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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Finland
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    2,469
    So, apparently this means the questlist is gone as well? Granted, it was often outdated but for the long time it was the best tool for a completionist to copy-paste that list to Excel and print out some to-do lists and things like that LOTRO-Wiki did not have all the quests and it was often outdated as well.

    Or could it be that we finally get some kind of questlist-tool that directly imports the quest and item info from the game database?

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    547
    Badly handled game is a badly handled game.

    Really it comes as no surprise that they would further hinder the honest players to advance and protect the dishonest players.

    Also, great job avoiding the pvmp remarks sapience, it must make things much easier to pretend we aren't here.
    What is it? What do you smell?

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Phoenix AZ, USA
    Posts
    191
    A lot of a MMO for me has always been access to charater and game info out of game. I do the evaluation and information lookup when I'm not able to play, what have I done, what gear do I have, what is my progress.

    I guess I should not be supprised as it was easy to see the system breaking down instead of getting better and inproving.The end result of poor software organization, planning, and managment. Not saying a lot of work, skill and effort was not use but if not directed in an organized way...

    The forums has basicly been the only part that has worked most of the time, maybe not perfectly.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000000716b/01007/signature.png]Uadan[/charsig]

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    3,550
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Which is why we posted over a month ago asking people to list those that should be saved, and why we've made it clear those who created them (or those who wish to save them) should take the time to copy them out (maybe update them) and hang on to them so they can be posted when we open the player guides forum.

    One can complain, or one can take action and preserve them using the announced option we're giving you. That's why we're giving notice and creating the forum. So those that wish to do so can save what they deem worth saving.
    There's no way to get traction on this within 4 weeks. Just look how long it takes you to change anything about these frontends. The only thing that could be done is let a web robot loose on the whole thing which is probably good for nobody, especially if several of us do that in an uncoordinated manner.

    To do this the proper legal way with reposting the original authors would have to come in (they are the only ones who can legally re-post this elsewhere) and they probably won't even learn about this within 4 weeks.

    I think maybe passing this on to a council member who runs a mediawiki anyway, as a database dump, would be much better.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    36
    Will there be any future plans to implement a data.lotro.com type replacement? I understand that the current form will disappear completely, but will there be a replacement way to access game related data outside the game in some future update?
    Did I Err?

  6. #81
    I use my.lotro.data a lot, and will definitely miss it. But, the forums are almost unusable as they are, so I guess I'm in favor of this change (grudgingly).

    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    Ah found it, you can export and import pages or whole categories here ...

    http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Special:Export
    Thank you Edrogar! I'd give you rep, but that's going away anyway heh...

    I was able to export most of my pages.

    I tried importing them to LotROWiki http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Special:Import but you need to be an administrator. Anyone know an admin there?
    [CENTER] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/mosby/"][COLOR=cyan]Mosby[/COLOR][/URL], Founder of [URL="http://www.thepalantiri.net"][COLOR=gold]The Palantíri[/COLOR][/URL] kinship (Landroval) - [URL="http://lotro-charts.tumblr.com/"]LotRO Charts Tumblr[/URL] - [URL="https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Translations"]Runes & Translations[/URL]

    [COLOR=Silver][I]As glides in seas the shark, Rides Mosby through green dark.[/I] -Melville[/COLOR]
    [/CENTER]

  7. #82
    I won't forget when I ran into a random blog by someone I didn't know http://my.lotro.com/user-111482/ and I loved it

    Read a lot of random lorebook entries from the game how it was before I played it
    Having different things added to the experience to me and I bet it did to others, very sad to see it go just like that.

    Removal of leader-boards...Don't really know what the reasoning behind this is, not much purpose of having a lotro site without leader-boards imho, lol... the forum part is mainly empty talk, someone complaining or just raging if it's the pvmp forums.
    Having the option of seeing what is going on in the moors, if anything at all via dailystats page by gains had yesterday and before is a great thing, having someone to compete against is also a good thing, imo. Now that is going away as well, sigh.

    I just find the lack of response to PVMP-ers questions/comments so very, very ugly. Not even a
    No, we do not plan to put up new l-boards. or We don't know yet, I will look into it. or Yes, we will do something about it.
    Just an ignore option, I really feel like I am part of the unwelcome section of the game.

    *edit* Can't also forget how useful my.lotro has been for checking peoples stats like tactical mitigation for traiting to 1v1 them sometimes or checking out builds by good players, yet another thing lost for quikcer posting :/
    Last edited by Nifroth; Apr 25 2013 at 06:34 PM.


    Lotro PVP Videos l Thorfinn || r14 champ, r12 burglar- Crickhollow || r11//r9 warg Crick//Elendilmir || + other stuff

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    246
    What will actually be left on the "community site" ?

    Just a basic forum and the lottery ? - I have to admit I normally only come to the site to check on deeds / charactors and items like a lot of people - most of us have forums already that don't have LOTRO.com trolls on them

    occasionally when there is a link on the launcher thats of interest i will copy and paste it into my browser ( BTW that is still really annoying that default browser wont work on the launcher adds )

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaGranny View Post
    occasionally when there is a link on the launcher thats of interest i will copy and paste it into my browser ( BTW that is still really annoying that default browser wont work on the launcher adds )
    You will be pleased to know that the rebuilt launcher we're currently testing with Update 11 on Bullroarer opens links in your system's default browser, at least on Windows PCs.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    246
    I noticed the launcher change but its not certain that it will go live as I understand it . It wa bonkers them not fixing it as it meant their marketing wasn't reaching a lot of people so it made economic sense to fix it quickly .

    But as people have said the removal of the useful services on the "community site" will mean less people using it anyway.

  11. #86
    To summarize: +Improvement -Regression =Indifferent
    Forums - new look, better performance. +
    Lottery - new widget. =
    Lorebook - gone. -
    Guides - moved. =
    MyLotRO - blogs gone. -
    character & kin data gone. -
    character copy moved. =
    referral system moved. =

    So the result is one system improved (two if you count the lotto widget, which I don't), four systems with no usage change, and three systems removed. Look up at the tabs across the top of the page. After the update only the following of the current tabs will likely remain on this community site:
    Home - Store - News - Support - Forums - Calendar - Get Points
    Of those, the home page only shows a summary of other stuff and the store, news, support, and get points are all available separately on LOTRO.com. Only the forums and calendar will remain uniquely here, and even the forums have a link to them on LOTRO.com. (EDIT: I guess the lottery is still here too, just without a tab.)

    It seems to me that the "Community Site" is just becoming the forum site, while Turbine focuses on directing everyone to the main site for everything else. On its own I don't even think that to be a bad idea, but losing so many features and systems - without a replacement - that at the least a notable part of players use, is not pleasing or encouraging. I understand the need to fix the forums, and that this may have required all the changes being made, but my hope is that this is a beginning of a rebuilding process that will bring back at least some of these lost functions - sooner rather than later.

    If at first you don't succeed, try again. Don't just give up.
    Last edited by ret_ed; Apr 25 2013 at 08:43 PM.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    225
    Hm... destroying dailystats as a 'fix' for fightclubbing/boxing - by hiding the clear evidence?

    I haven't logged my freeps in close to a year, and had even stopped reading the lotro forums (hard-data trumps epeen-claims), but every day I can I play creepside and check the dailystats. Destroying the dailystats reduces my engagement with game... good one Turbine/WB.

    No wonder I can't even be bothered to peruse the Helm's Deep press release... and this from a serious Tolkien fan...

    Argh! I'm not saying I'm about to /ragequit, but this move doesn't enhance my game experience, so 'thank you not' Turbine
    Last edited by Bootroz; Apr 25 2013 at 10:14 PM. Reason: typing error
    Vulfen cpt 100

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootroz View Post
    Hm... destroying dailystats as a 'fix' for fightclubbing/boxing - by hiding the clear evidence?

    I haven't logged my freeps in close to a year, and had even stopped reading the lotro forums (hard-date trumps epeen-claims), but every day I can I play creepside and check the dailystats. Destroying the dailystats reduces my engagement with game... good one Turbine/WB.

    No wonder I can't even be bothered to peruse the Helm's Deep press release... and this from a serious Tolkien fan...

    Argh! I'm not saying I'm about to /ragequit, but this move doesn't enhance my game experience, so 'thank you not' Turbine
    I'm not sure why so many players think Turbine's motivation for these changes is to hide PvMP statistics. Those are just another floor in the same teetering data.lotro.com skyscraper that is about to be hit by a giant wrecking ball.

    Perhaps without having to continue pouring money into these unreliable systems, Turbine will be able to invest more of its limited money in the game itself.

    I realize PvMP is competitive, and it's easier to feel competitive when you know how everyone else is performing. But perhaps without daily statistics sites to distract them, players will spend more time actually playing the game. Personally, I enjoyed PvMP for more than a year before I even discovered the leaderboards. They update so infrequently for Brandywine that I stopped looking at them shortly after I found them.

    Maybe each player will just have to compete with himself or herself, and focus on improving his or her own performance each day. It's probably not not as exciting this way, but for me, PvMP is still more fun than trying to beat my previous high score on Minesweeper.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by hucklebarry View Post
    Doing whatever it takes to make the forums usable is worth doing. That said, character data, I feel, is going in the wrong direction. LOTRO was already significantly behind other MMO's with the out-of-game tools that players had. This really does minimalize things.

    Happy for the changes, but sad about the removal of character/kin data. I was really hoping to see those beefed up to even more useful services.
    Agreed. Will be sad to see the character data go. I use it regularly when crafting gear for my toons.
    .
    Landroval: Pierceya, Wislak, Goodeva, Novat

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    I'm not sure why so many players think Turbine's motivation for these changes is to hide PvMP statistics. Those are just another floor in the same teetering data.lotro.com skyscraper that is about to be hit by a giant wrecking ball.
    PvMP statistics are not the part I'm going to miss, glff will be a much more peaceful place.

    I'll miss the character-equip data that lets me get a rough idea of how geared someone's alt is if they're annon, or not logged into that character (It takes me upwards of 8 minutes to log in a level capped character)

    I'll miss the ability to tell someone that yes, their hunter will be just fine even though they're on their level 10 warden that they created this morning and I've never once talked to and can't remember which at the drop of the hat from anyone else that their capped-character will do, because the ability to associate multiple characters to a user without their input will be gone. I can't respond to everyone who sends me a tell sometimes because of the anti-spam tech put in to stop gold-sellers. That means when I've spent hours looking for people already I'll be more likely to take someone on their a level-capped character, rather than giving someone new a chance, even though there's no other logical reason to do so.

    Its hard enough to get people to do the larger-group content, even more so if its more difficult (T2 Flight/T2 BFE), or less frequently run (OD). I just hope something else will help overcome the additional time it's going to take to get people together to run the content. Whether or not that's IF going up to Raid-sized content, or something else I've got no ideas what else to use.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  16. #91
    [QUOTE=Sapience;6759961]
    [*]Forum performance will be improved.

    About bloody time. How about also

    a) admitting that more than a "very few" number of people are affected by forum slowdowns
    b) apologising for the abyssmal forum performance as well

    It took me 15 minutes to write this post, 5 minutes and 8 clicks to open up the forum page and an astonishing 8 minutes waiting for the reply page to load after clicking reply with quote.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    64

    Thumbs down R.I.P

    If it's such a hassle to give users what they want/need on this site, perhaps it would be better to kill all of it
    I mean I post here at the forums from time to time and like it to be swift and working smooth, but I also check toons from out-of-game several times a week and on kin site we extract data from data.lotro.com for some things.

    That would die now. Removing API to get a better performing forum seem to be quite unrelated to me.

    If you can only make one working perhaps you should just hand in the towel and kill all of it and put your resources into the game instead.

    I bet most kinships have their own forums but I don't think many of us have their own api to get lotro gear and char information.. lotro.com R.I.P and I'll stay in-game more instead..
    Screemer leader of MYTH of Eldar, rank 10 kinship on [EU] Evernight transferred from [EU] Eldar, a small really close kinship.
    http://www.mythkin.eu Signup: Here!

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    77
    Interesting changes coming. Please, please, please, let there be an ability to change the colour scheme, or one that isn't harsh black-and-blue. It hurts (and damages) the eyes.
    I changed the colour scheme using the changer tool to a mild mixture of desaturated greens. It looks so much better compared to the default.

    I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but that's a BIG factor in whether or not I'll visit the site reguarly. If it hurts my eyes then I will just stop visiting at all. Hell, when there's an announcement (e.g the Anniversary page set up earlier this month), I often highlight all the text or copy it into Notepad so it's easier to read, because the text is white on a black background on such pages.

    Otherwise, I don't like that the Lorebook is going, and the stats that external sites use. There is a great, though old, LI guide that I read through quite a bit to get a handle on how everything works. There's a great Kinship one, too, which explains a lot that isn't mentioned anywhere in-game. I guess I'll have to save a copy to my computer.
    Does this mean that LotRO StatCheck will no longer work? I use it quite often, it's a handy little thing.

    --- Grr! I got logged out three times in the process of posting this. Lucky I had it copied to Notepad. Each time I signed in, I had to:
    - use the log in form three times;
    - open up the thread again, only to be logged out again;
    - copy and paste the post back in again.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Soon we will be making several significant changes and updates to the LOTRO community websites. Some features of the existing community site will be upgraded, while others will be discontinued.


    Forums
    The forums are going to be upgraded to a slightly newer version of VBulletin.
    Did you guys consider Xenforo? It's actually a LOT slicker than VBulletin, though I like both for certain things!


    MyLOTRO
    Several MyLOTRO components will be moving to LOTRO.com or retiring. Details are as follows:

    The current player blog functionality will be discontinued. We are investigating ways of bringing blogging to players in the community site, but in the meantime existing player blogs can be exported for use at a later time. Exporting your blog will create an XML file containing all your blog entries, comments, and images, which can be imported into a variety of blogging platforms.
    Please say you'll apply this to your blogs, Sapience? Particularly your "History of soon"!

    Character and guild data will be discontinued. Please note that this will also impact any systems that rely on character data including PVMP leaderboards, Character Signatures, and API functionality (data.lotro.com).
    Will there be a new format for character signatures? Or an alternative?

    The Character Copy tool is being revamped and migrated to LOTRO.com.
    US to EU migrations? Please?

    Thank you! In all, this looks amazing!
    [center]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e00000024232f/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [/center]

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    246
    By making this announcement on the forums rather than launcher a heck of a lot of people are going to get caught out . A friend pointed this post out to me as they wondered if it will effect the kin and alliance sites, hence I noticed it but a load of people are just going to suddenly find that their kinsites stop working . The answer is yes - it will kill most of the sites , we can still have forums and calenders BUT the rosters alts kit deeds etc. all dead - hence i have just deleted most of the sites and cancelled contracts , but I'm a lucky one as the kinsites were just about to come up for yearly renew and i'm not wasting money on kinsites that are just forums/calenders when i can run these for next to no cost elsewhere .

    Personally I hate forums for MMORPG's as it just attracts trolls and stops people actually interacting in the game , but thats just a personal opinion .

    After the useful bits of the community site go will i bother with the site at all ? Well I use it every day currently, after the changes I can't see me ever using it .

    As all data is server side it makes alts / characters/ crafting / deeding very tough to keep track of without a data dump. We aren't allowed to save charactors locally so the community site WAS our lifeline . Im investigating the LUA and there looks to be a way of saving inventory for all chars locally but not kit or stats ( but lUA is beta and not supported either so may suddenly die as well) . Basically it is going to make some aspects of the game a real chore now and some people will loose the will . Ill carry on playing as the game is good but ill probalby get rid of a few alts as the time needed to deal with them will be too much .

    UNLESS turbine is going to give us something - it doesnt have to be pretty it can just be like data.lotro a db dump there are more than enough people who will make that work - im sure someone would even do things for the pvpers as well .

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by kyrelenblackstone View Post
    US to EU migrations? Please?
    You must have missed the post Sapience made yesterday saying this will never happen because Turbine have decided they won't spend the money to make it work:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...61#post6761161

    In the end and cost and risk (it would have involved major changes to character data and server IDs in some cases) was simply too great.
    The 'risk' excuse of course is pretty specious, competent programmers/designers don't 'lose' data, so the reason for them not doing it is entirely financial.

    Note this is the first time as far as I know that Turbine have publicly stated they have no intention of ever making this happen.
    Last edited by Kerin_Eldar; Apr 26 2013 at 10:07 AM.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    You must have missed the post Sapience made yesterday saying this will never happen because Turbine have decided they won't spend the money to make it work:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...61#post6761161


    The 'risk' excuse of course is pretty specious, competent programmers/designers don't 'lose' data, so the reason for them not doing it is entirely financial.
    Bugger! Ah well, thank you so much for the link!
    [center]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e00000024232f/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [/center]

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,943
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilean-EU View Post
    So, apparently this means the questlist is gone as well? Granted, it was often outdated but for the long time it was the best tool for a completionist to copy-paste that list to Excel and print out some to-do lists and things like that LOTRO-Wiki did not have all the quests and it was often outdated as well.

    Or could it be that we finally get some kind of questlist-tool that directly imports the quest and item info from the game database?
    The reason that LOTRO-Wiki.com is not complete or is outdated is the simple fact that NONE of the information in it comes from Turbine!!!

    All of the posted information is acquired by Players playing the game and being willing to take the time to capture and post that information on the Wiki. It is an extremely time-consuming and tedious process.

    Areas which are well documented and current are areas where there are multiple people interested enough and dedicated enough to keep them current. Other areas are simply of minimal interest to the players who post on the Wiki. Many editors have been playing LOTRO since release in 2007.

    If you want more and more current information -- I urge you to join the Wiki editorial staff! It's open to anyone with an interest in LOTRO. ... and it's a WIKI!

    BTW, one of the biggest "issues" is ALWAYS changes in quest lists -- the two recent Moria revamps are the best example. Moria has many new quests, old quests "moved" and a surprisingly large number of old quests -- "dropped" -- i.e. no longer available, but still in people's quest logs! It does get confusing when you try to update things! And the only way to update an area like that ... roll up a new character and "run 'em through!" As I said, time-consuming and tedious work.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden
    Sr. Editor LOTRO-Wiki.com

    Val - Man Minstrel (91)
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    Valwood - Dwarf RK (81)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (71)
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    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  24. #99
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    The Highlands of Scotland
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    5,421
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    The 'risk' excuse of course is pretty specious, competent programmers/designers don't 'lose' data, so the reason for them not doing it is entirely financial.
    You think? There are things I ought to do to our companies database that I'm putting off for as long as possible as they are too high risk to be justifiable unless the alternative is worse. Anything that involves remapping unique IDs has way too much scope for causing catastrophic damage. In general, rendering the company unable to do business, even for as long as it takes to restore a backup, tends to be a career-limiting event. May be in 5 years, just before I retire, I might be prepared to give it some thought.
    TANSTAAFL

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    The 'risk' excuse of course is pretty specious, competent programmers/designers don't 'lose' data,
    ... because competent database adminstrators restrict their access.

    so the reason for them not doing it is entirely financial.
    Loosing money for not transfering chars is a reason.


    Note this is the first time as far as I know that Turbine have publicly stated they have no intention of ever making this happen.
    You missed
    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeNoctem View Post
    Hello all,

    As has been previously stated before, if we are able to transfer characters between the EU and NA servers in the future, this sticky will be updated. However, it is not likely that this service will ever be available.

    -Carpe Noctem
    Wer Hilfe will, muss Informationen liefern.
    >> Lotro World transfer status <<

 

 
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