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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaMac View Post
    I would like to see Elves riding slot machines at the battle of the hornburg.
    Flying slot machines? To make them realistic though they should definately have an electrical cord coming out of the back. Lets keep it realistic.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Original? Maybe. I haven't done a literature survey. Good idea? No. Goats as riding animals are a TERRIBLE idea. They spring solely from the comment that Moria is unsuitable to horses (and, by association, ponies). Turbine could have done Moria with no riding animals at all, and they could have justified it by claiming that any left there when the orcs took over were eaten by the orcs. If Turbine had been sensible about the matter, they would have used mules.



    How does your dislike the look of war steeds make goats a good idea? If war steeds are ugly, then the art assets need an overhaul. Using the looks of war steeds to justify "war goats" is, at best, silly.



    It isn't lore friendly for a Dwarf to ride into battle. not on a horse or pony, and definitely not on a goat. Tolkien's Dwarves fought on foot. Ride *to* the battle, sure...and they'd use horses or ponies. But not for combat.

    That some other things are a poor fit (or complete break) with the lore is no justification for more lore breaks. Each and every lore break should be justified on its own merits, and its own merits only. And war goats have NO merits at all.

    Again...attempts to justify war goats begs the question: Where in LotR are the references to the Goat Lords?
    Where in LOTR are references to:
    -Saruman forging his own rings?
    -Amarthiel and Mordirith and their plans and servants?
    -Nona, Horn, ...?
    -Lore-master, Rune-keeper
    -Iron Garrison
    -many more...

    I am sure war-goats perfectly fit into LOTRO (not LOTR, but LOTRO).

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Community_Name View Post
    -Nona, Horn, ...?
    Horn is mentioned as dying in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

    I'm sure there are people that can come up with references for one or two of your other points.

    I am sure war-goats perfectly fit into LOTRO (not LOTR, but LOTRO).
    Then we will have to disagree. Goats as rideable animals in general, and in warfare in particular, are a ghastly idea. The goats in Moria should never have been added, and having been added, should never have been usable outside of Moria. That cat is already out of the bag, but that doesn't impute a need to compound the error any further.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Community_Name View Post
    Goats are original and good idea, so you HAVE TO get over it.

    Back to topic.
    War-goats are very good idea because war-steeds are ugly, ugly and ugly.
    And is lore-friendly yelling minstrel on steed? No. Is lore-friendly rune-keeper fighting on steed? No.
    So to all who do not want war-goats look at other things and compared to them war-goats are VERY lore-friendly.
    Sorry, but no. This topic has been discussed to death. Why it is coming up again is beyond me. And, the reasons against them have been solid...

    1. The only reason that goats were introduced as a riding animal at all was to keep with the "lore" that horses didn't/couldn't operate effectively in Moria.

    I've stated that I am fine with that reason for the goats because it fulfills a gap in the game mechanics for a mount. Allowing them to be used outside of Moria was (I believe) simply a convenience that Turbine allowed.

    2. The "logical" (as some have tried to claim) extension of having War-Goats is where the bridge goes too far. There is nothing in the lore that even supports the need for War-Goats. There are no records anywhere in the Tolkien notes that any army employed goats as mounts in combat. And, those supporting the idea of War-Goats seem to be quite happy to ignore the need to "fit them into the lore" in even a plausible way.
    At the very least, we have yet to run into a place in the game which requires a non-horse war-steed to fill a gap in the game mechanics. We have not encountered any caves or enclosed environments in which a war-goat would be needed.

    Also, your opinion that war-steeds are ugly is just that... an opinion.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Community_Name View Post
    Where in LOTR are references to:
    -Saruman forging his own rings?
    -Amarthiel and Mordirith and their plans and servants?
    -Nona, Horn, ...?
    -Lore-master, Rune-keeper
    -Iron Garrison
    -many more...

    I am sure war-goats perfectly fit into LOTRO (not LOTR, but LOTRO).
    - Saruman's Ring is mentioned when Gandalf meets him and is captured. He was seemingly trying to copy Sauron, as he did with everything else.
    - Horn is mentioned in song as an important character dying at the Pelennor Fields.
    - Mordirith is an extension of an existing character (Eärnur), and imo the best thing Turbine has done with logically extending lore to this day (Eärnur was the last king of Gondor, he crushed Angmar together with Rivendell, but was humiliated by WKoA during the battle nonetheless. After several years he was eventually goaded by the WKoA into one-on-one combat in Minas Morgul to reclaim his honour. He took a small party of guards and was of course deceived, never to be heard from again. He had no heirs and thus the Stewards took over Minas Tirith from then on. Turbine took that story just one step further, by having WKoA torture him, and slowly turning him into a wraith with a Morgul Blade, making Eärnur, now Mordirith, his most powerful servant and Steward to Angmar's throne)

    The rest I agree with, but adding another lore break to the list with War Goats doesn't fix the already existing lore breaks. More wrongs do not make a right.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
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  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Now that some of the detractors have gone silent, let's see if we can flesh out our Giant War-goat ideas for Turbine so that when they implement them all concerned parties will be well satisfied with the implementation. Better to get it right the first time rather than having to tweak the Giant War-goats over several updates.




    Lol,you really think turbine will make this ? Why would they invest more money and time into making war goats that only silly dwarves would ride them,and it wouldn't bring in new players and i believe alot of players would rage over that violation of lore... if they broke the lore once it is no excuse to make it even worse,if you want to ride war goats and those kind of silly mounts go play some other generic MMORPG's,this is middle earth..

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by HelmHammerhand2 View Post
    Lol,you really think turbine will make this ? Why would they invest more money and time into making war goats that only silly dwarves would ride them,and it wouldn't bring in new players and i believe alot of players would rage over that violation of lore... if they broke the lore once it is no excuse to make it even worse,if you want to ride war goats and those kind of silly mounts go play some other generic MMORPG's,this is middle earth..

    Well, there are no guarantees, but, yes, I do think Turbine has planned to add this all along. We got 3 types of mounts in the game: horse, pony, and Giant Goat. So far all are available as war steeds except for one: Giant Goat.


    No, it is not just "silly dwarves" that would ride them. All races can acquire and ride the existing Giant Goat mounts (and they often do just that!), so same would logically hold true for the Giant War Goats. I don't think anyone, certainly not I, is suggesting that they be for dwarf characters only. But in the game the Giant Goats certainly do have an association with the dwarf factions, as has been previously expounded upon in earlier posts, and seem to be a natural fit as the mount of choice for sturdy dwarf characters in this particular game.


    And, no, before anyone asks let's be clear: I am not in favor of taking away your precious ponies. Just in favor of the OPTION to use the Giant War Goat instead -- just like we currently can for our regular, non-war steed, mounts.


    I don't play any other MMO, so I am not aware of Giant War Goats (or regular Giant Goat mounts) being available in any other one. But I don't think you can lump Giant Goats in with other "silly" mounts that may exist in other because Giant Goats are already available in LOTRO (just not as war steeds yet)!


    This topic is not outrageous like flying banana boat mounts or slot machines and rune-keepers or you-in-a-box cosmetics. On the contrary, this is just to urge on a logical extenstion that would be truly be a seamless addition.

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Well, I wouldn't necessarily call Flying Giant War-goat in the 'moors logical for 2 reasons: 1) the existing Giant Goat mounts do not have wings (nor is there any existing flying mount) and 2) the existing war steeds are not usable in the 'moors so I don't see any reason to expect that the Giant Goat version would be.

    But who knows for certain? Only thing for certain is that the Giant War Goats will be universally appreciated once they are introduced and players have a chance to earn them and switch out their ponies for these.
    And also by logical extension, since Saurman has introduced black powder or some similar blasting material, which is actually in the books, we should just go ahead and go all in and introduce fire arms, tube artillery, land mines and all the other neat stuff associated with early modern warfare. After all, it is only a small technological step, especially with the advanced metallurgy and forging techniques available from forging all those legendary weapons.

    Oh, and my dwarf and my hobbit would not be caught dead riding a goat, goats are mobile rations.

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothan117 View Post
    Oh, and my dwarf and my hobbit would not be caught dead riding a goat, goats are mobile rations.
    No ones arguing for advanced weaponry in this thread. And in the context of this game, goats, specifically the Giant Goats, are mounts, not mobile rations. But if you choose to view mounts that way, then the same could be said of your ponies. But my characters definitely do not view them that way (and my LM emphatically does not view mounts or other animal companions that way!)

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    No ones arguing for advanced weaponry in this thread. And in the context of this game, goats, specifically the Giant Goats, are mounts, not mobile rations. But if you choose to view mounts that way, then the same could be said of your ponies. But my characters definitely do not view them that way (and my LM emphatically does not view mounts or other animal companions that way!)
    You are arguing for logical extensions and based on lore in the books, more advanced weaponry is a far shorter logical extension leap than mounts that are mentioned nowhere in the books and most definitely not in any text regarding Rohan.

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Rothan117 View Post
    You are arguing for logical extensions and based on lore in the books, more advanced weaponry is a far shorter logical extension leap than mounts that are mentioned nowhere in the books and most definitely not in any text regarding Rohan.
    The only logical extension I'm advocating for in this thread is:

    We have horse, pony, and Giant Goat mounts in this game - but only 2 out of the 3 usable in mounted combat, let's hurry up and get the third added. There is no mention of Giant Goat mounts in the books at all that I am aware of, however they are in the game -- just not for use in mounted combat (yet).

    Besides maybe blinding flash, there doesn't seem to be any gun powder usage in combat. So that seems to be a substantial leap to mines and bombs and such. However, it is not a leap at all for them to extend existing Giant Goat usage to mounted combat just like they've done for the other existing mount types.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    The only logical extension I'm advocating for in this thread is:

    We have horse, pony, and Giant Goat mounts in this game - but only 2 out of the 3 usable in mounted combat, let's hurry up and get the third added. There is no mention of Giant Goat mounts in the books at all that I am aware of, however they are in the game -- just not for use in mounted combat (yet).

    Besides maybe blinding flash, there doesn't seem to be any gun powder usage in combat. So that seems to be a substantial leap to mines and bombs and such. However, it is not a leap at all for them to extend existing Giant Goat usage to mounted combat just like they've done for the other existing mount types.
    His point was that there are explosives in the books. And no giant mutant goats in the books. So adding gun powder based weaponry into the game would a small leap.


    But I agree with some of what you say.
    Our path is clear: we must get rid of all giant goats in the game.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by wulu View Post
    Funny how people keep ignoring posts that stated that there are ponies , war ponies for the dwarfs and hobbits, I find it hard to believe that they are in the same league as Mearas. Also, for those of you who keep using the lore as an excuse, then when helm's deep releases, please restrain yourself from going there, here is a cold hard truth, You, yes, You, were not there. ( unless you are man who is from Rohan)
    True, we were not there at Helms Deep, but what is to say we were not out harrieing the approching Orc army. Maybe we were helping the Hurons stomp out the retreating Orcs. Maybe we were in the mountains helping to insure the back entrance to the caves under Helms Deep was protected and that any Orcs that found their way into the caves were stopped before they could reach the women and children. There are a lot of "Maybe we were" that can still be part of Helms Deep even if it is not in the lore.
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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    But I agree with some of what you say.
    Our path is clear: we must get rid of all giant goats in the game.
    +rep while I still can.

    Yes! The solution is obvious. Kill off (and eat) the giant goats. And do it quick before the blight spreads.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    +rep while I still can.

    Yes! The solution is obvious. Kill off (and eat) the giant goats. And do it quick before the blight spreads.
    Speaking of rep, I wonder what happens with it in the new forum (besides disappearing). Maybe a forum title or something. I currently have 3212 reputation and I'd hate for it to all just disolve without leaving something positive behind.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Speaking of rep, I wonder what happens with it in the new forum (besides disappearing). Maybe a forum title or something. I currently have 3212 reputation and I'd hate for it to all just disolve without leaving something positive behind.
    Keep posting the way you do, thoughtful, insightful, and well written, and you will have a very good rep with anyone who reads your posts.

  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Well, there are no guarantees, but, yes, I do think Turbine has planned to add this all along. We got 3 types of mounts in the game: horse, pony, and Giant Goat. So far all are available as war steeds except for one: Giant Goat.


    No, it is not just "silly dwarves" that would ride them. All races can acquire and ride the existing Giant Goat mounts (and they often do just that!), so same would logically hold true for the Giant War Goats. I don't think anyone, certainly not I, is suggesting that they be for dwarf characters only. But in the game the Giant Goats certainly do have an association with the dwarf factions, as has been previously expounded upon in earlier posts, and seem to be a natural fit as the mount of choice for sturdy dwarf characters in this particular game.


    And, no, before anyone asks let's be clear: I am not in favor of taking away your precious ponies. Just in favor of the OPTION to use the Giant War Goat instead -- just like we currently can for our regular, non-war steed, mounts.


    I don't play any other MMO, so I am not aware of Giant War Goats (or regular Giant Goat mounts) being available in any other one. But I don't think you can lump Giant Goats in with other "silly" mounts that may exist in other because Giant Goats are already available in LOTRO (just not as war steeds yet)!


    This topic is not outrageous like flying banana boat mounts or slot machines and rune-keepers or you-in-a-box cosmetics. On the contrary, this is just to urge on a logical extenstion that would be truly be a seamless addition.
    Honestly i think that ponies are more suitable mounts for dwarves,because in the hobbit (both the book and the movie) dwarves are riding on their ponies throughout the journey. As far as the war goats go,i dont like them i never will,but that is my opinion,and you have your opinion but i dont think they will add war goats any time soon,most of the people on this thread and on my server are against war goats,so unless something drastically changes you wont see war goats in lotro

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmHammerhand2 View Post
    Honestly i think that ponies are more suitable mounts for dwarves,because in the hobbit (both the book and the movie) dwarves are riding on their ponies throughout the journey. As far as the war goats go,i dont like them i never will,but that is my opinion,and you have your opinion but i dont think they will add war goats any time soon,most of the people on this thread and on my server are against war goats,so unless something drastically changes you wont see war goats in lotro
    I'm sorry. You have not properly satisfied the Cookie Monster Logic of the OP. Therefore, your post will be categorically ignored... because you deny the infallible logic of adding War Goats.

    Just stating the obvious here...
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  19. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by HelmHammerhand2 View Post
    Honestly i think that ponies are more suitable mounts for dwarves,because in the hobbit (both the book and the movie) dwarves are riding on their ponies throughout the journey. As far as the war goats go,i dont like them i never will,but that is my opinion,and you have your opinion but i dont think they will add war goats any time soon,most of the people on this thread and on my server are against war goats,so unless something drastically changes you wont see war goats in lotro
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    I'm sorry. You have not properly satisfied the Cookie Monster Logic of the OP. Therefore, your post will be categorically ignored... because you deny the infallible logic of adding War Goats.

    Just stating the obvious here...
    Thanks for trying to help (maybe?..), but I actually thought HelmHammerhand2's was a good post -- stating his opinion and reason for it in a non-combative, calm, and respectful manner. I didn't think the post denied the infallible logic of adding the Giant War Goats, it just stated his preference for ponies. Clearly, the dwarves traveled on ponies in the Hobbit and ponies are one of the options for mounts in this game for those who love ponies. But dwarves (and all other races) have the choice to ride Giant Goats in this game as well. Some people love the war ponies, some would prefer the Giant War Goats. We're just advocating for the option to choose a Giant War Goat instead of pony just like we currently have this option to ride a Giant Goat as our regular mounts. Those who love the ponies would still be able to ride them just as they currently do. While, I have a strong anti-pony bias, I am not and have not advocated for the removal of the war ponies.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Thanks for trying to help (maybe?..), but I actually thought HelmHammerhand2's was a good post -- stating his opinion and reason for it in a non-combative, calm, and respectful manner. I didn't think the post denied the infallible logic of adding the Giant War Goats, it just stated his preference for ponies. Clearly, the dwarves traveled on ponies in the Hobbit and ponies are one of the options for mounts in this game for those who love ponies. But dwarves (and all other races) have the choice to ride Giant Goats in this game as well. Some people love the war ponies, some would prefer the Giant War Goats. We're just advocating for the option to choose a Giant War Goat instead of pony just like we currently have this option to ride a Giant Goat as our regular mounts. Those who love the ponies would still be able to ride them just as they currently do. While, I have a strong anti-pony bias, I am not and have not advocated for the removal of the war ponies.
    Ummm... You didn't actually address HH2's points, to wit: The available Lore puts Dwarves on ponies, NOT goats. Such opinions as have been expressed are predominantly *against* War Goats. HH2's reports from those he has talked this over with on his server are also strongly against the addition of War Goats. You need to address these points if you wish to have any hope at all of persuading people.

    As for TheCrossbow's remarks...no, those aren't supporting your position. Indeed, at least technically, they are a Forum rules violation.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Turbine should have used mules in Moria.
    Agree with this a bunch. Never did know why they choose goats. Yes goats have good footing, etc. but mules would have worked just as well since they are a lot calmer than horses and had been used in mines in the old days.

    All these other requests are just shouting in the wind as I am fairly sure this was closed last year. But that would require folks to actually search the forums before posting. LOL
    I wonder what IS behind that waterfall?
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  22. #172
    I`m betting there was a coin-toss. Heads we go with goats and tails we roll this mules.

    Personally I don`t care if War Goats are added or not. I think the whole mounted combat gimmick is a waste of development time and resources that could have been better spent elsewhere.
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  23. #173
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    If you read the quest dialog in the Wold, you would realize that the war-steed you are getting is the war-steed that belonged to the Thane of Langhold. His wife gives it to you after he does and she no longer needs it as thanks in service to the people of langhold.

    If Turbine was to do war-goats they'd have to create a new quest line somewhere for you to earn one as well.
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  24. #174
    I think some of us are losing sight of the key fact that, despite what our individual opinion is on whether it is good or even appropriate to have Giant Goat mounts, we truly *already have* Giant Goats mounts as part of this game world and some, if not many, players choose to ride them currently.


    So, if your argument is that Giant Goat mounts should not exist in this game world due to book lore reasons then my suggestion to to you is to create a new suggestion thread asking for the removal of the Giant Goat mounts. But that ship has already sailed -- I really doubt that after introducing and expanding on the Giant Goat mounts, and some players prefer these Giant Goats, that Turbine is going to change the game based on your suggestion.


    If we can all agree that there are indeed Giant Goat mounts in this game then we'll be starting from the basis of fact and we'll be on the same page.


    Now, hopefully, if we are on the same page here, we can make a factual statement that "some players currently choose to ride Giant Goat mounts in this game."


    For some players, the mounts are very important -- players spend money on buying them from store or spend a lot of time completing deeds to acquire them and they enjoy the appearance of the mounts just like any other cosmetic aspect to the game.


    Now, if you can step into the shoes of a player who prefers the Giant Goats and has been able to ride Giant Goats all the way up to Rohan, you might be able to recognize the travesty that is the omission of the Giant Goats in the mounted combat mechanic. Hence, the reason this in an open, current issue and the reason for this thread.


    Turbine has a chance to rectify the omission of the Giant War Goat in this next expansion. I am confident that they will in this expansion or a future update, at the very least as a cosmetic option if not adding new quests to support the addition, because it is a shame to only have the option of a (laughable) war pony for dwarf and hobbit characters after riding a Giant Goat mount all along up until the need for mounted combat and the enhanced mount speed that comes with the war ponies.

  25. #175
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    War Goats

    I participated in the RoR Beta and we had this discussion on the Beta forums and it was properly shot down with a large caliber bullet. We are in ROHAN and the Rohirrim DO NOT ride goats. We have mounted combat BECAUSE we are given access to horses that have been trained by the Rohirrim for mounted combat. All of our other mounts that we have aquired over time are all mounts that have NOT recieved training in combat. I am one of those "Lore" people who was actually disapointed that we got goats to ride on when MoM was released. Yes, they look cute but I can't stand them.
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