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  1. #1

    maxing my DPS on a Training dummy

    OK so let me first say a couple things... 1 it's annoying how the dummy in Snowbourn forces you out of combat randomly. What the heck? 2. I want to ask what kind of SINGLE TARGET damage you guys can do on your 85 hunters.

    So, if you have combat analysis, what do you get on the training dummy in snowbourne? I can start out inbetween 2000-3000 but always end up around 1200-1300 dps. This is traited 4 red and 3 blue. I have looked around for the best skill rotation and item build (just working with what I got for now) but all the videos and posts I find are pretty old. Thanks for reading look forward to the replies
    Can I has fixed Fornost and ITA lootboxes?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by masumane View Post
    OK so let me first say a couple things... 1 it's annoying how the dummy in Snowbourn forces you out of combat randomly. What the heck? 2. I want to ask what kind of SINGLE TARGET damage you guys can do on your 85 hunters.

    So, if you have combat analysis, what do you get on the training dummy in snowbourne? I can start out inbetween 2000-3000 but always end up around 1200-1300 dps. This is traited 4 red and 3 blue. I have looked around for the best skill rotation and item build (just working with what I got for now) but all the videos and posts I find are pretty old. Thanks for reading look forward to the replies
    I time my parses at around the minute mark because I can usually get the resets within a few seconds, sometimes perfectly breaking combat the moment i stop attacking. Though the resets dont really bother hunters as much unlike burgs getting their tricks/reveal resetted. Unless you are using bleeds(which ive found to lower my dps a little on the short parses but evens it out on the longer ones).

    I would say that a fully decked hunter(with pretty much everything) will regularly hit over 2k on the nemesis dummies- which would prob. equal close to 3k dps(if not over) on actual instance bosses.
    Most very well geared raiding hunters would probably hit anywhere from 1500-1700 over 60seconds.Some maybe 1800-1900 if they have perfect rotations with nice crit/dev chains.
    Though when people first started getting hytbold gear, dps peaked around like 1400-1500 if im not mistaken. Theres a thread from awhile back where people were posting consistent 1400s(high 1300s with bad resets).
    Though I'm not sure what your setup looks like, mind posting it?would help alot.

    On a side note- Bringing back the old thread 'Hunters 3rd or 4th dps class' i think that this is no longer true(though i didnt really even believe it in the first place back at 75).Sorry haters, but hunters are in a very good position for single target dps atm. Nothing wrong with our dps. Maybe your rotation or your setup or your sister down the hall slowing your connection with the One D torrents or perhaps your neighbor forgot to pay the internet bills again(how irresponsible..) or maybe you forgot to swap back to your main bow after using burn hot 45 minutes ago..i dont know...but its not that 'HUNTER DPS FAILS AGAINTS BURGS AND CHAMPS AND RKS AND LMS AND GUARDS AND WARDENS'.
    Seriously?Rks/LMs outdpsing hunters?
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  3. #3
    Ok that helps. I was wondering earlier when some hunter was posting in GLFF saying he was doing about 4200 dps, but Im pretty sure it was because he was AOEing basically

    My gear is actually still the same 3/3 hytbold huntsman and bowmaster set. I was first grinding for the gold rings, got the wyrmfire one, and then I won a Erebor hunter cloak, which is awesome but made my ring useless and now I'm grinding for a new one all over again :\ Apart from that I still have the LLG jewelry probably holding me back a bit too. I have 4 toons but guess I just can't pick a main one to pimp out.

    Anyway last thing I wanted to mention, I've been messing around with traits and changing everything at bards and going back to combat analysis, I wanted to check out 5 blue cool burn mostly, but I just didn't like it at all, such a huge power cost, while 5 red improved fleetness on the other hand only cost focus really, but you could use it much more often... Not sure if I want to go back to 4/3 because the difference wasn't huge but it was a much simpler way to manage focus. I know a lot of people love improved fleetness so I'd appreciate any feedback on where to go from here.
    Can I has fixed Fornost and ITA lootboxes?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by masumane View Post
    Ok that helps. I was wondering earlier when some hunter was posting in GLFF saying he was doing about 4200 dps, but Im pretty sure it was because he was AOEing basically

    My gear is actually still the same 3/3 hytbold huntsman and bowmaster set. I was first grinding for the gold rings, got the wyrmfire one, and then I won a Erebor hunter cloak, which is awesome but made my ring useless and now I'm grinding for a new one all over again :\ Apart from that I still have the LLG jewelry probably holding me back a bit too. I have 4 toons but guess I just can't pick a main one to pimp out.

    Anyway last thing I wanted to mention, I've been messing around with traits and changing everything at bards and going back to combat analysis, I wanted to check out 5 blue cool burn mostly, but I just didn't like it at all, such a huge power cost, while 5 red improved fleetness on the other hand only cost focus really, but you could use it much more often... Not sure if I want to go back to 4/3 because the difference wasn't huge but it was a much simpler way to manage focus. I know a lot of people love improved fleetness so I'd appreciate any feedback on where to go from here.
    Single target on the nemesis, 2k is amazing. 4200 has to be aoe and prob. on the 75s. Though I must say, hunter aoe is pretty awesome. Coolburned rain of arrows is extremely devastating, even if you are in 4r3b its still really good burst aoe dps. You should try aoeing the last room in school.Room is just big enough that you can tag most mobs if you target the one in the center and rush in.Thats a good way to test your aoeing,deadly if you dont kill enough on the first few hits. you can get over 10k dps there if you kill fast enough(within like...13 seconds?)

    Anyway...
    You should get 4 piece huntsman for the blood arrow cd set bonus. Its a good dps boost and you save power with the increased amount of outgoing blood arrows. I would still keep the 2 bowmaster for the crit multiplier. Since you have the hunter cloak, I would suggest you get the agil proc ring and try to get yourself a teal former residents ring from dungeons of dol guldur. It gives you quite a nice PM boost- no point having multiple same proc items..


    I say grind t1 erebor huntsman and pair that with 2 hytbold bowmaster/huntsman. That would be a solid setup right there, and you can improve it if you grind the hunter pocket(GB), Earrings(Fornost),dagger(Peak/GT/Scuttle).
    Btw you got the colors mixed up; 5blue is imp fleetness and 5red is coolburn but I get what you mean. I used to run 4r3b when i used hytbold huntsman but switched to 5b2r when i got erebor huntsman. I get that 4r3b has better burst dps but most fights are longer than 60seconds and i prefer blueline's consistency in both burst and sustained. The main reason people use imp fleetness is for the faron set bonus (-1 focus cost) which adds up fast. No matter what traitline you use,managing focus is rather easy if you pay attention but its certainly easier to overfocus while in blueline. I think that may be a problem with alot of people over focusing- its such a waste.
    Another good thing about blueline is you dont go through your power as fast. Your power will still suffer if you are focus burning like hell but its not AS bad.
    if it wasnt for erebor huntsman set bonus, I would be using 4r3b and get back the precious outgoing damage % i lost going blue.
    Both setups are solid, go with what you are comfortable with.
    (though i dont know why people build around 5r coolburn but thats just me)
    Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by masumane View Post
    Ok that helps. I was wondering earlier when some hunter was posting in GLFF saying he was doing about 4200 dps, but Im pretty sure it was because he was AOEing basically

    My gear is actually still the same 3/3 hytbold huntsman and bowmaster set. I was first grinding for the gold rings, got the wyrmfire one, and then I won a Erebor hunter cloak, which is awesome but made my ring useless and now I'm grinding for a new one all over again :\ Apart from that I still have the LLG jewelry probably holding me back a bit too. I have 4 toons but guess I just can't pick a main one to pimp out.

    Anyway last thing I wanted to mention, I've been messing around with traits and changing everything at bards and going back to combat analysis, I wanted to check out 5 blue cool burn mostly, but I just didn't like it at all, such a huge power cost, while 5 red improved fleetness on the other hand only cost focus really, but you could use it much more often... Not sure if I want to go back to 4/3 because the difference wasn't huge but it was a much simpler way to manage focus. I know a lot of people love improved fleetness so I'd appreciate any feedback on where to go from here.
    I'd highly recommend improved fleetness with the erebor huntsman set bonus. You'll get the occasional hunter who will say that get better dps with other setups, but in my experiences I just don't see how that's possible...I do loads more dps in that setup than any others I've tried. Cool burn gives better burst damage for me, but the numbers drop off pretty quickly once burn hot expires. The most important thing is the 2-piece erebor huntsman bonus, everything else is just icing on the cake! If you do that you should see a huge increase in your dps, you can definitely do better than 1200 sustained on the dummies (I just tested and I was able to maintain 1650 dps on the Snowborne dummy for 2min, when I started to run out of power)

    I can assure you that no hunters are doing 4200 sustained single-target dps, without the aid of a substantial number of burgs in the group lol (or other fishy things like that). I actually hope that wasn't me you were talking about, because some of my kin members were apparently spreading around how I did 4000 dps, but they may have forgotted to mention the caveat that it was only for a few seconds lol (burning down a particular add in a raid). Trust me, I can't come close to sustaining that for any reasonable amount of time in a normal situation!


    As for skill rotation, basically I just shoot off as many focus shots as I can, I try to do at least 2 focus shots for every induction shot I fire (of course can't always do that but usually it works out well). Gotta remember to have 6 focus to spare when imp. fleetness comes up off of cooldown though!
    Last edited by Sephollos; Apr 24 2013 at 06:28 PM.
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  6. #6
    on the 75 dummy, no aoe's, i can sustain between 3.2k and 3.6k. this is traited 5b2r with 2 hytbold huntsman(the one that reduces induction time :P cant remember the name), 2 erebor huntsman, and gold helm/boots. burst in the first 10-15 seconds can go up a lot higher, but meh. if i wanted burst i'd trait coolburn

    unbuffed im at 2840 agi, 11.1k crit(yes i know its low), 37.8k mastery. my crit is about 0.3% off of cap with the crit proc, and with the agi proc my mastery goes up to around 39k.
    Last edited by 0987654321; Apr 24 2013 at 06:41 PM. Reason: spelling
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  7. #7
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    Whatever you hit on the 75 dummies, cut it by about half and that should be the general ballpark of what you should be hitting againts nemesis targets. I dont hit the 75s because those numbers are not exactly accurate. 3k+single targ is ALOT of aggro in raids even short bursts. Most of the time I keep CA on to track the general threshold of when I lose aggro to certain tanks, kinda like a rough aggro meter based on your dps(works well with sustained).
    Take bfe for example(was a good way to test sustained boss dps from first hit to kill)
    2k- most pug tanks prob wont hold this much dps
    2.2k-2.5k Good guards seem to hold this range if everything works out..no resists full bpe, not getting those massive crit/devs..getting 10-15k blood arrows back to back or those big ps hits..
    though im told its scary for the guard.
    2.5k-2.8k, good wardens hold but at about 2700, expect to pull atsome point unless you have godmodeopwarden

    3k+ you prob have to share the tanking duties,or in most cases, ask for a rez over raidchat cuz nobody in vent can hear you cuz most likely they are still calling you a &&&&&&&. Seems nobody ever gets the new note regarding the new huntank recruited yesterday
    anyway, just personal observation thought id share

    @dudewithnumbersasausername
    Looks like a solid build right there
    Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.
    Professional AFKer.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    Single target on the nemesis, 2k is amazing. 4200 has to be aoe and prob. on the 75s.
    2k on the Nemesis was reached long before U10 came out and 4k for 1min is actually doable on 75 dummies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    You should get 4 piece huntsman for the blood arrow cd set bonus. Its a good dps boost and you save power with the increased amount of outgoing blood arrows. I would still keep the 2 bowmaster for the crit multiplier. Since you have the hunter cloak, I would suggest you get the agil proc ring and try to get yourself a teal former residents ring from dungeons of dol guldur. It gives you quite a nice PM boost- no point having multiple same proc items..
    I agree with every single point. The 4 Huntsman/2 Bowmaster Hytbold combinaison is just awesome and totally compares with Greater Erebor builds.
    Solid advice concerning jewels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    I say grind t1 erebor huntsman and pair that with 2 hytbold bowmaster/huntsman. That would be a solid setup right there, and you can improve it if you grind the hunter pocket(GB), Earrings(Fornost),dagger(Peak/GT/Scuttle).

    I get that 4r3b has better burst dps but most fights are longer than 60seconds and i prefer blueline's consistency in both burst and sustained.

    Another good thing about blueline is you dont go through your power as fast. Your power will still suffer if you are focus burning like hell but its not AS bad.
    if it wasnt for erebor huntsman set bonus, I would be using 4r3b and get back the precious outgoing damage % i lost going blue.
    Both setups are solid, go with what you are comfortable with.
    Actually 4r/3b with 2 hytbold's huntsman also has pretty awesome sustained dps, definitely on par with Improved Fleetness builds. The latter's main advantage is in my opinion the mobility that it gives you.
    The last comment is the one to go by : try different builds (armour/traits set-ups), and go with the one that you like (and are more efficient with ?) the most. The two mentionned here yield quite different skill rotations !

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    (though i dont know why people build around 5r coolburn but thats just me)
    It depends, 5r build was just awesome for Barad Buldur (85 at least) were you had lots of short pulls.







    Quote Originally Posted by 0987654321 View Post
    on the 75 dummy, no aoe's, i can sustain between 3.2k and 3.6k. this is traited 5b2r with 2 hytbold huntsman(the one that reduces induction time :P cant remember the name), 2 erebor huntsman, and gold helm/boots. burst in the first 10-15 seconds can go up a lot higher, but meh. if i wanted burst i'd trait coolburn
    What did you use for this ? Breach Finders and Oils ? Burn Hot at the beginning ? What do you call sustained dps, is it firing skills using zero cooldowns (focus pots/intent concentration) ?

    I am wondering because I have close to top noth gear (10k6 critical rating and 39,6k physical mastery unbuffed, not counting gear procs) and consider myself a quite decent player, yet I have not reached the same conclusions as you.


    I ran a bunch of 1min parses last night on the 75 dummy of what I call "sustained standard rotation" : using absolutely no buffs or cooldowns (scrolls, BH, IC, pots, oils & bow chants, baingrist, ...) except Needful Haste and (out of combat) Focus.

    5b/2r with 4 Greater Huntsman (Bodkin Arrows) got me between 2k7 and 3k most of the time while 4r/3b with 4 Greater Bowmaster with Shot Through the Heart traited) got me from 2k8 to 3k3 depending on the number of HS procs I could proc, wether they were crits or not and the annoying dummy resets (firing HS just after the reset meant losing the benefits from SttH)


    Since blowing CDs such as Intent Concentration and focus pots (during BH) benefits 4r/3b more than 5b/2r, I am intrigued by your results...
    Using those with my 4r/3b build always got me from 3k8-4k2 on 1min parses (still against those 75 dummies).



    Quote Originally Posted by 0987654321 View Post
    unbuffed im at 2840 agi, 11.1k crit(yes i know its low), 37.8k mastery. my crit is about 0.3% off of cap with the crit proc, and with the agi proc my mastery goes up to around 39k.
    11.1k critical rating is actually a tad high for a raiding toon : you must count captain's buffs (IDOME and Relentless Attack) and your ring (or gold cloak) crit proc : 13900 - (1519 - 85*(2.5+1) - 1870). So to be at cap in a raid environement, you should aim at approximately 10k2. Still nice stats
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabli View Post

    What did you use for this ? Breach Finders and Oils ? Burn Hot at the beginning ? What do you call sustained dps, is it firing skills using zero cooldowns (focus pots/intent concentration) ?

    I am wondering because I have close to top noth gear (10k6 critical rating and 39,6k physical mastery unbuffed, not counting gear procs) and consider myself a quite decent player, yet I have not reached the same conclusions as you.


    I ran a bunch of 1min parses last night on the 75 dummy of what I call "sustained standard rotation" : using absolutely no buffs or cooldowns (scrolls, BH, IC, pots, oils & bow chants, baingrist, ...) except Needful Haste and (out of combat) Focus.

    5b/2r with 4 Greater Huntsman (Bodkin Arrows) got me between 2k7 and 3k most of the time while 4r/3b with 4 Greater Bowmaster with Shot Through the Heart traited) got me from 2k8 to 3k3 depending on the number of HS procs I could proc, wether they were crits or not and the annoying dummy resets (firing HS just after the reset meant losing the benefits from SttH)


    Since blowing CDs such as Intent Concentration and focus pots (during BH) benefits 4r/3b more than 5b/2r, I am intrigued by your results...
    Using those with my 4r/3b build always got me from 3k8-4k2 on 1min parses (still against those 75 dummies).




    11.1k critical rating is actually a tad high for a raiding toon : you must count captain's buffs (IDOME and Relentless Attack) and your ring (or gold cloak) crit proc : 13900 - (1519 - 85*(2.5+1) - 1870). So to be at cap in a raid environement, you should aim at approximately 10k2. Still nice stats
    well, my crit may seem high, although it feels low while parsing. idk, ill have to look into my build again.

    i havent parsed using all cooldowns. i normally use focus out of combat, needful haste, and thats it. i pretty much always use oil(not that it matters on training dummys) and breach-finders, just because i would never NOT have those. burn hot, if i wanted to i could get the 25% crit multi, + focus pot, i could probably raise my dps quite a bit.

    once i get BFE T2 done, and get my greater erebor sets, ill have to do some more parsing. i will also have to try using all my CD's, although i may skip IC just because of the horrible animation :P

    EDIT: here is my character if you want to compare the gear etc. to yours.

    http://my.lotro.com/home/character/6...8138029732215/

    just did a parse using BH/focus pot. parsed about 4.1k over a minute and a half period, which is where i ran out of power(used a power pot).
    Last edited by 0987654321; Apr 25 2013 at 03:59 PM.
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  10. #10
    4,1k for 1'30 is quite impressive, so I guess I'll have to give the 5b build yet another shot...
    In the meantime, any chance you could provide screenshots with the CA window showing the list/number of skills used and overall critical/devastate percentages ?

    On the side, critical rating versus dummies with a raid-geared toon should feel lowish as you would not be cappy-buffed, hence under the cap.
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabli View Post
    4,1k for 1'30 is quite impressive, so I guess I'll have to give the 5b build yet another shot...
    In the meantime, any chance you could provide screenshots with the CA window showing the list/number of skills used and overall critical/devastate percentages ?

    On the side, critical rating versus dummies with a raid-geared toon should feel lowish as you would not be cappy-buffed, hence under the cap.
    i didnt take a screenshot of the parse, however i will happily do another parse when i can get back in game.

    i do however remember i used something like 30-ish pen shots, with pen shot being my most damaging skill. swift-bow and ranged attack were within 500 damage of each other for 2nd and 3rd spot. (this test did seem rather odd, in that when i checked CA i had around a 45% crit rating, and 12% dev. so we'll have to see if i can sustain 4.1k again.)
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  12. #12
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    I have been traiting cool burn since i got my greater erebor armor and I can parse 6-6.2k for a minute+ 80% of the time on the lvl 75 training dummy and have done about 3.6k on the nemesis and in longer parses on the 75 dummy i stay around 3.8-4k and the nemesis from 1.9k-2.4k. Considering this minute is full burst I use a swap bow for BH and have a macro for my HS to swap to the draigoch set when ever its instant on the 75 dummy with about 15k crit and 40k mastery my HS devs for 16-18k with BH up I only parse with self buffs, (Token, Scrolls, Food, Dev Pots) I tried using fleetness and its decent but I feel like with the new crit changes and extra crit mag from the erebor set the extra damage from BH every 2m is better and sustains even more especially with the new power changes.

  13. #13
    Remember doing 3.2k on 75 dummy for +1min a few weeks ago. No burnhot, no heartseeker opener, no focus pot. Just fire oil, glass cannon build, typical consumables, and only self-buffs. Started with SB and typical rotation I would use on landscape/ trash pulls. I'm sure if I really cleaned up my rotation I could be much higher than that. AoE doesn't even count in a parse IMO, I've pulled 5.4k in GB trash pulls spamming RoA for over 45 sec. Situations like that are not typical and shouldn't really be considered. What kills us is not our sustained DPS numbers, it's the 6-8k peak DPS we do at the start of a fight and sustain long enough to outpace the tank, even with a threat copy at the end of challenge followed by litany we out threat that easily. The spike damage associated with critted SB or a dev'ed BA is sometimes all it takes to fringe on the other side of the threat tightrope you play with your tank. I don't see any class other than burgs in full gold, glass cannon build, anywhere near our single target DPS.
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  14. #14
    I run with 31k mastery, 10.5k crit in the moors with no buffs or anything minus the breach finders and fire oils. We had no OP's at the time and in pretty sure that's all that would've affected my parse. I burned no CD's or dev potions or any sort of other damage increaser. I parsed almost 1800 dps over about 65 seconds which the last 5 were dropping combat with no attacks going off. Being in moors gear and jewels not glass cannon built for pve I think Varron would be correct. You could fairly easily parse like that if you popped CD's, dev pots, had food, token, scrolls and whatever else like the +5% damage mod. You should parse around where I did without very much trouble. I know Varron can hit crazy hard in his dps build so if your using pve gear 6k might be doable.
    .
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrenwe View Post
    I run with 31k mastery, 10.5k crit in the moors with no buffs or anything minus the breach finders and fire oils. We had no OP's at the time and in pretty sure that's all that would've affected my parse. I burned no CD's or dev potions or any sort of other damage increaser. I parsed almost 1800 dps over about 65 seconds which the last 5 were dropping combat with no attacks going off. Being in moors gear and jewels not glass cannon built for pve I think Varron would be correct. You could fairly easily parse like that if you popped CD's, dev pots, had food, token, scrolls and whatever else like the +5% damage mod. You should parse around where I did without very much trouble. I know Varron can hit crazy hard in his dps build so if your using pve gear 6k might be doable.
    Was that on the 75 or 85 dummy? Just curious because I don't see how you could sustain 1.8k on the 85 dummy with only 31k mastery and no CDs used...if you did that then I need to learn some hunter tips from you!
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephollos View Post
    Was that on the 75 or 85 dummy? Just curious because I don't see how you could sustain 1.8k on the 85 dummy with only 31k mastery and no CDs used...if you did that then I need to learn some hunter tips from you!
    85 moors dummy, the light armored one on the far right
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  17. #17
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    Well having a hunter as my main I got 2,980 agility unbuffed (had 3,022 but switched gear up), 11.8k crit, 38k mastery and I can only get 4k+ dps on the training dummies in snowbourne except at the start of the fight I hit a 21k with Heartseeker and got my dps up to 30k+ haha but it ended up dropping to 4k at the 2 minute mark when I started getting bored and stopped.

 

 

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