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  1. #1

    The Core of the Issue: Raid Locks

    So the other night, me and a couple of my kin mates were doing some semi pug BfE runs, in the ongoing endless search of gold items. We were in our kin Mumble to try and help with the boredom, and we were talking about the state of the current endgame, and the reason why so many people are not happy with it. I've read alot of reasons why people are unhappy, and one thing i've not seen mentioned, is the removal of locks on instances from the game(if this has been posted about somewhere else, I apologise and ask that you point me to where it has been discussed).

    The fact that we CAN run the same instances over and over again, means they HAVE to make the drop rates so low, otherwise we would all have everything we would want within a day or two, and we would then complain that there is nothing to do. This is just an observation of mine, and I would be very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on it.


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    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000003b8a/01007/signature.png]Nwryan[/charsig]

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    It's a mess mate. A total mess.

    Turbine needs a way to add duration to the content it delivers.

    Now , in the past , we used to have locks to do that , now we have loot chances.
    It's simple as that.

    I don't think we will ever have both the absense of locks and decent loot chances.

    Personally , i always hated locks , but this ?

    I'd rather go back.

    At the same time , removing locks and sharing loot tables between t1 and t2 raids , makes t2 of lesser importance.
    I don't care if the 'loot-chance' is higher at t2 ( if the devs didnt say that themselves i would never believe it )
    the fact remains , that time and effort wise , t1 raids will always be the way to go if you are after a specific drop.
    That sucks!
    I got all the items i am after on tier 1 runs , even if i do a lot of t2.
    On the other hand , they DID remove first agers from t1 , thus giving tier 2 runs some value but i think it was too late.
    Did they learn from that ? NO , they didn't , they will do exactly the same next time.I am sure of it.
    In some issues , Turbine is hopeless and history proves it , just look at what happened since RoR arrived.
    (Durchest farm , nerfed t1 Bg , BoE farm , nerfed t1 erebor raids etc )

    The whole system just doesnt work , and it makes little sense.

    No locks will always cause people that are after specific items to grind the easiest instance in the easiest possible way.
    It is simply the best way to get most chests possible , which equals to higher chances.

    We need huge changes.

    The best i can think of , without designing the whole raid system from scratch is :

    1) T1 drops purple items , keep the current chance on gold items.
    2) T2 drops teal items , raise the chance for gold items significantly on challenge chest.
    Example : keep current chance on t2 chest , but at least 5% chance on challenge chest.
    3) T1 drops second ages.
    4) T2 drops first ages.
    3 and 4 we do have it now , but i'd like that to be the way to go from the START , not months after raids launch...........

    Their is another way to go , and that is separate loot tables between t1 and t2 raids , but i have faced the fact that this will never happen again.
    Last edited by BotLike; Apr 29 2013 at 06:34 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    824
    I agree lack of locks does make determining what the drop rates should be very difficult, as the devs pretty much have to guess how many times a player will do a run in a week and go from there. With locks they know exactly how many times a toon can do a run so drop rates can be much more precise.

    The issue is that for some reason if a space scales it simply cannot have locks, it's also why when larger runs are made to scale they end up being split into wings. A similar though less frustrating fact is that unique items can't scale either, like earings etc.

    I would like to see locks reworked so farming is reduced and longer more interesting raids released.
    All posts to be taken with a pinch of tasty salt.... preferably rubbed on a Tater

  4. #4
    i totally agree to your posts.
    except one thing, matalan.
    Quote Originally Posted by matalan View Post
    The issue is that for some reason if a space scales it simply cannot have locks, it's also why when larger runs are made to scale they end up being split into wings.
    what about skirmshraids? they have locks. you can only do them once per week to get seals. yes its bound to quests but its still possible. no one ever grinds skraids, as far i have seen.
    thing to work on then is to implement the loottable for that. but it has been working for non remote loot before. wouldnt be such a hard work to find out that codes from the past

    Quote Originally Posted by matalan View Post
    I would like to see locks reworked so farming is reduced and longer more interesting raids released.
    i totally agree to that!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b2250000000c74fa/signature.png]Nellinda[/charsig]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    I don't want to see the old content-locks coming back, though I agree that there needs to be a mechanic to discourage farming. The mentioned skirm raid loot-locks are a good start, though there is certainly room for improvement.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    824
    Quote Originally Posted by ehil View Post
    i totally agree to your posts.
    except one thing, matalan.


    what about skirmshraids? they have locks. you can only do them once per week to get seals. yes its bound to quests but its still possible. no one ever grinds skraids, as far i have seen.
    thing to work on then is to implement the loottable for that. but it has been working for non remote loot before. wouldnt be such a hard work to find out that codes from the past


    i totally agree to that!

    Yup! Agreed! I thought about that a little after posting. Skraids do have a lock system, IE you get given a special RAID quest which only bestowes once a week. I think that is what I mean by re-working the lock system, as clearly there are options to do it slightly differently.

    It's a balancing act I've been watching for quite some time - locks vs no locks, random loot chance vs earned cluster currency.

    Both sides have pros and cons, it's a tough one, but at the moment with no locks and random loot - runs don't feel 'special', "oh goody locks have reset on such and such, lets go run it for this weeks goodies".... don't get that anymore. Or "yay Ive earned enough sigil fragments and gotten a special boss drop to barter for XYZ", again dont get that at the moment

    Just my 2 cents so to speak!
    All posts to be taken with a pinch of tasty salt.... preferably rubbed on a Tater

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    530
    i would much rather have locks and a decent drop rate than feel compelled to farm something over and over again. i do think it would be better to have loot locks instead of instance locks, so that somebody can help others complete content even after they have done it during that lock period.
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  8. #8
    Totally agree. Locks are better for everyone. The current system is the "raid till you drop" method, which makes instances more about farming and less about having fun.

    Add bi- or tri-weekly locks, and slightly increase the drop rate for gold items.
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  9. #9
    Why everyone is assuming if that they raise loot % and they keep locks as they are now, people will get bored cause they have everything and nothing more to do?... since I haven't seen it with my own eyes I prefer to not do this kind of assumptions. What is Real is that people is getting bored cause wasting lots of time to get an item and it never comes, either with locks or without them. And thats a fact.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Souku View Post
    i would much rather have locks and a decent drop rate than feel compelled to farm something over and over again. i do think it would be better to have loot locks instead of instance locks, so that somebody can help others complete content even after they have done it during that lock period.
    I completely agree with this statement. I have one question and one suggestion tho.

    Suggestion: Make some of the raids loot lock quests have bi-weekly resets. Skirm riads for stuff that is Bind on Acquire. Since the items from OD, BG Erebor is all Bind on Equip now they should stay weekly Loot Locks.

    My one question tho is how the loot lock quest would work for things that have T1 and T2. For example if someone were to run it on T1 first (and therefore have a lower drop chance of some of the items) and they completed the raid/quest so were locked out of receiving loot, what if they ran a T2 run before the reset? Would they get another quest and be able to receive loot again? If both tiers have a separate quest then people could complete T1 and T2 and have a double chance for loot. But then if T1 and T2 share a quest then (some) people would not want to run on T1 at all because of the lower drop chance. I guess this could be solved by having guaranteed drop chances on each tier instead of the random drop chance and also by keeping the challenge quest separate to T2 only and having that reward the most seals while T1 only rewards lesser amounts of seals.

    EDIT:

    After thinking about it a bit more I thought of a couple other issues. Keeping loot BoE would make the loot locks irrelevant, so all the loot would have to be bind on acquire or bound to account. I think the best way would be to keep the raid locks so that each toon can do it once(or twice) per week and also keep the loot BoE.

    I'm very interested in seeing other ways to improve the loot/raid situation tho.
    Last edited by stockboy; May 01 2013 at 12:08 PM.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    The core of the issue is Turbine delivering the absolute minimum which they percieve they can get away with when delivering a so-called 'instance cluster'.

  12. #12
    Actually, the core of the problem is scaling. Turbine has acknowledged that locks do not work to scaled content.

    I think a majority of people like what Turbine did with some of the older content, but they absolutely missed the ball on the current end game instance cluster.

    It's obvious it's a grab to the Hobbit movie tie-in, and most likely a directive by WB. Thus, the only option Turbine had to cater to as many people as they could was to make the new cluster the way they did - all of them scalable. In doing so, as others have said, they made the loot tables have crummy drop rates due to the foreseeable grind and farm that would ensue. Just look at the seal and medallion grind - that in itself explains that Turbine saw and designed the content to be farmed - not just the new raids/instances, but all of the scaled content.

    IMO, if the new cluster was level cap, and designed like pervious end game expansion clusters (ie locks, correct loot tables per tier, etc), there would be less issues. I do like the new cluster, but Turbine failed in it's implementation.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    I personally wish no content was on locks. I've been doing instances and raids a lot more now that there aren't locks. Why? Because everyone else is doing them a lot more.

    I hear where people are coming from on the low-loot chance being related to no locks. It's a valid complaint and concern.

    The only constructive fix I could think is to develop some type of mechanism that reward you with slightly high loot chances across the board if you run 1 of each instance raid first and slightly penalizes your loot chances the more you farm the same instance over and over again.

    So, for example, if I did Flight, Smaug, and BfE one after another, I;d get some type of 'loot rolling buff.' If all I did was farm Flight 20 times in a day, I'd get a very slight 'loot rolling debuff.'

    That way, overall loot-finding chances could be slight increased because if farming occurred the loot-finding chances would be decreased to compensate for the farming.
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