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  1. #1
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    Captanking builds!

    Alright guys. I've noticed a lot of people in the revamp thread mentioning captain tanking, so apparently there's a lot more of you out there than I thought there was originally. Since healing is faceroll easy (RC spam!) and DPS is screwed without a revamp anyway, I've been trying to improve myself as a tank. I've got a build I'm pretty happy with personally, but the morale is significantly lower than a lot of others I've seen mention theirs, and I haven't figured out how to get more without giving up my mits or avoidances.

    For that reason, I'd like to see everyone's builds! I'm hoping for screenshots of gear and LIs, as well as suggestions on how I can improve mine.

    Please note two things:
    One, I will probably tell a lot of you that I won't go with your suggestions. Don't be offended at this, I've found a couple aspects that work incredibly well, and I'm not willing to give those up in order to improve any other aspect of my tanking, except for possibly aggro. A good example of this is my LI partials: I've found they work really well for tanking, so I'm not going to ditch those for morale ones, like people have suggested for me before. Don't let this stop you from suggesting anything though! (Except the partials for morale thing. Don't suggest that. I'll cut you.)
    Two, this is not a content! I'm not posting this with the intention of showing off (though it's a pretty sick setup, if you ask me ) and I ask that you do the same. This is a thread for improvement, not for competing.

    Without further ado, my build! If you have any questions on what a specific piece of gear is or why I went with x over y, please ask, I'm like 99% sure I can justify what I'm wearing (though that's not to say there's not something better). Since I'm an idiot and forgot my hope token, my morale should actually be at 15331. My Defensive Strike buff isn't up either, which should come to another +2620 physical mitigation, +524 tactical mitigation, and 1030 parry rating.





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  2. #2
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    To be totally honest, I think morale on relics is overrated. It really doesn't add up to that much. Better to fill out mitigations and such.

    Interesting to see that you've upgraded PA Targets that far. Makes perfect sense for a tank, though. Every bit of threat counts.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Interesting to see that you've upgraded PA Targets that far. Makes perfect sense for a tank, though. Every bit of threat counts.
    That was essentially my reasoning behind it, that and just hoping and praying I could get more defeat responses. (With tank gear and its inherent horrible crit rating, the only way to raise your chances on a free defeat response is through targets.) I had that sword made before the new armour sets were released on Bullroarer, but with the extra threat added to Pressing Attack, I'm glad I did.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    To be totally honest, I think morale on relics is overrated. It really doesn't add up to that much. Better to fill out mitigations and such.
    Yeah I think the only change I'd really like to make in OPs setup is to swap the settings for the ones with inc healing and extra BPE. Rest looks pretty fine - though jewellery could have some small improvements such as Cruelly Spiked Bracelet etc., but that is rather exclusive items unless you're really lucky.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Yeah I think the only change I'd really like to make in OPs setup is to swap the settings for the ones with inc healing and extra BPE. Rest looks pretty fine - though jewellery could have some small improvements such as Cruelly Spiked Bracelet etc., but that is rather exclusive items unless you're really lucky.
    The setting swap is actually already in my plans! (Though I had forgotten about it, haha.) I had originally put those in there for the ICPR, and the morale was just a bonus. Now that fate will be a much more effective method of obtaining ICPR, I can swap the might stat for fate on just one of those two LIs and pull in more ICPR than both of those settings combined.

    Jewelry is a work in progress and probably the area I need the most advice in. It's actually at the point where I think even the purple bracelet from Warg-pens (Cruelly Spiked Bracelet's inferior sister item) would be an improvement. Rings, at least, should see an improvement with U10, both because of the new golds and because I believe LG 2-set bonus is going away, which gives me more incentive to swap out both of those pieces.
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  6. #6
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    My gearing is:
    Hytbold Leader
    PvMP Rings
    Crafted Tactical Mit Necklace
    Crafted Tactical Mit Cloak
    Crafted Tactical Mit Necklace
    Golden Earring (yeah, I got lucky XD)

    The rest of the stuff is filled in with crafted gear that looks good, mostly to get the gearing good enough to tank with.

    Hopefully that helps.

  7. #7
    My setup contains alot of tanky stuff that none of the tanks wanted.

    For the set, i went with the yellow Hytbolt set (5 pieces) and the chestplate from some skirmish.

    http://imgur.com/WH8AwBo

    Buffs are: 10% morale, maximum parry buff (2nd age 85 with 3 crystals .. dont remember the value), banner, IDoME, talisman and battle/warding lore.

    No buff food. Also no combat buffs from Sure Strike and Defensive Strike.

    Power is a big issue with tanking. Thats also, why i choose the relics i have.

    PS: i really would like to try tanking Durchest (T2 CM) with it, but my Raid-Leader unfortunatly does not want to try it

    PPS: for the update i might want to exchange some of the relics/stuff ... but that depends on how much dependent we will be on raw power reg.

    EDIT: i personally would not max out PA targets. +4 is enough in most circumstances and the more important thing is, +5 is a really expensive update. Those point are spent elsewhere better (in my opinion)
    Last edited by Thorondir; Mar 04 2013 at 12:44 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    PS: i really would like to try tanking Durchest (T2 CM) with it, but my Raid-Leader unfortunatly does not want to try it
    I've managed to tank him pre-levers on captain, but as damage stands right now I don't think we'd be able to hold up after levers start getting pulled. Try convincing him again after U10, when the damage bug is supposed to be fixed.

    EDIT: i personally would not max out PA targets. +4 is enough in most circumstances and the more important thing is, +5 is a really expensive update. Those point are spent elsewhere better (in my opinion)
    I was thinking that, but didn't really see another place to use the points. Everything besides the stat legacy and my DPS are maxed, and I wouldn't want to put tons of points into the stat legacy (you just don't gain enough benefits from using any points in stat legacies to justify using any other than extra points on them). That leaves DPS. My original logic was that hitting more targets with slightly less DPS would grab more aggro in general than hitting less targets with slightly higher DPS. However, I can't really think of a time I have more than 6 targets to worry about anyway, except maybe Seat of the Great Goblin. I'll have to play around with that a bit, see if I can pick up some DPS by dropping a rank on the +targets.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    I've managed to tank him pre-levers on captain, but as damage stands right now I don't think we'd be able to hold up after levers start getting pulled. Try convincing him again after U10, when the damage bug is supposed to be fixed.
    i think, i should be able to tank it, at least my tanking stats are close to mediacore tanks, which can tank him too (even if it gets close sometimes)

    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    I was thinking that, but didn't really see another place to use the points. Everything besides the stat legacy and my DPS are maxed, and I wouldn't want to put tons of points into the stat legacy (you just don't gain enough benefits from using any points in stat legacies to justify using any other than extra points on them). That leaves DPS. My original logic was that hitting more targets with slightly less DPS would grab more aggro in general than hitting less targets with slightly higher DPS. However, I can't really think of a time I have more than 6 targets to worry about anyway, except maybe Seat of the Great Goblin. I'll have to play around with that a bit, see if I can pick up some DPS by dropping a rank on the +targets.
    To be honest, i rarely use the tanking equipment nowadays. Only for warg pens (damage in T2 is absolutly insane) and for offtanking in Barad guldur T2.

    For seat/iobars i go Master of War with full "damage" (or better heal/support) equipment and just try todo some damage, but we have an excess in healing classes (minstrels/runekeeper) which prefer to heal instead of dealing damage.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorondir View Post
    i think, i should be able to tank it, at least my tanking stats are close to mediacore tanks, which can tank him too (even if it gets close sometimes)



    To be honest, i rarely use the tanking equipment nowadays. Only for warg pens (damage in T2 is absolutly insane) and for offtanking in Barad guldur T2.

    For seat/iobars i go Master of War with full "damage" (or better heal/support) equipment and just try todo some damage, but we have an excess in healing classes (minstrels/runekeeper) which prefer to heal instead of dealing damage.
    I tend to go with whatever is needed for the IP/SotGG. Having both tanking and healing setups available makes it easier for my group to just bring whatever they want to bring. (I play with a lot of folks who play with a lot of alts.) Lately it's usually been a couple of tactical classes so I've been doing the tanking thing more.
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  11. #11
    U10 will bring more validity to equiping 2 Perseverance when tanking if there is lots off trash/adds.
    On beta i was the only non-squishy in a group of 5 doing Bells of Dale t2c and i went with 4 Hytbold Leader and 2 Perseverance with 5 yellow traits and now for wrath and renewed voice.
    All boss fights have lots of adds so i enjoyed the heal and aggro of 6s Rallying Cry combined with a shorther Routing Cry c/d.

    Erebor Leader will be a better set than Hytbold. Losing the evade bonus is a con but Erebor has much better stats and the aggro component in PA will be nice. Defensive strike bonus idk, if the chance, value and c/d remain same as i Beta build 2 it will not be much.
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  12. #12
    Post update 10 might a Fate stat legacy be better than the two -10% power cost legacies, possibly to the point you can replace them both and maybe add a Vit or PA Crit rating legacy?

  13. #13
    This is my current tank build (updated as of March 30, 2013). I only tank occasionally, so I haven't invested in a 2nd age tank weapon, and I just use my normal emblem.

    3rd age 1h sword: Grace of Eldar Days II (Beleriand, +380 Evade). T4 Pressing Attack Targets at rating 2, T5 Kick CD at rating 9, T6 Melee Skills Power Cost at rating 9, T5 Defensive Strike Armour Buff rating 9, T2 Pressing Attack Crit rating 3, and T4 Vitality rating 2 (+48). Relics: True Setting of the North, True Gem of the Twilight, Elder Rune of the Peaceful Glade, and Emblem of Protection.

    1st age age emblem: Enduring Might II (Tact Mit, +37 Might), legacies all tier 6, stat legacy at tier 4. At rating 9: Rally Cry CD, Rally Cry Healing, Vocal Skills Healing, Shadow's Lament CD, Muster Courage CD. At rating 5: Melee Skills Healing. At rating 2: Vitality +64. Relics: True Setting of the North, Red Agate Gem of the Steadfast, Elder Rune of the Shaded Vale, and Emblem of Battle.

    Armor: Four Hytbold Leader plus Gauntlets of the Fearless (75M, 150V, 768 Inc Heal) and Tomb Robber's Leaden Boots. Eomer's Protective Cloak and Carved Ash Buckler.

    Jewelry (all 85 except LLG): 2 Eternal Knights Bracelets, Knights Platinum Stud, LLG Martyr earring, Pitted Steel Chain, Bronze Banded Hawk's Talon, Hoary Platinum Band, and the gold barter sunbrand defender ring.

    Buffs: IDOME, 10% Motivating Speech, Parry tactic, Easternmet scrolls, +5 hope token, planted Moors or Hope banner, and buffs from defensive strike and sure strike.

    Virtues (16): Zeal, Innocence, Fidelity, Loyalty, and Tolerance

    Morale 15724 w. Moors banner, 17702 w. Hope banner
    Resistance 19.1%
    Crit Defence 37.3%
    Incoming Healing 19.7%
    Block 16.0%
    Parry 18.1%
    Evade 13.3%
    Physical Mitigation 70%
    Tactical Mitigation 70% w. Moors banner, 68.8% w. Hope Banner
    Last edited by Maelon; Apr 02 2013 at 06:37 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Pfft, you've got nothing to worry about, yeesh.

    I went more for evade though. You can evade attacks from any direction, but only block/parry frontal (the latter if not disarmed). Since we don't have block/parry reactive skills, I'd never choose block or parry over evade. So my emblem's title scroll gives +690 tact mit and +380 evade.

    I also didn't use the Grave Wound CD legacy, as I found it syncs nicely with every other Cutting Attack rather than having it available prematurely (and I rarely need it for the force taunt).

    I went with Strength of Will effects and Muster Courage CD to aid healing me.

    Gem-wise, I prefer the True Gem of Twilight which has 232 crit defense, 242 tact mit and 330 morale.
    Rune, -2.5% attack duration as we have few fast skills, so are significantly impacted by attack duration, 646 evade.

    Without any buffs up, I have a bit more vit than you, less morale, you have more might/agil so more b/p while my evade is 3278. I tend to run with the power banner instead, and ICPR/ICMR food more for the ICPR, but obviously ICMR doesn't hurt. Power pots every time they are off CD.

    Tanking Io's Peak is cake, war-speech healing all the way. Other stuff I've tanked (including off tanking in Hele) has been straight-forward so far. PUG healers tend to over-heal me initially, kin healers know they can DPS more.



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  15. #15
    Looks good to me. I have maybe 2/3's of your stats and I'm tanking Iobars, and Goblin town, and a few others T2c with no healers. If I had that I might just start farming them.

    I think the incoming healing really makes a difference, makes us more like wardens. Good thing about wardens is you usually don't have to have a healer, so you can bring 2 dps instead and blow through it faster.
    Last edited by Armitas; Mar 05 2013 at 07:05 AM.
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  16. #16
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    I wanted to wait til U10, since we were so close when this thread started. Buncha little changes I thought ought be accounted for. Also after reading this I swapped to the block gems from the critD/tact mit gems since A) crit D was being devalued and B) that kinda avoidance and partial mit probably means less damage than 200-some tact mit anyway. But I no longer cap tact mit by my lonesome. No biggie, a Mini or RK buff could put me there.

    My tankiest build. All my big-boy buffs on in these pics. No Hope trait tho. Thats a tact mit buff, the red one. EDIT: Oops, sorry, that pic was with crit buff. here's one with parry buff... but flickering buff bars is in play here so look at the buffs in the pic below. I really need to update my Nvidia drivers.


    Diluting the tank stats with 1x KPS and 1x Mighty Ancient Horse-lord's Bracelet. Replaced a 75 Defiant with 85 KPS and teal Valiant with gold Mighty, so not a fair trade though.


    LIs


    I hardly ever get a chance to use this stuff. Like I tank IP T2C in my least-tanky 10k build with 5r/2b.

    EDIT: oops, I need a title on my new sword. I got it with U10 when the 2nd ages were put in Skirm camp (rocked a 3rd age before).
    Last edited by Omen_Kaizer; Mar 11 2013 at 05:34 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Hey TinDragon, what do you think of the new T8 True Rune with the 606 parry, 606 evade, +10% partial parry/evade rating?
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  18. #18
    Is not available tanking with Halberd? Shield is a must? TY

  19. #19
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    Tanking without a shield works fine. Halberd is a good option for that.
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  20. #20
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    I have grown remiss with replying! I hope all of this will fit in one post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pero_the_Cappy View Post
    U10 will bring more validity to equiping 2 Perseverance when tanking if there is lots off trash/adds.
    Not a bad idea. I may give this a try. I haven't yet analyzed what gear setups I want post-U10.

    Erebor Leader will be a better set than Hytbold. Losing the evade bonus is a con but Erebor has much better stats and the aggro component in PA will be nice. Defensive strike bonus idk, if the chance, value and c/d remain same as i Beta build 2 it will not be much.
    I definitely agree, but it may be a while before I can get this, since they took the Flight raid out. It's really the only cappy set I really want of the three new ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jula View Post
    Post update 10 might a Fate stat legacy be better than the two -10% power cost legacies, possibly to the point you can replace them both and maybe add a Vit or PA Crit rating legacy?
    I'm pretty sure you're right on this. I actually have to go through all of my LIs to check this, not just cappy tank ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelon View Post
    This is my current tank build. I only tank occasionally, so I haven't invested in a 2nd age tank weapon, and I just use my normal emblem. My BPE is probably lower than other captain tanks, but I have excellent incoming healing bonuses and mitigations.
    Yeah, your mits a lot higher than mine, to the point where you could probably afford to actually drop a bit and still be capped in raids or very nearly capped in small-group. Apparently I really need that banner. The passives on it are the same as the war banner, correct? (Melee damage boost, morale, phys mastery?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    I went more for evade though. You can evade attacks from any direction, but only block/parry frontal (the latter if not disarmed). Since we don't have block/parry reactive skills, I'd never choose block or parry over evade. So my emblem's title scroll gives +690 tact mit and +380 evade.
    That's something I hadn't thought about when doing it. I was a bit into the guard mentality (no idea why, I don't have a guard) and so I was shying away from evade. Using those slots for evade instead of block and parry also gives you more total BPE, in theory, due to diminishing returns and evade being the lowest of the three. I think I'll be swapping both of my LI titles to evade today.

    I also didn't use the Grave Wound CD legacy, as I found it syncs nicely with every other Cutting Attack rather than having it available prematurely (and I rarely need it for the force taunt).

    I went with Strength of Will effects and Muster Courage CD to aid healing me.
    I've run into problems where I can't use Grave Wound after Cutting Attack for the Perceived Threat boost because a mob dies too soon or whatever. It's my fault really, I just throw them both up whenever they're up instead of planning when to use them, but the legacy helps me compensate for that.

    I have Strength of Will on a swap but I'm thinking about getting rid of Rallying Cry Healing to put that on my tank emblem so I don't have to swap in combat. Maybe once I get a first age to replace my healing emblem I can reconfigure my healing emblem into a better tank emblem. Still gotta figure that out. (Luckily, To Arms usually covers for me when I have to swap for Strength of Will, so it's not like I have to plan this out immediately.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Hey TinDragon, what do you think of the new T8 True Rune with the 606 parry, 606 evade, +10% partial parry/evade rating?
    I put one of those on both of my tank LIs (emblem and sword) the second day of U10. It took me a day to get all the relics from my other toons onto my captain and do the melding. :P Haven't gotten to actually test them yet, but it's a loss of ~100 parry and ~30 crit for a gain of ~500 evade per LI. I can't see how that would be bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Javipal View Post
    Is not available tanking with Halberd? Shield is a must? TY
    You can do both. I prefer a shield because trying to get good passives on a 2H sucks. 2H is definitely the way to go for extra threat though, plus with the crit defense changes (finding it on more things than just shields) 2Hs are now a more viable method. Of course, this still leaves the question of going with the 2H sword for 2% extra parry, or the halberd for extra threat.
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  21. #21
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    Alright guys, looking for an opinion on rings. Right now I'm rocking two of the Defenders rings, one gold (the crit defense proc) and one teal. I'm looking to upgrade the teal to a gold, but I'm trying to figure out which one. At first I was gonna go with the heal proc one, but it occurs to me that having an extra 1500 crit to get extra defeat responses and threat may benefit me more than the extra 1800 healed morale every ~35 seconds or so.

    Do any tanks have either of these, or have any opinions on which may benefit a captank more?
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Alright guys, looking for an opinion on rings. Right now I'm rocking two of the Defenders rings, one gold (the crit defense proc) and one teal. I'm looking to upgrade the teal to a gold, but I'm trying to figure out which one. At first I was gonna go with the heal proc one, but it occurs to me that having an extra 1500 crit to get extra defeat responses and threat may benefit me more than the extra 1800 healed morale every ~35 seconds or so.

    Do any tanks have either of these, or have any opinions on which may benefit a captank more?
    I'm considering a mitigations/crit defence pairing to drop the 'Moor's rings (and use a might/heal + might/crit defence out there).

  23. #23
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    I'm already essentially capped on mits (way overcapped on phys mit especially) and since the proc on the mits ring isn't up full time I can't really plan that into my build. Forgot to mention that in my original question.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Alright guys, looking for an opinion on rings. Right now I'm rocking two of the Defenders rings, one gold (the crit defense proc) and one teal. I'm looking to upgrade the teal to a gold, but I'm trying to figure out which one. At first I was gonna go with the heal proc one, but it occurs to me that having an extra 1500 crit to get extra defeat responses and threat may benefit me more than the extra 1800 healed morale every ~35 seconds or so.

    Do any tanks have either of these, or have any opinions on which may benefit a captank more?
    I have the Crit D and health proc ring, mostly because I wanted to !Science!

    Health proc ring is gonna give roughly 50-70 HPS on yourself depending on how often it procs and your inc heal. Seen values within the range from an elf warden with an RK healing him & shield bro in T2 BfE (20 mins) and on my captain vs one or two lvl 20 dorfs and only 20% inc heal (a few 10 min parses). Er... that's probably more heals than 1700 more crit rating would give you. But at the same time, you could just use the heal proc leggings and free up your ring slot for Wyrmfire; those Steel Greaves of Norbury have severe diminishing returns when used in conjunction with the Sunbrand ring, as I reported in the Spreadsheet thread. By itself it oughta be ~63% as good as a Sunbrand ring proc.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    I have the Crit D and health proc ring, mostly because I wanted to !Science!

    Health proc ring is gonna give roughly 50-70 HPS on yourself depending on how often it procs and your inc heal. Seen values within the range from an elf warden with an RK healing him & shield bro in T2 BfE (20 mins) and on my captain vs one or two lvl 20 dorfs and only 20% inc heal (a few 10 min parses). Er... that's probably more heals than 1700 more crit rating would give you. But at the same time, you could just use the heal proc leggings and free up your ring slot for Wyrmfire; those Steel Greaves of Norbury have severe diminishing returns when used in conjunction with the Sunbrand ring, as I reported in the Spreadsheet thread. By itself it oughta be ~63% as good as a Sunbrand ring proc.
    I actually got those leggings yesterday, but I wasn't a fan of the stats on them (didn't want to give up the avoidances and extra fate). Sounds like it's a good idea to get the heal ring then. I'll see if anyone else replies and barter for it tomorrow.
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    Steam: Sneakeh Snake[/CENTER]

 

 
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