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  1. #1

    Determination ICMR legacy

    Warden used to be my main before ROI's release, but haven't really played her since about a month after its release (actually quit my subscription after they broke the class and said they weren't fixing it for MONTHS). I'd like to get back to playing her, so that means I'm behind the times in legacies (among many other things) now. During ROI, ICMR was so pathetic that I didn't spec it on any toon and was just fine. However, inspecting wardens since U10, I see most have the determination ICMR legacy. Is it really worth it now or is it just filling the ICPR legacy slot now that power is OP?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by thore168 View Post
    Warden used to be my main before ROI's release, but haven't really played her since about a month after its release (actually quit my subscription after they broke the class and said they weren't fixing it for MONTHS).
    wardens are not broke, in fact they're OP right now, because both agility and might give them physical migitation.
    Last edited by whatevar; Apr 02 2013 at 07:45 AM.
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  3. #3
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    I don't know how it was during RoI times because I didn't play then, but now the ICMR is quite nice. Determination stance gives ~2300 ICMR, the legacy gives ~650 ICMR, together this gives over ~3.000 ICMR. And that's not even counting the ICMR contribution of Fate (which for wardens would be between 100 and 200 most likely).

    Over the course of a 4m boss fight that is 12.000 hp healed just by ICMR. For free! That is huge.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatevar View Post
    wardens are not broke, in fact they're OP right now, because both agility and might give them physical migitation.
    Only Might gives Physical Mitigation, they both currently contribute to Physical Mastery however which will change with U11,

    I slot the ICMR boost as it is quite a nice one to have on the javelin, I would still choose it 4th after Fist Gambit Evade/Duration and Shield Gambit Line Healing!
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatevar View Post
    wardens are not broke, in fact they're OP right now, because both agility and might give them physical migitation.
    They were broken after RoI due to the mitigation changes that were made with that expansion. OP is talking about something over a year and a half ago. Of course they're not broken anymore, even Turbine can fix things in that timeframe.

    Also, I assume you meant mastery, not mitigation. If you don't: might and agility both contribute to mastery, not mitigation.
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  6. #6
    Thanks to those that managed to stay on topic.

    Hendos:
    Yeah, I was looking over the other threads talking about legacies and they routinely mention: evade, duration, and heal.

    Back to topic:
    I'm just trying to figure out if there's another major or a minor that's worth more than the determination ICMR legacy. My problem with ICMR, as it always has been, is that yes the +morale over time is nice, however, if you're tanking a raid you have a healer healing you every few seconds (ICMR won't really change that). Being that you're likely being overhealed, where does the benefit of ~ 600 ICMR really show up?
    Last edited by thore168; Apr 02 2013 at 10:52 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by thore168 View Post
    Thanks to those that managed to stay on topic.

    Being that you're likely being overhealed, where does the benefit of ~ 600 ICMR really show up?
    It doesn't. Even a t1 HoT heals you for 10x that amount over the course of a minute, so long as you can spare the builders for at least the t1 HoT once every 30s.
    Get buff duration, conviction & shield line healing, and fist gambit evade rating instead. Doing so gives you the little extra you need to allow yourself to be main healer for pretty much every non-raid instance except water wing Fornost, and perhaps SS/LT..
    Last edited by rannion; Apr 02 2013 at 11:39 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    Get buff duration, conviction & shield line healing, and fist gambit evade rating instead. Doing so gives you the little extra you need to allow yourself to be main healer for pretty much every non-raid instance except water wing Fornost, and perhaps SS/LT..
    this. Defiant Challenge cdr should be a nobrainer (it's a minor one).
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheilyn View Post
    this. Defiant Challenge cdr should be a nobrainer (it's a minor one).
    Thats assuming you trait legendary skill that you can only use every 3 min 30 seconds for 5 sec of forced attack + 30s of 40$ Tact/Phys mitigation. (down to 2 min 30 sec with max legacy).

    To compete with:
    Grand Master Weapon Training (every hit) - (+5% Melee Damage, inherent bleed damage from Spears happens more often, inherent attack speed debuff from Clubs happens more often, +1% inherent Sword to hit bonus modifier, damage from intrinsic spear bleeds is greatly increased(~double).)

    Javelin of Deadly Force- (45s cooldown) - 10 target spear throw based on weapon type and dps spec

    And one of the following, (depending on how traited):

    Way of the Spear (every hit)- +5% Melee Damage,+20% to Trigger Gambit Builder Bonuses, +10% Morale-tap Damage, Adds 2 Pulses to all Warden Damage over time Effects

    or

    Way of the Shield (every heal)- +2 Pulse Heal Over Time Skills, +10% to Warden Heal over time effects, +30% Heal bonus for Conviction

    Sorry, with only three legendary slots, no brainer for me to leave that trait (and its legacies) in the trash bin still.
    Last edited by Darlgon; Apr 02 2013 at 07:04 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Thats assuming you trait legendary skill that you can only use every 3 min 30 seconds for 5 sec of forced attack + 30s of 40% Tact/Phys mitigation. (down to 2 min 30 sec with max legacy).

    To compete with:
    Grand Master Weapon Training (every hit) - (+5% Melee Damage, inherent bleed damage from Spears happens more often, inherent attack speed debuff from Clubs happens more often, +1% inherent Sword to hit bonus modifier, damage from intrinsic spear bleeds is greatly increased(~double).)

    Javelin of Deadly Force- (45s cooldown) - 10 target spear throw based on weapon type and dps spec

    Sorry, with only three legendary slots, no brainer for me to leave that trait (and its legacies) in the trash bin still.
    ... are you serious? Respectfully, I suggest that you re-enable your brain, and reconsider the value of JodF against a 30s damage immunity skill on a 2.5m cd, especially given that we've gotten a few ranged threat gambits that are much easier to aim than JodF.

  11. #11
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    Greetings All,

    Ok, I am falling a little off-topic here, but does anybody use capped determination trait in their regular set-up? Especially if they are planning on tanking? Since the switch to agility, I have wondered about capping determination and slotting it. I am getting close to level-cap and have been spending a great deal of time grinding out virtues. Currently I am running: Charity, Compassion, Fidelity, Loyalty and Innocence. I have been trying to stack vit, mits, and resistance. I was just curious if any warden has capped and slotted Determination and if it made a difference to their game play. Thanks for any information or advice!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua79 View Post
    Greetings All,

    Ok, I am falling a little off-topic here, but does anybody use capped determination trait in their regular set-up? Especially if they are planning on tanking? Since the switch to agility, I have wondered about capping determination and slotting it. I am getting close to level-cap and have been spending a great deal of time grinding out virtues. Currently I am running: Charity, Compassion, Fidelity, Loyalty and Innocence. I have been trying to stack vit, mits, and resistance. I was just curious if any warden has capped and slotted Determination and if it made a difference to their game play. Thanks for any information or advice!
    I would not regard the agility gain from Determination being worth slotting over the top of the gains from other virtues. Agility is easily found all over the place for the Warden but building up raw Resistances and Mitigation (particulaly physical with the main stat switch) is not as easy.

    Only my view though if it works for you then go for it
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    ... are you serious? Respectfully, I suggest that you re-enable your brain, and reconsider the value of JodF against a 30s damage immunity skill on a 2.5m cd, especially given that we've gotten a few ranged threat gambits that are much easier to aim than JodF.
    Please do the same. Its no longer damage immunity. It is only a 40% decrease in incoming damage for 30 secs, with a 10m range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorebook View Post

    Defiant Challenge
    Warden Training
    A scathing rebuke forces all nearby monsters to attack the Warden for a short time. These careless attacks allow the Warden to damage all attacking monsters after each blow.
    +40% Physical Mitigation
    Duration: 30s
    +40% Tactical Mitigation
    Duration: 30s
    Cost: Power
    Max Targets: 10
    Radius: 10m
    Requires: Defiant Challenge Trait Equipped
    Base Cooldown: 3m 30s
    (Interesting, they forgot to change the description. It also no longer reflects damage.)

    And JoDF is a first hit PULL threat mechanic for up to 10 mobs, max range, plus damage every 45 seconds.
    Last edited by Darlgon; Apr 03 2013 at 01:47 PM.

  14. #14
    I haven always put a 7th legacy on my weapons, which I use for ICMR/Det., I would not use it with only 6 legacies on the javelin. It is nice to have, and not more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Please do the same. Its no longer damage immunity. It is only a 40% decrease in incoming damage for 30 secs.

    And JoDF is a first hit PULL threat mechanic for up to 10 mobs, plus damage every 45 seconds.
    50% + 40% (additive!) means 90% damage reduction, which is basically invincible. 30 sec. every 2.30, 1/5th of the time if used consecutively. that IS amazing. while tanking, the damage of JoDF is worth nothing, and with battle prep and our 2 new ranged threat skills (without damage, amazing if you stun-pull or sth.) there is absolutely no need for this skill. I have not even thought about slotting it for tanking, and always decided against it while going DD.
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  15. #15
    I agree with bacho.
    I used to run into battle while throw JoDF for mob pull. But now that they have nerfed our jav skills and make us to stand still while throwing jav, it really restrict our tanking ability rather than helping it.
    The new 2 AOE range threat skills are great and give me great flexibility while tanking. I have no more use of JoDF. I am now slotting DC, Warden GMW training, and a blue or yellow capstone depending on whether I'm tanking a raid or a 3/6man.

    As for ICMR legacy, I love this and has been slotting it since forever. I figure if I get stunned (which shouldn't happen that often if you have an LM that knows what they are doing), or link dead (this, does happen quite a few times on my server), I'll at least have the ICMR.

    Here's a screenshot of my build. It's not completed mind you, I'm still getting upgrades, but it works for me so far.

    Fun story, I was in a 6man, get LD, came back after 2min, and found myself still have aggro, half bar of health, and none of my fellowship are dead. The only heal I had was my leech, Conviction, ICMR, and a LM. There were no other healers in group.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Please do the same. Its no longer damage immunity. It is only a 40% decrease in incoming damage for 30 secs, with a 10m range.

    http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Skillefiant_Challenge



    (Interesting, they forgot to change the description. It also no longer reflects damage.)

    And JoDF is a first hit PULL threat mechanic for up to 10 mobs, max range, plus damage every 45 seconds.
    No clue what you're on about... - wait, do you even play warden? :S



    Trating JODF instead of DC is utter nonsense, it bumps our mits up to 90% for thirty seconds every 2.5 minutes with the legacy.

    For all I care they can remove the forced taunt and just give that raw skill, nothing more is needed.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iznogoot View Post
    I used to run into battle while throw JoDF for mob pull. But now that they have nerfed our jav skills and make us to stand still while throwing jav, it really restrict our tanking ability rather than helping it.
    The new 2 AOE range threat skills are great and give me great flexibility while tanking. I have no more use of JoDF. I am now slotting DC, Warden GMW training, and a blue or yellow capstone depending on whether I'm tanking a raid or a 3/6man.
    Grtz, you guys talked me into taking another look at Disco Challenge. I am now using the same config as Iznogoot. We will see if its worth it.

  18. #18
    Its better than just puting vit or agi in there. Imo its also more usefull than fist gambit buff duration. As unless im missing something the only gambits that use fist with buffs are 3232 323...both for me at least rarely fall into a tanking rotation. I also dont like the shield buff duration as it only buffs the blocking part of buffs not the entire gambit effect and all those legacy points for another 10 seconds of a block buff that should be refreshed anyway is not worth all the legacy points.
    Change your point of view and change the way you perceive everything.

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