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  1. #1
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    Lotro Progression

    Smaug T2 Hardmode
    Ranking Kin Date Server
    1 The Mellowship 06.03.13 Eldar
    2 Erznemessis 07.03.13 Morthond
    3 Entropy 09.03.13 Brandywine
    3 Polaris 09.03.13 Eldar
    3 We Got This 09.03.13 Nimrodel
    6 Off Peak 10.03.13 Elendilmir
    7 Defenders of Might 11.03.13 Meneldor
    7 Wipeout / Avorthalier 11.03.13 Anduin
    9 Ramble On 12.03.13 Elendilmir
    9 =Soldurii= 12.03.13 Vanyar
    9 Resurrection 12.03.13 Snowbourn
    12 The Phoenix Rising 13.03.13 Vilya
    13 Ascension 14.03.13 Evernight
    13 Unborn Legends 14.03.13 Sirannon
    13 Unquale 14.03.13 Sirannon
    16 Amlug Herth 15.03.13 Morthond
    16 Krieger des Lichts 15.03.13 Morthond
    16 Noldor 15.03.13 Arkenstone
    19 Brothers of Metal 17.03.13 Gwaihir
    20 Rhunen Rendir 19.03.13 Silverlode
    21 Hope and Glory 19.03.13 Gilrain
    22 Ithil Calad 22.03.13 Vanyar
    23 Hobbitual 25.03.13 Landroval
    23 Caught White Handed 25.03.13 Riddermark
    25 Aftermath 29.03.13 Riddermark
    26 The Aftermath 30.03.13 Eldar
    27 Defiant 14.04.13 Brandywine

    Battle for Erebor T2 Hardmode
    Ranking Kin Date Server
    1 Ascension 21.03.13 Evernight
    2 The Mellowship 26.03.13 Eldar
    3 Ramble On 28.03.13 Elendilmir
    4 Entropy 29.03.13 Brandywine
    5 Element Zero 04.04.13 Snowbourn
    6 We Got This 07.04.13 Nimrodel
    7 Hecki Hecki Pateng 11.04.13 Vanyar
    8 Legion der Freunde 15.04.13 Belegaer
    8 Resurrection 15.04.13 Snowbourn
    10 Wipeout / Avorthalier 18.04.13 Anduin
    11 Off Peak 20.04.13 Elendilmir
    12 Zorn der Maiar 21.04.13 Maiar
    12 Methestel 21.04.13 Meneldor

    Flight to the Lonely Mountain T2 Hardmode
    Ranking Kin Date Server
    1 - - -
    Last edited by Acadios; Apr 22 2013 at 02:48 AM.
    Aybara - Tank
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  2. #2
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    Raid - Progression

    I work on this for all player who wants a status update of kins that have killed any T2 hardmode. This thread is a test version for a new multi boss raid. If a new cluster goes live, this thread will be updated. There will be errors, so feel free to send me a PM and I will fix it. And excuse my bad english pls

    Rules:

    For the kills in the table, I used the already existing screenshots and the post-dates in the forum.

    For future kills, please post a screenshot with the achivement of T2 Hardmode. On this screenshot, please open a source which shows the date. Please use only this thread.
    And I need this information: Kin / Server / Boss / Date

    If a new multi boss raid goes live, it is possible that I create a table with T1/T2 when its hard. So post all your kills. This ranking system is based off of date of kill.

    I will update the table as often as I can. At least one time in a week.

    Update:
    I will remove the points and list all T2 HM kills. Please post all your T2C kills, and I will update the table.
    Last edited by Acadios; Apr 11 2013 at 01:20 PM.
    Aybara - Tank
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  3. #3
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    *Old-Raid-Progression*
    Aybara - Tank
    Brothers of Metal [Gwaihir]
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  4. #4
    While I can kind of appreciate the effort you put into compiling this data, I must strongly disagree with your method of 'ranking' kinships, especially over a cluster of raids that has been met with the least amount of enthusiasm that has ever been displayed by LOTRO's raiding playerbase. Many of us found the mere idea of claiming a Smaug t2c kill in a progression thread as humorous, as that fight is on the same difficulty level as Draigoch. Why would you weight a kill in Smaug anything like you would weight a BFE t2c kill? They're worlds apart in difficulty.

    This has been a very sad expansion as far as instanced PVE content goes. I really can't support any attempt to legitimize it as a worthwhile platform for ranking performance of any nature.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0720600000015a567/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5
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    I totally agree with your opinion. I hope that we will receive another real and difficult raid cluster. For that I am beginning to develop this progression table. Perhaps I will adjust the distribution of the points again after difficulty.
    Aybara - Tank
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadios View Post
    Perhaps I will adjust the distribution of the points again after difficulty.
    I foresee discussions on that part though. Most fights are difficult because of different reasons, some require good communication, others require high DPS and others again require good positioning. How do you compare them?

    I'm personally a much bigger fan of the "list up those kinships that has done X in the order of who did them first" threads such as http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ression-thread
    Of course it's your thread and you can do what you want, but that's how I prefer it.

  7. #7
    I have to agree with Ygaer. When the new raids were released, we already knew Smaug would be the easy one, so we started working on Battle first night. When we took a off night from battle, we learned Smaug in one night and got CM the next. To say we rank lower because we went for the harder raid first is very flawed. Maybe each raid should have its own point system based on how hard it is and how many kins have beaten it within the first two weeks or something.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    How do you compare them?
    I thought of a kind of categories of Raids. The problem is that I can not decide beforehand what Raid is difficult. With my current system are all made ​​the same and all have the same opportunities. This is currently the biggest advantage. Maybe I will consider, to lead the table without the point system.
    Aybara - Tank
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm429 View Post
    I have to agree with Ygaer. When the new raids were released, we already knew Smaug would be the easy one, so we started working on Battle first night. When we took a off night from battle, we learned Smaug in one night and got CM the next. To say we rank lower because we went for the harder raid first is very flawed. Maybe each raid should have its own point system based on how hard it is and how many kins have beaten it within the first two weeks or something.
    Or maybe make it a full on popularity contest like the 'best at their class in the moors' threads. But you're right in that the rank by who did what first is flawed.

    It would be nice if someone took the reins and actually made a legitimate progression thread.
    Mihiraa-Fallarden ~ Situational Awareness ~ Arkenstone
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    Original Challenger of Gothmog x2

  10. #10
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    Update: I will remove the points and list all T2 HM kills. Need some time (:
    Aybara - Tank
    Brothers of Metal [Gwaihir]
    www.brothersofmetal.de

  11. #11
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ression-Thread Snowy raid progresion list ... nice idea maybe ??
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  12. #12
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    Server: Nimrodel
    Kinship: We Got This
    (server first on both Smaug and Erebor T2C, but almost every raid group has done Smaug now)

    Erebor T2C - http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...r-T2-Challange
    Sunday April 7

    Smaug T2C - http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...enge-completed
    Saturday March 9

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantherantha View Post
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ression-Thread Snowy raid progresion list ... nice idea maybe ??
    Yes nive idea. But if I list all T1 and T2 kills, the list is confusing. If we get a new hard Raid-Cluster I will list T1 and T2 (:

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda- View Post
    Server: Nimrodel
    Kinship: We Got This
    (server first on both Smaug and Erebor T2C, but almost every raid group has done Smaug now)

    Erebor T2C - http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...r-T2-Challange
    Sunday April 7

    Smaug T2C - http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...enge-completed
    Saturday March 9
    Updated!
    Last edited by Acadios; Apr 12 2013 at 03:18 AM.
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  14. #14
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    http://x672.net/Ascension/content.ph...enge-Completed

    this is only proof i can gather about ascension time/date for smaug,

    just so you can add us in there.
    .
    EN Makadam || Vraelper
    Snow Makalorebreaker || Makaa

  15. #15
    There has been a few kills on Sirannon too.

    Unquale and Unborn Legends both got Smaug T2c on 14/03.
    A bunch of others got it later, but I could not mention them all or remember when they did it.

    No Flight T2c or Erebor T2c kill yet on our server as far as I know. Erebor should be done rather soon though : I know we are getting really close, and I heard that one kinship got them to 3% the other night.

    Sort of agree with anyone here though concerning the idea of rankings being flawed here especially for Smaug as just like Ramble On, it took us an unbelievably large amount of two raiding nights to get it : one for T2 (discovery mode !) and one for T2c.
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makadam-EU View Post
    http://x672.net/Ascension/content.ph...enge-Completed

    this is only proof i can gather about ascension time/date for smaug,

    just so you can add us in there.
    Done

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabli View Post
    There has been a few kills on Sirannon too.

    Unquale and Unborn Legends both got Smaug T2c on 14/03.
    A bunch of others got it later, but I could not mention them all or remember when they did it.

    No Flight T2c or Erebor T2c kill yet on our server as far as I know. Erebor should be done rather soon though : I know we are getting really close, and I heard that one kinship got them to 3% the other night.

    Sort of agree with anyone here though concerning the idea of rankings being flawed here especially for Smaug as just like Ramble On, it took us an unbelievably large amount of two raiding nights to get it : one for T2 (discovery mode !) and one for T2c.
    Can I find screenshots somewhere ?
    I know that Smaug is way too easy for real progression, but if we get a new multi boss raid and the first boss is easy as Smaug, everyone wants the boss in the table. Everyone has an equal chance.
    Aybara - Tank
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    www.brothersofmetal.de

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Acadios View Post
    Can I find screenshots somewhere ?
    UB :


    Unquale (posted the day after) : http://www.unquale-lotro.fr/forum/vi....php?f=4&t=358
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  18. #18
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    Caught White Handed, Riddermark, March 25 2013 T2C Smaug...

    It'll take me some work to dig up a screenshot, if one even exists because its one of the few runs I wasn't on.

    I'd hope the T2 server-first clear of T2 Flight speaks enough to my reputation.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    I'd hope the T2 server-first clear of T2 Flight speaks enough to my reputation.
    You'd hope, but since Flight is apparently still exploitable I'm not sure Flight kills alone are enough to provide proof of reputation.

    Of course anyone who knows anything about your prior raiding experience would trust your reputation regarding claims about downing content.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000019dccb/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    You'd hope, but since Flight is apparently still exploitable I'm not sure Flight kills alone are enough to provide proof of reputation.

    Of course anyone who knows anything about your prior raiding experience would trust your reputation regarding claims about downing content.
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...91#post6745391

    Given the exploits I'm aware of. I'd hope that's sufficient proof it was non-exploited.
    (adding a second screenshot prior to the end)
    Last edited by Crell_1; Apr 12 2013 at 02:17 PM.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellery01 View Post
    While I can kind of appreciate the effort you put into compiling this data, I must strongly disagree with your method of 'ranking' kinships, especially over a cluster of raids that has been met with the least amount of enthusiasm that has ever been displayed by LOTRO's raiding playerbase. Many of us found the mere idea of claiming a Smaug t2c kill in a progression thread as humorous, as that fight is on the same difficulty level as Draigoch. Why would you weight a kill in Smaug anything like you would weight a BFE t2c kill? They're worlds apart in difficulty.

    This has been a very sad expansion as far as instanced PVE content goes. I really can't support any attempt to legitimize it as a worthwhile platform for ranking performance of any nature.
    All the factors of this update aside ranking a kinship by date is not a proper comparison of skill. Take my kin for example, as the leader I have martial arts classes Tuesday and Thursday, social life maybe 1-2 nights a week. So on average we raid 3-4 nights a week, then take into consideration all of us have jobs so we start after people get home and end early so people can get to bed. So about 12 hours of raiding a week maximum. There are kins out there full with kids, retired people, obsessed people or simply unemployed people, stay at home mom/dad etc. I guess my point is it took us 3 nights from ground 0 to do BFE T2C so I'm not really concerned if I'm going to participate but generally speaking the most time invested for hard content updates will be the winners. So for example it took us 12 hours of work for a 4 night, 1 week window, but if a kin played 6 hours a night for 5 nights update week to be the winners that makes them rank #1 cause they didn't log out? Even if someone completed it in less time? This could be an interesting discussion .

    I like the idea of a ranking page but I really don't see how you can do it, at least in this game.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Apr 12 2013 at 08:27 PM.
    Yelk, Hunter| Rank 15 | Arkenstone | Leader of Shock and Awe
    Original Challenger of Saruman
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    I guess my point is it took us 3 nights from ground 0 to do BFE T2C so I'm not really concerned if I'm going to participate but generally speaking the most time invested for hard content updates will be the winners.
    We used 4 nights x 3 hours to do BfE T2C but you must also remember that when you do something first don't have anyone to ask for help, after we did BfE T2C I got like 6 PM's asking about the fight and I know a lot of other kinmates got PM's as well, some people even made a character on our server to ask us questions about it.

    Not saying our answers helped or that everyone that did it got help for somewhere as most kinships probably want to find it out by themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    So for example it took us 12 hours of work for a 4 night, 1 week window, but if a kin played 6 hours a night for 5 nights update week to be the winners that makes them rank #1 cause they didn't log out? Even if someone completed it in less time? This could be an interesting discussion .
    Well, there really isn't a better way to do it as there is no way to see how long it took someone to do it and what is someone used 3 nights but 1 of the nights they had someone disconnect in the fight or someone's sister was downloading so it made the connection bad for a player making it harder to play?

    The only thing you can measure is the time from the raid goes live to someone post prof of doing it

  23. #23
    There are plenty of good points here regarding server firsts or time-based rankings, so without expanding too much on what has been said:

    * These raids feel like skirmishes with mechanics. The challenges are interesting for two of them (Smaug lol, never have I spent so little time learning a challenge! And completed with a Tank in purple gear and a mini with no healing book) but they are still not at the level of a hard, multi-boss, locked raid that people can't learn the mechanics of at level 20 or simply try over and over on t1 and t2 on the same day. As such I don't think it is in our interest as raiders to give the impression that we are happy with this and ranking ourselves by this.


    * I do not think that the speed of a kill is a good indication of a kinship's skill. Such ranking would be arbitrary as it forgets that many tactics were worked on during the beta and that many kinships have slow raid schedules as some members or officers have busier lives than others. Many mechanics of the raids were available on the beta forums and from developer interviews, and could be learned underleveled.

    Now what I do have is an idea of how such a ranking could be composed:

    1. Age of the kinship or alliance = some raiding kinships have been around for a long time, the longevity of these kins (when combined with current clears) are often worthy of note as the players will have long experience with mechanics and progression. Of course a newly formed kinship of experienced players is of similar stature, and a newly come player of great skill is not to be undone by being new, however there is that "there and back again" that resilient kins have that I admire.

    2. Percentage of completion = All Clears t1, All Clears t2, All Clears Challenge. Ranging from Casual to Hardcore, regardless of speed should be a good indicator of what kinships do what and in what depth.

    3. Cleared before next update = further updates to the game (that introduce gear) often make some content easier.

    A combination of the above would be a somewhat fairer way to measure the quality of each kinship on its own merits rather than as a comparison to other servers or kinships. If two kins are running t2 challenge content on farm mode, there is no gap of skill because one finished it a day or a week before the next, or at least that has been my view since the BG/OD days.

  24. #24
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    Not sure why it even matters. Done is done. Who gains anything from it?
    Kinship history is no basis for ranking anything, as the ebb and flow of player activity in this game is much too variable. Kins that have been world first or second in the past don't even have a raiding presence at all anymore (or aren't talking about it). Some kins don't post their accomplishments at all. Etc etc.

    The data is poor at best and there is no real way to make it good. If you want to say your kin did something, that's well and fine, but the context doesn't really exist outside of the particular thread - and can't possibly hold any comprehensive quality.

    All that aside, time played to victory would seem like the best way to rank, if it needs to be done at all. Again, such data is subject to falsification without question.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gattsu_EU View Post
    We used 4 nights x 3 hours to do BfE T2C but you must also remember that when you do something first don't have anyone to ask for help, after we did BfE T2C I got like 6 PM's asking about the fight and I know a lot of other kinmates got PM's as well, some people even made a character on our server to ask us questions about it.

    Not saying our answers helped or that everyone that did it got help for somewhere as most kinships probably want to find it out by themselves



    Well, there really isn't a better way to do it as there is no way to see how long it took someone to do it and what is someone used 3 nights but 1 of the nights they had someone disconnect in the fight or someone's sister was downloading so it made the connection bad for a player making it harder to play?

    The only thing you can measure is the time from the raid goes live to someone post prof of doing it
    As the leader of the raid I really don't care how anyone else does it, my raid needs to learn it the best way for us, not for someone else. I'm assuming most kinships are like that.

    Your last statement saying the only thing you can measure is the release time to down time is silly. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess your kin does more then 9 hours a week raiding and thus you are excited to be ranked number one on an MMO forum for staying home? I don't get it.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Apr 13 2013 at 12:54 PM.
    Yelk, Hunter| Rank 15 | Arkenstone | Leader of Shock and Awe
    Original Challenger of Saruman
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

 

 
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