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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    What's all this I hear about Warg Oats in Helm's Deep? Wargs are evil carnivores! They don't eat grains, they eat flesh. Raw flesh. Does anyone really think they can distact wargs from attacking them by tempting them with a bowl of oats? This is the most ridiculous...
    Not just Warg Oats, but Giant Warg Oats! That should now make much more sense to you ;-)

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by astalyn View Post
    It's not logical. To my knowledge (I'm not a lore-junkie), the warsteeds are based off the Mearas, an extraordinary race/breed of horse:
    I don't believe they were.

    In the book as far as I can recall, Shadowfax is the only horse of that breed with a life-span approaching that of Men which Tolkien ever mentions, the horses of Rohan were 'normal' horses bred for combat. It is not in line with the lore IMO for 'us' to be riding arounnd on such noble beasts as the Mearas.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Thanks for your positive contribution -- you make some great points that Turbine should consider when adding in the giant war goats. Given that the giants riding goats currently in game all come from dwarves or dwarf-related activities, it indeed might make more sense that the giant war goats would come from them as well, as you pointed out.
    It remains that the Dwarves culturally didn't go in for mounted combat, hence there's nowhere for your war-goats to have come from. There's just not much call for cavalry down a mine

    It is really a shame that this thread got bogged down with the arguments from just a few people who dislike the idea of giant war goats and are very vocal about it.
    There are more than a few people who get the whole 'romance' of Rohan, Land of the Horse-lords, and want no goats. Don't imagine you represent some massive majority in favour. Threads like this will always get 'bogged down', as you put it, because of that.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    It remains that the Dwarves culturally didn't go in for mounted combat, hence there's nowhere for your war-goats to have come from. There's just not much call for cavalry down a mine
    Others have brought up this point earlier in the thread. Dwarves culturally did not go in for riding giant goats until this game brought the giant goats into the picture and associated them with dwarven factions. To then force the dwarves (and characters of any race who have grown accustomed to riding the giant goats all over Middle Earth in this game) to ride those ridiculous ponies in order to participate in a new game mechanic is where Turbine has erred and my hope is that they will address it with Helm's Deep. I don't know how deeply imbedded the mounted combat mechanic will be in Helm's Deep, but hopefully the traditional dwarven giant goats can be added in regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    There are more than a few people who get the whole 'romance' of Rohan, Land of the Horse-lords, and want no goats. Don't imagine you represent some massive majority in favour. Threads like this will always get 'bogged down', as you put it, because of that.
    Never claimed to represent a majority. Not sure if those opposed represent anything close to a majority either, but, regardless, what we can see in this thread is only a small few bogging it down.

  5. #80
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    We already have Goats in the game, so Lore is already OK with it... because it passed **Who Ever Holds the Licenses**...

    I would LOVE this!!

    /Signed
    Last edited by NuclearTonic; Apr 30 2013 at 05:11 PM.
    "Shepherds of the Forest" -- RIP

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by NuclearTonic View Post
    We already have Goats in the game, so Lore is already OK with it... because it passed Tolken Estates...
    Where did you get that idea? The Tolkien estate has no say in what Turbine adds or doesn't, their deal is with SZC (who holds the rights to The Hobbit and LotR that Tolkien sold in the late 60's to pay a tax debt.).

    If Christopher Tolkien/the Tolkien estate had any say in LOTRO...it wouldn't exist.

    (And if SZC loses the current lawsuit the Tolkien estate filed last November, the addition of "Hobbit slot machine presents" that is coming in the next update may finally allow the estate to shut LOTRO down!)

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NuclearTonic View Post
    We already have Goats in the game, so Lore is already OK with it... because it passed Tolken Estates...
    The Tolkien Estate has nothing to say about it, much to the annoyance of CJRT. If he had his way there would be no LotR games of any kind, nor movies either. JRRT sold the rights to The Hobbits and The Lord of the Rings in I think it was 1969, to pay back taxes. The rights-holder is Saul Zaentz Corporation, which sometimes is very particular about Lore, and sometimes not so much so.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Others have brought up this point earlier in the thread. Dwarves culturally did not go in for riding giant goats until this game brought the giant goats into the picture and associated them with dwarven factions. To then force the dwarves (and characters of any race who have grown accustomed to riding the giant goats all over Middle Earth in this game) to ride those ridiculous ponies in order to participate in a new game mechanic is where Turbine has erred and my hope is that they will address it with Helm's Deep. I don't know how deeply imbedded the mounted combat mechanic will be in Helm's Deep, but hopefully the traditional dwarven giant goats can be added in regardless.
    Horses and ponies remain the default. Goats were only ever supposed to be a limited alternative, not a complete replacement. The war-horses, being from Rohan, are supposed to be better than other horses (that was why Mordor had been stealing them) but there's no plausible source for a direct goat equivalent. There is no 'Land of the Goat-lords' where somebody's been breeding super-goats so it's a complete non-starter. (And especially not given the source of the bloodline that supposedly makes the war-horses special, according to the game's own lore).

    Never claimed to represent a majority. Not sure if those opposed represent anything close to a majority either, but, regardless, what we can see in this thread is only a small few bogging it down.
    Don't try to say that only a few oppose the idea then because that's the exact same thing, trying to make out anyone who opposes the idea to be in the minority. This is far from being the only time this has been discussed and if anything there's actually been only limited sympathy for war-goats.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    what we can see in this thread is only a small few bogging it down.
    I guess counting isn't your thing, eh? Counting posters (not posts) and being overly generous to those in favor (there were two or three that didn't express opinions, but made jokes that *could* be seen as supportive, I count the following:

    Opposed: 14

    No opinion/off topic/joking: 10

    In favor of: 8

    It seems, in this thread at least, the "small few" are those who actually want this silly idea to come to pass.

    Last edited by Belias_Lassiter; Apr 30 2013 at 04:30 PM.
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  10. #85
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    Just throwing some random thoughts around here... Laughing too hard about this thread to offer other than that.

    * Huge goat statue things within Moria, like Trojan horses. And birds. Lots and lots and lots of depictions of birds... wait, what?
    * Lórien Meta Deed Steed is a goat. The amount of what the fudge that keeps on inducing? Massive.
    * Heavy War-Pony is bigger than a normal horse. To the point of looking like it will eat the horse next to it. I'll walk, thanks, rather than climb that as a dwarf. Even less as a hobbit.
    * The War-steed gained is related to the Mearas, and given to the PC by the widow of a Thane. Tolkien specified that only the offspring of Eorl could ride the Mearas (Gandalf's...special), and even given that the WS gained is related to such creatures as Shadowfax only in little more than a name, what right could the wife of a fallen official have to give away what is, essentially, the crown's property?
    * Goats identical to the ones Moria introduced are wandering out in the plains and farmyards of Rohan. Especially in the crofts.... happily trotting alongside realistic goats. And those... weird, hulking masses called grazers.

    The lesson learned?
    Don't drink and dive into the depths of Rohan. Though there's a severely twisted, masochistic part of me that would really, really love to see what would happen if one could take a warsteed into Moria... Oh, the test of skill and prayers for a lag-free session...

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Belias_Lassiter View Post
    I guess counting isn't your thing, eh? Counting posters (not posts) and being overly generous to those in favor (there were two or three that didn't express opinions, but made jokes that *could* be seen as supportive, I count the following:

    Opposed: 14

    No opinion/off topic/joking: 10

    In favor of: 8

    It seems, in this thread at least, the "small few" are those who actually want this silly idea to come to pass.

    LOL nice job counting! And you're right, counting is not my thing. So what I've learn from your counting is that even within this one thread neither those who are for the logical addition of giant war goats, nor those who are opposed to giving players the option to participate in mounted combat with their existing giant goat mounts constitute a majority (but, by all means, check my math on that). However, out of those you counted as opposed, again, I'd still say "only a small few are bogging down this thread." What constitutes "bogging down" is obviously a matter of opinion and/or perception, but if you really wanted to continue down trying to nitpick in order to "disprove" my opinion or "invalidate" my perception, I suggest you take those posters who are opposed and count how many times they have posted in this thread. If a large percentage of those posts are from more than a "small few" posters then I would consider you successful in your endeavor.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Daeross View Post
    * Heavy War-Pony is bigger than a normal horse. To the point of looking like it will eat the horse next to it. I'll walk, thanks, rather than climb that as a dwarf. Even less as a hobbit.
    Yeah, those things are ridiculous! Hopefully the giant goats will not become giant monstrous war goats when added in -- that would be kind of hilarious, I guess, and I'd might like to see that, but I truly think they made the giant goat mounts big enough already as they are. All in all, I think the giant goats in game were very well done from all angles.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    LOL nice job counting! And you're right, counting is not my thing.
    That's one way to state the obvious.

    So what I've learn from your counting is that even within this one thread neither those who are for the logical addition of giant war goats, nor those who are opposed to giving players the option to participate in mounted combat with their existing giant goat mounts constitute a majority (but, by all means, check my math on that).
    Cute... Still pushing that your opinion of the matter is "logical" and the opinions of those opposed to you are not, eh? Have you ever considered that your position isn't logical and that those opposed to war goat mounts may have logic on their side? (You might discount that conjecture, but have you at least considered it?)

    However, out of those you counted as opposed, again, I'd still say "only a small few are bogging down this thread." What constitutes "bogging down" is obviously a matter of opinion and/or perception, but if you really wanted to continue down trying to nitpick in order to "disprove" my opinion or "invalidate" my perception, I suggest you take those posters who are opposed and count how many times they have posted in this thread. If a large percentage of those posts are from more than a "small few" posters then I would consider you successful in your endeavor.
    If a count is done by post, then your--great many--posts would also have to be counted.

    Still...where a majority cannot be clearly shown to carry the day, the usual next step is to use a plurality, and by that measure, those in favor of war goat mounts come up short. Fortunately for all concerned, though, this is not an election (because if it were, I for one, would be *seriously* concerned about attempts at ballot box stuffing). The decision is up to Turbine and--so far--they seem to be making the correct decision. War steed are only equines and never caprids.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    The decision is up to Turbine and--so far--they seem to be making the correct decision. War steed are only equines and never caprids.
    For whoever's counting, I'm still "against".

    However, there are attested and implemented non-equine war-steeds in-game: lupines!
    Tuco of the Quick Post

  15. #90
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    On the one hand we have
    "Exterminate all goats!! I hate goats so they must go!! Tolkien never mentions Goats there for they dont exist! A Goat bit my sister once!"

    On the other we have
    "I love goats therefore I want one! Discrimination against goat lovers! If the gods didn't want us to have goats they wouldn't have made them! Make Love not lore!

    A for me I amm a fence sitter
    I can see both sides of the argument, some of those quoting lore make my teeth itch though as do some of those who want it because its there
    I like my goats and believe they should be only for hobbits (although id love a big st Bernard to ride!) and dwarves...Humans and elves, have you seen yourselves on goatback? YOU LOOK RIDICULOUS!!
    Mounted combat goats in Rohan? No sorry just wouldn't "fit"
    Mounted combat goats in Moria, North of Thorins hall, Mount Gundawassit and Grey mountains? Well why not there are places where human, elven and even hobbit eyes have never seen. Whose to say what those crazy dwarves are doing deep deep down underground...there could be freeways of dwarven goat movement down there!

    Anyways Ill stick to my fence sitting...although sooner or later i might fall off
    Inside every old person is a young person wondering what just happened

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
    However, there are attested and implemented non-equine war-steeds in-game: lupines!
    True, as far as it goes. They're not for player characters. They can only be used by "Team Sauron".

    Hmmm.... Now *there's* a thought...only let orcs and goblins ride war goats. (Still no lore to support it, though.)

  17. #92
    +100 rep for this thread, your logic is irrefutable.

    And +500 for making us all see that RK's should have been confined to Moria long ago.

    I do recommend you consider capitalization for "Giant War Goats" - it is too big a concept to leave to lowercase letters.

    Finally, please consider the point that Giant War Goats should be appropriate for Elves as well. As someone else stated, the Galadhrim meta-deed - case in point. It is pretty, but so are many War Steeds, and does not mean they are would not be ready to trot into battle.

    If Giant War Goats come to be, I will name mine after you.

    EDIT: I did not use the term 'nay-sayers,' but did want to say I apparently gave you rep recently for something else so sadly cannot give you more rep at this point in time.
    Last edited by McFarlane; May 01 2013 at 01:27 AM. Reason: did not use 'nay-sayers'

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
    For whoever's counting, I'm still "against".

    However, there are attested and implemented non-equine war-steeds in-game: lupines!
    Yes, but only for the bad guys.
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  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Cute... Still pushing that your opinion of the matter is "logical" and the opinions of those opposed to you are not, eh? Have you ever considered that your position isn't logical and that those opposed to war goat mounts may have logic on their side? (You might discount that conjecture, but have you at least considered it?)

    Well, I've shown many times now within this thread why disallowing the use of the superior Giant Goat mounts in mounted combat is illogical. But I've also stated that those opposed have a decent argument and it is the same one I'd use if I failed to embrace the reality of the Giant Goats mounts and wanted to ban them from use in mounted combat.


    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    If a count is done by post, then your--great many--posts would also have to be counted.
    While, again, counting is not my thing, I don't really mind that others like to -- and I think it is logical that if they are going to do the counting then they should be the ones to decide what to count and what not to.


    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Fortunately for all concerned, though, this is not an election (because if it were, I for one, would be *seriously* concerned about attempts at ballot box stuffing).

    Agreed 199% -- I too would be very wary of any sort of online poll.


    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    The decision is up to Turbine

    Absolutely and thankfully true! Who better to add in the Giant War Goats with Helm's Deep than those who had the vision and good sense to add the Giant Goats mounts in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    and--so far--they seem to be making the correct decision. War steed are only equines and never caprids

    This is where we disagree -- adding the Giant Goat mounts was clearly a correct decision, but then disallowing their use in the mounted combat mechanic was a heart-breaking equine-centric travesty of elephantine proportions as demonstrated through out his thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
    For whoever's counting, I'm still "against".


    However, there are attested and implemented non-equine war-steeds in-game: lupines!

    [Counting is not my thing, but I recognize and respect your position on this]


    Also in game are two different examples of elephantine war-steeds:


    1. the elephantine war ponies
    2. the mammoth rider(s)? in Forochel


    Quote Originally Posted by McFarlane View Post
    +100 rep for this thread, your logic is irrefutable.
    And +500 for making us all see that RK's should have been confined to Moria long ago.
    I do recommend you consider capitalization for "Giant War Goats" - it is too big a concept to leave to lowercase letters.

    Kudos for your keen discernment, sir! I appreciate your positive attitude, good humor and your decision to embrace reality. I will follow according to your suggestion about use of capitalization - that seems quite logical to me as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by McFarlane View Post
    Finally, please consider the point that Giant War Goats should be appropriate for Elves as well. As someone else stated, the Galadhrim meta-deed - case in point. It is pretty, but so are many War Steeds, and does not mean they are would not be ready to trot into battle.

    Oh, certainly and without a doubt. I have stated before that the Giant War Goats should be available for every class just as the superior Giant Goat mounts are currently. It should not be too shocking that elves, especially the Galadhrim, who are known for keen observation, would recognize the superior quality of the Giant Goats.


    Quote Originally Posted by McFarlane View Post
    If Giant War Goats come to be, I will name mine after you.

    Rasdun seems like a good name for a Giant War Goat. I am undecided about the name for mine. I try to keep names simple so maybe either SuperiorDwarvenGiantWarGoat or LegolasTheGiantWarGoat.


    Quote Originally Posted by McFarlane View Post
    EDIT: I did not use the term 'nay-sayers,' but did want to say I apparently gave you rep recently for something else so sadly cannot give you more rep at this point in time.

    On a serious note, I definitely recommend avoiding the use of that term. Thanks for the rep, although, I hear the rep will be going away with the new forum system. I might start a thread suggesting that our rep be converted to Turbine points (or maybe experience points for our new Giant War Goats! ;-)

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Well, I've shown many times now within this thread why disallowing the use of the superior Giant Goat mounts in mounted combat is illogical.
    Only if you ignore the game's own lore about the origins of the war-horses. There's nowhere for equivalent war-goats to have come from. The war-horses are supposedly part-mearh, i.e. they're partly descended from horses brought to Middle-earth from Valinor. There's no goat equivalent of the mearas. so your suggestion is illogical. It's solely about your preferences, not any sort of logic.

    But I've also stated that those opposed have a decent argument and it is the same one I'd use if I failed to embrace the reality of the Giant Goats mounts and wanted to ban them from use in mounted combat.
    You talk as if they were already usable in mounted combat and we want to 'ban' them, as opposed to the reality that they aren't and that you are the one who isn't happy with the reality. Our grudging acceptance of the existence of goats in the game combined with a desire to see them kept in their present role is a perfectly reasonable position. I'm getting tired of hearing you talk as if all right-thinking people think Middle-earth should be full of goats.

    Absolutely and thankfully true! Who better to add in the Giant War Goats with Helm's Deep than those who had the vision and good sense to add the Giant Goats mounts in the first place.
    Again, talking as if giant goats are somehow natural and inevitable. Anyone who thinks that has got the idea from someplace else entirely (D&Dish generic fantasy or the likes of WoW), rather than anything to do with Middle-earth.

    This is where we disagree -- adding the Giant Goat mounts was clearly a correct decision, but then disallowing their use in the mounted combat mechanic was a heart-breaking equine-centric travesty of elephantine proportions as demonstrated through out his thread.
    What is it that makes it 'clearly' a correct decision, please, given the context and that the goats were in fact very far from being a natural or obvious thing to add? Still less this notion of yours for them to be being used in combat given that left to themselves, Dwarves always fought on foot. Being forced by circumstances to borrow ponies from Men is one thing, having their own independent means would be quite another.

  21. #96
    Interesting (and amusing) discussion. Not that I'm in favor of introducing War Goats--or Warg Oats for that matter--since I'm definitely not, but I did want to comment on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Belias_Lassiter View Post
    I think it does. Both Tolkien and Turbine are pretty specific about this. No other force in Northern Middle earth has any sort of cavalry whatsoever. In fact, the only other mounted combatants are warg riders, Wainriders and Harradrim. Since I highly doubt the dwarves are getting their war goats from orcs, Easterlings or Southrons, who *IS* training them? Your LI example doesn't apply. Who in Harwick is going to train/offer the player a war goat? Would you place a dwarven community in Rohan? Or send folks who want goats elsewhere to learn MC?
    I'm not sure how you're defining 'Northern Middle Earth', but Tolkien mentions specifically that Gondor has at least some cavalry. After all, it's Imrahil's Swan Knights that ride out to save Eomer when he gets surrounded by the enemy during the Battle of Pelennor Fields. And I don't believe JRRT actually excludes the possibility of other groups having cavalry units, though none are as large or as famous as Rohan's, of course. I found this discussion of military units in ME to be very interesting:

    http://www.warofthering.net/forums/a...p/t-10483.html

    Much of it is speculation, granted, but the author is careful to use whatever information that Tolkien provides on the subject.

    What vast underground spaces do the dwarves control at this point in the Third Age? Certainly not Moria, as we know the Iron Garrison is doomed and will be wiped out since Moria is reclaimed *after* the fall of Sauron. Or if we give the nod to Turbine, they will at least not finish the fighting in Moria for a long time. Yet we see no areas currently under dwarven control with any goats save riding goats. Where are the training grounds? If you intend to add them at a future date, will folks wanting goats have to go to Moria for their MC training quest?
    As I'm sure you know, the Iron Garrison is purely a Turbine invention; in Tolkien's writings after Balin's attempt the dwarves didn't try to retake Moria again until after the fall of Sauron. However, given the IG's existence in game lore, I don't think it necessarily follows that they would be wiped out...the fall of Sauron is just months away, after all. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to hold out that long, though it certainly could take some time to clear most of the evil critters out of Moria. And one underground space that the dwarves definitely did control at the end of the Third Age is Erebor. Not as vast as Moria, granted, but still non-trivial.

    But there were no War Goats there, ever.
    Last edited by Finduilas88; May 01 2013 at 04:51 PM.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    I won't and I don't even want to *see* one, and that would be outside of my control.

    Goats were a mistake from their very first appearance. Turbine should have used mules in Moria.
    Mules with a maximum of 20% speed increase at that...

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasdun View Post
    Absolutely and thankfully true! Who better to add in the Giant War Goats with Helm's Deep than those who had the vision and good sense to add the Giant Goats mounts in the first place.
    As has been said several times before, adding goat mounts was a pretty poor idea in the first place. Compounding that lack of good judgment by adding Goat war mounts would only speak to a *lack* of good sense on the part of the Turbine staff.

    This is where we disagree -- adding the Giant Goat mounts was clearly a correct decision, but then disallowing their use in the mounted combat mechanic was a heart-breaking equine-centric travesty of elephantine proportions as demonstrated through out his thread.
    As noted, not everyone agrees that goat mounts were a wise decision *ever*. You are, as the saying goes, putting the cart before the horse (or the goat, in your case). We are in Rohan. Rohan is the domain of the *horse* lords. Not the goat lords. Rohirrim breed and train war *horses*. In no other domain of Middle-earth are war steeds of any sort mentioned. In no part of Middle-earth are rideable goats mentioned or referenced *at* *all*. Turbine added goats as mounts simply to get around JRRT's statement that horses were unsuitable to use in Moria. Why they didn't do a little research and use mules, I'll never know. Alternatively, there could have been no mounts at all and it'd've been "shanks mare" all the way (notice that that very old locution refers to *horses*, not goats). At least that would have added to the realism of Moria...unlike goats.

    Kudos for your keen discernment, sir! I appreciate your positive attitude, good humor and your decision to embrace reality. I will follow according to your suggestion about use of capitalization - that seems quite logical to me as well.
    Oh? It's a matter of "reality" now is it? How about some *real* citations for the use of goats as riding animals? (I will spot you one *mythological* use of goats as *draft* animals...Thor's chariot from the Eddas.)

    Oh, certainly and without a doubt. I have stated before that the Giant War Goats should be available for every class just as the superior Giant Goat mounts are currently. It should not be too shocking that elves, especially the Galadhrim, who are known for keen observation, would recognize the superior quality of the Giant Goats.
    Talk about grasping at straws... By now, everyone knows that you're pushing this idea because you want a war goat. Why don't you leave it just wanting one and stop trying to manufacture a justification out of whole cloth?

    Rasdun seems like a good name for a Giant War Goat. I am undecided about the name for mine. I try to keep names simple so maybe either SuperiorDwarvenGiantWarGoat or LegolasTheGiantWarGoat.
    I would consider using the name for a horse, but--alas--the name would apply to the *whole* horse.

  24. #99

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Oh? It's a matter of "reality" now is it? How about some *real* citations for the use of goats as riding animals? (I will spot you one *mythological* use of goats as *draft* animals...Thor's chariot from the Eddas.)

    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree as the same points are just being repeated. But the "reality" I was referring to in your citation is the reality that we all can log in to the game and enjoy riding around everywhere, including in Rohan, on our superior Giant Goat mounts.


    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    I would consider using the name for a horse, but--alas--the name would apply to the *whole* horse.

    There has been some good one-liners in this thread, but I think this one topped them all. Even though I know it is meant to be at my expense, I did literally laugh out loud at this. I had to give you a plus rep for this one! If Turbine switched out the Giant Goats and put in mules as you'd prefer, you have my leave (not that you need it) to name yours Rasdun.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    939
    Yeah why not.

    We have runekeepers.

    And already goats, just make them bigger and call them war-goats.

 

 
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