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  1. #1

    What is Changing, and When?

    Everytime I consider rolling a warden, I read that the class is "about to be completely revamped". Just wondering exactly how it's changing, and when this will happen (as in a date, rather than "the next update or release").

    It's a very difficult class to understand, and I simply can't imagine trying to relearn it after spending thousands of real-world hours studying tooltips, memorizing charts, and practicing in-game. Come to think of it, it sounds a lot like school.......

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Everytime I consider rolling a warden, I read that the class is "about to be completely revamped". Just wondering exactly how it's changing, and when this will happen (as in a date, rather than "the next update or release").

    It's a very difficult class to understand, and I simply can't imagine trying to relearn it after spending thousands of real-world hours studying tooltips, memorizing charts, and practicing in-game. Come to think of it, it sounds a lot like school.......
    Roll one and see how you get on, the changes coming up will not make any difference at all while you are levelling up,

    What is changing is that our primary stat is being changed from Might to Agility. This means that where before we got our Physical Mastery from Might we will now get it from Agility. Until the update 11 comes out we will get it from both (yay!) It isn't a huge deal, it is a little frustrating but hey we can't do anything about it now!

    The low down is that once update 11 goes live (and I am sorry but I have literally no idea when this will be, a little while I would imagine we are having a 'grace' period at the moment) Might will only contribute to Parry Rating, Block Rating and Physical Mitigation. Therefore anyone wanting to make a DPS build will need to switch over entirely to Agility.

    They have switched our main Avoidance to be Evade rather than Block therefore, and a class trait was changed to grant health back for each sucessful Partial or full Evade instead of Block.

    There was also a hint at a further class changes, this will be happening across all classes I would imagine, so my advice is just to go for it and see how you like it, lets be honest...it's the best class out there

  3. #3
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    Even with the stat changes and the big revamps all the classes had around RoI, the basics of the warden don't seem to have ever changed. You won't learn gambits and then with a revamp have to learn an entirely new method of playing (though you may expect some of those gambits to change what they do exactly).

  4. #4
    It was my understanding wardens could not contribute sustained dps comparable to that of hunter, runekeeper or champion (or even warspeeh minstrel, for that matter) at endgame....is this changing?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    It was my understanding wardens could not contribute sustained dps comparable to that of hunter, runekeeper or champion (or even warspeeh minstrel, for that matter) at endgame....is this changing?
    I really hope that this is going to change.. I have big hopes for the coming revamp.. Currently I decided to roll a champ instead of my warden, because everybody I talked to about the endgame said that NO PuG (whats the meaning of PuG anyway? Don't know the term from other games ^^) or raid-group will take a dps-specced warden with them, if they have champs, hunters or rk's available... I absolutely love this class, so I'm kind of frustrated right know :-/

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Maigilion View Post
    I really hope that this is going to change.. I have big hopes for the coming revamp.. Currently I decided to roll a champ instead of my warden, because everybody I talked to about the endgame said that NO PuG (whats the meaning of PuG anyway? Don't know the term from other games ^^) or raid-group will take a dps-specced warden with them, if they have champs, hunters or rk's available... I absolutely love this class, so I'm kind of frustrated right know :-/
    So....no, it's not changing?

    I guess I just don't understand. Why do this? Why separate wardens into tank role (might) and dps role (agility) if the dps role isn't even viable? Seems like a LOT of work that could be spent fixing quests that have been bugged since launch. I'm sure I still don't totally understand the mechanics, surely I don't.

    Well if I'm going to attempt to level yet ANOTHER warden (I've never been successful, the highest I've ever gotten was 39, until my brain finally exploded trying to memorize gambits, and that was BEFORE stance-dancing was ever even conceived...) I need to figure out whether I should be stacking agility or might for leveling. I know, I know....I FREAKING KNOW....they both count right now. But I just don't know which is going to "depend on my playstyle"....whatever the hell that means.

    And then there's fate, which apparently has become more important than ever.

    Playing a warden had better be the greatest experience of my freaking life.....so far it feels like I'm back in school...studying charts, memorizing gambits, and drilling myself during play...

    And FYI, I didn't like school that much.... :P

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Maigilion View Post
    I really hope that this is going to change.. I have big hopes for the coming revamp.. Currently I decided to roll a champ instead of my warden, because everybody I talked to about the endgame said that NO PuG (whats the meaning of PuG anyway? Don't know the term from other games ^^) or raid-group will take a dps-specced warden with them, if they have champs, hunters or rk's available... I absolutely love this class, so I'm kind of frustrated right know :-/
    I don't know who told you that Wardens aren't accepted in DPS roles, but I regularly join raids as a DPS if the tank roles are already filled and I can do quite respectable DPS in both ranged and melee. The trick with Wardens is figuring out solid gambit rotations and using the right gear combinations, traits, and LIs. I recommend a completely separate set of gear for tanking and DPS (including LIs).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaladin_Stormblessed View Post
    I don't know who told you that Wardens aren't accepted in DPS roles, but I regularly join raids as a DPS if the tank roles are already filled and I can do quite respectable DPS in both ranged and melee. The trick with Wardens is figuring out solid gambit rotations and using the right gear combinations, traits, and LIs. I recommend a completely separate set of gear for tanking and DPS (including LIs).
    Probably the same person that told me...I.E. EVERYONE for the past 3+ years.

    So....now the answer is yes, rather than no? If so, that's fine, heck, that's great....but can I get some sort of confirmation? I'm not getting very far searching through these forums or Google about anything to do with warden DPS that's actually relevant.

    I swear, LOTRO is the worst game I know of for getting 50 different answers to a yes or no question (exaggeration, but only slightly).

    Anyway, I've leveled my new warden up to level 15 tonight with absolutely no problems by just randomly pushing buttons (another exaggeration, but I certainly don't always pull off the gambit I meant to)....encouraging for me, but clearly discouraging for everyone else that will have to deal with me not knowing &&& I'm doing sooner rather than later :/

  9. #9
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    Three quick thoughts:

    1. If you want to try out a warden go ahead. Yes, it will feature massive changes sometime later this year, but that is true for all classes, not just the ward. The learning curve won't really kick in until you start getting strong tanking skills at lvl60 ( with Exultation of Battle), and by then the mess of global class changes should be out.

    2. That said, the warden class does seem to be a class that requires frequent relearning. I'm not sure Turbine has a clear sense of the class and they are always tinkering with it. It seems to experience wild fluctuations between being broken and OP (it is currently in a rare balanced state for tough cap content). That is one reason I have both a ward and guard

    3. I fear for the massive class changes planned for later this year. Not because they are not necessarily a good idea, but because Turbine has not demonstrated recently the capacity for implementing smoothly lesser changes like the relatively minor changes to the fate stat. While all classes face this danger, wardens are more delicately balanced than others so are more at risk.
    Last edited by Morat; Apr 05 2013 at 12:48 AM.

  10. #10
    Im thinking the coming changes will veer towards simplicity rather than complexity. Turbine is looking to attract a larger casual base, and that means making all the classes easier and more accessible. What that means for the Warden Im not sure, but Im betting it will mean fewer gambit chains.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    I guess I just don't understand. Why do this? Why separate wardens into tank role (might) and dps role (agility) if the dps role isn't even viable? Seems like a LOT of work that could be spent fixing quests that have been bugged since launch. I'm sure I still don't totally understand the mechanics, surely I don't.
    Wardens have had a DPS role for a while. The agility switch isn't adding a new DPS role, it's just changing the DPS stat from might to agility.

    Tank role: primary stat was Vitality, followed by might, followed by agility. Primary stat for tanking is still vitality, but agility takes more of a precedence than might now. (So it's Vit, Agi, Might instead of Vit, Might, Agi)
    DPS role: Primary stat was might. Primary stat is now agility. Both do essentially the same thing, you're just using a different stat for the same conclusion.

    You need to be using agility for leveling. At this point in time using Might won't hurt you, but that's only because this is a sort of 'grace' period to give everyone the chance to switch to agility. Since you're on a fresh toon, just stick with agility and you won't have to worry about transitioning. You can pretty much ignore the fact that wardens ever used might as their physical/tactical mastery stat.

    [QUOTE=Maigilion;6738177](whats the meaning of PuG anyway? Don't know the term from other games ^^)/QUOTE]
    Pick-up Group
    Basically refers to grabbing random people instead of pulling from a group that you normally run with (sometimes referred to as a static group, but PUG could also be the opposite of running with kinmates or people on your friends list).
    Last edited by TinDragon; Apr 05 2013 at 02:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Ok, so thanks to this thread, this is now what I know;

    1). Wardens can tank OR DPS at endgame. This actually goes for in explaining why there are a lot more wardens online now as opposed to even last year.

    2). Agility is the new primary stat for wardens (but for now, Might still counts as well).


    I'm afraid I still have a ton of questions though. Questions that aren't covered in the 3 year-old stickies and the plethora of warden guides and websites that haven't been updated since before Mirkwood. Such as;

    1). Which traitline while leveling solo? I assume red, since it's red for every other class, but you ask a question like that in /glff, and you get at least 4 different answers (and if anyone responds with "It depends on your playstyle"...I'll slap you. I'll slap you so super hard.....my playstyle is to push buttons until the enemy is defeated, the same as everyone else. I'm asking the differences BETWEEN the different specs and which makes the most sense for solo leveling. Furthermore, which carving to use? I imagine it's going to depend on which gambits I use the most....but how do I know which gambits I'm going to use the most? See what I mean? It's always been a confusion, and I'm not sure "use spear carving if you trait red" is the correct answer.

    2). What the heck are javelin gambits????? I never knew these existed (and suspect these came about in the LAST revamp). Does that not effectively make gambits that much more difficult to learn, remember and master? Or is this how wardens are able to DPS. In other words, is the warden DPS spec ranged rather than melee? Remember, I don't know, because I've never gotten a warden high enough level to see a javelin gambit to know what it is.

    3). Like everyone else, the original attraction for me to the class was the promises of independence as one's own "small fellowship", and I learned (the hard way) that doesn't really happen at low/mid levels. I would like to know when. I understand it's difficult to pin down an exact level, and it will vary depending on gear, skill and the phase of the moon, but how about an estimate. Even an expansion.

    4). Just how important are oils, battle hymns and shield spikes while leveling? I don't particularly like stopping to solicit crafting consumables while I level, and they're only rarely available on AH (and I'll be damned if I'm using TPs on them).

    5). Are there any of you skilled and successful wardens who don't have carpal-tunnel syndrome? To be fair, this is a gripe about the sheer number of buttons to be pushed for EVERYONE that plays LOTRO. My mouse has 7 hotbuttons on it, and I've taught myself to find the ALT key during combat, so there's 14, and hopefully I can eventually learn to find Shift and Control, giving me 28, but FFS. I assume by endgame all my hotbars will be filled with buttons I'll be hitting during every fight, correct?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Ok, so thanks to this thread, this is now what I know;

    1). Wardens can tank OR DPS at endgame. This actually goes for in explaining why there are a lot more wardens online now as opposed to even last year.

    2). Agility is the new primary stat for wardens (but for now, Might still counts as well).
    Essentially yes. I do feel the need to point out that wardens are not a top-tier DPS class, but you're a lot more likely to see them DPSing in a group than a mini or guard, and for single target situations you'll beat LMs for sure, AoE maybe or maybe not. I'm not even going to talk about captain DPS because there's no such thing.

    Side note on the side note: well-geared wardens can pull stupid amounts of aggro even DPS specced since their threat down methods compared to hunters or champs sucks, and with both might and agi currently contributing to mastery their DPS is a bit higher than it'll be whenever the grace period is over. Even after the grace period though, a well-geared and knowledgeable warden could probably out-DPS a below average to average hunter or champ or whatever.

    1). Which traitline while leveling solo? I assume red, since it's red for every other class, but you ask a question like that in /glff, and you get at least 4 different answers (and if anyone responds with "It depends on your playstyle"...I'll slap you. I'll slap you so super hard.....my playstyle is to push buttons until the enemy is defeated, the same as everyone else. I'm asking the differences BETWEEN the different specs and which makes the most sense for solo leveling. Furthermore, which carving to use? I imagine it's going to depend on which gambits I use the most....but how do I know which gambits I'm going to use the most? See what I mean? It's always been a confusion, and I'm not sure "use spear carving if you trait red" is the correct answer.
    Two choices: red for DPS and lowered survivability, blue for higher survivability but lower DPS. It depends less on "playstyle" and more on "high damage vs high survivability". Personally I went red when leveling to 75 (which was the cap), and then switched to blue. I usually don't bother switching back to red for soloing (I'm kinda lazy) and I don't tend to DPS in groups.

    For your carving, it really doesn't matter too much. Whatever gambits you tend to use the most is probably the best one to get the carving for. (So probably spear.) If you really wanna get into it, run through your rotation on a dummy and then calculate how much power you used for your spear gambits and whatnot, and then use the one that matches up with your biggest power cost set. As far as mitigation: physical is probably your best bet while leveling, if any of those have mits on them. I don't remember at what point carvings get both mitigations and power costs.

    2). What the heck are javelin gambits????? I never knew these existed (and suspect these came about in the LAST revamp). Does that not effectively make gambits that much more difficult to learn, remember and master? Or is this how wardens are able to DPS. In other words, is the warden DPS spec ranged rather than melee? Remember, I don't know, because I've never gotten a warden high enough level to see a javelin gambit to know what it is.
    Javelin gambits are identical to spear gambits, but are done in Assailment. Assailment turns everything into a ranged attack, and essentially converts the "spear" builder to a "javelin" builder.
    Assailment and Recklessness are both DPS stances. Assailment is ranged and focuses a bit more on buffs, Recklessness is melee and focuses a bit more on bleeds.

    3). Like everyone else, the original attraction for me to the class was the promises of independence as one's own "small fellowship", and I learned (the hard way) that doesn't really happen at low/mid levels. I would like to know when. I understand it's difficult to pin down an exact level, and it will vary depending on gear, skill and the phase of the moon, but how about an estimate. Even an expansion.
    As soon as you get a couple of self-heals you should notice a ridiculous amount of survivability. Probably around the time you get your Sh-Sp-Sh gambit. (I suck at gambit names.)

    4). Just how important are oils, battle hymns and shield spikes while leveling? I don't particularly like stopping to solicit crafting consumables while I level, and they're only rarely available on AH (and I'll be damned if I'm using TPs on them).
    They're not. Other than the Soothing Hymns I'd say most probably aren't even important at cap. (Maybe the crit shield spikes, since they probably make the first HoT on your Sh-Sp heals more likely to crit? I dunno.)

    5). Are there any of you skilled and successful wardens who don't have carpal-tunnel syndrome? To be fair, this is a gripe about the sheer number of buttons to be pushed for EVERYONE that plays LOTRO. My mouse has 7 hotbuttons on it, and I've taught myself to find the ALT key during combat, so there's 14, and hopefully I can eventually learn to find Shift and Control, giving me 28, but FFS. I assume by endgame all my hotbars will be filled with buttons I'll be hitting during every fight, correct?
    My warden's hotbars are virtually empty. My shift is probably the longest, with all of my masteries on it. (So 9 out of the 12 spots are taken.) Since most of a warden's skills are gambits (which are just variations of your three builders and/or your nine masteries) you really don't fill up your bars that much. Off the top of my head I have 3 builders, battle memory, gambit button, 9 masteries, 5 "javelin" skills (Wages of Fear is in that section, and I can't remember if any of those other skills are also spear vs javelin), my three stances (for stance dancing), and a couple of miscellaneous skills such as Defiant Challenge. Barely over two bars, compared to most classes which easily fill 3-4 without trying.
    Last edited by TinDragon; Apr 05 2013 at 05:45 AM.

  14. #14
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    The Warden is one of the better classes for not having overcrowded hot bars really due to the Gambit system and how it works.

    I would say that once you hit level 60 you will be in a position where you are your own 'small fellowship' however it has to be noted that while the Warden can pull off stuff that no other class can it also takes far longer to get there, solo'ing end game 3 mans is very satisfying but to be honest doing it with friends is faster and more enjoyable

    Running Shield Line but with DPS gear and stats is my choice at end game, it means I only need to switch weapons, gear and stances at cap to move between Tanking and DPS modes.

    Recklessness does good damage even in Shield Line traits and offers you good self heals as well (this is also my set-up in the Moors)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morat View Post
    Three quick thoughts:

    3. I fear for the massive class changes planned for later this year. Not because they are not necessarily a good idea, but because Turbine has not demonstrated recently the capacity for implementing smoothly lesser changes like the relatively minor changes to the fate stat. While all classes face this danger, wardens are more delicately balanced than others so are more at risk.
    Concur :/

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    Furthermore, which carving to use? I imagine it's going to depend on which gambits I use the most....but how do I know which gambits I'm going to use the most? See what I mean? It's always been a confusion, and I'm not sure "use spear carving if you trait red" is the correct answer.
    Indeed a lot of players seem to think that for tanking they should use the Shield carving, and for dps the Spear carving. However you should look at the costs of gambits to make a more informed decision.

    In tank role:
    spear gambits - hardly use them, only thing I really use often in Shield Wall for the parry buff.
    shield gambits - use them a lot
    fist gambits - use them a lot

    If we compare the power costs of shield and fist gambits we see that shield gambits in general have much lower power costs than fist gambits, often by a factor of 3. Hence it doesn't make sense to use a shield carving for tanking. Instead a fist carving provides a much greater total power cost reduction. Sadly I see a lot of tanks with shield carvings, but shield gambits are already cheap!

    DPS role:
    spear gambits - use them a lot
    shield gambits - hardly ever use them, only for the occasional heal (restoration/conviction) and for shield mastery's reflect
    fist gambits - use them for draining and dots

    So that would seem like the spear carving would sound best right? Not exactly. Because when traited down the red line most you often pick up Efficient Thrust. This reduces the cost of the spear builder by 40%. This is a huge power saving because you'll be using spear builders the most of all builders in dps role. So now the fist carving again looks more attractive because of the huge costs of fist gambits in general.

  17. #17
    Well I can't emphasize enough how completely easy it is so far as a warden. I've got mine up to level 24, and I've yet to even come close to defeat, even when I completely blank out and have no idea what planet I'm on, let alone which gambit to build. This is probably true for every class now, but there is simply NO challenge in leveling up a warden to the mid 20s. Beyond that, we'll see. The first real test is usually the stupid gaunt men in Agamaur, but honestly I don't think they're going to be an issue at all on the warden. Basically, despite my intensive research, study and inquries into how to actually play the class, I'm getting by just fine by randomly pushing buttons (at worst) or by just spamming gambits to unlock class traits (at best). More than likely, just like the tens of thousands of other players who have leveled up and abandoned wardens, there will come a day when this lack of skill is unfurled in a swirl of manly ragequit...

    I sort of freaked out at level 21, when masteries magically appeared. I understand the theory behind them, but there is absolutely no way I'm going to be able to have all that &&&& on my hotbars and correctly hit the right mouse buttons along with alt/shift/control. No way. I suppose in THEORY I could have all 9 unlocked (please PLEASE tell me there aren't more than nine FFS...), if I gimp traiting and double up 2 each on fist/shield/spear traits. I see no sense in that though. So 6 at the most. That takes almost an entire row of hotkeys when using a seven-button mouse (I guess leaving one slot open for battle ready?).

    It seems I prefer leveling with spear traits but in Determination. I actually suppose I should spend more time in Recklessness to figure out what all these new gambits do. I have the chart, but honestly it takes longer to interpret the symbols and cross reference with the key than it does to just look up individual skills online /shrug.

    The big issue now is that I'm simply leveling too fast. Never thought I'd say that. I rolled this warden yesterday FFS, and I'm already level 24?? Well, if warden is the hardest class to play well, I would have to respond that it's also the easiest class to play mediocre or less lol.

  18. #18
    Warden is easy mode. I didn't find much difficulty with it myself. As for those masteries, I never used those either. Just remember which combos are your heals and you can pretty much cruise control with this class. The DPS is like watching grass grow though, which is why I don't play it or Guard much. The most challenging class for me was champ because of having almost no defense, no interrupt until 30, and forget about healing. Haven't tried my warden since the stat change but i'm sure it's not much different, other than having to find new gear.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Maigilion View Post
    I really hope that this is going to change.. I have big hopes for the coming revamp.. Currently I decided to roll a champ instead of my warden, because everybody I talked to about the endgame said that NO PuG (whats the meaning of PuG anyway? Don't know the term from other games ^^) .... /
    PUG - pick-up group

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jestina View Post
    Warden is easy mode. I didn't find much difficulty with it myself. As for those masteries, I never used those either. Just remember which combos are your heals and you can pretty much cruise control with this class. The DPS is like watching grass grow though, which is why I don't play it or Guard much. The most challenging class for me was champ because of having almost no defense, no interrupt until 30, and forget about healing. Haven't tried my warden since the stat change but i'm sure it's not much different, other than having to find new gear.
    Seems u doesnt played warden a lot, at least for me.
    Not using masterkes can work till a moment, but when u have 4 & 5 long gambits is simply wil hurt your gamply brutally (ofc in solo u will not notice anything), and not even in current nerfed to ground scaled 6 man instances... but if u try endgame content like battle of erebor, or just Dungeons of dol Guldur T2, then u and most importantly your fellows will feel what they missed.

    And warden dps. From my point of view no character can called dps till he not get his 1st dps oriented gear (jewelery + armour set from raid + legend weapons) - this is true to my hunter alt... the damage he deaks s not even the half aa same lvl hunter who got too gear in previous expansion. Same for warden also true, also must add that most of our gear focused on tanking so harder to pick up a good one

  21. #21
    3-1-2, 2-1-3, 2-2, 2-1, 2-1-2, 1-2-3-, 1-3, 2-1, 2-1-2 (1-2 if I see induction).

    That's my "rotation" at level 27 when I [I]pretend[I] that I'm doing a tough fight. That's a leech, 2 shield buffs, 2 heals, some DPS (one which has a heal in Recklesness), repeat heals. I'm not even bothering with AOE DOTs because the leech is just too good. I almost WANT to kill slowly so I'll stay at full health. Weird...

    The above is entirely solo, of course. I wouldn't know which end of my weapon to hold if I was trying to tank.............

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm8818 View Post
    1). Which traitline while leveling solo? I assume red, since it's red for every other class, but you ask a question like that in /glff, and you get at least 4 different answers (and if anyone responds with "It depends on your playstyle"...I'll slap you. I'll slap you so super hard.....my playstyle is to push buttons until the enemy is defeated, the same as everyone else. I'm asking the differences BETWEEN the different specs and which makes the most sense for solo leveling. Furthermore, which carving to use? I imagine it's going to depend on which gambits I use the most....but how do I know which gambits I'm going to use the most? See what I mean? It's always been a confusion, and I'm not sure "use spear carving if you trait red" is the correct answer.
    5 red traits ASAP to unlock all masteries and start using them. Javelin gambits have minimum range, so definitely not yellow. Blue is about survival, so it doesn`t really work well while soloing. Also, damaging gambits are either spear (immediate damage) or fist (bleeds). But you get a trait that drastically reduces power-cost of spear gambits early on, so fist might be your best bet.

    What the heck are javelin gambits????? I never knew these existed (and suspect these came about in the LAST revamp). Does that not effectively make gambits that much more difficult to learn, remember and master? Or is this how wardens are able to DPS. In other words, is the warden DPS spec ranged rather than melee? Remember, I don't know, because I've never gotten a warden high enough level to see a javelin gambit to know what it is.
    I think it`s lvl 30 when you get your ranged stance. In this stance many gambits (mostly spear line) turn into javelin versions. Now you can be ranged DPS in groups if you want. Or melee. Or both.

    3).
    Like everyone else, the original attraction for me to the class was the promises of independence as one's own "small fellowship", and I learned (the hard way) that doesn't really happen at low/mid levels.
    It starts at lvl 15. There is a great easy gambit called Offensive strike (Sp+Fi). In Recklessness stance, it steals morale from your enemy and gives it to you. And it stacks.
    It doesn`t get much better before lvl 40, when you get Celebration of skill - now instead of spamming Offensive strike for surviving, you switch from Recklessness into Determination and start spamming Celebration of skill+Safeguard+Persevere while maintaining Shield mastery and slashing enemy with Wall of Steel. You also get Dance of War at 42, which helps a lot. I killed lvl 54 Elite Master using this tactics with my 54 warden yesterday, and he jumped me in the middle of a fight! Had to use some power pots, though, since I don`t yet have The Dark Before Dawn

    Just how important are oils
    Not really important.
    battle hymns
    Don`t bother.
    and shield spikes
    Your class trainer sells the ones that give Westernesse damage type to your shield - should be enough to carry you to 85.

    I assume by endgame all my hotbars will be filled with buttons I'll be hitting during every fight, correct?
    Wardens actually have less buttons to press than any other class, since many of warden skills are gambits that don`t require separate buttons. 3 builders+1 gambit button+9 masteries+1 or 2 survival buttons (Never Surrender+Defiant Challenge/Way of the Warden, whichever you like best)+1 interrupt skill+1 battle memory. You don`t really need to stance-dance much, you don`t really need a hotkey for HP pot, and your javelin skills are either pre-combat and, hhus, can be activated with mouse click (Ambush) or situational/group-oriented (Hampering Javelin, Shield Piercer, Wages of Fear).
    Last edited by Olfaran; Apr 06 2013 at 04:21 PM.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  23. #23
    I still don't really understand how to even approach masteries. I know what they are, I know what they do, I just don't know how I'm going to FIND them on my hotbars during combat. Like I said before, I have 7 mouse buttons to work with. 4 of them are currently occupied by builders, gambit and Battle Preparation (which I honestly have to admit I hardly use..it's just another thing to try to remember to do...). Because I have 2 spear traits, I have 3 extra builders (spear-spear, spear-shield, spear-fist). Even my limited capacity for understanding can figure out these will come in handy once I get gambits with 4 builders, but right now it's simply quicker for me to just build the gambit. Even in the rare instance when I REMEMBER to use one of these skills, it's usually against an easy opponent. In fights where using these new skills would be meaningful or helpful, I'm busy with leech, shield and heals - - I'm not even using spear gambits....go figure.

    But, as I continually emphasize, I'm having zero problems surviving and racking up the levels. I could probably do it with my eyes closed, spamming safeguard. I don't see how I'm ever going to obtain the skill to be better than a "typical" warden, though.

    I am curious to know how you guys are hotbarring your skills. Granted at level 28 I don't have all that many, but TBH moving skills around every 2 levels is the pits.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699


    So yeah, not that many things to put on your bars. You've got most of them by now. Don't forget certain things like your stances and Battle Prep can go beyond your first seven slots, since they'll be used primarily outside of combat and thus you can just click them.

  25. #25
    Ok so there's a few things to be said about wardening in solo content, or end game group content. In solo content, you can pretty much do whatever you want without even needing to know where your mastery buttons are and be fine, but once you cross the threshold, and reach level 85, and start looking to do instances as either a DPS or Tank, you will need to be extremely familiar with your masteries.

    Basically, masteries are the bread and butter skills of a warden which vastly reduce the time taken to perform a given gambit.

    Let's say you're tanking, and you want to battle prep an Exultation of Battle for initial threat. The warden that is familiar with his masteries will know to hit [FiSp][ShFi][ShFi] to build it quickly in the matter of 1 second or less.

    Once in combat, fire that off for the initial burst of aggro, then move into building another by using [FiSp][ShFi][Sh].

    Now, you've got decent ToT's rolling, time to use [FiFi] for potency, and then build an aggression. [FiSh][SpFi] fire that off, and hold on to the BM'd Aggression.

    That's just a sample of how I use masteries early on in the fight. Masteries are to be used frequently, they only have 15s cooldowns, and thus allow a constant usage of quick 4 and 5 length gambits, giving you the more potent gambits providing certain effects.

    In order to learn how to use masteries, you must first try using them, and learn unique ways to combine masteries to make each and every gambit.

    Now we've begin to scratch the surface of how to use masteries as tank, let's scratch on the DPS wardens surface.

    Say we want to build up our t4 dot to start a big dot tick at the beginning of the fight, so we Battle prep then use [FiSh][FiSh][FiSh] to get Desolation. once in range, we fire that off, then use [FiFi] for potency, then [Sp][ShSp] and double fire Onslaughts then move on to [SpSh][Fi] for a bleed.

    This is a sample of how a dps warden would use his masteries... toy around with them to figure out how you like your masteries to flow, and the way to make them work best for you.

    EDIT: As for skill usage, alot of wardens use programmable keys on either mouses, or gamepads to provide ease of builder usage, personally, I use a G700 and Razer Nostromo. Playing warden bare-bones can be done, but it is significantly more difficult IMO, it would be hard to explain how I used to do it before getting my nostromo.
    Last edited by Khallan; Apr 07 2013 at 04:48 AM.

 

 
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