We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 73

Thread: Fix the Wargs

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    280

    Exclamation Fix the Wargs

    Seriously, us wargs can only do a few hundred (if that) in damage. But I can get hit for over 6k by a RK or hunter with their bows? C'mon devs....match the wargs to be able to do serious amounts of damage. My cats at my house can do more damage with their claws. Fix this or step aside & let the women in Turbine fix it. Because obviously you men don't have a clue as to what you are doing....

    Here's some that just happened to me and these are the low hits....

    Amanhir scored a critical hit with Improved Burning Embers on Murkmare for 2,114 Fire damage to Morale.

    Quietknife scored a devastating hit with Improved Subtle Stab on Murkmare for 1,274 Beleriand damage to Morale.

    Kumitz scored a critical hit with Remorseless Strike on Murkmare for 3,001 Beleriand damage to Morale.

    And what I barely managed to do to them...

    Murkmare scored a hit with Sudden Pounce on Armytha for 480 Common damage to Morale.

    Murkmare scored a critical hit with Sudden Pounce on Magrandir for 296 Common damage to Morale.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000c031c/01006/signature.png]Ridka[/charsig]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Mazauk's den
    Posts
    526
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassie4486 View Post
    Kumitz scored a critical hit with Remorseless Strike on Murkmare for 3,001 Beleriand damage to Morale.
    .
    Thats a bad remorseless. I got a 9.3k hit with remorseless.
    [center][IMG]http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t393/grapsn/1013265_608478239173945_469554244_n_zpsc9ae7993.jpg[/IMG] [/center]

    Hear me bark!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lothlorien
    Posts
    1,708
    The highest I've been hit by remorseless is 7.5k

    Back on topic:

    I agree with the OP. Either nerf freeps or allow creep damage classes to be able to hit as hard. I hate getting ground into the dirt by one spammable skill (Ceaseless Argument anyone?) while having my skills crit less than the tooltip says.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  4. #4
    Would love to see some crit rating AND crit protection added to BP's.
    May solve some of our crit problems for the ranked creeps.
    [highlight][color=black][size=2][B](•_•) Out numbered? Out gunned?
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    (⌐■_■) Challenge Accepted[/B][/size][/color][/highlight]

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassie4486 View Post
    Seriously, us wargs can only do a few hundred (if that) in damage. But I can get hit for over 6k by a RK or hunter with their bows? C'mon devs....match the wargs to be able to do serious amounts of damage. My cats at my house can do more damage with their claws. Fix this or step aside & let the women in Turbine fix it. Because obviously you men don't have a clue as to what you are doing....

    Here's some that just happened to me and these are the low hits....

    Amanhir scored a critical hit with Improved Burning Embers on Murkmare for 2,114 Fire damage to Morale.

    Quietknife scored a devastating hit with Improved Subtle Stab on Murkmare for 1,274 Beleriand damage to Morale.

    Kumitz scored a critical hit with Remorseless Strike on Murkmare for 3,001 Beleriand damage to Morale.

    And what I barely managed to do to them...

    Murkmare scored a hit with Sudden Pounce on Armytha for 480 Common damage to Morale.

    Murkmare scored a critical hit with Sudden Pounce on Magrandir for 296 Common damage to Morale.
    There's some info you're not giving us either.

    For 1) what are the statistics on your warg?
    2) what are the statistics on your opponents and 3) what were the situationals?
    [highlight][color=black][size=2][B](•_•) Out numbered? Out gunned?
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    (⌐■_■) Challenge Accepted[/B][/size][/color][/highlight]

  6. #6

    Question

    Is it just me or does that first paragraph sound sexist?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lothlorien
    Posts
    1,708
    Quote Originally Posted by lalborn View Post
    Is it just me or does that first paragraph sound sexist?
    Heh, I was thinking the same thing xD.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    6,073
    I shot an 87 last week and toward the end of last season I was around 90 for a good month. Turbine/lotro is a nice hobby/diversion for casual game play thats about it. Ive whined and QQ'd for more dps for the burst damage class (har, har) it isnt happening the devs here are mostly clueless.

    Dont waste your time (look at my post count, Ive wasted plenty) just take it for what it is, a game.

    Now if you can help me with my wedge, Ill qq a storm for more DPS.

    Deal?

    Also Im considering bringing my warg to R11 and WL to 9 (Shield bash is nice). So should you have large amounts of time to waste go ahead, Ill pop in from time to time to support the QQ.

    Trout season starts in a week or so, so hurry up already you should already have 8 replies in this thread QQing for more DPS. Rookie...
    Last edited by Thorgrum; Apr 09 2013 at 10:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Critical defense is currently broken and it has much more impact on low critical rating than in high critical rating.

    Since creeps are limited to low critical magnitude, our criticals are &&&&.
    Since freeps can have higher critical and also many skills/stances/atunements have critical magnitude bonifications it means they get very nice criticals.

    It all comes down to critical defense being substracted to critical magnitude instead of being multiplied.

    For example if player A is a Creep with 30% critical defense and 30% critical magnitude and Player B is a Freep (like a RK) with 30% critical defense and 30% critical magnitude.

    Creep would doBase critical (150%) + Critical Magnitude (+30%) - Freep Critical Defense (30%) = 150% damage on criticals.

    Freep should be doing same damage on criticals, but since he is a RK like class gets + 100% magnitude by being fully attuned, +100% magnitude from skill procs, + 100% magnitude by special skill like EC = 150% + 30% - 30% +100% +100% +100% = 450% damage on criticals.

    Let's supose that base damage for both skills is 1000, then creep would be doing 1500 raw damage and freep would do 4500, therefore a skils that on paper would be the same, is actually doing 3 times more damage on criticals.

    Creeps have a few skills with added critical magnitude (if I remember well Reaver Devastating Strike is one), but some Freeps have many more skills with added magnitude.

    For example lighting RKs have a lot of these bonus (I think they are the most glaring example), Minstrels have +100% magnitude on WS skills when fully traited, Champions Remorseless have some bonus (value is not shown in tooltip), etc.

    How could this be solved?

    From one side critical defense factor should be multiplied instead of substraced to affect in the same way regardless of ammount of critical magnitude. This change would be good both for PvMP and for PVE (crit defense is currently no as good as it should and has lost effect since U10).

    Additionally a hard cap should be applied on the actual critical magnitude (not on the base magnitude) so maximum crit is controlled to a nice level (for example maximum crit 200% and devastated 250%) to avoid stupid crits. This cap could be applied only for PvMP since it appears that devs like to see 15k EC devastates on PVE land (poor tank trying to tank with these crits) but I would add it to all the game since it is stupid to have these big crits.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/22219000000054873/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [SIZE=1][B][COLOR=#000000]Mordecai CHM - Morken GRD - Gilthen MIN (and many others)[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

  10. #10
    Roll a Reaver.
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000008bdab/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [/CENTER]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    954
    Shadow warg is an excellent solo class despite being ultra squishy. Wargs evade capability makes up for that somewhat.

    It just requires patience and good judgement. I know of one or 2 wargs on my server that can pick the weakest target in the middle of a freep ball, down it in about 5 seconds and be up out or oblitereated but not before their target is dead.

    Good movement, mouse turning and ability to get positional damage is key to taking down tougher opponents.

    To the OP,
    Sudden pounce crit numbers are not indicative of warg dps. Take a look at your rotation as well. Claws/Rend/Claws/Rend spam for the most part gets the job done.
    Last edited by 87_Suited; Apr 10 2013 at 10:35 AM.
    Bigslick

  12. #12
    First of all, I do agree. On a good day with OPs in favor of creeps, wargs can still struggle to output enough DPS and damage to counter freep heals (or return damage/DPS).

    That said....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cassie4486 View Post
    And what I barely managed to do to them...

    Murkmare scored a hit with Sudden Pounce on Armytha for 480 Common damage to Morale.

    Murkmare scored a critical hit with Sudden Pounce on Magrandir for 296 Common damage to Morale.
    You need to trait Shadow Fang, this is a must. Even with the Will changes, Shadow (tactical) damage is still better than Common damage against freeps (unless something has seriously changed in that regard that I am unaware of). Beyond that, I agree with a poster above me... It'd help, too, to take build into consideration. I trait pretty much straight damage/crit glass cannon and have (since I swapped to this build) had little to no trouble getting hits in the 1k range.
    [center][color=#CC3300]Lieutenant Sersi Niflhel[/color] [color=#666699]· [i]Retired[/i][/color]
    [color=#993333]"I will give you no quarter, and I will take none."[/color][/center]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,052
    Ridka, I think the complaints about the massive damage disparity are falling on deaf ears, and one more thread isn't going to likely change it.

    A RK on our server hit me with EC for over 8K through 13 Aud and 2 Tact mit corruptions.

    That said, you didn't really say what your setup was (or is) on warg.

    I have pretty much abandoned all but lip-service in going for survivability on my warg and have moved to a mostly damage build. In most cases I will be in Shadow, with the shadow-damage trait slotted (you didn't mention that).

    I use 3 crit chance increase corruptions, 1 crit defence, PfH2, and a mastery boost. Still testing it, but it's a pretty healthy damage increase over a more survivable build. I can into flayer as need dictates. Can still melt a hunter, even a good one, or a low ranked champ easily enough.

    I think the state of warg is we have to be honest about what we can, and can not do, at the moment. Going toe to toe with an RK that knows how to play is essentially impossible, even in flayer. Assuming you ever found one alone (they tend to run in tactical heal-ball packs on Nimrodel). Feel free to chat about it, when I am out.
    Parahelion - Burg, Krustii - Champ, Shurmann-Cappy, Tommac-Min, Lazarrus-LM, Thromdir-Hnt, Theodolan-Grd, Kozzmeaux - Bear - Dancing in the Dark kinship.
    Wrecks - Warg - The Black Blade

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiKell View Post

    Freep should be doing same damage on criticals, but since he is a RK like class gets + 100% magnitude by being fully attuned, +100% magnitude from skill procs, + 100% magnitude by special skill like EC = 150% + 30% - 30% +100% +100% +100% = 450% damage on criticals.
    What ? Do you mind listing where you are getting these numbers from ?

    On topic - Wargs need a dmg/mitigation boost. But that should come at the cost of increasing the CD on the escape skills. In this update I would rate wargs as the weakest creep class in terms of what they can do solo and what they bring to a group.
    Last edited by AceDwarf; Apr 10 2013 at 11:43 PM.
    Used to be known as Zedred - Runekeeper - Windfola

  15. #15
    I've been doing just fine on my R7, and I've been working with 10-12 audacity for a little while. I manage to kill the majority of the freeps that come out of gv alone, of course there's certain freeps I do not stand a chance against but that is fully expected considering my rank, their gear and skill level *shrug*

    QQ more i guess
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000030b05c/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by xxforcardassia View Post
    You need to trait Shadow Fang, this is a must. Even with the Will changes, Shadow (tactical) damage is still better than Common damage against freeps (unless something has seriously changed in that regard that I am unaware of).
    I've seen it suggested that it could be better for creeps to drop their shadow or fire traits because of Freeps super high tactical mitigation.

    I'd like to see the numbers first but it kinda stands to reason that common damage, being physical damage, may not be such a poor choice as Freeps are told to stack tactical mitigation for PvMP.
    "the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best" - Henry VanDyke

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AceDwarf View Post
    What ? Do you mind listing where you are getting these numbers from ?

    On topic - Wargs need a dmg/mitigation boost. But that should come at the cost of increasing the CD on the escape skills. In this update I would rate wargs as the weakest creep class in terms of what they can do solo and what they bring to a group.
    Maybe you need to read my post again. I state that it is a "RK like" class not a "RK". It is quite difficult to do proper comparisson with real data since tooltips does not say enough information and point is to show how badly implemented critical defense is one of the problems we face currently (lazy devs not properly checking their changes).

    But, by the way, do you deny a RK in lighting is giving several critical magnitude increases?
    Some I have found:
    Code:
    Solitary thunder 3 deep:
    +25% Fury of Storm Critical Multiplier
    + (Level x 8) Critical rating --> 680 critical
    
    4 Deep:
    Essence of Storm deals +50% damage on criticals
    Code:
    Essence of Storm: +3% Critical Chance per Battle attunement
    +100% damage on critical hits

    And then we have base damage increases:
    Code:
       Harsh Debate
    Ceaseless Argument has a 15% chance to put the Harsh Debate buff on yourself, which increases tactical damage by 15%. Lasts 20 seconds.
    Closing Remarks Epic Conclusion now increases Crit Chance by 15% and deals +15% extra damage for each of the Thunderous Words and/or Harsh Debate buffs currently active. Cooldown is also decreased. -60s Epic Conclusion Cooldown
    Do you deny that RKs are consistenly doing 8k crits on fully audacity WLs and can crit for up to 15k on a Tyrant?

    Why do you think creeps are destroyed when you pass, because you are a good, skilled player? LOL

    Back on topic as you say, either Freep DPS is reduced (moslty big criticals that are more harmful) or Creep DPS is increased, and to be like freeps it should be a lot more spiky, so Bestial claws should be doing 5ks consistenly on freeps.

    We can try to balance creeps but problem is in the underlying system. Caps need to be placed to protect some kind of ballance.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/22219000000054873/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [SIZE=1][B][COLOR=#000000]Mordecai CHM - Morken GRD - Gilthen MIN (and many others)[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    I've seen it suggested that it could be better for creeps to drop their shadow or fire traits because of Freeps super high tactical mitigation.

    I'd like to see the numbers first but it kinda stands to reason that common damage, being physical damage, may not be such a poor choice as Freeps are told to stack tactical mitigation for PvMP.
    I saw a small test on these forums.

    Common and Shadow were doing more or less same damage without debuffs but common was a winner once armour debuff was applied.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/22219000000054873/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [SIZE=1][B][COLOR=#000000]Mordecai CHM - Morken GRD - Gilthen MIN (and many others)[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    GV Stairs
    Posts
    755
    Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiKell View Post
    Maybe you need to read my post again. I state that it is a "RK like" class not a "RK".
    Sure, and that's why you talk about RK skills like EC and attunement.

    Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiKell View Post
    but since he is a RK like class gets + 100% magnitude by being fully attuned, +100% magnitude from skill procs, + 100% magnitude by special skill like EC = 150% + 30% - 30% +100% +100% +100% = 450% damage on criticals.
    You wargs have been easymoding nubs and freeps for a long time, choosing your fights and using bugged pots, brands and mord brands.
    Maybe you thought the class was so easy as that but no, you need some skill and effort now.

    Good wargs on my server still can do several solo kills/day, and most of wargs still go in packs.

    Stealth classes must be weak, specially if this classes means 30-40% of creep population and have best running capabilities ever.
    [IMG]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/254/6rpe.jpg[/IMG][FONT=Verdana]
    Tindalas is Laurelin's negative nancy. ([/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Felathurin aka Brunt)[/FONT]

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Ettenmoors
    Posts
    495
    But if they fix wargs then /ruding someone won't feel nearly as good
    Last edited by HinderSpam; Apr 11 2013 at 04:45 AM. Reason: derp
    Rank 15 Blackarrow HinderSpam
    55,000 Killing Blows and Counting

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    6,073
    Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiKell View Post
    Back on topic as you say, either Freep DPS is reduced (moslty big criticals that are more harmful) or Creep DPS is increased, and to be like freeps it should be a lot more spiky, so Bestial claws should be doing 5ks consistenly on freeps.

    We can try to balance creeps but problem is in the underlying system. Caps need to be placed to protect some kind of ballance.
    You forgot the part where you give freeps more morale if the dps is going to be evened out or nerfed. Wouldnt want it to be unbalanced, would you sport? Lol, imagine it would be like after RoR lot of creeps with some mad skill right....

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1,143
    Quote Originally Posted by TiNdA-LoS View Post
    Maybe you thought the class was so easy as that but no, you need some skill and effort now.
    rofl...

    [Tangaar Captain R 7][Barukhazad Minstrel R 9]

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    You forgot the part where you give freeps more morale if the dps is going to be evened out or nerfed. Wouldnt want it to be unbalanced, would you sport? Lol, imagine it would be like after RoR lot of creeps with some mad skill right....
    They wouldn't need more moral. Not with all the "oh &&&&" skills each and every Freep class have. Add to that their far greater HPS and I would suggest that giving Creeps more DPS, even Freep levels of DPS, would still leave Freeps at an advantage.

    A good system would work something like this; You can:

    Have good DPS
    Have good HPS
    Have good utility

    But you can only have two at a time.

    This is nothing like the system we have and giving Creeps better DPS would still only give them one out of three.

    The reality is, Freeps have all three and the idea that a little more moral will off set that is just total rubbish.

    You wouldn't want Freeps to get so bloated and lazy again, from having their cake and eating it, that when a balanced book like ROR comes along they think they have it tough now would you?
    Last edited by ksjock; Apr 11 2013 at 08:40 AM.
    "the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best" - Henry VanDyke

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    GV Stairs
    Posts
    755
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    when a balanced book like ROR
    Oh yeah, a balanced book like RoR.
    So balanced that creeps need to OOC call every freep in the map just to get some easy points.

    You want balance?
    Start removing maps, horses and march.
    [IMG]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/254/6rpe.jpg[/IMG][FONT=Verdana]
    Tindalas is Laurelin's negative nancy. ([/FONT][FONT=Verdana]Felathurin aka Brunt)[/FONT]

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    22 Acacia Avenue
    Posts
    790
    Quote Originally Posted by TiNdA-LoS View Post
    Oh yeah, a balanced book like RoR.
    So balanced that creeps need to OOC call every freep in the map just to get some easy points.

    You want balance?
    Start removing maps, horses and march.
    Are you ok?

    Here, have some hot cocoa...

    [IMG]http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z434/spance76/thrag_zps674d7c88.jpg[/IMG]

 

 
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload