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  1. #1
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    "Stateless" X Bro Skills

    One of the biggest problems with the captain class when not in a group are the three X Bro skills that are essentially dead for the captains that do not wish to use a herald. What I would like to see is a "neutral" state for Inspire, Strength of Will, and To Arms that is somewhat helpfull to the captain, but nothing truly overpowering. This neutral state would only occur when there is no currently active X Bro.

    What comes to mind is something akin to how Shield Brother once was:
    Inspire Weak version of Song Brother Inspire
    Strength of Will Weak version of Shield Brother Strenght of Will
    To Arms Weak version of Blade Brother To Arms

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 08 2013 at 03:01 PM.

  2. #2
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    Sounds like something I'd be willing to at least TRY out.

    Also--They could go back to allowing you to mark your banner... Though I think that was an accident :P

  3. #3
    I can not back this up.

    First of all, i have found that situations where pet is not better in solo are rare. I mostly use it to keep it simple for myself sometime.
    You just opt not to benefit from bro skills but from banner buffs.
    And what you suggest would make me even more OP in moors. I already need to find a way to make a forum post to suggest freeps losing BP.

    EDIT: thought about it more and maybe it would be ok. 1/2 value on inspire and 1/3 on to arms and sow. Didnt edit what i previoulsly said on purpose.
    Last edited by Pero_the_Cappy; Apr 09 2013 at 12:39 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pero_the_Cappy View Post
    I can not back this up.

    First of all, i have found that situations where pet is not better in solo are rare. I mostly use it to keep it simple for myself sometime.
    You just opt not to benefit from bro skills but from banner buffs.
    At least at end game, the herald is largely a sadly uses sack of protoplasm that follows you around loyally. Other than Herald of Hope heal (decent but not awesome), the skills are lame and the common damage dealt is pathetic. IMHO of course. I summon a herald anyway for hard solo jobs, as the reflected blade brother inspire/to arms abilities are worth the loss of the banner. But really, they need love...

  5. #5
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    Most classes have at least one skill that is useless solo, if not many. Not every skill needs to be useful in every situation.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  6. #6
    I'm not sure the skills are useless -- but they ARE designed to be used with another player (or a herald).

    However, several classes have skills that aren't at all used unless there is someone else to target them on or be in a group. For example, the Guardians "protection" skills. Most classes rezzes (they don't work on yourself!). The mini's revamp dread removal skill which now removes a debuff (requires a target other than yourself).

    In other words -- there are a number of skills that play nicely with others. Group friendly skills and abilities are somewhat important to a series of books that started as a fellowship and then splintered into smaller groups from time to time.

    Random off-topic trivia: other than the ring-game with bilbo encountering gollum and the One Ring...
    Are there any other solo "quests" in the lord of the rings books?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by twittfounder View Post
    Random off-topic trivia: other than the ring-game with bilbo encountering gollum and the One Ring...
    Are there any other solo "quests" in the lord of the rings books?
    Yes, the hobbits endured many solo quests as they assailed the fridges at Rivendell.....

  8. #8
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    Eowyn totally would have soloed the Witch King if Merry hadn't stabbed the mob for XP. I believe this is the lore justification for Open Tapping.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pero_the_Cappy View Post
    I can not back this up.

    First of all, i have found that situations where pet is not better in solo are rare. I mostly use it to keep it simple for myself sometime.
    You just opt not to benefit from bro skills but from banner buffs.
    And what you suggest would make me even more OP in moors. I already need to find a way to make a forum post to suggest freeps losing BP.
    And when the creeps total your herald... where are you then? Down morale and the XBro cause they shot it.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 09 2013 at 06:58 PM.

  10. #10
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    This is actually a pretty intriguing idea. PvE Captains might not be excessively burdened by needing a Herald out to reflect a -Brother skill, but something like this could be pretty handy for PvP Captains.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    This is actually a pretty intriguing idea. PvE Captains might not be excessively burdened by needing a Herald out to reflect a -Brother skill, but something like this could be pretty handy for PvP Captains.
    And if it needs to be a PvMP only change, this could be something that isn't active unless you have the PvMP buff (which you get by being in the 'Moors), so it's not active in PvE.

  12. #12
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Eowyn totally would have soloed the Witch King if Merry hadn't stabbed the mob for XP. I believe this is the lore justification for Open Tapping.
    Coffee, meet desk.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    This is actually a pretty intriguing idea. PvE Captains might not be excessively burdened by needing a Herald out to reflect a -Brother skill, but something like this could be pretty handy for PvP Captains.
    I believe solo a herald should be a clear win, with a banner as an OK alternative, but not quite as powerful overall. Yes some people don't like managing pets (heck, I don't love it, but am OK with it). But a Captain is by design a group centric class, a "leader". Some number of our skills will always involve having other group members to target, and I'm OK with that. I'd just like a herald who does more, either DPS, or utility wise, or something, and isn't a tag along that lets me get the effects of to arms/SOW when solo.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Coffee, meet desk.
    So was that you that put coffee rings and drips all over our older maps instead of using a coaster? I had been blaming the dwarves.


    ___

    In my experience BB and herald is more powerful than a banner in 1v1s.. The applied powers of herald with BB or the banner are not equivalent. The stuns, herald heal, and BB effects are far more valuable than the health and slight offense that the banner provides even though the herald itself provides no significant dps value. The same is true for pve, it's easier to blow through solo content with archer and BB.

    IMO our "choice" between herald or banner is suppose to be a choice between two play styles whose out comes are equivalent in power. That is no longer the case... it is now a choice between simplicity at the cost of power, or power at the cost of simplicity. To be complete we should make them both simplistic in their workings and return their power to an equivalent level. *This can be done by buffing the banner option as mentioned and the simplicity can be normalized by dropping the **BB maintenance on a herald while solo.

    *(not to exclude all the necessary work that needs to be done to heralds themselves)
    **(Strength of Will, To arms)
    Last edited by Armitas; Apr 11 2013 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Edited for simplicity
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by twittfounder View Post
    Random off-topic trivia: other than the ring-game with bilbo encountering gollum and the One Ring...
    Are there any other solo "quests" in the lord of the rings books?
    Sam's quest to rescue Frodo from the tower after Shelob's lair would be one (and I think an AWESOME session play when we get to Mordor... ). Also, the books talk about 'off-stage' events such as Aragorn's search for Gollum, which seemed to be a mostly solo hunt.
    Jacobar (Burglar, main) Eryendil (Minstrel) Justinius (Captain) and lots of alts, Ring Guard of Rivendell on Gladden (originally from Elendilmir)

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by twittfounder View Post
    Random off-topic trivia: other than the ring-game with bilbo encountering gollum and the One Ring...
    Are there any other solo "quests" in the lord of the rings books?
    • Sam spying on Gandalf and Frodo
    • Gandalf penetrating Dol Guldur and recovering Thrain's map and key
    • Frodo fleeing the fellowship at Amon Hen
    • Gandalf facing off against the Balrog
    • Bilbo sneaking around the Elvenking's palace and freeing the dwarves
    • Bilbo sneaking into Smaug's lair and the subsequent repartee
    • Aragorn's struggle against Sauron with the Palantir
    • Pippin's search for Gandalf to rescue Faramir from Denethor
    • Gandalf's ride to Minas Tirith to investigate the history of Frodo's ring

    There are a bunch in the Silmarillion, but that could last all day.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    • Sam spying on Gandalf and Frodo
    • Gandalf penetrating Dol Guldur and recovering Thrain's map and key
    • Frodo fleeing the fellowship at Amon Hen
    • Gandalf facing off against the Balrog
    • Bilbo sneaking around the Elvenking's palace and freeing the dwarves
    • Bilbo sneaking into Smaug's lair and the subsequent repartee
    • Aragorn's struggle against Sauron with the Palantir
    • Pippin's search for Gandalf to rescue Faramir from Denethor
    • Gandalf's ride to Minas Tirith to investigate the history of Frodo's ring

    There are a bunch in the Silmarillion, but that could last all day.
    Awesome stuff. I'd also add Sam getting Frodo to Mount Doom after they flee the orc army, since Frodo was too occupied with the Ring to do anything. "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you."
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