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  1. #1

    Do we really need such universal gambit?

    Exaltation of Battle - this gambit is primarily morale leech, yet it also does most powerful aggroing effect both for AoE and single-target purposes... it heals you, it does damage, it does most aggro... does warden really need such gambit? It generates more aggro to 10 targets than any other single-target threat gambits... SoD or SoV should generate more aggro to single target than EoB IMO

  2. #2
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    Yes we do.
    It (along with other gambits) gives the warden the ability to tank, which is still their primary purpose. Wardens don't have as much armour as other tanking classes, so the extra lifetap heals will help them to be on-par with them.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Exaltation of Battle - this gambit is primarily morale leech, yet it also does most powerful aggroing effect both for AoE and single-target purposes... it heals you, it does damage, it does most aggro... does warden really need such gambit? It generates more aggro to 10 targets than any other single-target threat gambits... SoD or SoV should generate more aggro to single target than EoB IMO
    Clarify a couple of things for you:

    1. EoB only generates aggro in Determination. It does heal you.. ONCE, not multiple pulese, in Recklessness.
    2. If you are using ANY kind of CC, EoB breaks the CC so not a good idea if you are doing single target, DPS or tanking.

    And, frankly, I like that it tiers up and caps DPS from Fierce Resolve and Resolution.

    Wait until the class revamp. Who knows, at one time in Moria, EoB aggro was laughable, it may be again.

  4. #4
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    it felt broken in RoI when you could potentiolly do the whole of foundry/RoF just spamming that one skill, but the moral-taps no longer stack so it's lost some of it's potency.

    personnaly it does feel a little out of place. for example 312 and 3123 don't do aoe aggro then 31232 has some of the highest? weird. but if you removed it, they've have to give us aoe aggro somewhere else... I can't name an aoe gambit line that would do a better job. if removed would cause horrible issues with aggro.

    the life-tap aspect, maybe a little OP. but would be a silly nurf if they removed it from tanking stance. it'd be the aoe aggro line then with 2 that don't fit in? even weirder.

    turbine would either need to add aggro to all of the line if they removed heal while in tank stance. or create a whole new line for aoe aggro like EoB. I somehow doubt they'll take out this from warden in class revamp. I don't think warden tank will get touched on much tbh

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    1. EoB only generates aggro in Determination. It does heal you.. ONCE, not multiple pulese, in Recklessness.
    O yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    2. If you are using ANY kind of CC, EoB breaks the CC so not a good idea if you are doing single target, DPS or tanking.
    I'd say that makes it less for AoE tanking, not ST.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I'd say that makes it less for AoE tanking, not ST.
    The single target gambits have less threat, and are along the lines of 3232 or 3131 respectively which are comparatively less flexible and more slow to build than EoB (unless you want to clip a mastery/double).

    I may use a battle-prepped SoV to drag a target to a safespot because it does deal a large chunk of upfront aggro but after that it'll be followed by at least 2x EoB and into a HoT/avoidance/threat-leech rotation.


    Why do Wardens need such a strong threatgen skill? It allows Wardens a grace period of lockdown where they can get HoT's rolling, avoidances up and segue gracefully into threat leeches because the fellowship/raid has been merrily beating on the mobs.
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  7. #7
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    No, no we shouldn't. The class wasn't designed with a 1-gambit-does-it-all ideology in mind, and it won't make the most out of it's possible mechanic efficiency if it continues that way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    No, no we shouldn't. The class wasn't designed with a 1-gambit-does-it-all ideology in mind, and it won't make the most out of it's possible mechanic efficiency if it continues that way.
    I bet it's going to get even worse with U11. The devs said they wanted to reduce the number of skills players have, if they want to do this with the Warden's gambit system I predict multiple gambits being merged into one.

    Because we still need most of the effects we have now, you can't just delete unless gambits because there aren't a lot of useless gambits in the first place. Almost every gambit is used in one role or another.

  9. #9
    Yeah I think threat of EoB should nerfed to the level of current SoV or SoD, whilst SoD and SoV should do as much aggro single target as current EoB. And for some more AoE aggro, Fierce Resolve should also do extra threat, lets say that EoB + Fierce Resolve would together be as strong aggro-wise as EoB now.. the fact that theres 1 gambit which does strongest aggro to 10 targets than any other gambit to 1 target just doesnt feel right. Im not saying wardens aggro should be nerfed, just make it more logical.)

  10. #10
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    So your problem is, that EoB is doing to much aggro? Omg your problems on my head...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilda View Post
    So your problem is, that EoB is doing to much aggro? Omg your problems on my head...
    I guess you liked those times where you actually did one gambit over and over... I would like to actively use more gambits in specific situations, depending what do I tank, whats wrong about that?

  12. #12
    with the exception of the new scaled faceroll instances if you spam EOB to tank you will fail quickly or your healer will hate you. After the initial few EOB's to get aggro I typically use it only once every 30 seconds or so. There is way too many defense boosting gambits in order to get full avoidance to spam EOB.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    I guess you liked those times where you actually did one gambit over and over... I would like to actively use more gambits in specific situations, depending what do I tank, whats wrong about that?
    Uhm, you know, we have defensive gambits? and healing gambits? and agro-stealing gambits? and you can switch stance and boost dmg of your fellows by reckless-conviction? and so on... if you spam only EoB it is your problem...

    I say EoB is good for initial quick aggro, but after RKs are warmed up (), hunters in positions, and champs on (whatever) EoB is not enough to keep tanked mob on you...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    I guess you liked those times where you actually did one gambit over and over... I would like to actively use more gambits in specific situations, depending what do I tank, whats wrong about that?
    Never at any point in my over 4 years of wardening have I ever only spammed one gambit in combat. Sure, there are some that I use more than others, but there's also strike skills that champs use more than others, ranged skills that hunters use more than others.... etc, etc, etc, the list could go on. The reason we have such vast amounts of different skills is to foster different playstyles and levels of skill.

    I've NEVER been a proponent of EoB spamming, and IMO if your dps is on top of their game, it won't work for tanking, atleast in the first burst of the fight. I've had times where it's actually been physically impossible to pop off enough EoB's to keep the dps from pulling aggro, I HAD to use other skills/gambits to maintain my aggro.

    So, EoB, how it is "universal" I can see, but the magnitude of which it is, is due largely to the amount of wardens who use only EoB to tank, or predominantly EoB. EoB actually is not a huge part of my rotation.

    Another thing that could be noticed too, is that with 10 targets, resolution can produce a MASSIVE amount of aggro due to its heal magnitude.

  15. #15
    EoB is really only a good starting rotation to get your other gambits going. You need some initial agro being generated while the hunters start crit rain-of-thorning all your targets. After that EoB won't hold them, you have to cycle other threat builders. You have to build 6 defensive gambits plus can optionally build 5 healing gambits. After that throw in a BM Agression to steal all the threat the fellowship has been building while you were busy surviving. They already nerfed EoB once so that it wouldn't be a WIN button.

  16. #16
    Honestly I Wouldn't call it a nerf to EoB. Because it returned the life-tap effects to the way they worked upon release of the class. IMO the way life-taps were working Post U6(?) was a huge deviation from what the skill was originally meant to do. In moria it acted the same as it does now, except the threat portion of the gambit has been increased.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilda View Post
    Uhm, you know, we have defensive gambits? and healing gambits? and agro-stealing gambits? and you can switch stance and boost dmg of your fellows by reckless-conviction? and so on... if you spam only EoB it is your problem...

    I say EoB is good for initial quick aggro, but after RKs are warmed up (), hunters in positions, and champs on (whatever) EoB is not enough to keep tanked mob on you...
    I wouldnt agree with 2nd part...
    Atm after my test eob generates most of threat!
    ~20k (while call to battle is around 10k overall) so it is not lot stronger since 75 times, but still the strongest aggro (and i use that exclusively for aggro - if i can do, i mean no cc-ed mob... etc.)**

    **these numbers are not exactly same in every situation or against any dps character and i did onyl 1 test! so it needs more testing.. (if anyone wants to help pm me) if i did more i will post on forum ;O)

    And even if we have 1 best aggro skill and lot situational (like call to battle & spear of virtue) most of ur work while tanking not comes out from holding aggro (those are teh guardians) we build defense buffs in most of time... or at least intended to do that (if not do that healers will have some damn hard work compared to any other tank

  18. #18
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    We have a considerable increase in our defensive utility than what our class was designed with. There's more to it than our actual tanking management.

    Imo we need to get to a place that not so much of our defence is actively based (Either on cooldowns or defensive gambits) but passive and actively situational so it's more than just cookie cutter when it comes to threat management.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Leri927 View Post
    I wouldnt agree with 2nd part...
    Atm after my test eob generates most of threat!
    ~20k (while call to battle is around 10k overall) so it is not lot stronger since 75 times, but still the strongest aggro (and i use that exclusively for aggro - if i can do, i mean no cc-ed mob... etc.)**
    I assume the point was not to show that EoB generates less threat than another gambit but that threat generating gamibts are not enough in such situations and you have to use a threat leeching gambit to keep aggro.

  20. #20
    we need a huge threat skill for aoe pulls. We need a huge threat skill for bosses. We need ways to recover our moral and kick up bpe/defense. And we need all of this. If what ever flavor of the month agro skills we have are not big enough to not only pull threat but hold it for a resonable amount of time for us to get some defense and heals going than we can not tank because we will not survive.

    Change eob to make less threat ok fine. But what ever they make that creates uber threat to take its place will do just that. Take its place. Good wardens and bad wardens will open with the new uber aoe threat skill and fire it off a couple times for the initial pull. Bad wardens will continue to spam the fotmeob replacement skill and good wardens will start to build def and survivability.

    We have to have over the top threat skills or we can do nothing but build threat.
    It would be nice if we had a solid single target threat skill that could build as much threat as eob for a change of pace but it would be just that... some different gambit for the sake of having a different gambit.

    The only complaint i can see from the op is there is no comparable single target threat skill. And that is valid. The healing from eob on a boss fight where heals mater and you get hit hard...is so small it is irrelavant. The healing is only op on trash mobs... but they are trash mobs.

 

 

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