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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Vienna, Austria

    Champion or Guardian

    Hello there,

    I noticed this post on the Chamion Forum:

    The Mighty Champion Solo List

    That is pretty impressive to say the least.

    Now my question is, what class is better suitet for this kind of challanges? A champ or a guardian. I'm really thinking only about the solo challenges, not full-raid tanking or best DPS in a raid-environment.

    Thanks a lot for your thought.

  2. #2
    I have a level 85 Guardian, and have never played a Champ. So do with my take what you will...

    I would guess that a Champion would be the better choice if what you really want to do is mow solo through massively difficult content. Champs have bubble shields, AoE stuns, and big AoE DPS that help them power through tough fights and get the bad guy down before they expire. The heavy armor (70% max physical mitigation) helps with survivability.

    Guards don't have all these advantages. Of course we certainly are more stout (especially with a shield equipped), but have much lower DPS output overall which makes the same fight generally take longer for a Guard, which means more to survive. This combined with really modest self-healing capability and no AoE stuns makes me think Guards have fewer tools to do this kind of thing. Just not what the class was made for. Guards really excel at group tanking with all their taunts and toughness - that's what we were made for.

    Yes, some Guards get really creative with DPS setups now that Overpower stance is part of the arsenal, ditching the shield and going with a 2-hander. Lots of interesting things can be done, no doubt. But I suspect Champs are more naturally geared to what you're asking about.

  3. #3
    Both classes are good soloers, and each have their strengths and weaknesses.

    The Guardian is a full tank. It is able to take huge amounts of damage and come off relatively healthy. It is extremely durable and thus can take on solo content without any problems.

    The Champion is a melee damage dealer with great AoE abilities. It can clear mobs fast and makes a great solo class. It can deal significantly more damage than the Guardian IMO but it is less durable. It can learn Heavy Armor as of level 20 while the Guardian has it at lvl 1.

    The Guardian has greater survivability than the Champion while the Champion has greater damage output.
    "Three hundred lives of men I have walked this earth and now I have no time."

  4. #4
    Overall, Champion DPS is evened out by Guardian toughness. I think that they both come out about equal for solo content, with Guardians perhaps having a slight advantage.

    The sea is calling us home...

  5. #5
    I have a lvl 85 guard too. The biggest issue is the self heals. You can survive a lot of damage but the dps is so low that the fights take a long time. The self heal skills aren't that great and nothing like the champion bubble. At lvl 75 you can get the Great River Martyr's set which gives a champion-like bubble ability every 5 minutes. At lvl 85 you can get some of the Rohan rings that gives self heals. Thing is champions can use these too so guards aren't gaining anything on them here.

    You can also work to make yourself a LI set that maximizes all of your self heals. So with all this combined with your mitigations capped the guardian can be quite effective at taking down some of these challenges. I think the champion is still a better choice because the dps will be so much higher and it is still very tough class.

    The over power setup now is such that the guardian loses mitigations when in this stance making you weaker. So when trying such a challenge I rarely ever use it very long. I'm usually in a defense stance and expect the fight to be very long.

  6. #6
    I only solo and these two classes are the only two that I have played for any long length of time. My Guardian (tank) is level 44 and my Champ (DPS) which I am currently playing is level 49. My personal preference is the Champ by a long shot! I can go through the same content relatively quick because the Champ does deal more damage and for me, is more fun to play. Guardian does have more survivability as a tank, but I have had much success with the Champ with all the self-heals.

  7. #7
    Just two clarifications to explain my initial response, which was to recommend a Champion even though I don't have one and I do have -- and ABSOLUTELY LOVE! -- an 85 Guardian...

    The OP's question wasn't "which class soloes better..." as in typical questing or killing landscape mobs. Both classes do this fine. I have leveled my Guard all the way to cap and he does great, especially with the extra DPS output of Overpower when all the extra mitigation just isn't needed on the landscape. Rather, the OP's question was which class would be recommended for extra challenging content: deliberately soloing content that was designed for groups. That's a more specific question.

    Secondly, the question wasn't "can a Guard do such challenging tasks," but rather which of the two classes is better suited to such challenging tasks. For reasons several posters have noted already, I think a Champion is the clear-cut answer to that specific question.

    And that is coming from a Champion-less Guardian-lover

    I have my Guardian to tank group instances, not to solo bosses in Bells of Dale.
    Last edited by Troutdude; Apr 24 2013 at 03:22 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLotroFan View Post
    The self heal skills aren't that great and nothing like the champion bubble. At lvl 75 you can get the Great River Martyr's set which gives a champion-like bubble ability every 5 minutes. At lvl 85 you can get some of the Rohan rings that gives self heals. Thing is champions can use these too so guards aren't gaining anything on them here.
    Even the 2 bubbles for champs (CD reduced to 1 mn with leg for the 2nd bubble (Sudden Defence))
    So most of the time you can be quasi-constantly wih a bubble....

    And mainly the Bracing Attack, with all the bonuses (+20% from Hytbold, +15% from leg, +5% from some gold items like shoulders, ...) which gives me self-heal > any damage I receive in all 3-Man in solo and allows me to keep my morale at max nearly all the time (I just lose some morale with some bosses, like WP boss (Kranklob) or 2 bosses from Stoneheight T2C)
    + Exalted Combatant effect, useful for more difficult instances than 3-Man, when morale < 20%
    + Dire Need which sets morale at 100% if power is sufficient (often the case now with all the power heavy classes got since U10)
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 24 2013 at 06:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Champ definitely has more potential for solo-ego-stunts, though you'll usually have to use a quite different build than for your daily DPS job, focusing a lot more on survival.
    Guard can also handle a lot, but solo stunts require a lot of endurance which the guard often won't have alone, either running out of power, morale, or dying of old age.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more



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