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  1. #1

    Inductions and Things that reduce them

    I want to make sure I understand how inductions work. Let me know if the following is correct:

    1) The induction value in seconds is the time it takes from when you initiate the skill to the time the skill fires. For example, Heart Seeker has a 2.7 second induction and time.
    2) Any skill that does not have an Induction amount (in Seconds) happens instantly and can not be interrupted. For example, Improved Merciful Shot has no induction value.
    3) While a skill is inducting you cannot use any other skills, even ones that do not have an induction time.
    4) Auto attacks also are on hold while you are inducting a skill (?? is this true??)


    Traits and other Stuff That Impact Inductions


    There seems to be two ways in which inductions are changed.
    1) The time of a specific induction might be reduced by a trait or something else. These reductions are normally in seconds. Such as Fast Draw reducing Swift Bow by 0.2s and Barbed Arrow by 0.1s
    2) Some things reduce a category of attacks by a percentage. For example Improved Fleetness reduces Bow Inductions by 15%. I assume this would mean that, for example, Improved Swift Bow would reduce from 1.6 seconds to about 1.36 seconds. Also having two Hytbold Huntsman armor equipped reduces all bow inductions by 10%.

    Question:
    Are induction improvements stackable? If so how? Lets take Swift Bow as an example:

    - I have 2 Hytbold Huntsman armor equipped. 10% reduction
    - I have Fast Draw trait slotted. and this reduces Swift Bow by 0.2 seconds.
    - Improved Fleetness is slotted. 15% induction reduction to bows.

    So, this should reduce the Swift Bow induction from 1.6 seconds to ( -0.16, -0.2, -0.24) 1.0 seconds. Is this true?

    If induction improvements are stackable is their a limit?

    Thx for feedback, I want to make sure I got this in my dumb dwarf brain.

    Savin

  2. #2
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    I'll let you do the actual math on it yourself, but how it should be working (as this is how seconds and percents work on captain) is that all of the percents are added up, the base skill is reduced by whatever that total percent is, and then the seconds are subtracted after that.

    I'll use Shadow's Lament as an example since it's the easiest to show you with (since I'm familiar with it, and it uses bigger numbers that won't give decimals).

    Base skill is 45 seconds cooldown.
    A legacy will reduce the skill by 15s.
    An armour set has the ability to reduce it by 20%. (Multiple do, actually, but for sake of

    20% + 20% = 40% CD reduction, bringing the skill to 27 seconds. Subtract 15 seconds from that and you end with a 12 second cooldown, which is what my skill is in game (I think, anyway). Go in any other order, such as the seconds first or doing the %s separately, and you end up with a number higher than it should be.
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  3. #3
    Remember that the inductions you see in the tooltip of your skill is the actual induction after all effects have been applied, not the original one.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    1) The induction value in seconds is the time it takes from when you initiate the skill to the time the skill fires. For example, Heart Seeker has a 2.7 second induction and time.
    Yes and no. On quick shot, for example, you fire a shot instantly after the induction is finished. However, on isb, you see the induction and then the animation for the skill to fire.

    A more accurate definition of the induction value is that it is the time it takes for your hunter to initiate aim and then initiate the animation to execute it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    2) Any skill that does not have an Induction amount (in Seconds) happens instantly and can not be interrupted. For example, Improved Merciful Shot has no induction value.
    Yes and no. You would expect that PS or MS or Blood Arrow or even the inductionless Barbed Arrow cannot be interrupted, but this is not always true. If you happen to initiate the skill right before a mob stuns you, you will use the focus for the skill but you will not execute it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    3) While a skill is inducting you cannot use any other skills, even ones that do not have an induction time.
    Yes and no. You cannot use any regular skills like your melee, other induc skills, or even immediate skills. However, I *think* you can use "skills" that don't require animations, like using a pot or popping elf parry.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    4) Auto attacks also are on hold while you are inducting a skill (?? is this true??)
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    There seems to be two ways in which inductions are changed.
    1) The time of a specific induction might be reduced by a trait or something else. These reductions are normally in seconds. Such as Fast Draw reducing Swift Bow by 0.2s and Barbed Arrow by 0.1s
    2) Some things reduce a category of attacks by a percentage. For example Improved Fleetness reduces Bow Inductions by 15%. I assume this would mean that, for example, Improved Swift Bow would reduce from 1.6 seconds to about 1.36 seconds. Also having two Hytbold Huntsman armor equipped reduces all bow inductions by 10%.
    Also remember that 3 traits in the blue line reduces inductions by 10%. And, other in-combat buffs like -x% attack duration will also reduce your inductions. (so, on the opposite, getting a debuff that is +25% attack duration will increase your bow inductions by that much as well -- if you want to test this, do a skirmish and wait for a Shepard of Filth to summon his filth crawlers to you, they stack attack duration debuffs)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    Question:
    Are induction improvements stackable? If so how? Lets take Swift Bow as an example:

    - I have 2 Hytbold Huntsman armor equipped. 10% reduction
    - I have Fast Draw trait slotted. and this reduces Swift Bow by 0.2 seconds.
    - Improved Fleetness is slotted. 15% induction reduction to bows.

    So, this should reduce the Swift Bow induction from 1.6 seconds to ( -0.16, -0.2, -0.24) 1.0 seconds. Is this true?
    Quote Originally Posted by faenordal View Post
    Remember that the inductions you see in the tooltip of your skill is the actual induction after all effects have been applied, not the original one.
    ^Keeping what Faenordal said in mind, yes, induction improvements (and non-improvements, take the Shepard of Filth's debuffs for example) are stackable.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    If induction improvements are stackable is their a limit?
    The limit would be until you reach 0m/0s on an induction -- but I'm not entirely sure if it caps at .1s or something of the like so that you still have to induct the skill.
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  5. #5
    One other thing to keep in mind is the skill "queue".
    When an induction is running, and you press a button for a skill or any other action (pot, buff or whatever), that action/skill will go in a queue, to be executed at the end of the induction.
    Some skill are cancelable if you initiate a skill that has higher priority. Typical example, if you press Penetrating Shot while Quick Slot is inducting. Apparently, ISB has a high priority.

  6. #6
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    Swift bow can get down to .9 seconds with Fleetness, blue traitline, hybold 2 set piece, swiftbow trait, and needful haste, maybe .8 with 1 red, and 6blue

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SavinDwarf View Post
    ... the time it takes from when you initiate the skill to the time the skill fires ...
    Is the attack duration to the best of my knowledge.

    Induction is the time it takes for the skill to be available for re-cast/use again.

  8. #8
    As the last post said, -xx% attack duration does not affect induction, but the animation of the attack itself. While encancing instand skills, the bonus for induction skills is very low.
    lvl 85 lm (main), lvl 85 champ, lvl 85 rk, lvl 85 hunter, lvl 85 minni

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic4L View Post
    Is the attack duration to the best of my knowledge.

    Induction is the time it takes for the skill to be available for re-cast/use again.
    This explanation is not quite right.

    Here is a simplified timing explanation:

    1) Press key to activate skill

    2) Induction timing begins. Not all skills have inductions where the bar has to fill.

    3) Induction ends. Execution timing begins.

    4) Enough time passes for the first execution hook to occur. First effect occurs. Some skills only have one hook. Other skills have an execution hook at time zero of the execution phase. Some skills have two or three execution hooks.

    5) Skill ends - might be interrupted before any execution hook is reached which tends to upset the player because you burned the skill and power for no benefit. Skill cool down starts. Skill can not be used again until the cool down expires.

    6) Global Character cool down timing begins. Auto attack will execute during this phase. When complete return to 2.

    Some things to note:

    a) Auto attack has a cool down. It may or may not fire after every skill.

    b) Auto attack executes in zero time. They do not delay a regular skill.

    c) Animation timing is seperate from skill timing. In some cases, the animation will continue after the skill has finished. In other case, the animation will end before the skill. You can end up with visual silliness like standing skill - bop - you hit your opponent for a few more points. Or animation breaks.

    d) Some skill immediately finish the execution phase of a skill. Apply all effects. Start the skill cooldown. Display their animation. Begin their own skill execution phase. You have a skill that has a long execution phase with a lot of time between say three execution hooks. You can get it done right now with one of these skills. I forget exactly how these skills are labeled. I do not believe all classes have them. IIRC - the Kick skill for Guardians is one of them.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  10. #10
    I have a simpler explanation:

    Button press--------------------IButton press--------------------I

    I------- Induction --------------II------- Induction --------------I
    I--Attack duration---I---Hit--- II--Attack duration---I---Hit---I

    I think Induction time does not affect Attack duration therefore there is a separate modifier for it (on armors, relics, etc.)

    Decreasing induction time - gives you the ability to fire again faster, but the time this can be interrupted is the attack duration - is not affected by the induction, only by the attack duration itself! That's my understanding?
    Last edited by Mystic4L; May 24 2013 at 11:56 AM.

 

 

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