Undo" button, only "I'm sorry". Thinking before doing is a good thing.

  9. #34
    Another issue for IF I personally have:

    I have all classes at cap except for 1 (just 3 more lvls to go ).
    WHICH one do I take to enter in IF? I don't care about completing
    everything on every char, I just feel the need to bring the right, needed
    char to the right fight. That is possible in GLFF, by asking for specific
    classes, so I can log the char that is needed.
    Also I can drop doing whatever I'm doing because a friend of mine has
    set up a PuG, but he'd need a tank or a healer and cannot start.
    When he asks in Global: I need this or that, I'll say: okay, I'll drop what
    I'm doing and I'll relog to help you out. Not because I want to do anything,
    but because he/she is a friend and I want to HELP.
    With IF you will never know...

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven-EU View Post
    One of the worst things with the Dungeon Finder in WoW is that it's cross realm. Just like people think they can misbehave here on the forums because they're "anonymous" they misbehave in random dungeons because they know they'll never have to stumble over those they've shared a random dungeon with.
    ...
    The trick is just to get into a group with at least 50% nice people Making it cross server would expand the pool of available players and should, in theory at least, reduce the queue times.
    I wonder just how much of the queue time could be reduced by incentivizing 'Random Groups' in addition to, or instead of 'Random Instance'

    I know that after seeing duplicate golds drop that I have no use for, while others are still working hard to get their first gold, is frustrating. I'd much rather group with 'random' players and maybe meet someone new than do 'random content' that I'm sick of or don't want anything from.

    The problem with queue systems is they need a critical mass of users queuing to join NOT full groups, not 'full groups' queueing up to let it pick content. =)
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  11. #36
    Personally, I much preferred WoW's cross-realm groups. Sure, you would run into some jerks from time to time, but at least you could reasonably expect to get into a group in a matter of minutes (or seconds if you played a healer or tank). You also had a cross-realm ignore list so you could always add the jerk to that list and never see them again. If someone did drop out, you'd get a new player in a few seconds so it was no big deal.

    Random grouping is only effective if there are enough people looking for a random group at the same time you are. On a single server, that's only likely to happen during prime time -- if then. Cross-realm grouping would significantly add to the pool of possible players wanting to group at the same time you are. I don't see how random grouping will ever reach critical mass and be effective until it becomes cross-server.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    3
    I for one use it a lot

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    417

    Smile

    I really like to sit around waiting for hours ! Way to go lol

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,846
    Quote Originally Posted by a99barnsey View Post
    The instance finder seems like a pretty well designed tool. Why does it seem like most people ignore it?
    Because:

    1) people who group have left the game

    2) no incentive to use it

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by a99barnsey View Post
    The instance finder seems like a pretty well designed tool. Why does it seem like most people ignore it?
    Because it's not well-designed. It's awful at forming groups. Back when people were using it - it was not uncommon for me to find myself in fellowships full of nothing but dps. It didn't even attempt to create a balanced group. It's a shame too, because this game could really benefit from having a decent LFG tool.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven-EU View Post
    One of the worst things with the Dungeon Finder in WoW is that it's cross realm. Just like people think they can misbehave here on the forums because they're "anonymous" they misbehave in random dungeons because they know they'll never have to stumble over those they've shared a random dungeon with.
    Just because someone is on the same realm as you doesn't mean they are going to behave. There are jerks on every server, and they don't care if they see you again or not. Jerks will be jerks regardless. So may as well have the faster queue times.

  17. #42
    2 good reasons why nobody use instance finder...
    1. many player skirm to lvl up fast- instance finder group you up with lower lvl player (up to 9 lvls) cut down your xp very hard
    2. if you use lff you can choose the player use instance finder advanced select how many player you are (duo,3man,6man) and get the ---SAME BONUS--- so there is no reason to wait for a random underlvled cutting your xp down group

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Holland
    Posts
    1,044
    the only reason why i use the if is for the bonus you get... so i actually don't use it do group up

 

 
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