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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Erebor Set, what were you thinking

    Let me preface this rant by saying that it's great that we now have the ability to get +10% crit chance to our heals from the tier 1 and tier 2 erebor sets, that's great. (They stack, for those interested.) But let's take a second to talk about the four set bonus for a blue line minstrel.

    On the face of it, it seems neat, a HoT that comes from Bolster courage. If the HoT was significant, it might be worth using. I figure, bolster courage accounts for maybe 10% of my heals in raids now, it's used far less now than it once was. It wouldn't be great, but you did a nice job with the Chord of Salvation HoT so conceivably this one could have turned out well. It didn't. The set bonus is useless, and I would even argue that this is the worst set bonus that you have added to this game (not excluding non-functional set bonuses that have been added in the past.)

    See figure 1, my parse. I sat and used bolster courage for 15 minutes to see the chance for the HoT to apply.



    What we can see here is 800k worth of bolster courage healing, 16k of that was from the HoT.

    That is, for those who are more numbers inclined, a 2% increase to my bolster courage. Wooo! (It's about a 10% chance to apply the HoT, that is utterly disastrous.)

    The HoT is laughably small, see figure 2.




    Now let's run through some numbers, for the sake of humor.

    This is a 2% increase to bolster courage, a skill you use 20% of the time at most. (10% is more realistic, but I'll give turbine the benefit of the doubt here.) This is a .4% increase to your bolster courage healing. Cool.

    Let's say you parse around 2k heals per second in a raid. That seems to be about average, I've parsed more, I've parsed less, but 2k seems reasonable. The HoT ends up being close to 191 health per tick. Cool.

    191 health per tick, or about 64 health per second during the time that this HoT is active is, well, Cool. Let's say, and this would be a stretch, that this HoT is active once every minute. That's 191x6 health per minute, or 1146 health per minute. That's 19.1 extra heals per second. Cool. That's 1% extra healing in all. Cool.

    Thanks for this 4 piece bonus. It'll be in my vault for the foreseeable future. At least it can't be dyed, so I'll be looking grey for a while. I'll stick with using just 2 pieces. I hope you don't mind.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Thank you for sharing this. It's nice to see the numbers before acquiring the actual set. I'm disappointed to say the least, I was quite excited at the prospect of a HoT on Bolster Courage. Oh well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    285
    +rep for sharing the info and tests you ran. Thanks!

    I think i'll stick with the 4 Hytbold Watcher and 2 Erebor Watcher sets.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by stockboy View Post
    +rep for sharing the info and tests you ran. Thanks!

    I think i'll stick with the 4 Hytbold Watcher and 2 Erebor Watcher sets.
    That's the problem I'm facing actually.. I'm pretty sure I'll stick with 4 hytbold.. but I would be unhappy to exchange hat (golden one) & shoulders(hytbold).. this would cost me 600 morale in exchange for 5% crit chance.. now the question is.. is it really worth it?

  5. #5
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    Was this parse taken when you were grouped or solo? I noticed that the hot applies raid wide.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Parse was when I was solo. It's an AoE HoT when it procs, and it looks to be 20m radius around the minstrel casting bolster courage.

    If I had parsed it in a raid the numbers would seem far more significant than they really are. The bonus could apply to 50 people and it would still be bad. It's a smaller HoT than soliloquy of spirit.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    +rep to you sir

    Can't thank you enough for sharing this info.

    However , i was one of the unlucky ones that actually bartered for that set , only to see with my own eyes that i wasted a lot of
    resources for nothing.
    Just one thing though, even though i agree with you that this is the most pathetic set bonus ever implemented ( especially for set-4 ) , making tests on a single target is not really fair , since we are talking about a group buff.
    It's still awful though , no matter how you look at it , no doubt about that.

    Hopefully it gets buffed in the closed future.

    Which reminds me.......

    From http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Update_10.1,Official

    Increased the potency of the 4 piece Minstrel set bonus for Greater Erebor Armour of Resolve. The HoT applied by Bolster Courage is now more potent and scales more appropriately

    Makes you wonder how it was before the update huh........

    Also thanks for confirming that combining tier 1+tier 2 set bonuses work.

    I would be really interested if someone could take this a step further and compare the ( in my eyes ) most decent builds for raids:
    1)Hytbold set 4 + erebor set 2
    2)erebor resolve set 2 tier 1 + erebor resorve set 2 tier 2 + erebor harmony set 2 tier 2

    I really want to evolve , and stop using Hytbold set , but other than option 2 , i can't really see anything else worth investing in.
    And even that.... not sure it could actually prove better.A few better stats here and there , some extra crit defense , very useful in raids and the extra heal crit chance.
    +10% healing will always be too hard to outplay though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Thanks for posting this. I've been looking at the stats on those sets, and my 10% heal from Hytbold, and wondering if seal grinding was going to be worth it. You've provided concrete data. The stacking crit appeals more than the heal atm.

    I would be really interested if someone could take this a step further and compare the ( in my eyes ) most decent builds for raids:
    1)Hytbold set 4 + erebor set 2
    2)erebor resolve set 2 tier 1 + erebor resorve set 2 tier 2 + erebor harmony set 2 tier 2
    seconded

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    From http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Update_10.1,Official

    Increased the potency of the 4 piece Minstrel set bonus for Greater Erebor Armour of Resolve. The HoT applied by Bolster Courage is now more potent and scales more appropriately

    Makes you wonder how it was before the update huh........
    Fingers crossed its one of those cases where it made it to patch notes but not live.

    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    Also thanks for confirming that combining tier 1+tier 2 set bonuses work.
    Yeah thats very interesting, I could have sworn they said T1 and T2 don't stack.

    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    I would be really interested if someone could take this a step further and compare the ( in my eyes ) most decent builds for raids:
    1)Hytbold set 4 + erebor set 2
    2)erebor resolve set 2 tier 1 + erebor resorve set 2 tier 2 + erebor harmony set 2 tier 2

    I really want to evolve , and stop using Hytbold set , but other than option 2 , i can't really see anything else worth investing in.
    And even that.... not sure it could actually prove better.A few better stats here and there , some extra crit defense , very useful in raids and the extra heal crit chance.
    +10% healing will always be too hard to outplay though.
    perhaps Option 3) erebor resolve set 2 tier 1 + erebor resolve set 2 tier 2 + Gold erebor hat (same proc as ring) + Gold ITA gloves (+3% physical AoW).
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sessumaru View Post
    Parse was when I was solo. It's an AoE HoT when it procs, and it looks to be 20m radius around the minstrel casting bolster courage.

    If I had parsed it in a raid the numbers would seem far more significant than they really are. The bonus could apply to 50 people and it would still be bad. It's a smaller HoT than soliloquy of spirit.
    I agree on that. The set and the hot are so disappointing. I've heard that the 2 piece from the Erebor and Greater Erebor sets don't stack, but I was parsing >50% crit heals during several GB runs.

    Has anyone tried out the Call to Greatness proc? I'm curious how often that works. I wonder if it'll apply group wide if you have 2 pieces of OD when you initially use it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Ya, I was consistently parsing 45-50% crit chance with both sets equipped, so I am assuming they stack. It's been consistent over multiple 20+ minute runs, this would be highly unlikely otherwise.

    If anyone finds anything about the Call to Greatness set that would be neat, I won't be bartering for it until later this week, most likely. It doesn't sound too good, but it's easily macroable, so it could be useful to swap to for CtG.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sessumaru View Post
    Ya, I was consistently parsing 45-50% crit chance with both sets equipped, so I am assuming they stack. It's been consistent over multiple 20+ minute runs, this would be highly unlikely otherwise.

    If anyone finds anything about the Call to Greatness set that would be neat, I won't be bartering for it until later this week, most likely. It doesn't sound too good, but it's easily macroable, so it could be useful to swap to for CtG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Krucipisek View Post
    Did 50 group Call to Greatness in full group = 6*50 = 300 Call to greatness and 0 re-apply effect after expiration. Please can any DEV, GM check if bonus really work? Because i dont think it work.

    The Minstrel sets seem like a real triumph.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sessumaru View Post
    If anyone finds anything about the Call to Greatness set that would be neat..
    The Call to Greatness chance has a 5% chance to reapply. It works on self and Fellowship individually if you are also using the OD set.

  14. #14
    Ill be sticking, and already knew this, but thanks for sharing it with others, with my 4 hyt and 2 greater, tahnk ya very much, 10% healing is a hellllluva lot. I recently managed 3.8k hps popping all sorts of Cd's and whatnot in a sammy when I was bored end boss

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Orisk View Post
    Ill be sticking, and already knew this, but thanks for sharing it with others, with my 4 hyt and 2 greater, tahnk ya very much, 10% healing is a hellllluva lot. I recently managed 3.8k hps popping all sorts of Cd's and whatnot in a sammy when I was bored end boss
    3.8K. pfft! You can do better than that



    8 minute fight(BfE T2), 4000+HPS, not to shabby I say! But really HPS is a terrible measure of effectiveness. That run I was bored (do we see a pattern developing here?), made thing far harder than usual, and HPS was nearly twice what I normally get. Problem with high HPS rotations is relying too heavily on AOE heals meaning you are sacrificing single target healing and increasing the chance they are on cooldown when you really need them.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    3.8K. pfft! You can do better than that



    8 minute fight(BfE T2), 4000+HPS, not to shabby I say! But really HPS is a terrible measure of effectiveness. That run I was bored (do we see a pattern developing here?), made thing far harder than usual, and HPS was nearly twice what I normally get. Problem with high HPS rotations is relying too heavily on AOE heals meaning you are sacrificing single target healing and increasing the chance they are on cooldown when you really need them.
    NIceeeeeee, I have done better actually, but I average about 3.8k (without cappy crits >:P) sometimes I get bored to and I just start spamming everything under the sun to boost hps then spam it in my group :P

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    3.8K. pfft! You can do better than that


    I think there's a problem with your plugin. It only shows one Anthem being up.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Orisk View Post
    NIceeeeeee, I have done better actually, but I average about 3.8k (without cappy crits >:P) sometimes I get bored to and I just start spamming everything under the sun to boost hps then spam it in my group :P
    Yeah I think I could do a bit better too, looking at the items I have on my top bar (which I use for getting the groupwide CtG) I can tell I've got the Gold gloves and robe from OD and Annuminas as it is slightly better for the DPS (extra 3% damage on AoW). I could eek out a bit more by going 2 Greater Erebor instead, but din't have them in my pack at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    I think there's a problem with your plugin. It only shows one Anthem being up.
    No it's right I only have one anthem up. The screenshot was taken after the fight so its just a lingering anthem
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  19. #19
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sessumaru View Post
    Ya, I was consistently parsing 45-50% crit chance with both sets equipped, so I am assuming they stack. It's been consistent over multiple 20+ minute runs, this would be highly unlikely otherwise.

    If anyone finds anything about the Call to Greatness set that would be neat, I won't be bartering for it until later this week, most likely. It doesn't sound too good, but it's easily macroable, so it could be useful to swap to for CtG.
    Was that a noticeable difference after slotting the 2 erebor bonuses?

    I can parse over 45% crits consistently with 4 hytbold + 2 greater erebor. So I was wondering if it was worth replacing the +10% healing for an extra +5% crit chance.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Elemiire View Post
    Was that a noticeable difference after slotting the 2 erebor bonuses?

    I can parse over 45% crits consistently with 4 hytbold + 2 greater erebor. So I was wondering if it was worth replacing the +10% healing for an extra +5% crit chance.
    I've worked this through before, in terms of your increase of healing in real terms, you are looking at 5-6% increase with 4 Hyt - 2 G.E, while the 2 L.E and 2 G.E you see more like a 3-4% increase. So for pure healing I don't think the switch is worth it BUT it depends on what your priorities are and how comfortable you are with gear switching as to whether what you loose in healing, you can make up with the 2 armour slots you are freeing up.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    I've worked this through before, in terms of your increase of healing in real terms, you are looking at 5-6% increase with 4 Hyt - 2 G.E, while the 2 L.E and 2 G.E you see more like a 3-4% increase. So for pure healing I don't think the switch is worth it BUT it depends on what your priorities are and how comfortable you are with gear switching as to whether what you loose in healing, you can make up with the 2 armour slots you are freeing up.
    I decided to give it a try and go for 2 Erebor watcher, 2 greater Erebor watcher and 2 greater Erebor song protector. Worst that can happen is that I waste my seals, and I don't have anything to spend them on anyway .

    Thanks everyone for the data.

  22. #22
    Seeing how every other Greater Ererbor 4-part bonus is terrible, I never even bothered with it on my mini. I assumed the HoT would be really low or never proc.

    Still nice getting it confirmed with some raw (and not so impressive) numbers.

    I tend to use 2 greater and 2 lesser for the 10% crit. Puts me on roughly 53-54% crit when healing, very useful for raids requiring a lot of AoE heal. Because you will be spamming IF and its a pretty bad heal unless it crits.

    If Hytbold 4 part added 10% on all my outgoing heals, I would use that instead. But it only adds 10% of your base value when healing. The bonus is not applied after the traits, legacies, gear etc. So its more like 5-6% extra healing and I pick 5% crit over that and I still have free slots for some golden stuff. Not that it makes that much difference compared to using 4 Hytbold. Its like trying to decide between pasta and rice for dinner lol. Both will be awesome, unless you avoid carbs.

    Anyway I dont think Minstrels should be to disappointed with the Erebor armour really, our crit bonus is a lot better than what most classes are getting. My champ, Warden and cappy gains absolutely nothing from using Erebor stuff. My Lore-master, only situational, when I'm on CC-duty or if tanks need a bit of buffing up with inc healing.

  23. #23
    Sorry about the off-topic post but how do you get the little window that shows amount of damage/heals etc that I've seen in the pictures in this topic?
    Is it already in the game? Or a plugin (if yes; how is it called)?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Drawbar View Post
    Sorry about the off-topic post but how do you get the little window that shows amount of damage/heals etc that I've seen in the pictures in this topic?
    Is it already in the game? Or a plugin (if yes; how is it called)?
    Its a plugin called combat analysis.

    http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...tAnalysis.html
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    Its a plugin called combat analysis.

    http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...tAnalysis.html
    Nice! Thanks for that!

 

 

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