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  1. #1

    Really confused on Captain stat priority

    I'm going to create a captain this evening, but I am very confused on what stats I want to stack on gear while leveling. My gut tells me I need to be stacking might and vitality, but just about every piece of "captain" gear has will on it. I've never played a captain, so I honestly don't know what the priorities are. Do healing captains stack will and tanking captains stack might? Or am I thinking too much like other MMOs? For what it's worth, I do plan on traiting red while leveling. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Before the 10.1 update, all classes gained power from their Will stat, so every class has gear with Will on it so that players could build up their power pool as they levelled up. The 10.1 update changed that (classes now have a certain amount of power based mostly on their exp level). Will does not give extra power any more, but the devs did not adjust the stats on the old gear, so we still have the Will stat on gear for classes that don't need it any more. There really isn't much we can do about it until the devs fix the stats on the old gear.

    Captain healing is based on your Might stat. More Might = bigger heals. Some of the captain's shoults will be tactical skills which could possibly benefit from Will (Will makes tactical skills more powerful), but I'm not completely sure about that, and damage from shouts is only a small proportion of the damage a captain does, the majority of damage a captain does is from hitting things with a weapon, which needs Might.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    I'm going to create a captain this evening, but I am very confused on what stats I want to stack on gear while leveling. My gut tells me I need to be stacking might and vitality, but just about every piece of "captain" gear has will on it. I've never played a captain, so I honestly don't know what the priorities are. Do healing captains stack will and tanking captains stack might? Or am I thinking too much like other MMOs? For what it's worth, I do plan on traiting red while leveling. Thanks.
    Tactical Mastery and Critical Rating effect your healing. Will used to give us tactical mastery, but they did a very nice change for us while back and gave that benefit to Might, so now we can easily increase our healing as well as our offense at the same time. Best thing to happen to Captain since the Valiant Strike upgrades in my opinion.

    For tanking, you would probably want to focus on Vitality and Avoidance stats, such as Parry, Evade, and Block.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 11 2013 at 10:57 PM.

  4. #4
    So they haven't made it so will and might do the same thing for captains right now? I know wardens have been given a grace period until 11 that makes might and agility both work. Not so with captains?

  5. #5
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    Captains used to get tactical mastery (+healing) from Will. That changed with Rise of Isengard in Sept 2011. But not all the under-level-65 gear was changed to reflect this.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    So they haven't made it so will and might do the same thing for captains right now? I know wardens have been given a grace period until 11 that makes might and agility both work. Not so with captains?
    I can't remember if there was a grace period or not. I think I returned to LOTRO after these changes were implemented, but if there was a grace period it's long gone by now.

    Will isn't a total waste and it shouldn't hurt you too bad while leveling to have some of it on your gear though so I wouldn't worry too much about it. This game's solo content is ridiculously easy, and you could probably do a lot of it naked.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 11 2013 at 11:31 PM.

  7. #7
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    From the virtues, you will want to pull as much tactical mitigations as possible. That's the one stat that's pretty critical to get stacked decently high.

    As far as gear goes, might and crit all the way. Might will give you physical mastery, tactical mastery, and physical mitigations - while crit makes you work. You will also want to be mindful of your vitality and fate, which give you morale and power regeneration (and a bit of crit from fate as well). Crit is best gotten from raw crit than from fate (just more per stat "slice").

    And as mentioned above, we used to pull tactical mastery (which was outgoing healing at the time) from will, which is why the older gear looks..... odd.....

    Edit:
    As far as tanking goes, yes you want to stack vitality because we only pull 3 points of morale from a point of vit, unlike the tank classes that pull 5.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 12 2013 at 01:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I can't remember if there was a grace period or not. I think I returned to LOTRO after these changes were implemented, but if there was a grace period it's long gone by now.

    Will isn't a total waste and it shouldn't hurt you too bad while leveling to have some of it on your gear though so I wouldn't worry too much about it. This game's solo content is ridiculously easy, and you could probably do a lot of it naked.
    I don't believe there was a grace period, but that was for a few reasons.
    • It came in with a level cap increase, so people were regearing anyway.
    • There was a several month advance notice, more time than the wardens had to prepare.
    • Most captains already had might gear anyway, even if it wasn't as good as their Will gear (since DPS was a secondary role even back then) so the change didn't affect them as much, since they were still able to DPS with the same DPS gear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    I don't believe there was a grace period, but that was for a few reasons.
    • It came in with a level cap increase, so people were regearing anyway.
    • There was a several month advance notice, more time than the wardens had to prepare.
    • Most captains already had might gear anyway, even if it wasn't as good as their Will gear (since DPS was a secondary role even back then) so the change didn't affect them as much, since they were still able to DPS with the same DPS gear.
    I see.

    I played this game before the might changes, but I was taking a break during the period the changes actually took affect, so that's why I was unaware of the details.

  10. #10
    Well as long as the captain community is being so helpful (which I had heard they are!) I have another question:

    2 hander or 1 hander/shield for tanking? Seems I remember reading captains can block with their weapon and have no need of a shield, but when has an MMO allowed you to equip one weapon for all situations?

  11. #11
    To summarise for the OP:
    1) Will used to be useful to Captains but this changed some time ago
    2) Low level Captain gear was not changed so may retain less useful stats
    3) The 3 most important stats to look for on gear are Might, Critical Rating and Vitality (in my opinion)
    4) A bit of Fate or In Combat Power Regen is useful as Captains can have power issues.

    My experience is you'll struggle to stack any particular stat up until level 65 as you will find gear has a balance of stats on it, although you can favour some stats more than others. This doesn't really matter while levelling. After level 65 you'll start to get gear that will let you stack might to a much greater extent if you so want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Well as long as the captain community is being so helpful (which I had heard they are!) I have another question:

    2 hander or 1 hander/shield for tanking? Seems I remember reading captains can block with their weapon and have no need of a shield, but when has an MMO allowed you to equip one weapon for all situations?
    It's a good question to ask and there's a discussion on "What weapon is best for x situation" that pops up every couple of weeks. For the most part it comes down to personal play style, but each does offer one advantage over the other: the 2H will generate more aggro than the S&B setup (halberds specifically get a higher amount of threat per attack, and 2Hs in general will do more damage than a 1H, thus generating a bit more aggro), but the S&B will offer a little more survivability (2Hs get passives but you can't choose them, whereas you're able to pick a shield that matches the stats you're looking for, and the stats tend to be more tank focused, such as crit defense, block rating, or incoming healing).

    Really the only time you're definitely gonna want to use one over the other is while DPSing: you'll want a 2H for sure. For healing and tanking, both setups offer their advantages and disadvantages and both are viable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Well as long as the captain community is being so helpful (which I had heard they are!) I have another question:

    2 hander or 1 hander/shield for tanking? Seems I remember reading captains can block with their weapon and have no need of a shield, but when has an MMO allowed you to equip one weapon for all situations?
    It boils down to survivability vs threat.

    The stats on the shield are going to be better than the stats built into a 2H weapon..... however, the 2H weapon will have slightly more DPS than the 1H (due to damage range, and how skills calculate damage), and the hablerd will trump all for threat production (it adds threat to ALL attacks).

    Given that my biggest problem as a captain tank is threat at the moment, my weapon of choice is the hablerd. If that should ever change, there's going to be a lot more variance there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Well as long as the captain community is being so helpful (which I had heard they are!) I have another question:

    2 hander or 1 hander/shield for tanking? Seems I remember reading captains can block with their weapon and have no need of a shield, but when has an MMO allowed you to equip one weapon for all situations?
    The Leader of Men trait line gives Captains the ability to block with a 2-handed weapon. Me personally, I don't think wearing a shield is worth it unless you are after the extra block. But a lot of other Captains do. Best advice is probably just to try them both out, and see which you like better.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 17 2013 at 11:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    I don't believe there was a grace period, but that was for a few reasons.
    • It came in with a level cap increase, so people were regearing anyway.
    • There was a several month advance notice, more time than the wardens had to prepare.
    • Most captains already had might gear anyway, even if it wasn't as good as their Will gear (since DPS was a secondary role even back then) so the change didn't affect them as much, since they were still able to DPS with the same DPS gear.
    Also, the Captain change came with the change for ALL classes. When Captain's primary stat was changed to Might, the Warden's was also Might. Wardens are getting a late change to Agility when nobody else's primary stat is changing.

    The main reason is because Wardens wear Medium armor, and if they change to Agility then ALL of the medium armor classes will use Agility as a primary stat. Therefore, all the existing high-agility medium armor quest rewards will be useful to Wardens too. Plus, if you think about it, Wardens are supposed to tank via avoidance so you'd better be agile for that!

    All the Heavy armor classes already have Might as a primary stat. Guardians are supposed to tank via block, parry, and wearing thick armor, so it makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Well as long as the captain community is being so helpful (which I had heard they are!) I have another question:

    2 hander or 1 hander/shield for tanking? Seems I remember reading captains can block with their weapon and have no need of a shield, but when has an MMO allowed you to equip one weapon for all situations?
    Given that you are just starting out, I'd say your question is very very long term. A levelling captain is a pretty mediocre tank, and even at end game we have some notable tanking deficiencies (AOE aggro, lack of aggro copy, severe power deficit come to mind). I personally tend to go 2H for tanking and for most content not tanking, but think it is useful to build/carry a 1-H + Shield for circumstances where you are taking damage and aren't LOM traited (and for a bit of stat tuning, or for the mythical golden captain shield that doesn't drop for me), and sometimes for healing as well. If you actually want to tank while levelling, you pretty much need to go 1-H and shield for all but the easiest content, as until you get the LOM capstone you can't block with a 2-H... Captains stack might, and might gives block, so having the ability to block is pretty key for mitigations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    or for the mythical golden captain shield that doesn't drop for me
    Want one of mine?
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  18. #18
    grrrr... we wants that shield; that said, did Warg Pens t2CM with another cappy and RK and got the blue Warg-Trainer's Shield, which is darn good, first time.

    I've done WP t2 on minnie and hunter as well, but it was never as easy as the other night when we had 2 cappies (Nost traited deep yellow + hope banner, me traited MoW + war banner though I usually run HoH) and a heal-specced RK. Thing about warg pens is it is NOT a DPS race so healy combos like this work just fine. From all the epic RK single-target healing and Nost's and my RCs and VSes, nobody went below 2/3 morale at any point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    grrrr... we wants that shield; that said, did Warg Pens t2CM with another cappy and RK and got the blue Warg-Trainer's Shield, which is darn good, first time.

    I've done WP t2 on minnie and hunter as well, but it was never as easy as the other night when we had 2 cappies (Nost traited deep yellow + hope banner, me traited MoW + war banner though I usually run HoH) and a heal-specced RK. Thing about warg pens is it is NOT a DPS race so healy combos like this work just fine. From all the epic RK single-target healing and Nost's and my RCs and VSes, nobody went below 2/3 morale at any point.
    Tier2 Warg Pens seemed a lot more difficult when it first came out. I think it's because of all the gear upgrades that have come out since then or something - because it feels a lot easier now. All of the instances do. I even duoed tier2 Fornost the other day - with challenge - and it was a piece of cake. I think they need to add a tier3 to the instances or something to keep up pace with all of the gear upgrades. Because how things are now, you don't really need focused class roles for much of the content.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Tier2 Warg Pens seemed a lot more difficult when it first came out. I think it's because of all the gear upgrades that have come out since then or something - because it feels a lot easier now. All of the instances do. I even duoed tier2 Fornost the other day - with challenge - and it was a piece of cake. I think they need to add a tier3 to the instances or something to keep up pace with all of the gear upgrades. Because how things are now, you don't really need focused class roles for much of the content.
    Damage in scaling instances was bugged (actually, one of the most noticeable instances was WP). They fixed it with U10, which is why you've noticed instances becoming easier. I think they did the math on the scaling before they realized there was a bug though, so damage seems to have been brought a little too low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Damage in scaling instances was bugged (actually, one of the most noticeable instances was WP). They fixed it with U10, which is why you've noticed instances becoming easier. I think they did the math on the scaling before they realized there was a bug though, so damage seems to have been brought a little too low.
    Ah I see, well that definitely explains it. Ty for clearing that up for me. I was really confused and thought it may have just been that I was better geared now or something.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Well as long as the captain community is being so helpful (which I had heard they are!) I have another question:

    2 hander or 1 hander/shield for tanking? Seems I remember reading captains can block with their weapon and have no need of a shield, but when has an MMO allowed you to equip one weapon for all situations?
    The others have given excellent answers to your first question. Regarding the second, you could use the same weapon for all situations, but it would not be ideal. Although dps and healing weapons can use similar legacies and relics (the stats you need for dps and healing are pretty much identical), a tanking weapon should have different legacies and relics from other roles.
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