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  1. #1

    I don't want to heal! ...advice?

    The title may be a bit misleading but here is my situation. I love the minstrel, have played almost everything to just past 20 now to get a feel for it and I found that a minstrel in War Speech is my most favorite. Granted, when I am NOT in that stance, I hate this class. Can't stand it. It seems to be 2 totally separate entities entirely!

    With that said, I plan on playing mostly with my buddy who is a warden and we will probably go to 85 together and may never be in a max raid. Perhaps some grouping here and there, but that is probably it. I just want to find out if I am alone here?? Also, anyone that is playing mainly this way, will you provide some tips as to what stats to truly focus on? I know being "young" probably doesn't matter much, but I very much want to be the very best or at least get the most information I can to be viable at what I am doing as well as be good enough to solo content.

    Any help would be appreciated!

    **note: after fights, I don't mind dropping the stance to heal everyone up, it's just too frustrating to me to be the "sole healer"...I'm lazy and old, I don't need that stress

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Minstrel in war speech traited red line is a kick to play and a great class solo or duo, even if you don't want to do group content.

    Will is still critical for you because it gives you tactical mastery/dps. Other stats you need are vit for morale and fate for crit rating and icpr. In the lower levels the armour and jewelry isn't exactly geared toward your main stats so you have to do the best you can to balance, but once you get above 65 it gets easier.

    At 85 you can go WS through most 3-man content, with minimal healing perhaps on the boss or just rely on your crits to open the random heal you can throw on a fellow member if you trait for it. There's also the moors, which is also great fun on the minstrel.

    Oh, and youth is definitely wasted on the young. Even in gaming.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuludawn View Post
    ...I'm lazy and old, I don't need that stress
    LOL, aren't we all? I really don't think you would like raids, on any stance or any class then. But as for healing, I've got a 85 warden who while tanking heals the group mostly for agro but it helps. My mini is only 48 but has been healing most of that time with my sweetheart who has a burg as the tank for us. And my rune keeper just hit 82 and has solo'ed from mid 30's to there as dps. Plus I have a capped hunter...basically what I'm saying is I love dps too!

    But yesterday while lvling my rk, I find a landscape raid(7-10 pp) going for xp, a Lore Master was tanking it. When I saw the LM he/she needed a little boost with heals, then a lot of boost with heals, short story is I was invited and was the sole healer in the group. That was a little challenging as I was traited for lightning dps, but it was fun keeping the group healed because it WAS challenging.

    As a mini you will find most raids will want you as the healer not dps, hunters do better with dps so they would win the spot over you.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000001eec3f/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    6

    ...Heal anyways

    I know that when I started my minstrel I wanted nothing to do with healing... WS was amazing and I loved it. As I leveled, though, I came to like healing more and more until now... I literally refuse to play the dps role.

    While WS minstrel is a heck of a lot of fun, and they do a huge amount of damage at lower levels compared to other classes, their advantage diminishes. If you wanted to just play it for fun, I'd say sure, go ahead and WS. (When on the red line dont focus on buffs like the +20% armour... if youre going for dps you go all-out.) But since you DID say that you plan to hit 85, this is unrealistic.

    You will only be getting in raids if the leader simply can't find another hunter or champ.. it is how it is. And if they admit a minstrel, it is expected of them to heal. There's no way around it. A mini dpsing is like a warden healing the fellowship... kind of pointless.

    Sorry to say, but my advice would be to either heal anyway.... or delete and roll a RK.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    8
    You are not alone!

    I was a little wary of my minnie until I realised what awesome dps he has. I levelled solo all the way to 85, as I didn't want the responsibility of healing - in fact the minnie was the one I chose to lead the way through Rohan.

    I totally agree with Beaniemooch, though I can't comment on the moors (no interest in PvP). However, I don't agree (with Ariskabar) that you wouldn't like raiding. I'm 'lazy and old' too, but discovered raiding at lvl 75 on my captain. Now I have 3 alts at 85, and healing raids is definitely on my fun list! It's great to be able to stand back and support all the 'young things'. A word of warning though, try not to have to look after multiple champs - they can be a little wild and irresponsible!

    Just enjoy your minstrel as a really powerful fighter and see what the future brings.

  6. #6
    If you want to learn to heal without stress or drama, join a good kin. PUG healing is a mess. You have all sorts of bad play from various people and they always seem to blame the healer for not keeping them on their feet despite themselves.

    Folks who group in a kin know that they will see the same people again tomorrow and the next day. They learn how to work together, or they get told that it might be best for them to move on. You may get criticism after a kin raid, but it will be (or should be) constructive.

    When you are in a good kin, healing is neither stressful nor particularly difficult. The tank will have the aggro and 75% of the time that will be the only guy you need to watch. Sure there are AOE's but you also get (at higher levels) several group heals. It should not be like in a PUG, where folks are careless about grabbing aggro from the tank.

    If however, you know for certain you never, ever want to heal under any circumstance... then when you do join a group just be sure to declare yourself a DPS mini.

    The traits you want will be the same as a healing mini. You want Will for power, Fate for power regen and criticals, you want anything that adds to your tactical mastery. Since you will be drawing some threat, vitality (for morale) may be an important third trait for you. And virtues that add to your mitigations will be helpful too. Charity & Innocence are good for that. Fidelity adds to tactical mitigation.

    Good luck!

  7. #7
    It depends what you want to do. Running with kin mates who know what you want to do, its perfectly viable, if sub-optimal to play as a DPS class (I'd say the best DPS minstrels are slightly better than a random hunter/champion/RK, but that's a matter of opinion as there's not really anyway to test that). I do it a fair amount, typically when we are blitzing through 6 mans and the cappy is taking the brunt of the healing. Even focusing on DPS you provide a legitimate amount of unintentional healing.

    But if you want to PUG a lot you may find you are getting turned down for groups. I also have a sneaking suspicion that you'll get a lot of complaints from members of the group who are dying that you are not off healing (I expect these to be the same people who are not moving out of pools, or potting the nasty effects.)

    Anyway, you never know what the class updates will bring, you may find all the secondary class roles brought up to primary class standards.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    2,324
    You don't want to heal? I bet you also rolled a Guardian because you didn't want to tank. Go roll a different class.

    Champion is an excellent DPS class. Hunter and Rune-Keeper are also options.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    243
    For soloing and duoing, that's great - you don't have to learn anything about healing, besides what you need to heal yourself & what things give a bonus heal to a fellowship member even when you're in warspeech (chord of salvation, for instance, gives a HoT after you get the upgraded version). If you decide to do 3-person stuff, learn how harmony works - it's kind of the combo healing/dpsing stance. If you want to join a six-person or raid, though, either learn to heal, find a group that's sympathetic to having a dps mini - and this will be hard, but not impossible - or skip any group stuff. And if you do decide to join groups, let them know *right away* that you want to dps, not heal.

    Enjoy! I love playing solo in warspeech. It's tons of fun. Eventually, you might want to give tougher stuff a try - a well-geared mini can solo some small fellowship quests/instances, though it takes a loooong time.

  10. #10
    My mini heals...herself. She's not my main though. Play whatever you like, and don't feel compelled to play some twinks cookie cutter standards of what a character should be. I would rather be a warrior bard myself, than a warm fuzzy feelings poetry reciting bard. I did get my mini up to 30 in a day, armed with nothing but a cowbell and some Vogon poetry. That's faster leveling than my burg or champ, so I like it for a crafting alt.

    I guess that's one reason I prefer burglars, because people don't try to push me into a certain role as much.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Graycient View Post
    You don't want to heal? I bet you also rolled a Guardian because you didn't want to tank. Go roll a different class.

    Champion is an excellent DPS class. Hunter and Rune-Keeper are also options.
    Tsk Tsk...Aren't we cranky. - 1 for you, soup nazi...

    My mini is almost level 70 atm, totally solo'd in War speach and red line mode. I started him with the idea of trying to sort of recreate something like my Cleric in DAOC..He wound up being closer to my AC1 War Mage, if you play with the volume down like me.
    Although I mostly dop not group or heal, except to do the odd run wiht Kinnies, I rolled this alt to have the OPTION to that if I choose.
    Oh, an dI will take a War Speech Mini over a glass-cannon RK any day, my personal preference.

    Bottom line, play what you find fun...You'll find a way to have a great time anywhere....
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000001ee3e9/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #12
    If you don't want to heal, then don't ever play a class that is capable of healing. Period. If you play a class that is capable of healing, people will expect you to heal, especially the minstrel class. For the following reasons:

    The minstrel in WS is super fun and great AoE DPS, but at the end of the day, it's not a sustained dps like a champion or hunter, and it's not as much of a burst as an RK. So while it's great for solo/duo/3-man/easy 6-man, it's really not good for anything else. People won't want mini DPS in harder group content or any raids because the single target dps just isn't there, and the AoEs are an issue in any situation where you have crowd control or are not able to AoE due to the mechanics of the fight. That severely lowers the overall DPS of our class. Because of this minstrels are usually expected to heal in any end game raid or harder 6 man content.
    Freia - Level 85 Elf Minstrel, Crickhollow
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  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuludawn View Post
    ......With that said, I plan on playing mostly with my buddy who is a warden and we will probably go to 85 together and may never be in a max raid. Perhaps some grouping here and there, but that is probably it....
    This is part of the OP. I find it interesting that so much is said to the OP on how to group and in one case if they don't want to heal they should delete and re-roll an RK.

    Minnies are very flexible characters, especially right now. Don't feel bad about not wanting to heal - I personally love it but I love to dps too. Don't expect to be equivalent to a well-played hunter or other dps class, but feel comfortable that you and your warden buddy can take on most anything in-game together and do well.

    Healing is more stressful than playing an interchangeable dps class in a group or raid setting, where more responsibility resides on you than others. The same is true of tanks usually. What you do is more noticeable because people frequently live and die on good instincts and quick reactions. I love it and tend to thrive on pressure, but that's me. I can see why it's not fun for everybody because when it goes wrong and I feel it's my fault, I feel lousy. However if I get blamed and I know it's NOT my fault (and we can tell if we screwed up or not) I make a note and try not to group with those folks again and they may be the first to die if I do find myself grouped with them. Every healing minnie knows - you can't heal stupid. Let 'em die.

    Enjoy the game playing the minnie the way you want. They're fun, flexible, and while not perfect I like playing them better than any other class in the game.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    This is part of the OP. I find it interesting that so much is said to the OP on how to group and in one case if they don't want to heal they should delete and re-roll an RK.
    That's probably because nobody cares if someone doesn't want to heal if they're playing solo or duo with a specific person. It's only in the group setting, however rare that will be, that it makes any sort of difference. So that is what people will likely address.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    France
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    749
    Even though minstrels can ditch out some decent damage, I believe the last few updates brought the war-skald minstrel down to the bottom of the single target dps pile (at cap level anyway). Guardians and wardens got pretty serious boosts to their damage output with changes to their stances and traits, and captains have been steadily getting better as well, thanks to I think, ever increasing dps ratings on weapons and stat normalization. Minstrel damage doesn't seem to scale so well from tactical damage rating. As for champions, hunters, rune-keepers, burglars, and to some extend lore-masters, they're in a league of their own, way out of reach of minstrels.

    When it comes to 'AOE', minstrels fare better, since wardens, captains, and burglars are very weak in that area, and guardians ain't so hot either. That's a double edged sword though, where crowd control is required, minstrels are left with few skills for damage.

    At the end of the day, war-skald minstrels still have decent firepower, especially if AOE is possible, and they retain some degree of buffing and healing, so they're not useless in a group, but they're just not well suited for the more 'serious' content (as in wherever the rate of damage really matters).

    Personally, I find playing the game most enjoyable if I'm playing my characters to the full extend of their abilities, not "just heal" or "just dps". Hell, I'd love to have a taunt on my minstrel and do some tanking on top of healing, dps'ing, buffing, fearing, interrupting or removing corruptions!
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  16. #16
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    change class, simple as that. some classes were made to heal/support, some to dps. Only reason people are given other options is because this game is becoming more soloable by every update.
    Nerf healing in PvMP and just maybe it will be worth it again.

  17. #17
    Harmony stance: you can do half and half at the same time. Do some DPS and heal at the same time. You can trait for the red line too since its just questing. But if someones hp does go down, you don't have to click the warspeech icon to drop it, you just heal.
    Main: Builas (Hunter) lvl 85 || Thelluin (Minstrel) lvl 85 ~ Recruiting Officer of The Knights of Dol Amroth (Brandywine)
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    This is part of the OP. I find it interesting that so much is said to the OP on how to group and in one case if they don't want to heal they should delete and re-roll an RK.
    It is only in group content you run into this situation. In 3+ character instances, you are going to be expected to heal. The vast majority of players are not going to accept a Minstrel filling a DPS slot. They going to get a Hunter, Champion, DPS specced Rune Keeper... You are only going to get to play this way when it something like a six person instance. The group can do the instance. The DPS Minstrel is an extra character that does not have to do anything to complete the instance.

    What you do on the landscape for solo quests or with a buddy is no something the player base is concerned about. Do it anyway that is fun and workable for you.

    I personally done 3 person instsnces where the third is along for the ride. Me and my buddy are doing all the work. If the DPS Minstrel, under level character or whatever came along as the third cuts the time a few seconds, that is great.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuludawn View Post
    The title may be a bit misleading but here is my situation. I love the minstrel, have played almost everything to just past 20 now to get a feel for it and I found that a minstrel in War Speech is my most favorite. Granted, when I am NOT in that stance, I hate this class. Can't stand it. It seems to be 2 totally separate entities entirely!

    With that said, I plan on playing mostly with my buddy who is a warden and we will probably go to 85 together and may never be in a max raid. Perhaps some grouping here and there, but that is probably it. I just want to find out if I am alone here?? Also, anyone that is playing mainly this way, will you provide some tips as to what stats to truly focus on? I know being "young" probably doesn't matter much, but I very much want to be the very best or at least get the most information I can to be viable at what I am doing as well as be good enough to solo content.

    Any help would be appreciated!

    **note: after fights, I don't mind dropping the stance to heal everyone up, it's just too frustrating to me to be the "sole healer"...I'm lazy and old, I don't need that stress
    I love this post it's exactly what I've been playing with my mini, I don't mind healing and at one point really looked into trying to learn all the traits and set-ups for healing, I've built a Healing legendary book and healing Club alongside a DPS sword and DPS book, but I have found it hard to find groups as like you I mostly play with a mate who is also a warden, and have developed into quite a happy mini playing on my own with quite a nice DPS set-up. Trouble is I'm now 81 and can't ever find groups to finish fellowship quests, I've tried advertising and using instance finder but everyone seems to be 85 now. I'm also worried I haven't healed in so long I've forgotten most of it, I don't want to get stick if people are dieing during raids cos I'm a bit rusty. So my advice would be to carry on , defence is hard with a mini and soloing tough instances is hard as I've always struggled to find good armour (still do) , but once you get above you quests lvls like I always seem to be most of them are quite easy.

    Be interested if anyone's got any advice getting good armour for mini's or joining groups at lvl 81, I look in glff & the auction house but as I said most group quests are 85 and I need lots of medallions to buy the top level sets of armour from the NPC's

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    North East USA
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    Zulu; my Mini is my main, to get into the right habits for group healing I play the same way while soloing. I stopped using WarSpeech and use Harmony when soloing. I now only use WS when in a hurry or a really tough situation. This way I figure I'll have the habits down and don't have to remember where and what the right skills are when in a battle with others. It does mean playing solo at a slower pace.

    Basilrod
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000002ed513/signature.png]Basilrod[/charsig]

  21. #21
    Zulu, There should not be any duo content that you and your warden friend cannot handle while you are in WS. Especially if you maintain Anthem of War and Anthem of the Free Peoples

    Use Echoes of Battle; not for yourself, but for your warden friend. It is my understanding that fist gambits tend to be cries. Taunts certainly are.

    If you want to practice for grouping, take your warden friend into a few skirmishes and experiment with Harmony. If you maintain your anthems, you should be able to get by with maintenance healing. The soldiers will provide extra life bars for you to manage without the worry of player aggro if something goes wrong.
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