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  1. #1

    Hunter Revolution: Imagine! What life could be like if hunters stood in melee range!

    The Day Before... Hunter wakes, throws on his month old foul smelling leathers and hooded black cloak, checks his traps from the night before, managing to catch only a small bird who has no sense of smell.
    He cooks and eats his bland unseasoned bird by himself, far from his group of companions who shun him. He grudgingly rejoins his group, shadowing them, keeping his distance, as they attempt to assault Ost Elendil in Annuminas.
    His companions give him mistrustful glances, noticing that even in combat he keeps himself far from the melee battle, drawing attention to himself with his deadly arrows, bringing his foes to him, forcing his companions the burglar and champion to chase his foes and stop them from reaching the hunter who will surely be slaughtered quickly if that foe were to reach him.
    He has upset his group, his healer refuses to provide aid when he keeps so far from the battle she is unable to reach him in time.
    Hunter realises how very.... alone he is, and how he will die that way if something does not change.

    He feels suddenly awakened!! He moves in to join the fray with his group, suddenly able to use those rusty melee skills that were long out of practice. He draws attention to himself with his skills, but his group can quickly recover because their foes are still within easy reach, they easily destroy all in their path as a solid unit. He even manages to rescue his healer with a quick daze on a mob, saving her from an unfortunate backstab by an unseen foe. The assault is won with ease, and that evening he is welcomed by his group to share in all the spoils with a celebratory hobbit-size meal....

    The Day After.........

    Imaginary Day 1... Hunter wakes, quick rinse in Lake Evendim, dons fresh leathers, before deftly trapping up a brace of coneys for his group(thanks to his fresh leathers he can once again lay traps without detection).
    After a hearty hobbit-made breakfast cheerfully cooked by the hobbit burglar, with many laughs shared all around, his group gears up and sets out to assault Haudh Valandil in Annuminas.
    He travels with his group sharing stories, and when the moment of combat arrives, his team knows they can count on him to have their backs, remove corruptions and even distract unruly foes who are intent on reaching his healer.
    That night after another successful assault, he even notices his healer glancing shyly at him over the campfire.... Life is Good!!!!!


    Top 10 reasons hunters like to stand 1 mile from combat (ok it's really 80 meters or whatever your max range is):

    (answers taken from polling various hunters over many months)

    10 Because watching the tank chase mobs is awesome!!....

    9: Because I can kill it before it reaches me anyway...

    8: Because it's easier to see whats going on from far away....

    7: Because I am a RANGED DPS....

    6: Because I am too lazy to move.....

    5: Because I lose focus if I move....

    4: Because I like watching my arrows fly...

    3: Because my melee dps is NOT DPS...

    2:Because it's cool!....

    1: Because I can!....

    Top 10 reasons why Hunters Should stand in melee range during combat:

    10 It's good to be liked...

    9: It's good to be able to find groups.....

    8: It's good to contribute to your group in some however small way....
    .
    7: Your few useful melee skills (dazing blow and melee corruption removal etc) need to be used oh wait in melee range....

    6: When you pull agro from 1 mile away(sure blame the tank) now everyone has to chase it down causing a sad loss of dps....

    5: When you pull agro in a raid from 1 mile away you will probably wipe the raid (nobody likes a wiper) tank has to chase the mob to get it back, everyone is getting hit by frontal aoe, and yup looks like a wipe(but it`s ok it`s the tanks fault)....

    4: If you happen to get agro, a tank could put shield wall on you (if you were in range and he couldnt get agro back immediately due to cd`s) but guess what the range is on that? 5 meters (unless the guard happens to have the range legacy which extends to 25 I believe) but you are at 1 mile still too far...

    3:Your tank (guard) has a max range of 10 meters for agro leech are you in range? nope....what makes you so special that you dont`t need agro leeched from?....

    2: Your healer has a max skill range of 30 meters, are you getting group heals? nope....

    1: The Important people in your group (ehem the tank, the healer, the melee dps will love you)....


    This post is meant as a satirical commentary and should in no way be taken at face value!

    The poster has never played nor has any intention of playing a hunter any time soon.

    The poster has however seen the above recorded events an innummerable amount of times, chased after hunters to heal them, not chased them and let them die, chased them to get agro back, not chased them and let them die, it is indeed a pet peeve many months in the forming.

    The poster hopes to start a revolution that will 1 day lead to better hunter-nonhunter relations throughout middle earth!

    Overheard Conversation "Did that hunter just pull agro?" "What hun.. oh you mean that dead one?"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    327
    Reasons not to stand in melee range:

    1.) We're squishy, and melee range often means you're taking extra melee aoe damage
    2.) In non-boss fights, if we stand far away we can get out of combat after each of our targets dies, allowing us to use focus (dramatically increases dps on trash pulls in most instances)
    3.) We're a ranged class for a reason, if we keep ourselves in melee range we may as well just be champs without the armor
    4.) In melee range, our autoattacks contribute a significantly lower portion of damage since they're based off of our melee weapons (it isn't huge but it does make a slight difference)

    That said I know what you're saying lol, and I do find myself in melee range more often than not for bosses and such, just so that mobs will be better clustered for AOE and for things like distributed damage, puddles, and all that fun stuff. But I think that when you have 40m range, it's best to use it whenever you can, otherwise being a hunter just loses it's novelty if you're meleeing all the time!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHERUB View Post
    Top 10 reasons why Hunters Should stand in melee range during combat:

    10 It's good to be liked...
    Last I checked, my group likes me just fine no matter where I stand.

    9: It's good to be able to find groups.....
    Indeed, but where you stand doesn't change groups inviting you.

    8: It's good to contribute to your group in some however small way....
    My ranged autoattacks do more than my melee autoattacks, and my ranged attacks do a LOT more damage than my melee attacks.

    7: Your few useful melee skills (dazing blow and melee corruption removal etc) need to be used oh wait in melee range....
    Very rarely is Dazing Blow (for dazing purposes) needed inside of raids. Soloing, you're gonna be in melee range anyway because you're the only one. If your champ isn't doing corruption removal and your hunter is, your group is doing it wrong.

    6: When you pull agro from 1 mile away(sure blame the tank) now everyone has to chase it down causing a sad loss of dps....
    That's the hunter not knowing what aggro management is, not that they're standing in the wrong place.

    5: When you pull agro in a raid from 1 mile away you will probably wipe the raid (nobody likes a wiper) tank has to chase the mob to get it back, everyone is getting hit by frontal aoe, and yup looks like a wipe(but it`s ok it`s the tanks fault)....
    This is literally the exact same point as number 6. Already running out of complaints?

    4: If you happen to get agro, a tank could put shield wall on you (if you were in range and he couldnt get agro back immediately due to cd`s) but guess what the range is on that? 5 meters (unless the guard happens to have the range legacy which extends to 25 I believe) but you are at 1 mile still too far...
    Shield Wall is a silly skill and the tank has better things to do than throwing it on a hunter, namely, getting the aggro back.

    3:Your tank (guard) has a max range of 10 meters for agro leech are you in range? nope....what makes you so special that you dont`t need agro leeched from?....
    A) My tank is usually a warden, which has an aggro leech range of 20 or 25 meters.
    B) My guardian tanks seem to hold aggro over me just fine even if they can't leech from me.

    2: Your healer has a max skill range of 30 meters, are you getting group heals? nope....
    Guess what, your healers aren't gonna be in melee range either. They're gonna be standing 25 meters away from the tank, which means even if a hunter is at max range (40m) that means they're only standing 15m away from the healers. So yeah, pretty sure hunters are getting heals.

    1: The Important people in your group (ehem the tank, the healer, the melee dps will love you)....
    Me standing in melee range will make everyone in my group hate me, since it's nerfing my DPS and raising the chances significantly that I'll die.

  4. #4
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    Let me guess: You must be friends with Lendas, right?

  5. #5
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    Sep 2011
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    AFK in Dol Amroth
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    F
    ​irst of all, you need some rather good reasons if you are going to dps from max range and the same for when you are going to stay in melee range. ​
    While I support the idea of moving 'closer' for w/e reason, closer DOESNT mean melee range 100% of the time.
    Do you ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY have to be in melee range or can you stand 10-15 meters away? Difference is taking unnecessary damage vs taking none.Most people will tell you to move, I tend to just watch and see if they learn.
    I do know for a fact that I take alot less damage on my hunter than I do on my burg- enough that not paying attention on positioning kills you faster than heals can say 'get in range'. Why don't rks/LMs stand in melee range also? Even if I wear heavy armor on my hunter(which i dont) I still won't want to stand in melee range because my auto attacks switch to melee instead of ranged. Thats alot of damage I'm giving up for no reason..setting aside the fact that I''ll be taking alot more damage than your average champ. Its all good though, I'll heal through the damage with my extremely overpowered and should be nerfed agile rejoinder.
    As for being in range of heals, you almost purposely have to stay out of range in this case. Most cases would be being in line of sight. If your healer is standing over 10 meters from tank and you are out of range for heals, what are YOU doing? Not dpsing is what you are doing.
    Chasing a hunter for heals means that one of you didnt have the sense to stand on the same side.
    Hunter---------(40 meters)---------Tank-------(10 meters) Healer
    *Not typed to scale.


    ​actually, none of this makes any sense whatsoever. I don't even play this game anymore.


    So yesterday in GW2....
    some ranger pulled aggro from max range..​

  6. #6
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    tl;dr. Too much RP narrative 0/10, hunter is angsty teenager or something.

    If your points were meant as serious then it's simply a lack of skill on the hunter's part and understandable why no one would like him in a group. Or bad tanking, because I can max my dps on most stuff and never pull and I've only ever met one hunter who could juggle aggro with me, at least on my server.

    Hunter is a mid range class, they aren't really supposed to be at the edge of their capable range, but not in melee. Standing 10 meters away from the tank at most times is good enough to allow him to leech your threat a bit. If you pull, range isn't an issue because you should use beneath notice and the tank will get it back, then drop threat with distracting shot a few times.

    If you really want to know why range is a good thing, roll a burglar or champ and realize how much damage you'll be inexplicably taking. Go to moors on those characters for extra emphasis. I'd like to point out as well, a warden only needs two threat skills on a single target for a hunter to literally have no chance of pulling off them from a flat start (if they know the right skill rotation). Also, shield walling hunter = baaaaad idea.

    Summary: Bad hunters are bad. Good hunters are good. Range has nothing to do with it.
    Last edited by Kajil; Apr 27 2013 at 07:53 PM.

  7. #7
    I'm not very experienced yet with the game neither am I with grouping, but I tend to stand back with the minstrels and pull the stray mobs that sometimes will attack him or her so he can continue with the healing. This way im in range for him to heal me but I am also far enough away to use my ranged skills for DPS.

    It might be a diffrent case at higher levels but so far I have found this to be the case in a few instances, raids and skirms I have run.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arofin View Post
    I'm not very experienced yet with the game neither am I with grouping, but I tend to stand back with the minstrels and pull the stray mobs that sometimes will attack him or her so he can continue with the healing. This way im in range for him to heal me but I am also far enough away to use my ranged skills for DPS.

    It might be a diffrent case at higher levels but so far I have found this to be the case in a few instances, raids and skirms I have run.
    It is good you bring this up as I think it is often forgotten. My experience in raids has always been positive for the fact that I have always chosen to stay well out of range of the main action, behind any aoe waves etc., but certainly within sight and close proximity to wherever my healer and / or LM has parked themselves. I rarely take damage or need heals when I do this and am at the constant ready to essentially off-tank whatever messes with our healers.

    As I play all three of these classes, I consider it part of my job when on my hunter to immediately peel off any trash that advances on my healers/LMs then back to dps'ing main target, unless specifically directed by my raid leader to do otherwise. In my personal experience with this practice I have actually been thanked for preventing wipes rather than being chewed out for causing them.

    Everything else OP mentions (seems like trolling frankly...) has to do with balancing hunter aggro management to the tank's abilities with threat generation and has got nothing whatsoever to do with positioning into melee range, as pulling aggro will happen at range or in melee if this former issue is not worked out.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arofin View Post
    I'm not very experienced yet with the game neither am I with grouping, but I tend to stand back with the minstrels and pull the stray mobs that sometimes will attack him or her so he can continue with the healing. This way im in range for him to heal me but I am also far enough away to use my ranged skills for DPS.

    It might be a diffrent case at higher levels but so far I have found this to be the case in a few instances, raids and skirms I have run.
    You are doing well, young one ^,^




    Dont forget range is good for
    ~RAT (Im complete &&&& and still keep getting it, but w/ever)
    ~situational awareness
    ~staying still (for focus)

    and what they said
    ~Survival
    ~autoattacks
    ~lazyness on my part, etc

    and whatever i missed.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Imagine! What life could be like if hunters stood in melee range!



    They would die like Burglars do now?

    *runs away*
    [CENTER][SIZE=1]MINSTREL and member of the vocal minority[/SIZE][/CENTER]

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kajil View Post
    tl;dr. Too much RP narrative 0/10, hunter is angsty teenager or something.

    If your points were meant as serious then it's simply a lack of skill on the hunter's part and understandable why no one would like him in a group. Or bad tanking, because I can max my dps on most stuff and never pull and I've only ever met one hunter who could juggle aggro with me, at least on my server.

    Hunter is a mid range class, they aren't really supposed to be at the edge of their capable range, but not in melee. Standing 10 meters away from the tank at most times is good enough to allow him to leech your threat a bit. If you pull, range isn't an issue because you should use beneath notice and the tank will get it back, then drop threat with distracting shot a few times.

    If you really want to know why range is a good thing, roll a burglar or champ and realize how much damage you'll be inexplicably taking. Go to moors on those characters for extra emphasis. I'd like to point out as well, a warden only needs two threat skills on a single target for a hunter to literally have no chance of pulling off them from a flat start (if they know the right skill rotation). Also, shield walling hunter = baaaaad idea.

    Summary: Bad hunters are bad. Good hunters are good. Range has nothing to do with it.
    There is no call to mock the OP. It was an amusing and clever way to frame the argument.

    I would agree with the OP if the hunter's melee attacks were worth getting into melee range to use, but as it is I think they are more suitable for solo play to help survive when you don't have someone else to hold aggro. Maybe some hunter somewhere has found a way to make them worth using in a group, but I haven't so far with my hunter at level 52.

  12. #12
    Generally, when forced into Melee range, say distributed AOE/moving out of puddles/whatever, a decent DPS rotation is to hit

    Scourging>PenShot>Barbed>PenSh ot>Quickshot/Agile Rejoinder/Filler skill(Letting the Barbed tick a bit) then back into Scourging.

    Decent DPS for point-blank on a Hunter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Othniel View Post
    There is no call to mock the OP. It was an amusing and clever way to frame the argument.

    I would agree with the OP if the hunter's melee attacks were worth getting into melee range to use, but as it is I think they are more suitable for solo play to help survive when you don't have someone else to hold aggro. Maybe some hunter somewhere has found a way to make them worth using in a group, but I haven't so far with my hunter at level 52.
    At level cap, melee kills hunters. End. There are even mobs in some of the endgame content now that have 360 degree AoEs specifically to prevent squishies from getting too close.
    Last edited by Kajil; May 05 2013 at 12:32 AM.

 

 

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