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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Divine View Post
    Sure it's easy, but it's just horrible for the Tanks, do you think -25% (stacking 4x = -100%) Income Healing debuff is nothing?
    if you're not a Tank you don't care about it, play a Tank and try that annoying little debuff out. the Warriors get buffs the longer they're alive, that with the -Income Healing Debuff. isn't the easiest configuration, having 1 Cappy,1 Archer and another Archer or Cappy or 1 Warrior would be the easiest configuration
    Warriors stand still and AoE. There is no reason to get the debuff (more than once, when they spawn) or take damage from them.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarenius View Post
    Warriors stand still and AoE. There is no reason to get the debuff (more than once, when they spawn) or take damage from them.
    Frontal AoE

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarenius View Post
    There is no reason to get the debuff (more than once, when they spawn) or take damage from them.
    Interesting point. Do you think this is WAI?
    I would get some bad feelings if the whole raid stands behind these warriors (incl. tank) an noone take damage from them. Can't believe that any of developer thought thinks like: "oh jeah. Let's create a new mob with frontal AoE who never faces his aggrotarget"

  4. #79
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    Well, we start doing this and after a few trys, completed T2 of this raid.

    If it's not WAI, they will have to nerf warrior (and maybe invoc puddle too ^^).

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Divine View Post
    Sure it's easy, but it's just horrible for the Tanks, do you think -25% (stacking 4x = -100%) Income Healing debuff is nothing?
    if you're not a Tank you don't care about it, play a Tank and try that annoying little debuff out. the Warriors get buffs the longer they're alive, that with the -Income Healing Debuff. isn't the easiest configuration, having 1 Cappy,1 Archer and another Archer or Cappy or 1 Warrior would be the easiest configuration
    I don't know if you have attempted challenge or not but you'll find challenge to be a whole new world compared to T2. I'd recommend figuring out how you would want to do challenge and begin practicing by at least killing the best choice of mobs for AOE speed, position, ease of identification for old and new waves and what will happen when the new wave spawns with the ones you had left over. Your mind will be boggled, trust me

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiorin View Post
    Interesting point. Do you think this is WAI?
    I would get some bad feelings if the whole raid stands behind these warriors (incl. tank) an noone take damage from them. Can't believe that any of developer thought thinks like: "oh jeah. Let's create a new mob with frontal AoE who never faces his aggrotarget"
    But on the other hand there's been so many mobs with frontal AoE attack I'd be quite surprised if they somehow messed that mechanic up without messing up all other mobs with frontal AoE as well.

  7. #82
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    This Raid is still a mess.
    If the Warrior mechanic is working as intended I don't know but I for one assume after having flight almost down for 1 Month they should have fixed this "bug" anyways....
    If this is not WAI I can only shake my head abouth the Q&A team turbine has, again they had almost 4 weeks to fix this.

    But however. We finished T2 yesterday and I just think this is still really really buggy and luck dependent.
    Even if you have perfect tactics with CC and a carefull raid team it still depends on 50% luck. One of the things mentioned here. It seems completly random with the adds you keep alive. We found if you have 3 warriors left you need a forth add alive otherwise there is an additional spawn. On the other hand if you have 2 captains and a warrior it workls fine.
    I even think that stacking massive aoe and heal T2cm is theoretically easier then just t2.

    As for us last night:

    -We finished t2 last night. 3 out of 12 got the raid deed. Rest got nothing. After getting the seals/deed/chest there where still some adds, killed the adds and in total another 2 Wave spawned. Standing in front of the actual entrance gate Oo. In these adds where 8 Summoners in total. We had to release kill one summoner and rinse repeat because they where droping puddles in the spawn and 4 cats each... took us 30 mins to be able to loot the chest.
    (the mobs where counting towords the challenge also...)

    We'll anyway. I'm glad i was one of the few yesterday who got the deed. The rest of my raid was rather unlucky and after all of them stayed in the instance and contacted support they got nada because the GM`s said that they could not find any proof that our kill was legit Oo
    I'm glad that my guard is finished now. Only my RK healer needs flight T2 now. But I decided to wait. Can't be bothered with this bugfest.
    Last edited by Lebouwski; Apr 15 2013 at 04:39 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebouwski View Post
    Even if you have perfect tactics with CC and a carefull raid team it still depends on 50% luck.
    If you depend on 50% luck your tactics aren't perfect. You need to improve them and find the errors....




    Quote Originally Posted by Lebouwski View Post
    One of the things mentioned here. It seems completly random with the adds you keep alive. We found if you have 3 warriors left you need a forth add alive otherwise there is an additional spawn. On the other hand if you have 2 captains and a warrior it workls fine.
    You are talking about the wave with 4 captains and 3 warriors? Yes in that wave you need to keep alive atleast 4 from that wave or you will have a second wave spawn.

  9. #84
    Ugh flights challenge is so stupid. I have no idea how the fight actually works. I've tested stuff and nothing is ever consistent.

    For T2...once you kill 100 mobs nothing else spawns the rest of the fight. It was easy to kill them all within 2 minutes or so. Another time...the red bar wasn't even full and stuff stopped spawning so challenge was technically impossible because we didn't get enough mobs and sat outta combat for 5 minutes.

    Then I've done the keep adds live and kill 1 by 1 until a new wave spawn. Keep the remaining adds alive from first wave and keep 4 adds alive from next wave. Then when we kill the very first wave around 2 minutes it spawns way more waves...and the 2 minute wave is actually delayed and no longer 2 minutes. I'm at a total lost on how to do stupid challenge. T2 regular mode seems just fine. The actual mechanics to manage t2c is beyond me.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Burio View Post



    You are talking about the wave with 4 captains and 3 warriors? Yes in that wave you need to keep alive atleast 4 from that wave or you will have a second wave spawn.
    Incorrect, you can have 1 captain and 2 warriors.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burio View Post
    If you depend on 50% luck your tactics aren't perfect. You need to improve them and find the errors....

    You are talking about the wave with 4 captains and 3 warriors? Yes in that wave you need to keep alive atleast 4 from that wave or you will have a second wave spawn.
    Maybe worded it wrong. Our tactics are good and the fight runs smoothly. With 50% luck I ment that even with a succelfull run you need to be lucky 50% of the time because either half the raid do not receive the deed or it bugs to death and you still have adds spawns, as it both happened to us.

    As for the Captain/Warrior wave we found exactly as the poster above. If you keep the warriors allive you get a spawn, if you keep 2warrior 1 captain you wont, the reason for this ? I dunno

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebouwski View Post
    Maybe worded it wrong. Our tactics are good and the fight runs smoothly. With 50% luck I ment that even with a succelfull run you need to be lucky 50% of the time because either half the raid do not receive the deed or it bugs to death and you still have adds spawns, as it both happened to us.
    Only had 2 person out of many that not get that dead. But that persons retreated at the moment the quest finish. I think that causes the problem. All people alive or waiting with the release get the deed finished.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    Ugh flights challenge is so stupid. I have no idea how the fight actually works. I've tested stuff and nothing is ever consistent.

    For T2...once you kill 100 mobs nothing else spawns the rest of the fight. It was easy to kill them all within 2 minutes or so. Another time...the red bar wasn't even full and stuff stopped spawning so challenge was technically impossible because we didn't get enough mobs and sat outta combat for 5 minutes.

    Then I've done the keep adds live and kill 1 by 1 until a new wave spawn. Keep the remaining adds alive from first wave and keep 4 adds alive from next wave. Then when we kill the very first wave around 2 minutes it spawns way more waves...and the 2 minute wave is actually delayed and no longer 2 minutes. I'm at a total lost on how to do stupid challenge. T2 regular mode seems just fine. The actual mechanics to manage t2c is beyond me.
    How did you manage to kill 100 Mobs in under 2 minutes while standing in red puddles? Somehow I can't believe this. So what happened after the 100 Mobs were dead and the 10 minute mark was passed?

  14. #89
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    I'm guessing he was playing at level 20 just to test the mechanics.

    You know how in F&F T2 if you killed two grims at exactly the same time (i.e. from the same hit of an AoE attack) it would only lower a giant's rage by 1? Maybe it's working the same way - if you kill multiple mobs at exactly the same time, it only counts one of them toward the red bar filling.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    I'm guessing he was playing at level 20 just to test the mechanics.

    You know how in F&F T2 if you killed two grims at exactly the same time (i.e. from the same hit of an AoE attack) it would only lower a giant's rage by 1? Maybe it's working the same way - if you kill multiple mobs at exactly the same time, it only counts one of them toward the red bar filling.
    But there is no way to accomplish Challenge Mode when playing this raid below the level cap, so I'd say killing 100 mobs and not getting credit for a CM kill is working as intended. How can he possibly make any statement about the challenge being stupid when he didn't actually play the Challenge Mode?

  16. #91
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    You get credit for challenge when the red bar fills up. The red bar (number of mobs killed) is always visible. So regardless of whether or not the actual challenge quest is bestowed (it won't be at level 20) you can still test lots of stuff and see how it would affect challenge just by looking at the red bar. So, he can make claims about the challenge being stupid when he kills literally every mob available then stands around waiting for the green timer bar to fill up without the red bar ever filling due to mob deaths.

  17. #92
    This was level 20. The red bar for mob kill count and the green bar for timer is always visible on T2 whether you have the challenge quest or not. Also, 100 mobs in 10 minutes = 1 mob every 6 seconds. It's quite possible that if the dead mobs are still present from a previous attempt (but can't touch them) restarting the fight could be causing dumb stuff to happen as well. Maybe that is why we didn't get 100 mobs that one time.

    0s rallying cry + aoe hunter makes it incredibly quick to kill 100 mobs. Amazingly enough I wasn't experiencing any lag.

    When 100 mobs were killed...the previous mobs already out stayed out but nothing else continued to spawn. Once everything is dead you just sit there and wait for the 10 minute timer to complete. Then the T2 chest spawned (and presumably the T2c chest if it were level 85).

    Maybe I'll go in there with more tanks to separate the mobs from different waves better. I'm not even going bother with level 85 t2c if I can't even control the situation at level 20..

  18. #93
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    I bet that it's not just killing 100 mobs, but rather that the mobs need to be killed evenly across waves. Note the text from the developer diary, particularly the point about a 75s zerg.

    "Your goal for challenge is to kill at least 100 enemies, 10 waves worth, before the time expires. Well over 80 enemies can spawn, so you're not closing the spout and making it any easier. This introduces a very strong DPS element to the fight, but the goal is still the timer. You can't beat challenge with a 75 second burst of DPS – it has to be a balanced sustainable rhythm of DPS mixed in with communication, coordination, target selection and priority, etc.


    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c214000000051de2/signature.png]Naethromraw[/charsig]

  19. #94
    thanks for that post from the dev diary. Even at level 20 I killed stuff slow at times and waited etc. Maybe I'll try waiting even longer. Still seems fishy but maybe someone has made progress doing it at 85, idk.

    k so I did figure some stuff out which should give a workable t2c strat. Just need to give it a whirl tonight.

    Only thing I will say now is this...if any 'dead mobs' are still up after you wipe. Reform the instance. It definitely messes up how the raid works.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; Apr 16 2013 at 09:40 PM.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by anteku View Post
    I bet that it's not just killing 100 mobs, but rather that the mobs need to be killed evenly across waves. Note the text from the developer diary, particularly the point about a 75s zerg.

    "Your goal for challenge is to kill at least 100 enemies, 10 waves worth, before the time expires. Well over 80 enemies can spawn, so you're not closing the spout and making it any easier. This introduces a very strong DPS element to the fight, but the goal is still the timer. You can't beat challenge with a 75 second burst of DPS – it has to be a balanced sustainable rhythm of DPS mixed in with communication, coordination, target selection and priority, etc.


    That means you have to go slow because you will get overwhelmed that's all.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Divine View Post

    And for any techniques on how to do this, PLEASE DO NOT POST THEM. My Kin and I like to figure things out ourselves so please respect that & Thank You.
    Not to sound rude, but if you want to figure this stuff out on your own, don't read these forums. It's kind of assumed that most of the posts in the Instance, Raids, and Skirmishes section will provide some amount of spoilers about the mechanics - I don't think you should expect everyone to label their posts as such. Reader be warned.

  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by tongra View Post
    Not to sound rude, but if you want to figure this stuff out on your own, don't read these forums. It's kind of assumed that most of the posts in the Instance, Raids, and Skirmishes section will provide some amount of spoilers about the mechanics - I don't think you should expect everyone to label their posts as such. Reader be warned.
    That is a very old quote and since then I've changed my mind about the whole situation of this Thread I started, if you'd read previous post before posting that you would have seen it.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Divine View Post
    That is a very old quote and since then I've changed my mind about the whole situation of this Thread I started, if you'd read previous post before posting that you would have seen it.
    My bad, thought I was on the last page when I posted that reply. Probably my fault, but some part of me will still blame the beta forum.

  24. #99
    Anyone run into the problem where the normal 2/4/6/8 min wave doesn't spawn on time? I've had waves spawning at 3:30 etc and no it wasn't because we killed something. We specifically spawned a wave at 1min by killing 1 of the 3 we left alive from previous wave. There was no auto-wave at 2min, that wave came at 3:30.

    Any clue?

  25. #100
    I really don't think it's my place to divulge exactly how everything works, since we've spent quite a good amount of time working on this as a kin and the world first claim is still apparently up for grabs. However, I can tell you that the mechanics of the instance (other than the warriors I guess) are all able to be worked out and understood to a pretty good degree of confidence. The way waves spawn is not at all obvious if all you've worked on is t2 regular, and will require some time spent doing things in different ways to figure it out. But it does work in a regular and predictable way.

    If Yelk cares to tell more, I'm sure he will. This post is just to offer some peace of mind that the wave spawn mechanic does seem to be working in a way that can be understood. I would definitely encourage more people to be working on t2c, as I think this is a genuinely difficult fight and getting it down on challenge with the way it is implemented currently would be worth a lot of internet dollars.

 

 
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