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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Dan View Post
    Just curious if anyone has tried this strategy:

    1 tank on each Troll

    1 Ranged/Tac DPS on each Troll

    1 Melee DPS on each Troll

    2 Healers

    4 People on Adds (preferably 2 Capts + 2 anything else)

    This takes advantage of the incoming damage debuff each troll puts up so both groups should proceed at the same rate.

    Additionally, with 4 on adds, they should be burned down fairly quickly which takes advantage of cappie RC spam which should help cover for Inferno and just help with general healing
    I see what you're saying but you will take more dmg from distributed if you don't pile up on the melee boss. You'll also take longer, a lot longer, by having 1 of the 2 ranged classes on the melee boss and vise versa for the ranged boss. Although I bet this strat works well for pugs or groups where people have a hard time keeping up with the changes during the fight.
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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    **Note** If you leave the tank by himself on the ranged troll the Olog-hai will never perform the distributed attack but if you leave even 1 person by the tank he will perform it risking killing both the tank and most assuredly kill the extra player.
    We see the ranged troll issuing distributed even when the ranged troll and associated tank are 18m or more from everyone else. I think we might be on to something, though. Hopefully this weekend we'll have it figured out.

    *EDIT: We also see both trolls with the same buff a lot. We're not sure if this is a bug or if there is a mechanic we're still missing.
    Last edited by clappi; Apr 10 2013 at 08:18 PM.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    Did you even watch the video? What you described is exactly what we did except a captain helped the burg VS the hunter for troll DPS because the burg is busy doing jobs the hunter is not. So 2 main add DPS and 1 captain.

    I think the biggest thing that is hitting most groups is the distribute. Eliminate 50% of all distribute damage taken in the fight by moving which the melee troll mark as shown. Have hunters stand back so DPS is not hindered. As far as healing goes I'm sure our healers will tell you they much preferred taking a few steps than healing people being hit by back-back distribute.
    Sorry about that, it was a bit hard to see the reinforcements group in your video. Yeah good work on that strat though. Very efficient and easy to follow. Do you think 4 on reinforcements is overkill or will that hurt the distributed?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennirich View Post
    I see what you're saying but you will take more dmg from distributed if you don't pile up on the melee boss. You'll also take longer, a lot longer, by having 1 of the 2 ranged classes on the melee boss and vise versa for the ranged boss. Although I bet this strat works well for pugs or groups where people have a hard time keeping up with the changes during the fight.
    The time factor was the one thing I was thinking about. However, the ability to change targets seems to elude some people :P
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  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    So, we tried this night doing T2C of BfE.

    Reinforcements are really hard on our champ'. Could you tell how and what the champ did in terms of trait/gear set up ?


    As for guardian, you say that they undertook the 200% buff the hole fight. We didn't have a burg (but two champs). Does the burg debuff enough each troll, allowing this strategy (to sum up, is a burg mandatory here ^^).

    Just to post here a screen and a hit I took back there :



    [04/14 10:33:34 PM] Laugshat scored a devastating hit with Arc on Gardhik for 25,348 Common damage to Morale.

    Is it avoidable ? Thanks a lot

  5. #55
    Burg is needed (for our method anyways). He puts trait-ed disable on BOTH trolls himself. The champ was near cap mit 67% something, an early post in this thread shows what he was wearing. Burg uses trick range to bounce between trolls. Disable should also help with distribute depending on where you have fire-lore when a distribute goes off.

    As for the 1 shot that is the result of one person in the raid not following closely enough and right after they move away the distribute goes off hitting just the tank. It's imperative if you are moving from troll to troll nobody is lagging behind - we did encounter the same problem the first couple runs. Also keep in mind with disable should that 1/100 chance of 1 shot hit occur you won't get 1 shot, more like 90% of health and time to save yourself.

    Who is supporting your champ for DPS? If adds aren't dying fast enough that can be the result of the champ dying as well.

    Another thing of note about disable and all debuffs. Attack duration is WIN. Make sure you have full use off attack duration debuffs such as sign of power command and disable ob both trolls 100% of the fight. Even the RK writ of cold if you have one could chuck it on. This minimizes damage beyond noticeably.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Apr 14 2013 at 07:06 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Jun 2011
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    We tried again with 4 banners (cata, inferno, 1% dps difference and reinforcements).

    Our main goal was to kill adds quickly enough to welcome the next one. I must say we failed after many tries.

    Our champ was doing 2k dps, with a hunter, little help from a cappy and LM.

    mathematically, to kill the three adds in 30 seconds, you should have 7.3 k of DPS.

    We tried with a second champ instead of the hunter to no avail. I don't know, maybe we have not enough skill to beat this one. As of now, I don't know what to try sadly.

  7. #57
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardhik View Post
    We tried again with 4 banners (cata, inferno, 1% dps difference and reinforcements).

    Our main goal was to kill adds quickly enough to welcome the next one. I must say we failed after many tries.

    Our champ was doing 2k dps, with a hunter, little help from a cappy and LM.

    mathematically, to kill the three adds in 30 seconds, you should have 7.3 k of DPS.

    We tried with a second champ instead of the hunter to no avail. I don't know, maybe we have not enough skill to beat this one. As of now, I don't know what to try sadly.
    Maybe try Honor Guard instead of reinforcements - you'll only have to kill the initial adds, although you'll have to keep your DPS in check the rest of the way on the trolls.

  8. #58
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    We have no issues with honor guard. We farmed this instance in T1 with honors guards and catapult.

    We just train the challenge in T2 (and especially killing adds with the reinforcements banners).

    Sorry to not have been precise engouh

  9. #59
    Killing reinforcements is very demanding DPS especially with limited 2 people. I'll ask what our champ was doing but 2k seems very low, unless your counting all the time built up to preparing for reinforcements on CA. There will usually be an old warrior left over from the last wave and 3 new ones the captain dies, the archer and old warrior die, work on getting the newest warrior as low as possible before new set.

    LM, Captain, 2x champ or 1x champ and 1x hunter should be enough.

    If not I would recommend using the LM rather than hunter on the ranged boss and do a slower controlled burn. Then you have 3 slots for DPS on adds and it's still the same fight.

    Thought as well, if you have a RK traited for fire you can put a few minor dots to help LM while keeping more or less full DPS on reinforcements as well.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Apr 20 2013 at 12:52 PM.
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  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    We were using 2x champs, 2x captains on adds. They were 95% of the time dead before next wave of adds spawned. Just rarely warrior left with 5k morale or so.
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    **Note** If you leave the tank by himself on the ranged troll the Olog-hai will never perform the distributed attack but if you leave even 1 person by the tank he will perform it risking killing both the tank and most assuredly kill the extra player. For this reason it is vital that you move as a single unit and stay together in range of the melee troll.
    So here's what I've learned about Distributed from tanking Vadok. I think the issuance is based on two morale points and a proc-limit-per-time, not shield buffs or when a shield buff swap occurs. The chart below is from one of our... less successful runs and was formulated from data available to the Vadok tank alone; Vadok was tanked away from everyone else, so for the duration of the encounter only the tank was within 12m of Vadok. I don't have much data from Laugshat to compare yet but I'd imagine Distributed works similarly for both bosses.



    From what I can tell it seems to be that Distributed starts when the bosses get to 65% health. The skill seems to have a 20 second cooldown, but they can only issue it three times every two minutes at this point. So the first minute you'll get hit with Distributed 3 times, the following minute no Distributed. Repeat.

    Once you get the bosses to 45% they will simply issue Distributed every 20 seconds. In the chart above I believe this behavior was not observed immediately at 45% due to Vadok still being constrained by prior 2 minute window limit still in effect beginning at 11:17:34. Once that expired at 11:19:34 the next Distributed was issued immediately.

    Hopefully this will clear up things people are seeing in their runs with regards to Distributed.

    *EDIT: Figured I'd attempt to explain why Distributed on a lone-tanked troll is not normally noticed... The base damage for the skill seems to have two different levels based on: one player within range, and more than one player in range. From extrapolation it seems the unmitigated damage for the single-player-in-range scenario is roughly 14k. When there is more than one player within range the unmitigated damage ramps to about 10x higher (and this might be skewed by BB/BR since I don't have a good data capture yet for this kind of event). Thus, most folks don't perhaps notice Distributed firing on a solo-tanked troll because the amount of damage taken can be roughly equivalent to a Med or High Melee attack; when the tank gets one-shot from a Distributed hitting for 24k, however, out come the combat logs.

    As per our experience with double-ranged or double-melee buffs we haven't seen those in a while now so I'm wondering if those were indeed bugs. We've run into a lot of buggy behavior with this particular instance (bugged catapults, bugged shields, bugged add spawns, bugged flags, ToO-like lag/fight sync issues between players, bugged boss health indicators, etc) so I'm going to write that one off for now.
    Last edited by clappi; Apr 21 2013 at 07:17 PM.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galborion View Post
    We were using 2x champs, 2x captains on adds. They were 95% of the time dead before next wave of adds spawned. Just rarely warrior left with 5k morale or so.
    We tried again this night. 2 champs and one hunter were needed to kill them, even then, the warrior would stay alive. I'm still impress with your champ and hunter YesMaam. They must put out a lots of dps

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardhik View Post
    We tried again this night. 2 champs and one hunter were needed to kill them, even then, the warrior would stay alive. I'm still impress with your champ and hunter YesMaam. They must put out a lots of dps
    If it's a hunter with me I do about 5k dps, if it's a fire RK i do about 4k dps on reinforcements. I have also soloed the reinforcements in a few runs because we didn't have extra dps class available, got it down to 20% and wiped due to lag. For solo I was doing about 6.5k+ dps and had 2 warriors up almost all the time(archers and captains die so fast) so obviously more heals were required but that was remedied by picking up an extra healer instead of the dps.

    So if a champ + rk/hunter isn't able to kill the reinforcements both of them need to improve.

    PS: I was in full Ardour. My TPS on duo adds is around 1k and solo was about 1.5k.
    Last edited by Shintagh; Apr 22 2013 at 07:32 PM.

  14. #64
    Fire RK? I wish I'd ever seen one to know if they're good or no...
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  15. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
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    261
    We started having the cappies time shield brother on the tank groups for BB/BL when they can. Clearing up chatter in TS to let the tanks and healers communicate has gone a long way to improve stability.

    We found that 2 hunters and a champ or warden is plenty to deal with reinforcements, and I can help slightly with the lm when all my debuffs are on cooldown, and throw a stun or two on a warrior or archer.

    We are having trouble with the ranged troll doing 4 arc attacks on the tank in the span of a second. Our tank seems to think this has happened a few times when the troll hits 50%, but if this is just something that can randomly occur without prevention or evasion then it is another achilles heel of randomness destroying an otherwise carefully executed strategy.
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  16. #66
    Pretty solid german video of a T2C clear, if you're interested:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0YQLg-oOoI

    I liked it a lot, some pro's in there, obviously.
    Minis did a great job, conversation is mimimized to the necessary.
    Did it help you?
    Last edited by Slevin76; May 05 2013 at 12:10 AM.

  17. #67
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
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    757
    Hi there

    So, we finally found which way was best for us : It's to solo tank both troll when the honnor guard is killed. The other tank will then grab reinforcements. All people save the guard and a champ will be just behind the troll.

    But, there are still big hits that can oneshot our RK and I don't understand why as we are always close to each others. Especially with Rage 2 enable. Thoughts ?

    We down both trolls to 2% and 5%... just bad luck with those hits, so If we could wipe those, this would help a lot you might say

  18. #68
    When everyone is packed close to both trolls, you get hit by both distributed attacks (simultaneously). When the trolls have the rage buff, it hits even harder.

    There is no magic workaround : you can ask your squishee RK to build with more mitigations and/or moral, or you can ask him to stand more than 12m away from the trolls, bat that means more pressure on the rest.


    Combined with the incoming damage reduction that the trolls get when close to each other, this means that the fight will take longer and can be tricky. If you can gather a third tank (since you have one on the reinforcements), I would advise to separate them. It takes only little coordination to move the raid when the trolls switch shields, and is much less risky.
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