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  1. #1

    Will Helm's Deep be the next PvMP zone?

    When I saw the announcement this morning, the fact that players can start participating at level 10 baffled me. At level 10, you barely have any skills and would be instakilled in a level 95 area. Then it hit me--monster play. I'm guessing that Helm's Deep will feature a session style play as a soldier on one or both sides. Even the wording makes sense:
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    Fight to defend Helm’s Deep starting at level 10, as your character enlists as a soldier in the Battle of the Hornburg, the most massive conflict yet in The Lord of the Rings Online.
    As the most massive conflict yet--that's got to be PvMP, currently the most massive conflict is in the Ettenmoors.

    Also, look at how monster play is described in the official page:

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    Take an occasional break from adventuring with LOTRO's unique Player vs. Monster Player (PvMP) combat. In PvMP you enlist as a soldier for Sauron! Fight as brutish Uruk-hai, vicious Orc, cunning Warg, or stealthy Spider. Gain Infamy and Renown as a servant of the Dark Lord, or bring your heroic character to the Ettenmoors to challenge Monster Players in exciting combat. No matter which side you choose, victory in PvMP brings riches and rewards in the form of armour, weapons, and more.
    In both, the wording is "Enlist as a soldier". That's got to be it.

    --Harper
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  2. #2
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    I'll try to put this as simply as I can, in a way that is completely unambiguous.

    No.

  3. #3
    its probably gonna be that skirms will become lvl 10, and that Helms deep is gonna be one of the first skrims

  4. #4
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    can you really imagine that as pvmp? and level 10...you can do storm on methedras starting at lvl 20...its in dunland with lvl ~65-70 mobs orginally. plus i believe it's as low as 10 because: 1) at level 10 you already start to see that a certain class is what it's supposed to be (vaguely, but you can) and 2) in the REAL (that is; book) battle for helms deep, little kids and the eldery also fought which is where lore comes into this.
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  5. #5
    I've got a hard time believing level 10 will fight alongside level 95. There must be some sort of session play going on here. Perhaps a coop version of PvMP where you can play as a soldier or your own character? Or maybe just session play straight up. As a skirmish, it would make no sense to advertise front and center.

    --Harper
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  6. #6
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    I highly doubt we would have a level 10 fighting with a level 95 as the disparity between the classes is far too great. The level 10 would not have any ability to cause significant damage to the mob or it would be a cake walk for the 95 as mobs would have to be low enough for the 10 character to really be a contributing factor.

    Then again we shall see. I wonder if they will use more of the server engines that create a different view for a person based on where they are in the game. So a level 10 would see a level 95 fighting, but the level 10 would not see the mob (this is like Hytbold where if I haven't finished all of the quests, I don't see the entire town completed).

    However Turbine decides to accomplish this, I like the idea of having "noobs" or low level toons have a different way to progress in the game besides the classic (and really only ways) of going through Thorin's Gate/Archet/Shire etc..

    That is probably one of the biggest downfalls of releasing an expansion for only high levels as anyone joining the game to see Isenguard (for example) is instantly left out until they get closer in level to when they can even make it down there. Also if I want to see Moria, I have to complete the intro quest at level 45 before I can even step foot into Moria. This is a great way to open new content to people who might get hooked on the game because of one of these new areas and could care less about what is already available.

    It also helps those who only role a main and no alts to consider one as this would give a different leveling experience then what we have already.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I'll try to put this as simply as I can, in a way that is completely unambiguous.

    No.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Harperelle View Post
    I've got a hard time believing level 10 will fight alongside level 95. There must be some sort of session play going on here. Perhaps a coop version of PvMP where you can play as a soldier or your own character? Or maybe just session play straight up. As a skirmish, it would make no sense to advertise front and center.

    --Harper
    I'd assume it will be a continuation of what we saw with the Hytbold rebuild.
    Lots of instanced solo session plays/skirmishes with different objectives and you need to have some objectives done before you can move on to others.

    Possibly later objectives are not only gated by previous objectives but also by level.

  9. #9
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    I'd imagine that it's going to be much more similar to a combination of skirmishes and hytbold. Only a guess, but it may be something like we have a new "level 10" soldier that we become through the story of the battle of the hornburg, and as we complete parts of it, that virtual soldier will level up and accomplish more. It likely won't be our characters fighting in the battle, as according to the books they wouldn't be there, so this is a way to get us in the battles, and do portions of it, bit by bit. Something new to level besides our character (and LI, and warsteed, and skirm soldier), and as it gets stronger and higher level it unlocks other parts of Helm's Deep for us to fight in.

    Just a speculation. It's very very early and I'm sure they will be explaining and giving us details later on when the time is right. Right now all they are doing is giving us a very brief taste to stir interest and it would be silly to read to much into it.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sirwillow View Post
    I'd imagine that it's going to be much more similar to a combination of skirmishes and hytbold. Only a guess, but it may be something like we have a new "level 10" soldier that we become through the story of the battle of the hornburg, and as we complete parts of it, that virtual soldier will level up and accomplish more. It likely won't be our characters fighting in the battle, as according to the books they wouldn't be there, so this is a way to get us in the battles, and do portions of it, bit by bit. Something new to level besides our character (and LI, and warsteed, and skirm soldier), and as it gets stronger and higher level it unlocks other parts of Helm's Deep for us to fight in.

    Just a speculation. It's very very early and I'm sure they will be explaining and giving us details later on when the time is right. Right now all they are doing is giving us a very brief taste to stir interest and it would be silly to read to much into it.
    Yeah I pretty much would speculate in that direction as well.

    Now I wonder how much freedom in developing that into different roles you would have i.e. tank, warrior, healer, ranged, etc...

    I also wonder if the main character gets any advancement for doing this as well or if the advancement would then be solely confined to Helm's Deep.

  11. #11
    I fail to see why people think it would be a PVMP zone. Turbine has already made it abundantly clear they have no plans to add a new PVMP zone in the last developer chat as of the near future.

    They are pushing content to the masses which Sapience has mostly confirmed to in the past being solo players versus raiders or PVMP. So Helms Deep -- though it would make for awesome raids and PVMP - will instead be done something more like Hytbold or scaleable instances. A horse could quickly take a level 10 to Helm's Deep and any solo instances could be scaled to their level. Build up the defenses of Helm's Deep- escort missions to bring townsfolk - supply gathering -- kill enemy scouting parties -- do scouting for future escape; diplomatic missions for reinforcements etc.. etc...

    Then the epic story line will push you to the battle of Helm's Deep and it will be like what happened with a lot of the Isengard bigger battles. Lots of action all around you for only 2-3 enemies to fight at a time. Perhaps the amount of preparation you prepared will show up in the fight. Also, this will please the most people, encourage people who have never played LOTRO to join and fight in Helms Deep, and Turbine can hope the diehard raiders and PVMP will stick on for the hope of a future raid or PVMP area.

    But then again - we have a brief announcement with little information as is typical so most of this is speculation.
    Noldor of Arkenstone

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I'll try to put this as simply as I can, in a way that is completely unambiguous.

    No.
    Thank you, Sapience, for your brevity, which is the soul of wit.

    Can you answer another question? Will all our Rohirric characters at Helm's Deep be male?

    There is certainly text evidence for one female Rohir fighter. This certainly implies that there have been, or will be, others. There is also text evidence for Eowyn's having been the only woman who fought on the Pelennor -- which I suspect will be another set-up like Helm's Deep, with us playing Rohirric and Gondorian characters, all presumably male.

    /shrug

    I can play a male character if that's what's on offer.
    Last edited by djheydt; Apr 24 2013 at 01:31 PM.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliaf View Post
    can you really imagine that as pvmp? and level 10...you can do storm on methedras starting at lvl 20...its in dunland with lvl ~65-70 mobs orginally. plus i believe it's as low as 10 because: 1) at level 10 you already start to see that a certain class is what it's supposed to be (vaguely, but you can) and 2) in the REAL (that is; book) battle for helms deep, little kids and the eldery also fought which is where lore comes into this.
    Well, not little kids. Teenagers without their full growth (in other words, about fourteen). The really little kids, along with [most of?] the women, were back in the caves of Aglarond where they would be safe, at least till the men were all dead.

    In any case, it's becoming clear that the same mechanism will be used as in creating a creep for the Moors: your minimum-of-level-10 character is allowed to make a level 95 Rohir which will be confined to the Helm's Deep region.

    It would be interesting if we were allowed to make Rohirrim characters who are obviously teenagers or elderly.

    /e visualizes a seventy-year-old Lore-master who needs his staff for other things than setting his opponents on fire.....
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yaksha42 View Post
    [img]gif[/img]
    LOL be careful you don't want someone "deeming this content inappropriate at the discretion of the Turbine Community Team."
    Last edited by voalkrynn2; Apr 24 2013 at 02:22 PM.
    A vote for Sapience is a vote for progress? A 4th fix to get Draigoch to "dragon up" that still doesn't fix the persistent bug in the raid is not how I define progress.

  15. #15
    Lvl 10s will be throwing stones, pouring boiling oil, carrying arrows, that sort of thing.
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  16. #16
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I'll try to put this as simply as I can, in a way that is completely unambiguous.

    No.
    LOL. When i read the Op i was ready to answer like that and when i turn the page down i saw it was already taken.

    Actually even without the formal answer i can say for sure that it wouldnt be something like that.

    PVmp zones has also Evil Fortresses and spiders and orcs and trolls for enemies.Monsters that clearly wasnt on the Big fight.

    Needless to say that PVmP is for Vip Only so...you understand it is pointless...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelethor View Post
    LOL. When i read the Op i was ready to answer like that and when i turn the page down i saw it was already taken.

    Actually even without the formal answer i can say for sure that it wouldnt be something like that.

    PVmp zones has also Evil Fortresses and spiders and orcs and trolls for enemies.Monsters that clearly wasnt on the Big fight.

    Needless to say that PVmP is for Vip Only so...you understand it is...
    It doesn't make you more grown up if you make fun of others ideas.
    no offense
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  19. #19
    has anyone considered it could be new form of session play that unlocks at lvl 10?
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Faenyl View Post
    It doesn't make you more grown up if you make fun of others ideas.
    no offense
    It doesnt make you smart either to think that you understand someone when you clearly dont..
    no offense.

    I lol cause i saw the answer that I was about to type down. Then i change paragraph and said my opinion...
    No making fun...

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Craigsjourney View Post
    has anyone considered it could be new form of session play that unlocks at lvl 10?
    That's my feeling. It would be the same basic mechanic of chicken play. Only the chickens are bigger and carry spears.

    There's a PvMP mechanic like this too, where you can play as a troll or a ranger if you pay with a certain currency. But its more like chicken play in that you would get a reward for successful completion. I imagine they would extend the customization hooks to allow everyone to make their own unique Rohan soldier. Probably all Rohirrim, but male and female and different cosmetic and skill unlocks the more you play. In that way, it would be more like a creep character.

    I've got some open questions though....
    1) What kind of reward is meaningful from 10-95? Marks? EXP? A new currency?
    2) How much customization will there be to your Helm's Deep soldier?
    3) What sort of quests will be available in this form of play?
    4) Will normal level-capped characters be able to fight alongside?
    5) Will your soldier have gear and an inventory?
    6) Will your soldier "spawn" or "login" each time? Spawn at a point, or resume where you left off.
    7) Will session players and non session players be able to communicate?
    8) What name will the soldier have?

    That's all pure speculation based on the assumption: Helm's Deep soldier-play will be a session play option open to all players above level 10.

    --Harper
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