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  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I don't understand why you think it "wastes precious shelf space" to have it. Just throw it on a buff emblem and keep it in reserve. You don't have to give up anything to have it. But anyways... we've already gone through this.
    The meaning there is that we only have 3 shelves. One with a hammer, one with a screwdriver, and one with a rock. I know you don't think it's a rock but that's what the metaphor is trying to show. I would rather take that rock off the shelf and replace it with pliers.
    Last edited by Armitas; Apr 12 2013 at 10:45 AM.
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  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    The meaning there is that we only have 3 shelves. One with a hammer, one with a screwdriver, and one with a rock. I know you don't think it's a rock but that's what the metaphor is trying to show. I would rather take that rock off the shelf and replace it with pliers.
    But there is nothing to replace it with. Focus is the only tactical buff we have that gives ICPR. What are you going to replace this "rock" with if power becomes a problem?

  3. #128
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    Even if I was pegged at zero power with zero ICPR, I would get far, far more benefit out of the crit buff for my auto-attacks alone than the ONE extra skill per minute focus would give me.

    Edit: the only times I have ever seen a captain hand out focus buffs in a group for anything other than trolling where when those captains were utterly terrible.
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  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post

    Theres always gonna be that guy asking for a rock but the community as a whole would be better served by carrying pliers instead.
    I'll never understand why you think giving someone who is running out of power a buff that gives them 400 ICPR somehow harms the "community". That is a kind of logic that is just so alien to me I don't think I'll ever understand it.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    Even if I was pegged at zero power with zero ICPR, I would get far, far more benefit out of the crit buff for my auto-attacks alone than the ONE extra skill per minute focus would give me.
    lol if you say so Gylve. I totally disagree, but you are entitled to that opinion. I'll never understand why so many of you think 1800 Critical Rating is so much better than 400 ICPR. I just don't understand it. Baffling as hell to me - especially if someone is in need of more ICPR to keep their power up.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    But there is nothing to replace it with. Focus is the only tactical buff we have that gives ICPR. What are you going to replace this "rock" with if power becomes a problem?
    Potions, NFW, SB, victory, or a loremaster. There are a lot of other ways. The problem is that it shouldn't be a problem these days.

    It would be up to Rockx but we could make suggestions on a replacement.
    We had a thread a few months back. I think maley had a few good suggestions, I only remember my own, which was some sort of induction reduction buff or a cd reduction buff. What ever it is it needs to be something people want.
    Last edited by Armitas; Apr 12 2013 at 10:53 AM.
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  7. #132
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    I am entitled to my opinion because it is 100% correct. If you don't understand how big a boost nearly 2000 crit is for a class with *at least* a 50% critical multiplier for *all attacks* then you are demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of the game's mechanics.
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  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    I am entitled to my opinion because it is 100% correct. If you don't understand how big a boost nearly 2000 crit is for a class with *at least* a 50% critical multiplier for *all attacks* then you are demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of the game's mechanics.
    And I would argue that someone who espouses a logic that implies we should all just dump our ICPR for more critical rating so we can hit harder with our auto attacks is demonstrating a "fundamental lack of understand of the game's mechanics" as well

    Let's just agree to disagree. There is no need to start trying to insult me just because we have a difference in opinion ^^

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I'll never understand why you think giving someone who is running out of power a buff that gives them 400 ICPR somehow harms the "community". That is a kind of logic that is just so alien to me I don't think I'll ever understand it.
    I removed that because it sounded a little creepy. but the idea is that no one in town has any pliers because 1 person is still using rocks.
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    Potions, NFW, SB, victory, or a loremaster. There are a lot of other ways. The problem is that it shouldn't be a problem these days.

    It would be up to Rockx but we could make suggestions on a replacement.
    We had a thread a few months back. I think maley had a few good suggestions, I only remember my own, which was some sort of induction reduction buff or a cd reduction buff. What ever it is it needs to be something people want.
    None of those things you named are tactical buffs. Of course there are other ways to restore power, but out of the tactical buffs, Focus is our buff for that. That was my point. I was never saying Focus is the only thing in the game that can restore power...

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    And I would argue that someone who espouses a logic that implies we should all just dump our ICPR for more critical rating so we can hit harder with our auto attacks is demonstrating a "fundamental lack of understand of the game's mechanics" as well

    Let's just agree to disagree. There is no need to start trying to insult me just because we have a difference in opinion ^^
    Yes. That is exactly what I'm espousing.

    If you have this same level of reading comprehension when it comes to reading tooltips, I can understand why you're not able to keep your fellowship's power up without resorting to this useless buff.
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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    I removed that because it sounded a little creepy. but the idea is that no one in town has any pliers because 1 person is still using rocks.
    I don't know Armitas. It's not a rock, it's just a handy little buff that gives 400 ICPR, which is a respectable amount and our best power-related tactical buff. I'm beginning to believe you really do think ICPR is the evil incarnate, especially now since you think it's "creepy" too. I thought you were being sarcastic earlier, but I am starting to re-evaluate

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    Yes. That is exactly what I'm espousing.

    If you have this same level of reading comprehension when it comes to reading tooltips, I can understand why you're not able to keep your fellowship's power up without resorting to this useless buff.
    Gylve, welcome to my ignore list also. If there is anyone else on this thread who wants to hurl insults about my intelligence or anything else of a personal nature because I think the Tactics: Focus buff is good please let me know now so I can add you also. Save me the trouble of having to read your insults in the future ^^

  14. #139
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    I wonder if he sits in the Prancing Pony putting Focus on himself all day because his entire server is also on his ignore list.
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  15. #140
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    Put a focus buff on a yellow-traited LM. Debuffs don`t benefit from +crit anyway, and by using power-sharing skills, LM can easily multiply this extra power several times.
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  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I don't know Armitas. It's not a rock, it's just a handy little buff that gives 400 ICPR, which is a respectable amount and our best power-related tactical buff. I'm beginning to believe you really do think ICPR is the evil incarnate, especially now since you think it's "creepy" too. I thought you were being sarcastic earlier, but I am starting to re-evaluate
    I wasnt being sarcastic just joking earlier. It is current events outiside the game that made my comment creepy. The forums would not allow me to go into it.
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    Put a focus buff on a yellow-traited LM. Debuffs don`t benefit from +crit anyway, and by using power-sharing skills, LM can easily multiply this extra power several times.
    Good point Olfaran, and I should have thought to mention this because I help my Loremaster friend out with the Focus buff on long fights for that very reason. So thank you for bringing this up.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    I wasnt being sarcastic just joking earlier. It is current events outiside the game that made my comment creepy. The forums would not allow me to go into it.
    That's what I meant when I said I thought you being sarcastic. Just meant I thought you were joking, so that's how I took it. I was just trying to make a joke back with the "creepy" reference, but obviously it wasn't very funny so nvm ^^

  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I'm sure that's true Cloudie-wan, but in the situation I described the extra 350 ICPR from Focus helped the ministrels maintain their power more effectively than an extra 1800 critical rating did. It probably depends on how the mini gears and traits, ect. I always give ministrels critical rating first, but if I notice them running dry on power - I then give them Focus.
    In that situation was the mini to busy to use his power return skills?
    Was the mini just not using them?
    Did you use song brother in that situation?
    Or Nfw?

    If i get low on power and suddenly the captain puts focus on me then I am not going to be very happy as I have to mash more buttons then I already do to reach the same healing output.
    And if i already did not have the time to use my coda properly for power return (i.e. pot on cd, CoC on cd, a LOT of healing needed group wise for an extended period of time) then making me heal less on average would be counter productive.

    With song brother i think I never got low on power even if i did not care to look at it. I never analyzed the power return on RC/NfW or if V banner was used.

    No doubt that focus helps to get more power. I am just - for a mini - not convinced that there is ever a situation since the RoI revamp I would want focus instead of crit. And yes I had to ask cappies in groups to give me crit instead of focus - which was either because they were used to do this before RoI or read an old guide for cappies of what to give what class.

    In any case I am leveling a cappy right now so I read up here quite a lot now. Thanks in here now to everyone who keeps guides and stickies up to date.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    lol if you say so Gylve. I totally disagree, but you are entitled to that opinion. I'll never understand why so many of you think 1800 Critical Rating is so much better than 400 ICPR. I just don't understand it. Baffling as hell to me - especially if someone is in need of more ICPR to keep their power up.
    This is what Elrantiri and I were trying to explain to you, yet you don't want to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    I am entitled to my opinion because it is 100% correct. If you don't understand how big a boost nearly 2000 crit is for a class with *at least* a 50% critical multiplier for *all attacks* then you are demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of the game's mechanics.
    I knew champs had a lot of crit multiplier, never knew it was that high....

    **Is now jealous of the crit multiplier**

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Gylve, welcome to my ignore list also. If there is anyone else on this thread who wants to hurl insults about my intelligence or anything else of a personal nature because I think the Tactics: Focus buff is good please let me know now so I can add you also. Save me the trouble of having to read your insults in the future ^^
    Anyone that has to ignore 3 people in less than a day simply because they don't agree with you needs to take a good look n the mirror.

    Quote Originally Posted by monk_tbd View Post
    If i get low on power and suddenly the captain puts focus on me then I am not going to be very happy as I have to mash more buttons then I already do to reach the same healing output.
    I imagine all of the DPSers and the RK healers also fall into this category.

    If I had that happen to me in a raid, someone would be getting yelled at very quickly.
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  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    I knew champs had a lot of crit multiplier, never knew it was that high....

    **Is now jealous of the crit multiplier**
    Yeah their Crit multiplier goes fairly high:
    Standard crit is +50% damage
    +50% multiplier from main hand legacy
    +~35% multiplier from capped critical chance
    +16% multiplier from Malledhrim golden boots
    +25% multiplier to certain skills (single target skills/Strike skills) from Red class trait
    +25% multiplier to Wild attack from 3-set trait bonus in Red line
    +40% multiplier to 2nd hit from Savage Strike + 2nd and 3rd hit on Brutal Strikes from 2-set bonus in Red line

    Lets just agree they benefit a good bit from critical strikes yes? :P
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Apr 12 2013 at 03:06 PM.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Lets just agree they benefit a good bit from critical strikes yes? :P
    Nah, we should TOTALLY give them Focus when they run out of power cause it's like imperative that they have a full blue bar at all times dude!

    Like TOTALLY!

    </sarcasm>
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  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I don't know Armitas. It's not a rock, it's just a handy little buff that gives 400 ICPR, which is a respectable amount and our best power-related tactical buff. I'm beginning to believe you really do think ICPR is the evil incarnate, especially now since you think it's "creepy" too. I thought you were being sarcastic earlier, but I am starting to re-evaluate
    Of course it is a captains best power related tactical buff, it is the only power related buff out of the three. The reason that most people think that it is not useful is two fold. First, if the person is not already capped for crit then more crit will almost always produce more healing/damage than 400 power per minute. Second, given the power restore capabilities of captains if the person in question is running out of power then they are still likely to run out of power even with the extra buff.

    I personally never hand out focus unless it is requested. And in the last 6 months that has happened once.
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  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    lol if you say so Gylve. I totally disagree, but you are entitled to that opinion. I'll never understand why so many of you think 1800 Critical Rating is so much better than 400 ICPR. I just don't understand it. Baffling as hell to me - especially if someone is in need of more ICPR to keep their power up.
    I think the reason crit buff is so much better is there are SOOOO MANY different ways to recover power that are MUCH MUCH better than focus buff. We have two classes that can keep entire fellowships up on full bars: captains and lms. We have 1 or more power return skills for every single class. We have power pots. We can just stop attacking for a while to garner more power.


    But there's very few ways to singularly gain about 2k crit.

    Therefore 2k crit is >>>>>>> than....60 power per second, due to simple supply and demand.

    And I think in a world where there are robot minis not focusing on their power restore skills, robot lms not passing power, robot captains not traiting now for wrath, robot champs not hitting second wind, people completely ignoring fate, and everyone having power problems, we'd all be screaming "FOCUS BUFF! FOCUS BUFF!".

    But at this time, count me in the long list of names that have no clue what situation any captain would be in to have to resort to focus buff.
    Last edited by mrfigglesworth; Apr 12 2013 at 04:07 PM.

  25. #150
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    At this point, I'm just starting to feel pity for Jeremi's kin on Nim..... I feel for that raid group......
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    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 
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